Chivalry is dead?

QuiznatoddBidness

people want what they want. some people perform them (e.g., traditional acts of chivalry), some don't; some like receiving them, others don't.

chivalry is not dead. rules are dead.

fishgutzy

Radical Feminists and the far left are trying desperately to kill Chivalry. On of the many ways they are doing this is by pushing the very dangerous notion that women should be serving in direct combat units.
If they actually believed men and women are the exactly the same, they would not advocate for, and support, different physical fitness standards for women i law enforcement, fire departments, and the military.
The majority of men (myself included) can't pass the FBI fitness standards to become an agent. Less than 1% of women would pass if they had to pass the same standard.
Chivalry is not about believing a woman is too weak to open a door. It is about respect. A society that values women, values chivalry too. No society that values women puts them in combat.
By the way,, the hoopla over the women that supposedly passed combat school ignored the fact that they passed under a lower standard than the men. It was all politics.
Men and women are different in was meant to compliment each other. No amount of wishful thinking and brainwashing will ever change that.
Fun fact from the Law Enforcement statistics, Female police officers are over represented in officer involved shootings. SIze matters.

949BeachMom

When at the store I always look behind me a few times before I get rung up just to make sure some guy with a bottle of wine isnt stuck behind me n my husband while we are restocking food n what not. Lol its real annoying having to be behind a rude person who wont look to see if some one has way less items than them. Can you imagine getting off at the store real quick n being held uo by a rude person.

Im a so cal girl but luckily for me I lived in georgia n alabama for 3 years. Thats where I learned manners. Def not at home. What a shame . But I have a son. Hes learning how to be civilized. Lol My husband opens my door for me everytime we go somewhere. If we are bbq ing ill offer a little something something to an individual. Haha nothing suvks more than good smelling food on the grill n u cant even get a taste

darrensurrey

Me. Next question?

keef1972

Nope, but some young ladies drop their panties a little too fast! ( but I am not judging)
Most guys I know, end up with a girl who don't give in so easy........

SunofaBeach14

LOL. I knew this would turn into some huge deal.

It is not sexist for a guy to treat me like a lady because I am ....wait for it....a lady ...

(Ok, so maybe a lady with a sailor's mouth who can burp really loudly, but whatever.)

(And by a "treat me like a lady" I mean be a little more polite to me than if I was some dude.....don't scratch your balls in front of me and I won't burp really loudly in front of you).

ETA---my husband gets the burps. Sorry, honey.

My college Gender Studies classes consistently held that treating you differently because of your gender is the very essence of sexism. Could you clarify why treating different sexes differently is not, in fact, sexism?

Yes, yes. Men and women are exactly the same, and should always be treated, and expected to perform, exactly the same. No biological differences at all, it's society man, society. No need to study actual people, instead we'll create an ideology and make the world fit it. Even when it doesn't.

You could treat people based on their needs rather than making assumptions about them based on gender.

So, he should take a survey before he opens the door for you?

You clearly live in the real world. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure she's printing survey forms.

Or he could just hold the door open for anyone of any gender coming in behind him and open the door for anyone of any gender who looks like they might need a hand - eg a person in a wheelchair or with their hands full or with a pram etc.

IME this works pretty well in the real world

Treating people based on their needs comes down to opening doors.

RllyGudTweetr

LOL. I knew this would turn into some huge deal.

It is not sexist for a guy to treat me like a lady because I am ....wait for it....a lady ...

(Ok, so maybe a lady with a sailor's mouth who can burp really loudly, but whatever.)

(And by a "treat me like a lady" I mean be a little more polite to me than if I was some dude.....don't scratch your balls in front of me and I won't burp really loudly in front of you).

ETA---my husband gets the burps. Sorry, honey.

My college Gender Studies classes consistently held that treating you differently because of your gender is the very essence of sexism. Could you clarify why treating different sexes differently is not, in fact, sexism?

Well perhaps it is sexism to a degree if by that collegiate black and white definition. So then, I suppose in my personal opinion a small degree of sexism isn't a horrible thing. I do not have the same relationships with men as I do with other women. I just don't. It's not because I view one gender as inferior, but we are to some degree different. For real. We all are worthy humans with feelings, but just as our bodies are different, so are our minds. So if a man, out of "chivalry" treats me with a little more of a gentleness than he would a guy friend, I would not be at all offended by that.

The alternative is that on a bad/angry/frustrated day (we all have them) a man who is unchivalrous would theoretically engage with a woman in the same way he would another man. And call me crazy, but I think the world is a more pleasant place when men don't behave agressively toward women. (You know, unless we want them to.)

So, it's okay if I treat Pat differently than Chris because one of them is - or identifies as - female? Is it okay if I treat Pat differently than Chris because one of them is of Pacific Islander descent? If not, what's the distinction, and what inequalities are, in your opinion, acceptable?

What about real cultural differences?

If I offer you vodka, it's probably because I just don't want to drink alone.

If my Russian husband offers you vodka, refusing is a gauche rejection of hospitality and friendship.

The same "no thanks" means something very different depending on your audience.

This goes back to the earlier point I made - along with some others - that a guy holding the door open for a gal he doesn't know has no idea whether doing so is expected, appreciated, or offensive to the gal; what one of them would call 'chivalrous' another would call 'chauvinist.'

greengoddess0123

I'm all for manners and helping the weak. But isn't it condescending to put half the human race into the "weak" category, just because of their sex?

SunofaBeach14

I'm all for manners and helping the weak. But isn't it condescending to put half the human race into the "weak" category, just because of their sex?

who are these weak people of whom you speak and aren't you being a bit patronizing by helping them?

nickylee76

I may get som flack for saying this as a woman but I just had this conversation with a friend of mine yesterday. Her kids are mostly grown ( in their) 20's. My son is 8 and my daughter nearly 10. We were talking about puberty starting and soon having "the talk". I felt she gave me the best advice ever when she said don't forget to teach Chris the important parts about dating a girl. That when he takes her out, that should be viewed as a gift from her parents. They are allowing him to take out what they hold dearest to them. He should respect that and treat her as precious as they view her and she is his ultimate responsibility and he should treat her with the utmost respect. This includes holding doors and all things mentioned in this thread. Why is it so wrong for a woman to be treated with respect? Hopefully then if he respects her and holds her high he won't be trying so hard to get in her pants. Too many young girls now don't realize how they should be treated and give everything up so easily.

My kids also are taught manners because it's respectful, both of them boy and girl help out others.

SunofaBeach14

I may get som flack for saying this as a woman but I just had this conversation with a friend of mine yesterday. Her kids are mostly grown ( in their) 20's. My son is 8 and my daughter nearly 10. We were talking about puberty starting and soon having "the talk". I felt she gave me the best advice ever when she said don't forget to teach Chris the important parts about dating a girl. That when he takes her out, that should be viewed as a gift from her parents. They are allowing him to take out what they hold dearest to them. He should respect that and treat her as precious as they view her and she is his ultimate responsibility and he should treat her with the utmost respect. This includes holding doors and all things mentioned in this thread. Why is it so wrong for a woman to be treated with respect? Hopefully then if he respects her and holds her high he won't be trying so hard to get in her pants. Too many young girls now don't realize how they should be treated and give everything up so easily.

My kids also are taught manners because it's respectful, both of them boy and girl help out others.

I think there is a balance to be found in all of this, somewhere between the extremes of "we're all exactly the same" and "women are weak" and it's not going to be the same for all people. I'm particularly attracted to my wife because she is intelligent, strong (both in will and increasingly physically), and quite capable of being independent (we've had to live in different cities and even countries on occasion through some of the hardest times of our lives and her determination and fight through chemo was awe inspiring), but she's also very feminine and when she bats her eyelashes my heart melts. Yea, I know it's playful and that's the point, and yea, I know she can kill her own spiders (shhh, just don't tell her I know). She worked professionally for several years before coming home to concentrate on raising our girls and built a fierce reputation in the process. Our relationship works for us but I don't pretend that it's one size fits all. And, I certainly don't pretend to know the "right" way or even the "best" way, just that I adore my wife and love what we have. I hope our girls can find relationships that bring them this much happiness, and yes, I'll be there when the girls are older and dating to put the fear of god in the boys and to help ensure that our daughters are treated with respect. It takes teaching them to love and respect themselves, and being over-protective doesn't help, but again there's a balance to be found.

nickylee76

I may get som flack for saying this as a woman but I just had this conversation with a friend of mine yesterday. Her kids are mostly grown ( in their) 20's. My son is 8 and my daughter nearly 10. We were talking about puberty starting and soon having "the talk". I felt she gave me the best advice ever when she said don't forget to teach Chris the important parts about dating a girl. That when he takes her out, that should be viewed as a gift from her parents. They are allowing him to take out what they hold dearest to them. He should respect that and treat her as precious as they view her and she is his ultimate responsibility and he should treat her with the utmost respect. This includes holding doors and all things mentioned in this thread. Why is it so wrong for a woman to be treated with respect? Hopefully then if he respects her and holds her high he won't be trying so hard to get in her pants. Too many young girls now don't realize how they should be treated and give everything up so easily.

My kids also are taught manners because it's respectful, both of them boy and girl help out others.

I think there is a balance to be found in all of this, somewhere between the extremes of "we're all exactly the same" and "women are weak" and it's not going to be the same for all people. I'm particularly attracted to my wife because she is intelligent, strong (both in will and increasingly physically), and quite capable of being independent (we've had to live in different cities and even countries on occasion through some of the hardest times of our lives and her determination and fight through chemo was awe inspiring), but she's also very feminine and when she bats her eyelashes my heart melts. Yea, I know it's playful and that's the point, and yea, I know she can kill her own spiders (shhh, just don't tell her I know). She worked professionally for several years before coming home to concentrate on raising our girls and built a fierce reputation in the process. Our relationship works for us but I don't pretend that it's one size fits all. And, I certainly don't pretend to know the "right" way or even the "best" way, just that I adore my wife and love what we have. I hope our girls can find relationships that bring them this much happiness, and yes, I'll be there when the girls are older and dating to put the fear of god in the boys and to help ensure that our daughters are treated with respect. It takes teaching them to love and respect themselves, and being over-protective doesn't help, but again there's a balance to be found.

So awesome!! And so true.

paperpudding

LOL. I knew this would turn into some huge deal.

It is not sexist for a guy to treat me like a lady because I am ....wait for it....a lady ...

(Ok, so maybe a lady with a sailor's mouth who can burp really loudly, but whatever.)

(And by a "treat me like a lady" I mean be a little more polite to me than if I was some dude.....don't scratch your balls in front of me and I won't burp really loudly in front of you).

ETA---my husband gets the burps. Sorry, honey.

My college Gender Studies classes consistently held that treating you differently because of your gender is the very essence of sexism. Could you clarify why treating different sexes differently is not, in fact, sexism?

Yes, yes. Men and women are exactly the same, and should always be treated, and expected to perform, exactly the same. No biological differences at all, it's society man, society. No need to study actual people, instead we'll create an ideology and make the world fit it. Even when it doesn't.

You could treat people based on their needs rather than making assumptions about them based on gender.

So, he should take a survey before he opens the door for you?

You clearly live in the real world. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure she's printing survey forms.

Or he could just hold the door open for anyone of any gender coming in behind him and open the door for anyone of any gender who looks like they might need a hand - eg a person in a wheelchair or with their hands full or with a pram etc.

IME this works pretty well in the real world

Treating people based on their needs comes down to opening doors.

Yes I agree - but women don't need doors to be opened for them just because they are women.
Open doors for anyone in need of help, regardless of gender.

SunofaBeach14

LOL. I knew this would turn into some huge deal.

It is not sexist for a guy to treat me like a lady because I am ....wait for it....a lady ...

(Ok, so maybe a lady with a sailor's mouth who can burp really loudly, but whatever.)

(And by a "treat me like a lady" I mean be a little more polite to me than if I was some dude.....don't scratch your balls in front of me and I won't burp really loudly in front of you).

ETA---my husband gets the burps. Sorry, honey.

My college Gender Studies classes consistently held that treating you differently because of your gender is the very essence of sexism. Could you clarify why treating different sexes differently is not, in fact, sexism?

Yes, yes. Men and women are exactly the same, and should always be treated, and expected to perform, exactly the same. No biological differences at all, it's society man, society. No need to study actual people, instead we'll create an ideology and make the world fit it. Even when it doesn't.

You could treat people based on their needs rather than making assumptions about them based on gender.

So, he should take a survey before he opens the door for you?

You clearly live in the real world. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure she's printing survey forms.

Or he could just hold the door open for anyone of any gender coming in behind him and open the door for anyone of any gender who looks like they might need a hand - eg a person in a wheelchair or with their hands full or with a pram etc.

IME this works pretty well in the real world

Treating people based on their needs comes down to opening doors.

Yes I agree - but women don't need doors to be opened for them just because they are women.
Open doors for anyone in need of help, regardless of gender.

I don't pretend to speak for all men, I'd be cautious about speaking for all women

greengoddess0123

I'm all for manners and helping the weak. But isn't it condescending to put half the human race into the "weak" category, just because of their sex?

who are these weak people of whom you speak and aren't you being a bit patronizing by helping them?

The OP used the term "weak" in the definition of chivalry. I was referring to that. Sorry, should have quoted.

nancy10272004

Radical Feminists and the far left are trying desperately to kill Chivalry. On of the many ways they are doing this is by pushing the very dangerous notion that women should be serving in direct combat units.
If they actually believed men and women are the exactly the same, they would not advocate for, and support, different physical fitness standards for women i law enforcement, fire departments, and the military.
The majority of men (myself included) can't pass the FBI fitness standards to become an agent. Less than 1% of women would pass if they had to pass the same standard.
Chivalry is not about believing a woman is too weak to open a door. It is about respect. A society that values women, values chivalry too. No society that values women puts them in combat.
By the way,, the hoopla over the women that supposedly passed combat school ignored the fact that they passed under a lower standard than the men. It was all politics.
Men and women are different in was meant to compliment each other. No amount of wishful thinking and brainwashing will ever change that.
Fun fact from the Law Enforcement statistics, Female police officers are over represented in officer involved shootings. SIze matters.

Your last statement seems to have a tinge of disrespect of women. I guess chivalry is dead.

justanotherloser007

My college Gender Studies classes consistently held that treating you differently because of your gender is the very essence of sexism. Could you clarify why treating different sexes differently is not, in fact, sexism?

Because the sexes are completely different AND equal in dignity. So it looks like you didn't really understand the actual definition of sexism. Sexism is NOT that the sexes are the same, the definition of sexism is: prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.

I hope that clears it up a bit for you, I know it confuses my 6th graders as well. I think it is a common misconception. But your gender studies professor should have been clearer.

likitisplit

LOL. I knew this would turn into some huge deal.

It is not sexist for a guy to treat me like a lady because I am ....wait for it....a lady ...

(Ok, so maybe a lady with a sailor's mouth who can burp really loudly, but whatever.)

(And by a "treat me like a lady" I mean be a little more polite to me than if I was some dude.....don't scratch your balls in front of me and I won't burp really loudly in front of you).

ETA---my husband gets the burps. Sorry, honey.

My college Gender Studies classes consistently held that treating you differently because of your gender is the very essence of sexism. Could you clarify why treating different sexes differently is not, in fact, sexism?

Yes, yes. Men and women are exactly the same, and should always be treated, and expected to perform, exactly the same. No biological differences at all, it's society man, society. No need to study actual people, instead we'll create an ideology and make the world fit it. Even when it doesn't.

You could treat people based on their needs rather than making assumptions about them based on gender.

So, he should take a survey before he opens the door for you?

You clearly live in the real world. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure she's printing survey forms.

I'm confused. Do you really find it that difficult to identify when somebody needs help with a heavy door or a tall shelf or something in the real world? Do you really need gender cues to tell you when common courtesy would be appreciated?

All I'm saying is that I'd like people to say "thank you" when I change the water cooler instead of questions about my physical ability based on my gender?

SunofaBeach14

LOL. I knew this would turn into some huge deal.

It is not sexist for a guy to treat me like a lady because I am ....wait for it....a lady ...

(Ok, so maybe a lady with a sailor's mouth who can burp really loudly, but whatever.)

(And by a "treat me like a lady" I mean be a little more polite to me than if I was some dude.....don't scratch your balls in front of me and I won't burp really loudly in front of you).

ETA---my husband gets the burps. Sorry, honey.

My college Gender Studies classes consistently held that treating you differently because of your gender is the very essence of sexism. Could you clarify why treating different sexes differently is not, in fact, sexism?

Yes, yes. Men and women are exactly the same, and should always be treated, and expected to perform, exactly the same. No biological differences at all, it's society man, society. No need to study actual people, instead we'll create an ideology and make the world fit it. Even when it doesn't.

You could treat people based on their needs rather than making assumptions about them based on gender.

So, he should take a survey before he opens the door for you?

You clearly live in the real world. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure she's printing survey forms.

I'm confused. Do you really find it that difficult to identify when somebody needs help with a heavy door or a tall shelf or something in the real world? Do you really need gender cues to tell you when common courtesy would be appreciated?

All I'm saying is that I'd like people to say "thank you" when I change the water cooler instead of questions about my physical ability based on my gender?

Yes, I'm generally a bit more courteous with women. My behavior also adjusts slightly if I'm in Japan, New York, or the southern US. If that upsets you that's not my problem. It's yours. As I said before, I don't speak for all men, I wouldn't expect you to be capable of speaking for all women, and I'll add that I base my behavior more on real world experience rather than Internet people who have demonstrated to me directly to have boundary issues.

RllyGudTweetr

My college Gender Studies classes consistently held that treating you differently because of your gender is the very essence of sexism. Could you clarify why treating different sexes differently is not, in fact, sexism?

Because the sexes are completely different AND equal in dignity. So it looks like you didn't really understand the actual definition of sexism. Sexism is NOT that the sexes are the same, the definition of sexism is: prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.

I hope that clears it up a bit for you, I know it confuses my 6th graders as well. I think it is a common misconception. But your gender studies professor should have been clearer.

So, you think that I had the level of comprehension - in college - that you commonly find in your 6th graders, and don't see any potential offense in that comparison? Fascinating.