Chivalry is dead?

therealblackdahlia

There are still chivalrous and polite men out there. I actually find it more rare to come across at true lady!

paperpudding

Really wouldn’t know any other way to be. Open doors (strangely some of today’s women prefer one doesn’t do this), pull out chairs, stand when a lady enters (even if she doesn’t realize she is), stop dead in my tracks when a women approaches what will become a “crossing of paths” to allow her to go first (boy this gets some peculiar stares), wait in an elevator for the ladies to exit (or outside for them to enter)…

This of course is the tip of a very large iceberg! Removing one’s hat when entering a building and certainly not wearing one at a table (eating or otherwise). Yes Sir, No Sir (that’s what you had better say when I was growing up (still is the best defense when stopped by the friendly constabulary).

To this day it is best if a man do not (in my presence) take upon himself to strike a woman (regardless of reason) whomever she may be (wife, girlfriend, “working” girl…).

I make every effort to not allow any child (of which I am aware) go without necessities (food, clothing, shelter…). Protect the weak from the abuses of the strong! Council any in need (desiring such council).

Continually with vigilance, honor, integrity and unshakable resolve be a friend to humankind!

Yes, chivalry is not dead though I suspect it is in a terminal state of devolvement.

Your first 2 paragraphs describe social etiquette or social or cultural customs - these are never static forever and are always different in different times and places - things like not wearing a hat in certain circumstances.

The second part of your post - from "to this day" - describes non tangible qualities like protecting the weak, acting with integrity - these are values probably desired in all cultures and times and places.
Very different to specific customs - 2 quite separate things.

If by "chivalry" one means general courtesy, acting with integrity, providing for children, not hitting persons weaker than you (regardless of gender) - then, yes, I'm sure we all agree such are good qualities.

If one means social customs like opening doors, pulling out chairs, standing when a lady enters a room - those are social customs and not ones everyone is in agreement with, since not everyone lives in the same place or culture.
I personally do not expect or wish a man to stand when I enter the room - that is just silly IMO and serves no purpose. It is also not a custom in the place, culture and times in which I live.

Thank you so much for your critique of “my” interpretation of what is meant by “Chivalry” . Of course, I am merely a lowly uneducated sort without the advantage of such scholarly advantages as many others. In my humble attempt to convey what it is and means (and well always has) to me; clearly I have erred from that which is the understanding of paperpudding.

I have little excuse as “my” understanding only slightly mirrors that readily found online (certainly not that online sources are an end all):

chiv•al•ry ˈSHivəlrē/
noun: chivalry
1. the medieval knightly system with its religious, moral, and social code.
o historical
knights, noblemen, and horsemen collectively.
"I fought against the cream of French chivalry"
o the combination of qualities expected of an ideal knight, especially courage, honor, courtesy, justice, and a readiness to help the weak.
o courteous behavior, especially that of a man toward women.

Hmmm… “…social etiquette or social or cultural customs…” you say.

Well one might imagine “etiquette” finding its origins in a type of “courteous behavior” then too “moral, and social code” may likewise be found to example “social or cultural customs”.

As regards “…tangible qualities…” it is the matter of a “combination” of such “qualities” (“…especially courage, honor, courtesy, justice, and a readiness to help the weak.”) that, by definition,is descriptive of chivalry.

Regarding one woman’s “opinion” of what is “silly” and what is or is not serving a purpose is obviously just that… an opinion.

Regarding “today’s” custom relative to "...place, culture and times..." in which “we” live; well standing for a lady is a matter of RESPECT for a lady. Removing a hat likewise is a matter of RESPECT.

Of course, as regards serving a “purpose” - irrespective of those without due and proper etiquette to indulge the legitimate “usage” of terms and/or words – such notions as integrity, honor and respect "may" very well be lost.

The purpose – even in the use of the term “chivalry” – serves to maintain (down through the ages) honorable and worthwhile “norms”. Worthwhile in that the “values” and “ways’ of such norms PRESERVE that which man has found to be of enduring VALUE… thus therein lies the purpose.

I should hope I may have helped to shed a modicum of light upon my uneducated meandering of thought that sought only to respond to the question at hand concerning chivalry.

I do, however, appreciate your (@paperpudding) insight into the error of my thinking regarding the complex understanding of chivalry.

I am not sure why you are so upset about my post.

Of course, much of my post is my opinion; even so, I put 'IMO' after a point that was particularly my personal opinion to make sure this was obvious - this is a discussion of a subjective topic like courtesy and customs, not a discussion of scientific facts, like thermodynamics, so everyone's point of view is subjective opinion, not objective data.


but things like removing your hat in certain circumstances is not a universal sign of respect - it may be in your place and culture but it isn't in every place and culture.
I think that sentence is not my opinion, it is a simple factual observation. Do you not agree with that?
or do you think all places and cultures should be the same as yours?

am really not sure what you are so riled up about :indifferent:

Texusmc

Who would have thought that my musings would have caused such a debate. even if it was a friendly one.
thank you all who posted on here. It was a pleasure reading the varied responses and interpretations.