Chivalry is dead?
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My 30 year old son opens doors for people. I failed on the "sir" and "ma'am" because his father thought it was ridiculous, but "please" and "thank you" are definitely part of his vocabulary. His girlfriend has called me several times to thank me for raising such a nice man.
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I don't know if it is a regional thing, but I really miss southern gentlemen! I rarely see that sort of thing here in Detroit. However, I have noticed that both sexes are accepting of the lack of basic manners here. It isn't just the fault of the men.0
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Haha, what? Holding doors open for people is being a decent human being in general, not chivalry. In my experience, almost every person I've encountered at a door will either hold it open for me or have it be held open for them by me. The same goes for pleases, thank yous, etc. Maybe not "yes ma'am" or "no sir," but those things are pretty dated, especially with greater visibility of gender ambiguous people. I don't know why people think every change that happens is for the worst, but I suppose it's normal, considering every generation has thought the one that came after it would be the one to truly end the world and human civility for all. Retroactively applied rose tint will probably be my response when I get older too.0
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I was raised to be chivalrous. My generation seems to think that when a guy who was raised like myself is being themselves, that they are trying to hit on them or get in their pants by being chivalrous. Messed up..... Sick of it.
Just wanted to say thanks to all the guys who still do show respect w/out expecting anything in return. Carry on. I'll keep smiling and thanking you when you open doors for me.
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Me too 0
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I was raised to be chivalrous. My generation seems to think that when a guy who was raised like myself is being themselves, that they are trying to hit on them or get in their pants by being chivalrous. Messed up..... Sick of it.
Just wanted to say thanks to all the guys who still do show respect w/out expecting anything in return. Carry on. I'll keep smiling and thanking you when you open doors for me.
^^^
I'll second this.
Also agree with this! I take it as politeness and always say thank you!0 -
My husband is one of the most chivalrous people I know. I don't know if it's because of the way he was raised or the fact that he's been in the military for 25 years or if it's just because he's an unbelievably nice person. But I like it either way. I also like the fact that my children (he's their step father) see how he treats me and all other people.
What always surprises me though is how many women actually get offended by his actions (holding doors, letting them enter elevators first, etc.). I just don't get that...0 -
So many people these days feel like manners and courtesy are optional. They don't get why they are expected to act in ways that don't immediately benefit them or directly makes them feel good.I try to pass on this ethos and way of thinking to my son's. It has been a struggle as they see the rest of society being rude, crude and just down right mean.
I am curious, who among the men here are trying to be Chivalrous and use their manners?
I like to think they are the minority. I think it's worthwhile to teach young men and women to have good manners regardless of what others do and don't do. They should keep on using manners even if they get rude or mean reactions.
By being kind and considerate, more opportunities and good things will come their way . Plus it makes them more pleasant to be around. It's worth it.0 -
I have a 5 year old boy who is learning these things. And my 12 year old daughter holds doors, says please's and thank you's and is familiar with how to talk to adults with respect. Not all parents out there have forgotten to instill these values.0
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Chivalry definitely isn't dead. I'm training my horse up for jousting.
As for politness, excellent - but I prefer it if people are polite to everyone, not just women. I have no problem holding doors for anyone. I do detest being called "ma'am", though, makes me feel old and frumpy.0 -
I love when others have manners, I hold doors for people all the time and always use excuse me, please, and thank you.
As far as chivalry, I love when a man is a gentlemen and never assume it's a sexual advance or that he is somehow implying I am too weak. My husband always pumps my gas, holds doors, orders my drinks from the bar and a million other small things to show respect. He even carries any bags or the heaviest, even though he lifts with me and knows damn well how much I can lift.
I teach my daughters manners and my husband shows them how a man behaves with women. My husband also does these things for any woman in his presence, he respects woman and doesn't have any sexist attitudes and is actually very liberal.
I take insult with ultra feminists that view men's actions by the knights code and only see the part of helping the weak. Just because a man shows chivalry does not mean he views you as weak. My husband holds doors for guys also...so :drinker:
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Both genders could learn lessons about this!
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There was a boy in the parking lot this week, maybe 11 years old, who offered to return my cart for me while he was on his way to return his sister's cart. It made my day. 0
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Haha, what? Holding doors open for people is being a decent human being in general, not chivalry. In my experience, almost every person I've encountered at a door will either hold it open for me or have it be held open for them by me. The same goes for pleases, thank yous, etc. Maybe not "yes ma'am" or "no sir," but those things are pretty dated, especially with greater visibility of gender ambiguous people. I don't know why people think every change that happens is for the worst, but I suppose it's normal, considering every generation has thought the one that came after it would be the one to truly end the world and human civility for all. Retroactively applied rose tint will probably be my response when I get older too.
I dont think that is it dated showing respect to those who are senior to you in age. and not saying change isn't a bad thing. just noting how much of a selfish society we have become. Just some observations as I become that "grumpy old man, you damn kids get off my lawn" type of guy. (hopefully not!)0 -
It's dead for sure. It died with the hippies who gave rise to our generation, i'm not ashamed to admit that we gen xers are bad at parenting, and it's kept going downhill. It's just a sign of the overall decline of American society and civility. People have become so used to being handfed that they want someone to raise their kids for them, to tell them how, to tell them what to eat and when. It's all a product of social engineering started by the babyboomer hippies who now run things. My parents taught me to open doors for women, how to behave in public and everything their parents (strict old school parents) taught them.
I am one of those hippies that gave rise to your generation.
Kindness, civility, and politeness aren't dead. Neither are initiative, self-reliance, community, and service. I meet people every day, from every generation, that demonstrate all of them. But people demonstrating these qualities certainly seem harder to find on the interwebs, media outlets and the like because they are places where being not-kind and so on is rewarded with attention, money, and fame.
May I suggest that you are over-generalizing and you might find it useful to get out more and meet a wider range of people than perhaps you have?
All of these qualities begin in individual people making the decision that these qualities matter. If you want civil society, begin by being civil. If you want self-reliance and politeness, demonstrate it. If you want kindness, manifest it. Consistently. That's how "society" works: one person at at time.0 -
I don't know if this is chivalry or just general politeness and courtesy. I was raised to say please, thank you, hold doors, etc. I still do those things every day. My daughter (who will be 3 in September) knows to say please, thank you, and you're welcome.
It's not dead.
agreed. I was raised to be a good person. I will hold doors open for people and in general be nice. I don't have kids but if I ever do they will be taught the same.0 -
The notion of chivalry annoys me. It favours men helping women. Really, we need to move past that and think how can we help one another, regardless of sex or limited abilities. Because I am a man, am I not deserving to have a door held for me, especially when It arms are full. I suspect people would be willing to run and rep a woman struggling with something heavy, but more releuctant to help a male in the same situation.
I agree with you here. I have a few older gentlemen who live in my condo building and I was walking in from the parking lot at the same time one of them was bringing in his groceries. I offered to help him carry his stuff in and he seemed flat out schocked that I would do such a thing. It's kind of sad that common courtesy is often so unexpected.0 -
I am starting to see a trend, seems the "older" a guy is (mid 30's on up) the more he was taught manners. very few under 30 men have been taught this. I was partly raised by my grand parents who were very strict and Depression era survivors. so to me that might have allot to do with it.
For all intents and purposes, I am 26.
I'm 28...
you are one of the few! and keep up the good work
I really don't understand the purpose of solely raising their brood to be successful and not respectful.. Makes no sense at all.0 -
It's dead for sure. It died with the hippies who gave rise to our generation, i'm not ashamed to admit that we gen xers are bad at parenting, and it's kept going downhill. It's just a sign of the overall decline of American society and civility. People have become so used to being handfed that they want someone to raise their kids for them, to tell them how, to tell them what to eat and when. It's all a product of social engineering started by the babyboomer hippies who now run things. My parents taught me to open doors for women, how to behave in public and everything their parents (strict old school parents) taught them.
I am one of those hippies that gave rise to your generation.
Kindness, civility, and politeness aren't dead. Neither is initiative, self-reliance, community, and service. I meet people every day, from every generation, that demonstrate all of them. But people like this certainly seem harder to find in places like the interweb , media outlets and the like, probably because they are places where being not being kind and so on is rewarded with attention, money, and fame.
May I suggest then that you are over-generalizing and you might find it useful to get out more and meet a wider range of people than perhaps you have?
And that said, all of these qualities start with individual people making the decision that these qualities matter. If you want civil society, begin by being civil. If you want self-reliance and politeness, demonstrate it. If you want kindness, manifest it. That's how "society" changes, one person at at time.
From one of those hippies to another, well said. In person, I actually meet very few rude people. My son is a gen x-er and he is polite, considerate and very hardworking, just like his parents. Online, that is a different story altogether, but I imagine most people in person are not really like that.0 -
The notion of chivalry annoys me. It favours men helping women. Really, we need to move past that and think how can we help one another, regardless of sex or limited abilities. Because I am a man, am I not deserving to have a door held for me, especially when It arms are full. I suspect people would be willing to run and rep a woman struggling with something heavy, but more releuctant to help a male in the same situation.
I agree with you here. I have a few older gentlemen who live in my condo building and I was walking in from the parking lot at the same time one of them was bringing in his groceries. I offered to help him carry his stuff in and he seemed flat out schocked that I would do such a thing. It's kind of sad that common courtesy is often so unexpected.
See, perhaps this attitude is why it is either close to dead, or dead period. Making it seem such a bad thing that a man wants to go out of his way to do something nice. I understand it should be 'equal' but then also don't take it as a guy trying to flirt or get in your pants if he tries to help you out in public..0 -
1. The sir and mam thing absolutely is because you're from Texas. Nothing wrong with it, but my husband and I both moved to Texas in our early teens and we still laugh about the whole sir and mam thing because it's just not something that was done in the places we were originally from and was quite a culture shock when we moved.
2. I'm not fond of "chivalry" in the manner it typically implies, just being honest here. I am however, quite fond of being polite. If you hold the door open for me, I'm perfectly happy to assume you are just being polite, just as I'm being polite if I hold the door for you. But I had a BF in high-school who would always hold the door and jump out of his chair when a woman entered the room and it drove me right up the wall! I would intentionally jump in front of him and grab the door first, we both laughed about it, but the idea of someone treating me at all differently because I'm a woman, even if it's just to be "polite" or how he was raised really does rub me the wrong way and always has. It's perfectly possible to be polite without having to make it gender specific.0 -
I try every day, to not only teach my kids, but also model it in every situation. I work with the public everyday, and I often get yelled at by women who get offended when I say "yes ma'am" or "no ma'am" ... I'm sorry ... I was born and raised in the South, and I was taught to respect people ... I hold doors, offer to carry heavy packages, use "sir" and "ma'am", and I say "excuse me". I believe in being a Southern gentleman, but even more than that, I believe in being respectful. I try everyday to SHOW my son these things ... and I SHOW my daughter how a man should treat her.
This world we live in is CRAZY and getting CRAZIER by the day ... I hope that more and more people will begin teaching chivalry AND respect ... our world DEFINITELY needs more of it!0 -
Great thread. Topic creator, you are doing everything right. Don't stop, and especially don't stop teaching your kids that. I don't think chivalry is dead as long as there are a few good chivalrous men out there in the world. And there are, you are one of them. My husband is one too, he still opens the car door for me EVERY time, 7 years after meeting him.
If we go around saying "Chivalry is dead," its almost like we are admitting it and giving up on it. But we should never give up on our morals and beliefs.0 -
Do to others as you would have them do to you! Just be thoughtful and kind to each other! No matter sex, race, or any other differences. This is what I'm teaching my boys!0
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I'm an English gentleman so if I'm walking with a female down a pavement I'll stand on the side closest to the road so that a horse drawn carriage (or a car) doesn't splash her with a puddle. In a restaurant I'll let the lady have the seat next to the wall so she can view the room (be nosey) and all my attention will be focused on just her.
I understand that some women feel undermined by chivalrous acts but I'll hold a door open for anyone, regardless of age or gender. I even once held a door open for a hedgehog.
I do wonder what these women would do if they were on the Titanic and the captain shouted 'women and children first'. Would she say 'don't you bloody patronise me!' or would she get the hell out of there I ask myself.0 -
I wouldn't call any of what the OP describes chivalrous - I'd just call it common courtesy (apart from the "sir" and "m'am" thing - thats a Texas thing, I'm guessing). I'd hold a door for anybody and expect the same in return.
However, I am British.0 -
It's dead for sure. It died with the hippies who gave rise to our generation, i'm not ashamed to admit that we gen xers are bad at parenting, and it's kept going downhill. It's just a sign of the overall decline of American society and civility. People have become so used to being handfed that they want someone to raise their kids for them, to tell them how, to tell them what to eat and when. It's all a product of social engineering started by the babyboomer hippies who now run things. My parents taught me to open doors for women, how to behave in public and everything their parents (strict old school parents) taught them.
From your profile picture, I can assume that you are not a parent. Having a cat is not the same as raising a child. I am a proud Gen Xer. I have not been hand fed anything. I am a REAL parent with two REAL children who are boys. I teach them to open doors and to say please and thank you. These are good characteristics of a human not just a male human. I will hold a door for anyone who needs it including another women.
I just love how people without children generalize about how to raise kids when they have NO CLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0 -
Texusmc, I agree with you, I do all the things that you listed myself, was brought up that way and teach them to both my kids, nieces and nephews. It's not dead yet, there are still some of us that believe in it and practice it.
Maybe its a Texas thing or just the South, I'm from Texas too.0 -
I'm an English gentleman so if I'm walking with a female down a pavement I'll stand on the side closest to the road so that a horse drawn carriage (or a car) doesn't splash her with a puddle. In a restaurant I'll let the lady have the seat next to the wall so she can view the room (be nosey) and all my attention will be focused on just her.
I understand that some women feel undermined by chivalrous acts but I'll hold a door open for anyone, regardless of age or gender. I even once held a door open for a hedgehog.
I do wonder what these women would do if they were on the Titanic and the captain shouted 'women and children first'. Would she say 'don't you bloody patronise me!' or would she get the hell out of there I ask myself.
LOL, I'm a good swimmer :laugh: (and yes, I know it's the temperature that's the real issue but since we're discussing hypotheticals)0 -
We live in a world where kindness and manners are so scarce, it is often confused with bad intentions. This is sad...
Raised a southern gentleman. It was expected that you use good manners. If not discipline was handed out as a matter of fact. Whether it was from our family or another adult. You were taught respect and courtesy. From the time I could use my body weight and hold open a door it was expected. As was taking care of any younger than you, looking out for them, and teaching them the same. One thing I remember in particular was all of the adults that passed through the door I held praised me in some way. When someone is praised or given attention for doing something it reinforces that trait. Be it positive or negative. Attention is attention.
I have not only noticed but also been quite put off by the lack of kindness and almost constant confusion about being courteous. People being angered you opened a door for them as if they are too weak or incapable of doing so. Opening a door for a family and getting the creeper stare as if you will kidnap the children and assault the women. Also the lack of the use of 'thank you' going around. Some do not even give you the courtesy of eye contact. You open the door, smile, and they parade through avoiding all eye contact without even a thank you. These are usually the same one who let the door fall on everyone else.
Yes, it irks me. When I do see someone being courteous and using manners I go out of my way. I especially love to see how it throws many of the younger crowd when you give them respect and praise where they deserve it. Many are not used to it. Want to see a young man puff up and a young lady preen. Praise them. Thank them. It makes a world of difference.0
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