Chivalry is dead?

digitalbill

I am 45, a Southerner, a Veteran (Army) and a Father.
My Father taught it to me and I am passing it down to my kids.
The "rule of law" in my family is to help those who cannot help themselfs.
My kids have seen me help change a tire for a stranger or give a jump start in a parking lot.
My son has observed me absolutly refuse to take a plate at a gathering until the ladies have already gotten theirs and he is starting to follow suit.
I will say that chivalry is not dead but, it is on life support.
It is a combonation of guys who just don't care and girls who feel it is sexist.

jonward85

I try my best to be Chivalrous. Sometimes there are lapses, but i agree with other posters, society seems out to destroy these things.

PinkyFett

Both genders could learn lessons about this!

I agree!

I'm teaching all my kids to use manners and have courtesy for others. That's how it should be. Not just men.

Monkey_Business

OP, Chivalry is not dead, it is just not pratical to practise anymore. I think you mean are good manners being practise.

I also believe i being a Gentle by conduct "the appellation of Gentleman is never to be affixed to a man's circumstances, but to his Behaviour in them,"
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I try to practise good manners in my daily life, but I also try to be a gentleman.

Just oner ole man's opinion...........

"Chivalry, or the chivalric code, is a code of conduct associated with the medieval institution of knighthood. Chivalry arose from an idealised German custom.[1] It developed first in the north of France among horse soldiers who served in Charlemagne′s heavy cavalry.[2] It was originally conceived of as an aristocratic warrior code — the term derives from the French term chevalerie, meaning horse soldiery[3] — involving gallantry, individual training, and service to others. Over time its meaning has been refined to emphasise more ideals such as the knightly virtues of honour, courtly love, courtesy, and less martial aspects of the tradition.

The Knight's Code of Chivalry was a moral and honourable system that stated all knights should protect others who can not protect themselves, such as widows, children, and elders. All knights needed to have the strength and skills to fight wars in the Middle Ages; they not only had to be strong but they were also extremely disciplined and were expected to use their power to protect the weak and defenseless.

Knights vowed to be loyal, generous, and "of noble bearing". Knights were required to tell the truth and respect the honour of women. Knights vowed to protect the weak and guard the honour of fellow knights. They were to obey those in authority, and to never refuse a challenge from an equal. Knights lived by honour and for glory. Knights were to fear God and maintain His Church. Knights always kept their faith and never turned their back on a foe. Knights despised pecuniary reward. They persevered to the end in any enterprise begun.

asdowe13

I have to disagree here chivalry isn't dead.

It's been beaten into submission.

The attitude and actions of the Feminist empowering movement has taken it's toll on chivalry.

I will hold doors, say thank you, help in anyway I can on a daily basis, sometimes It's welcomed, sometimes I get dirty looks, and/or snarky remarks like " I can get that myself" " do i look like you need to hold the door for me?" "yeah! Thanks"

It doesn't stop me from doing the kind things I do or from being polite, but I can see others just giving up on it, and Frankly I don't blame them.

rsoice

I am starting to see a trend, seems the "older" a guy is (mid 30's on up) the more he was taught manners. very few under 30 men have been taught this. I was partly raised by my grand parents who were very strict and Depression era survivors. so to me that might have allot to do with it.

Not so true. Both of my sons open doors for others (without regard to gender) because I set an example for them to follow. When either of our sons are with us I don't open doors for their mother because they beat me to it. While I agree with the premise that manners are taught I believe that the best teaching method is example. If they've never seen it, they aren't likely to do it but if they see it all the time it becomes a norm which more often than not is emulated.

RINat612

But I firmly believe feminists killed Chivalry as a societal norm for sure. What annoys me to no end is when the feminists (who, by the way, always talk down the men in their lives and apply sweeping generalizations to us men in the office) DEMAND we bring up the crate of printer paper from the downstairs storage room.

Critiques people for making sweeping generalizations. Makes a sweeping generalization. Logical.

I did not make a "sweeping generalization". Feminists did kill Chivalry as a societal norm. The movements wanted women to be equals. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. I view my wife as my equal (better in many things too). But feminists did go further to emasculate masculinity as a whole. This isn't a generalization, it is fact.

When I said my co-workers make "sweeping generalizations" about men, I mean things like "All men never pick up after themselves. All men leave clothes on the floor." I could go on and on. These are generalizations.

sjebert

I try to be and generally I am, but I do find it hard sometimes, I know there have been times when I have held the door open for women only to have them snap at me "I can do it myself" it just makes you want to not do it anymore. I was taught from an early age to hold the doors for ladies and I can still remember the time I did not hold the door for my Grandmother and getting pulled back outside by my ear from my Grandfather and told that was not the way a gentleman acted around ladies.

Collier78

You could be that way because you're in Texas, or you could be that way because of your military history. Regardless, I have serious doubts that parents are still teaching their kids manners today, whether they be boys or girls.

being from Texas really doesn't have much to do with it, however, we do expect our young men to act proper. yeah you do jackassery type of things with your buddies, but when ladies are around you better straighten up. The Military aspect of it just reinforced this I guess.

I teach my children the same thing. The problem is we have entitled children having babies and the cycle continues. Do I still struggle with my children having moments of selfishness, yes. However, I do my best to guide them in the right direction of being well mannered, polite, productive members of society. It isn't easy when there are so many out there that aren't, and they wonder why they have to be better.

justanotherloser007

I know I am a 40yo woman, but I will chime in. The Northern/Southern difference is pretty real. I was born in Michigan, and came to Houston, Texas when I was 8yo. The FIRST thing I learned from my teachers was always, "Yes Ma'am, Yes Sir". My parents didn't understand it. I use ma'am and sir to this day when I don't know someone's name regardless of age. It just makes so much sense. What am I supposed to say, "hey you person?" Daft.

I always try to smile, and be kind, and be good to everyone. Please, thank you, sorry - all part of my constant vocabulary.

I have no children of my own, since I am barren, but I have been married to a very chivalrous loving wonderful man for over 19 years. He says he married me because I understand the chivalrous attitude. I read a ton of fantasy, and chivalry is live and kicking in the books. I showed my complete trust in him when I wrote in "obey" in my marriage vows. Oh the women in my family were so angry about that. But, I wanted to show him that I trust him with my life, and that isn't just lip service it is real. It has created peace in our marriage. One time we were arguing about something stupid, and he said, "Please stop arguing with me." I was angry, but I decided that he was right. I was just arguing. It was awesome and saved a ton of hurt feelings. I know most women will HATE what I just wrote, but it is true.

We both volunteer to teach 6th graders at church. The children aren't particularly mouthy, unless you mean they like to talk a lot to each other. They are always very respectful to me and my husband. We haven't had any problems with bullying in our class - which I think is odd because they complain about it weekly at school. But they have a sense of comraderie, and I have a zero tolerance bully policy that I haven't even had to tell them about! I think that the most chivalrous children are the ones that have had the hardest time at home, and the ones who have big extended families. They seem to be the most responsive to the golden rule and respect.

A couple months ago I overheard parents talking about children's manners one day, and this quote stuck with me, "The easiest thing to do is nothing at all." So chivalry, kindness, appropriate discipline all takes hard work. I believe it is worth it. And just because parents don't teach it doesn't mean children cannot learn it.

BrittanyMG3

Not enough men or even women in my opinion, that's why my husband and I teach our kids the same values as you are teaching yours. I am not a man, but I would still give up my seat for someone else, man, woman, elderly, pregnant, injured, child.. I also always make it a priority to be considerate of other people's needs, holding the door open and being polite everyone, including those that are rude to me...it makes me sad when I see that not everyone else is willing to do the same.. some people are too selfish to take 2 seconds to put someone's needs before their own, or too busy being caught up with their own lives to even pay attention to what's going on around them.

devil_in_a_blue_dress

Why shouldn't chivalry be dead? It's based on the idea that women deserve special treatment. We should just be polite to all people, no matter their genitalia.

RINat612

I try to be and generally I am, but I do find it hard sometimes, I know there have been times when I have held the door open for women only to have them snap at me "I can do it myself" it just makes you want to not do it anymore. I was taught from an early age to hold the doors for ladies and I can still remember the time I did not hold the door for my Grandmother and getting pulled back outside by my ear from my Grandfather and told that was not the way a gentleman acted around ladies.

I guess I've been lucky. I've never had women make comments like that. I've gotten a look or eye roll...

And my Dad would've done the same. I remember the one time my father volunteered me to mow the lawn of a neighbor (and I was happy to do so). When done the lady tried to slip me a $20 to say thank you. I kindly refused and she kept insisting. It eventually came down to her trying to put it in my shirt pocket and I ended up running around a shrub away from her. I imagine I looked ridiculous :laugh:

5stringjeff

As a Texan and a former Army officer, I've had the ideas of chivalry and general kindness drilled into me for most of my life. They're the values I live, and they're the values I will do my best to teach my two sons.

cmurphy252

I am 31. I believe in Chivalry. I always say ma'am, sir, hold open doors, etc... I still refuse to call my 80+ year old neighbor by her first name. Mrs. No exceptions. I would get slapped if I called my Uncle by his first name. My wife's family does it though. Annoys me every time. When I first started dating my wife I would constantly have to slap her hand away from door handles. Especially on double door entryways. I would open the first, she would walk though, and then be the first to the second door. 10 years of marriage later and she has finally learned to be treated like a woman and wait for me to open the second :happy: She loves it now.

But I firmly believe feminists killed Chivalry as a societal norm for sure. What annoys me to no end is when the feminists (who, by the way, always talk down the men in their lives and apply sweeping generalizations to us men in the office) DEMAND we bring up the crate of printer paper from the downstairs storage room.

I appreciated reading your response! Like you, my husband STILL opens the door for me (and anyone else coming behind me)/waits for me to walk through first. He also opens my car door (rain or shine), sits facing the door if we're eating out so that he can scope the surroundings, and walks on the OUTSIDE if we're walking in a parking lot or along the street. When we first got together, I would often forget to allow him to be the gentleman that he is. Like your wife, I've now "got it". I dont necessarily believe that chivalry is dead. Many of the young men/boys at my church will hold the door open and allow the women to go through first. I think a part of the problem (as some have already alluded to) is that some women dont EXPECT men to treat them like women/offended by a man being a gentleman. They read too much into it and start making assumptions that men think they're "less than", simply because they're holding open a door :huh: .

I will say that if I'm out somewhere and get to the door first, I wont stand there waiting for a man to walk up and open it for me. I'll open the door and hold it for whomever is behind me - thats just common courtesy!

Beautifulreflections

I'm raising both my son and my daughters to have manners. Since we are speaking of "chivalry" I'll only attest to my son since chivalry standardly refers to the male gender.

He is 14 now. He says please, thank you, yes (not yup), holds doors, always allows any female to walk ahead of him when crossing paths, tells his friends it isn't "cool" to talk to their mom a certain way (I've overheard this conversation many times). Its not uncommon for someone to actually remark at how polite he is to me just for those random SMALL acts. Although I do not need the recognition (nor does he), my heart melts with pride every time I see it because it is so rare these days.

Now while those acts do not REQUIRE acknowledgement, it is good form to do so. I have nothing but contempt for those @ss hats that will walk through a door he (or my daughters for that fact, as they do it as well) has held and said nothing.

Example: a few weeks ago at the mall my daughters and I were walking out when the daughter in the back noticed an elderly woman and her family walking out behind us. One daughter held the inner door, and the other the outer door while the elderly woman, her daughter, her daughters teenage daughter and then two teenage sons all walked out without saying a word. They then CONTINUED to hold the door for at least 5 more people, all whom at any time could have held their own damn door but proceeded through single file, none-the-less, without saying a word.

When the last of them spilled out of the final door I told them all, "YOU ARE WELCOME". Obnoxious? Maybe. And it certainly didn't teach my daughters anything and of that I'm not proud. But damn it felt good to say it.

greeneyes0809

But I firmly believe feminists killed Chivalry as a societal norm for sure. What annoys me to no end is when the feminists (who, by the way, always talk down the men in their lives and apply sweeping generalizations to us men in the office) DEMAND we bring up the crate of printer paper from the downstairs storage room.

Critiques people for making sweeping generalizations. Makes a sweeping generalization. Logical.

I did not make a "sweeping generalization". Feminists did kill Chivalry as a societal norm. The movements wanted women to be equals. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. I view my wife as my equal (better in many things too). But feminists did go further to emasculate masculinity as a whole. This isn't a generalization, it is fact.

When I said my co-workers make "sweeping generalizations" about men, I mean things like "All men never pick up after themselves. All men leave clothes on the floor." I could go on and on. These are generalizations.

The bolded part sounds to me like a sweeping generalization as to how all so called feminists act.

QueenBishOTUniverse

I try to be and generally I am, but I do find it hard sometimes, I know there have been times when I have held the door open for women only to have them snap at me "I can do it myself" it just makes you want to not do it anymore. I was taught from an early age to hold the doors for ladies and I can still remember the time I did not hold the door for my Grandmother and getting pulled back outside by my ear from my Grandfather and told that was not the way a gentleman acted around ladies.

Now that's one I will never understand. No I don't appreciate the idea of someone doing something "just" because I happen to be female, but I never assume that's why someone offers to hold a door or help me with a heavy object, and I certainly understand that this is what many people have been taught to do so I just see it as being polite. I would NEVER snap at someone for just being polite, tease someone I was on a date about it and make it clear I don't find it necessary sure, but snap at a random stranger....that's just hateful and rude.

dpwellman

The problem most have (the ones that have a problem) with the notion of chivalry (chivalrous behavior) is setting it against a notion of "equality". or more specifically egalitarianism. It's not an equality issue, it's a respect issue. The ability to respect ones' differences is logical and reasonable. To pretend differences don't exist is not logical nor reasonable.

If some women are content to basically have a male version of themselves, then they're welcome to it.

I suppose most women (K-selected women - RAWR) are more than pleased to have man that treats them with due respect and deference.