Going Paleo

lemurcat12

From a paleo site "Like grains and pseudograins, legumes contain phytic acid. Phytic acid binds to nutrients in the food, preventing you from absorbing them. It doesn’t steal any nutrients that are already in your body, but it does make that bowl of lentils a lot less nutrient-dense than the Nutrition Facts panel would have you believe. "

Who knew food was stealing nutrients from other food? It turns out food really does have a dark side.

Dastardly lentils! I always knew they were up to no good.

LoupGarouTFTs

Why is organic "healthier"?

Because they don't use chemicals such as pesticides.

Can you provide science that proves the pesticides make it unhealthy?

Not technical science, but a food documentary that I had watched at one point (not sure which it was, possibly forks over knifes?) was very informative about this information. They had said the reason organic was "healthier" was because they use pesticides in non-organic to kill the insects. The reason this needs to be done is because the plants are too weak to thrive on their own due to mineral depletion in the soil, this implies that there is less mineral depletion in the soil used when growing organic foods.

I am not saying that this is true or that I believe it, I have not done a whole lot of research on the topic either. Personally, organic food is way too expensive to fit in my budget so I rarely buy it. I'm sure other research is probably available to prove/disprove this.

Forks Over Knives is largely comprised of discredited propaganda. In addition, organic farmers use pesticides, too. They just use different pesticides than non-organic farmers.

dbmata

Please, I've eaten grass-fed beef from free-range cows that I used to have to shoo out of a UKC show site three times a year. It's tough as boot leather. It tastes pretty much the same as ordinary beef. I've also raised my own chickens. The eggs taste about the same. The yolks are a different color, probably because the chickens get more bugs in their diet and are out in the sunshine.

Please. Go to a better show.

I get my beef from 4H kids here, and it's ridiculously good compared to the crap I can get from the local boutique butchers for $18 a pound.

Non industrial eggs actually have flavor, where the ones you get at Safeway for $1.99 are as insipid as they are pale. Bro, do you even flavor? Geebus.

dbmata

A good rule of thumb is to never get your food science from a documentary. All of the ones I have seen/heard about are driven by pseudo-science and feature interviews with known quacks.

unfortunately, the research we have supporting that pesticide drenched food is safe is from industrial ag coffers, which makes it pseudo-science from known *kitten*.

It's truly a tomato, tomahto situation.

I guess you can say, are you a gambler? Which side do you want to bet on being right? Which side do you want to bet might be a quicker ride to cancer?

I say neither, let's just all eat humans.

establishingaplace

A good rule of thumb is to never get your food science from a documentary. All of the ones I have seen/heard about are driven by pseudo-science and feature interviews with known quacks.

unfortunately, the research we have supporting that pesticide drenched food is safe is from industrial ag coffers, which makes it pseudo-science from known *kitten*.

It's truly a tomato, tomahto situation.

I guess you can say, are you a gambler? Which side do you want to bet on being right? Which side do you want to bet might be a quicker ride to cancer?

I say neither, let's just all eat humans.

The vast majority of produce, organic and conventional, is drenched in pesticide, organic more so. So my guess is both sides are a quick ride to cancer.

LoupGarouTFTs

Please, I've eaten grass-fed beef from free-range cows that I used to have to shoo out of a UKC show site three times a year. It's tough as boot leather. It tastes pretty much the same as ordinary beef. I've also raised my own chickens. The eggs taste about the same. The yolks are a different color, probably because the chickens get more bugs in their diet and are out in the sunshine.

Please. Go to a better show.

I get my beef from 4H kids here, and it's ridiculously good compared to the crap I can get from the local boutique butchers for $18 a pound.

Non industrial eggs actually have flavor, where the ones you get at Safeway for $1.99 are as insipid as they are pale. Bro, do you even flavor? Geebus.

I was part of the show-giving club and it was a very popular site until we stopped having shows a couple of years ago. Eggs are pretty much eggs. You just think they taste different because they are raised "better." I do think that many home-raised veggies taste much better, though, because they are picked when they are actually ripe.

KerryITD

Why is organic "healthier"?

Because they don't use chemicals such as pesticides.

Organic farming uses more pesticide than conventional.

Organic pesticide is derived from natural sources, but that doesn't mean it is better for you. You also need more of it, because it is less effective than synthetic pesticide.

Most organic pesticides don't linger in the environment (or on your food) as long as synthetic ones do. They tend to break down more quickly and therefor don't require as much washing. I just like the taste or organic food better--it's usually less bitter. Ever try an organic banana or carrot? YUM.

lemurcat12

I know that yoghurt is dairy, but from what I read the reason dairy is out is because many people do not digest lactose or dairy protein (allergy). I cannot drink milk but I do not have problem with yoghurt (may because the Live bacteria in yoghurt have lactase and that helps me). Anyway, from what I read dairy is not a complete no... as Paleo diet accepts butter (also dairy).

I thought dairy was supposed to be out because paleo people didn't milk cows. But I get there's no actual consistency.

I don't see why people keep citing Mark Sisson as some paleo rules maker, as he doesn't even really claim to be paleo, does he?

No one is citing him as a paleo rule maker. He is however the primal rule maker (as the primal diet is his concept).

I think that's where you and others are getting confused.

I'm not confused. For example, I know that Mark Sisson does not say just go ahead and eat 20% non paleo stuff. He says of course you should aim at 100%, but life might intervene. That's quite a bit different than how the 80/20 seems to be followed here.

Moreover, I was not at all referring to Primal (which this thread isn't even about), but to posts like the following:

Paleo can be low carb but allows for rice, sweet potatoes, and a variety of higher carb fruits and vegetables.
The last time I looked on the daily apple website, I think I read that white potatoes are now ok.

Many people following Paleo also adhere to the 80/20 guideline so you could include all sorts of grains and high sugar/carb foods into the 20%.

tennisdude2004

Yes but that post is referencing daily apple as the site advocating potatoes in moderation.

And I would assume the source of the 80/20.

TheOtherSideOfFood

Okay, so I've been researching the Paleo diet for a few days now and I can't help but notice the huge amount of stress they put on the words "GRASS FED BEEF" and "FREE RANGE EGGS". I understand that organic foods are best for you, but I feel like I have no access to organic foods where I live.

The idea is to get away from processed foods, so surely if I decided to go Paleo (organic or not), it will be better for me anyway, right?

Your absolutely on the right track. Even though Cage Free and Grass Feed are more paleo than what you have access to you, if your improving the quality of the food your eating your on the right path

BABY STEPS

It amuzes me up how many people advertise themselves as going Paleo but have never been on any sort of health plan. Theres so many changes involved and most burn out in a week.

Chris

lemurcat12

Yes but that post is referencing daily apple as the site advocating potatoes in moderation.

The post said nothing about potatoes in moderation, in fact. It is asserting that potatoes are okay now for paleo because Mark Sisson (or his site) said so. Thus, my comment that Sisson does not define (or claim to define) paleo, whatever his current view on potatoes.

Also, it's silly to suggest that Sisson says it's cool to just eat 20% grains, since 80/20. I mean, personally I'm not sure why it should matter to anyone what Sisson says is okay to eat, but since he is being cited as an authority here, that's not actually what he says.

In fact I agree with the claim that paleo need not be low carb, although it would be somewhat challenging not to eat somewhat reduced carbs (which is probably related to why it works for lots of people).

tennisdude2004

Yes but Mark Sissons isn't asserting it's okay for paleo - he's asserting it's okay for primal.

lemurcat12

Yes but Mark Sissons isn't asserting it's okay for paleo - he's asserting it's okay for primal.

So we agree that the post I quoted was wrong. Like I said, it's weird to hold Sisson up as the Pope of Paleo.

tennisdude2004

Yes but Mark Sissons isn't asserting it's okay for paleo - he's asserting it's okay for primal.

So we agree that the post I quoted was wrong. Like I said, it's weird to hold Sisson up as the Pope of Paleo.

Okay maybe I misunderstood what you were saying - if so 'my bad'.

tedrickp

Ah yes the ever changing Paleo diet/lifestyle.

Is that a bad thing? I would hope that someone's views would evolve as their understanding increases. To my mind, it would be much worse if he just refused to consider amending his ideas in the face of convincing opposing evidence.

Well if paleo/primal were indeed based on actual empirical evidence, then you might have a point...

Akimajuktuq

Reading a lot of these comments I think most people only have an understanding of primal based on what they have read from other MFP members.

Agreed. It's quite ridiculous. The misconceptions, the ridicule; it's just unacceptable.

OP: find the Primal/Paleo Support group and ask your questions there.

Mr_Knight

Yes but Mark Sissons isn't asserting it's okay for paleo - he's asserting it's okay for primal.

Primal is a marketing term - it has no technical or coherent foundation or definition.

Fundamentally, it's no different than "South Beach".

Mr_Knight

... as Paleo diet accepts butter (also dairy).

Butter is a processed food and quite modern - it is not "paleo" by any meaningful definition

If cows aren't running from predators, they aren't being "free-ranged", they're just living in a bigger cage.

tennisdude2004

Yes but Mark Sissons isn't asserting it's okay for paleo - he's asserting it's okay for primal.

Primal is a marketing term - it has no technical or coherent foundation or definition.

Fundamentally, it's no different than "South Beach".

Of course it's a marketing term!!! And it's very much based on MS personal experiences. I take it you have not dug that deep into based on your comments!

saila718

Hi there

Primal is all about reducing insulin spikes. Carbs lead to sugar spikes which elevate insulin. Legumes have a lot of carbs. They are not the worst kind of carbs to eat, but at the end of the day, when you add your daily carb intake, carbs are carbs.