Chivalry is dead?

Jess__I__Can

My husband is. He was also in the USMC for 5 years.

BusyRaeNOTBusty

Just FYI, when you hold a door open for someone make sure they are actually within a few seconds of needing to use said door. I hate when I feel like I have to run to the door because the dude held it open way too early.

AtmaKing

I do my best to always act this way. I also teach my children the same things. Yes ma'am, yes sir, please, thank you, no thank you, ect.

May I please have x, y or z. They do have lapses in judgment sometimes and I will have to repeat myself constantly but eventually I feel as if it will be second nature to them as it is for myself.

I find the problem with society is we allow ourselves to forget what our parents have taught us or we dismiss it as false truths. There are also times that I've been criticized for doing what come naturally to me. "Did you just ma'am me?!?" "Yes ma'am I did. I apologize if my being brought up correctly has offended you; I was only trying to be polite."

Or the old, "Ugh, I can open damn door myself *kitten*." "Yes ma'am, I understand completely have a great day."

I tend to dismiss those things or people as very troubled individuals and thank my good graces that I don’t have the need to act in such a way. I find that if you have standards for yourself, keep them high and do not let others dictate how you act or react to things. Then life tends to work itself out for the better in the long run.

skippygirlsmom

Manners are very big in our house. My 14 year old responds to all adults with yes/no ma 'am or sir, she holds doors for people, helps the ederly with their bags in the store and will stand to give her seat to an adult. She didn't learn this by magic, it was taught at home. I don't tolerate back talk to me or any adult, regardless of the situation. She sends thank you cards if she receives a gift or is invited away with friends on a trip. She calls all her aunts and uncles on a regular basis to say hello and ask how they are doing.

I listen to the way so many kids talk to their parents and other adults, the language they use and they way they act. Makes me wonder what in the world goes on at home.

I get more compliments on how my daughter acts and how sweet she is, makes me very proud of her.

EmilyJackCO

It's dead for sure. It died with the hippies who gave rise to our generation, i'm not ashamed to admit that we gen xers are bad at parenting, and it's kept going downhill. It's just a sign of the overall decline of American society and civility. People have become so used to being handfed that they want someone to raise their kids for them, to tell them how, to tell them what to eat and when. It's all a product of social engineering started by the babyboomer hippies who now run things. My parents taught me to open doors for women, how to behave in public and everything their parents (strict old school parents) taught them.

*cough* My parents were hippies - my mom was in a commune for crying out loud. My father was a musician and had long hair and smoked dope...and still served in Vietnam voluntarily. I was taught chivalry and respect and that it goes for all people, not just opposite genders or generations. I was also taught that I was a reflection of them at all times.

I suspect the decline in civility has less to do with hippies and parenting than it does reality television and social media navel-gazing echo chambers.

skippygirlsmom

I am teaching my sons this. And yes they do use "Yes Sir, Yes Ma'am, No Sir and No Ma'am" and I do not care if that is a "dated" term or not. It is the the PROPER terminology and sign of respect given to men and women.

At my daughter's middle school graduation her principal made this comment "at our school we use yes sir and yes ma'am, if it's good enough for our military members it is good enough for us".

Texusmc

I am teaching my sons this. And yes they do use "Yes Sir, Yes Ma'am, No Sir and No Ma'am" and I do not care if that is a "dated" term or not. It is the the PROPER terminology and sign of respect given to men and women.

At my daughter's middle school graduation her principal made this comment "at our school we use yes sir and yes ma'am, if it's good enough for our military members it is good enough for us".

Nice!

digitalbill

Several years ago, I purchased an older Ford Bronco. I knew the battery in it was crap but, I had not gotten around to buy a new one yet. (I only had it for about a week at this point).
Well, my wife wanted to drive it to the grocery store and, she left the headlights on, thereby killing the battery.
She called me and told me she needed a jump start. I was 10 minutes away so, I headed over there.
I pulled up and there she was, hood up, cables in hand, and looking sad.
I had to drive all the way around the lot in order to get nosed up with her and, in my drives, I noticed a LOT of “tough guy” pickups driving past.
They would slow down enough to check her out but, nobody, not ONE would stop to offer a jump.
I was really surprised at how angry that made me.
What was really MORE interesting is that when I posted this story on Facebook, how many excuses came across.
Fear of being mugged was a popular one.
It still blows my mind.

JustinAnimal

OP, I fully agree with you. Especially with the internet, I feel there is a huge culture of disrespect and wanting to "own" or "pwn" or "serve" or generally show up others (especially strangers) is a big part of being cool these days. General respect seems out the door. I still call people "sir" or "ma'am," even my high school students, because I was taught that this is a respectful thing to do (and I like to model that behavior for my students). However, I get plenty of "ma'am"s who get offended because they think I'm calling them old, and "sir"s who just don't like it.

Personally, I open the door for any stranger if I'm at the door (man, woman, child, my SO, elderly, whatever, just the way I was taught)
I try to open the car door for my SO all of the time, but I can be kind of a space cadet (need to work on that)
I've been mowing my elderly, injured neighbor's lawn; she's threatened to pay, but I've avoided taking it, so far

I think it goes beyond chivalry or general respect, but also honesty, responsibility and accountability. It might be people not being fully aware of their actions, but I see considerate moves made all of the time. Wish I had better examples to give, but I guess I'm a pretty big stickler for behavior (especially in public).

ETA: Also, when I lived in San Francisco and rode the subway (BART), it is amazing how many times you'd see a woman (pregnant or otherwise), a senior, a disabled person, and no one would give up their seat. I'm happy to say that I gave it up. Another one, just about a week ago, I saw a woman struggling with her heavily loaded shopping cart. I kind of surprised myself by asking her if I could steer it back to her car and load it for her. Not bragging, but I made myself feel pretty good about doing that.

Another thing, since people have mentioned etiquette, please, thank you, etc. It's amazing how often people in restaurants say to their server, "Get me a..." instead of, "May I please have a...." I seriously want to ask these people if they were raised by wolves or something. I honestly don't care how much you tip your server (but karma...), but please treat them the way you'd like to be treated. No one wants to get you a anything.

silencioesoro

I think it's necessary for both men and women, nowadays, it seems like it should only be a man thing to do. But, then we have women getting mad when men simply hold the door open and say something simple like, "good morning!"; the women start thinking the man has ulterior motives. I always hold the door open for people if I happen to be in the front, it's what people should do; no ulterior motives.

Also, it's about being polite, when I talk to people who are in retail, restaurant service, etc, I always ask "May I have..." Inquire after their days, always say please and thank you.

Being polite to both genders, regardless of what they do, gets people far.

It's respect for others, ultimately, respect for self.

JustinAnimal

I am teaching my sons this. And yes they do use "Yes Sir, Yes Ma'am, No Sir and No Ma'am" and I do not care if that is a "dated" term or not. It is the the PROPER terminology and sign of respect given to men and women.

In Texas and maybe a few other southern states. This is a purely cultural phenomenon and people outside of that culture ARE NOT being rude just because they don't understand or have experience with your culture.

My husband considers it very rude that students refer to teachers as Miss without including a name. I've had to explain to him that in certain cultures, addressing anyone senior to you by name (even last name) is considered highly offensive and rude, you must be given permission to use their name, so the students will simply say Miss because they think they are being polite.

I am curious which cultures your husband has noticed the "miss" or "mister" without a last name. This one really bugged me at first, until it was explained to me that it's something of a latino phenomenon (again, as it was explained to me). After getting the explanation, it was pretty hard to get upset with students about it (when they ARE trying to do what they were taught is respectful behavior).

DivineChoices

I think respect, politeness, and courtesy should be extended to ALL individuals, regardless of age, gender, etc. I hold doors for many individuals, while smiling and being gracious. My husband holds doors for me, and then I for him. If I could FIT into my husband's jackets, I'm sure he would give me his jacket if I were cold. I use "sir" and "ma'am" when speaking with strangers, and familial elders.

I enjoy that my husband respects my abilities as a person, and doesn't see me as a dainty female that simply cannot do anything by herself. Likewise, I enjoy not taking him for granted and burdening him needlessly. I can help carry groceries. I can help change a tire, pump gas, take out the garbage, fix the roof, paint the house, mow the lawn, etc. He can help fix dinner, run a load of laundry, raise our children, etc.

Chivalry to me, goes beyond respect, but speaks about honor. My husband guards my honor closely. He defends me if someone were to speak ill of me, and he would trade his life for mine (the same can be said about me, so if we're ever in a burning building we'll end up jumping out together. )

He fancies himself a Knight, especially since he is a devout RPGer. One of our inside jokes is that he is my knight in shining tin foil. A knight with shining armor, has yet to use it in battle. I prefer the battle-tested and true knights. :P

And when we have children, I will instill into them the values that I hold dear, so that hopefully, they will be a beacon for others to follow.

QueenBishOTUniverse

I am teaching my sons this. And yes they do use "Yes Sir, Yes Ma'am, No Sir and No Ma'am" and I do not care if that is a "dated" term or not. It is the the PROPER terminology and sign of respect given to men and women.

In Texas and maybe a few other southern states. This is a purely cultural phenomenon and people outside of that culture ARE NOT being rude just because they don't understand or have experience with your culture.

My husband considers it very rude that students refer to teachers as Miss without including a name. I've had to explain to him that in certain cultures, addressing anyone senior to you by name (even last name) is considered highly offensive and rude, you must be given permission to use their name, so the students will simply say Miss because they think they are being polite.

I am curious which cultures your husband has noticed the "miss" or "mister" without a last name. This one really bugged me at first, until it was explained to me that it's something of a latino phenomenon (again, as it was explained to me). After getting the explanation, it was pretty hard to get upset with students about it (when they ARE trying to do what they were taught is respectful behavior).

It is mostly latino, he noticed it both in California and in Texas and grew up always thinking it was rude. When I started teaching in both of these states I explained to him what the issue was, because it was a cultural phenomenon I was not aware of previously either (didn't bug me, just didn't know about it). It still drives him nuts, but that's mostly the OCD at this point, things like that will still bug him even if he understands where the difference comes from.

And that's the problem with talking about things like "proper" behavior, it only counts in your own culture and its a bit unfair to judge someone harshly when they may not even be AWARE of your cultural standards.

headofphat

You could be that way because you're in Texas, or you could be that way because of your military history. Regardless, I have serious doubts that parents are still teaching their kids manners today, whether they be boys or girls.

I'm that way and i'm not in the military or from Texas.

This is one parent that is still teaching manners and he knows i'll bust his little *kitten* if he doesn't show manners. One day he will go into a job interview and use the word ma'am or sir when all the other interviewees are saying what and huh.

ilfaith

Hmm. I tok my kids to Chick-fil-a last night. Hope it wasn't their bad behavior you area speaking of.

I grew up in the Northeast (New York/New Jersey) and while I don't think we had poor manners, I don't remember ever hearing kids say "yes m'am" or "no sir". But now that I live in the South (and in an area with a large military presence) I hear that all the time from children the age of my own boys. So while my kids do know to say please and thank you, and generally have good manners, the whole sir and m'am thing just feels unnatural to me...as does referring to adults as "Miss" or "Mister" Firstname.

AtmaKing

One day he will go into a job interview and use the word ma'am or sir when all the other interviewees are saying what and huh.

My hope is that because things like manners and other such decision making skills I'm teaching, that my kids will be the ones interviewing.

Its the process of making the right decisions not because they are easy or because that is what everyone else is doing. I strongly enforce around my house that "You do the right thing because its the right thing to do."

Tony_Von_Stryfe

Like you i work at it everyday and try to instill those values in my son

Timshel_

It has been a struggle as they see the rest of society being rude, crude and just down right mean.
I am curious, who among the men here are trying to be Chivalrous and use their manners?

People are too self-absorbed anymore, and they will be damned if they will take the time to think of others if it doesn't help themselves in some way. So that comes out as being rude and crude. and having no respect for others.

Most religious doctrines talk about sin or evil in the world. Personally, I think being prideful is one of the worst.

CJisinShape

It's easy to teach men to be chivarous. Just stand at the door and smile sweetly. Try it, it works.

CJisinShape

Hmm. I tok my kids to Chick-fil-a last night. Hope it wasn't their bad behavior you area speaking of.

I grew up in the Northeast (New York/New Jersey) and while I don't think we had poor manners, I don't remember ever hearing kids say "yes m'am" or "no sir". But now that I live in the South (and in an area with a large military presence) I hear that all the time from children the age of my own boys. So while my kids do know to say please and thank you, and generally have good manners, the whole sir and m'am thing just feels unnatural to me...as does referring to adults as "Miss" or "Mister" Firstname.

Saying Sir,ma'am , Miss, Mrs., Mr., is a sign of respect. I think it is also appropriate for adults to use this language when addressing elders or those with a title (Officer, Pastor, Dr., or in-laws).