Hunting vs. Endangered Hunting

dbmata

Is it legal? As long as it's legal and the funds from those types of hunts are being used for the preservation of the species then I'm not going to get too worked up about it. And by "too" I mean "at all."

The case of the OP, yeah, it was legal.

trojan_bb

Didn't read the responses, but OP, do you know how endangered species hunting permits work?

They are given out rarely and usually in instances where that specific animal is no longer breeding and/or a threat to the already small population.


The permits are auctioned off at exorbitant prices and the proceeds HELP the endangered species in a number of ways. These permits are a GREAT thing and do a ton of good.

SunofaBeach14

Is it legal? As long as it's legal and the funds from those types of hunts are being used for the preservation of the species then I'm not going to get too worked up about it. And by "too" I mean "at all."

The case of the OP, yeah, it was legal.

Yea, I know. Rhetorical question. They have to cull animals anyway, and these permits allow them to do it in a way that brings in critically necessary revenue. I'm just amused at the level of anger by those completely ignorant of the process that is being demonstrated here.

QueenBishOTUniverse

Ok, one more, fish are great if they're from populations that are responsibly managed, but there are some very serious issues regarding the overfishing of the large predatory fish. And then there's the mercury issue. And on that lovely cliffhanger I really am off. Back after deadlifts.

yeah, but half of us are male, and most of us aren't eating fish caught out of Minamata bay

Yea yea yea, look at me, I'm male and don't have to worry about mercury I miss my tuna sashimi dammit!:sad: Although, if I had to guess, I doubt most of the tuna that consumer reports tested came from Minamata bay.....

And if you think gator gar is a problem try explaining reproductive rates in sharks :grumble: . They dissected a 14 foot great white while I was in South Africa, she hadn't even hit reproductive maturity yet, never mind the fact that they give birth at numbers and rates comparable to the large mammalian species.

pandabear_

I hate posts like this, they are just made to rile people up.

There's this whole it's natural to kill or something, but what she's doing is posing with animals that she has shot from really far away and have been enclosed for her to shoot. She's a horrible human being. It's for glory and her own ego rather than survival. Is she starving and needs to eat? No. It's hardly impressive. Impressive would be if she managed to kill a lion by herself in a ring, gladiator style with her bare hands.

George_Baileys_Ghost

I think that if Kendall really cares about the service she's providing (and not just the hunt for the sake of it), I think she should help educate people on these types of measures. Put more explanations about why she was licensed to kill the given animal and how it actually helps the local populations of both the animal's species and humans.

Unpossible. You can't defeat belief with logic.

Remember, there are still people who think creationism is real.

bluefox9er

we don't live in the stone ages any more, grocery stores are everywhere these days.

but by all means go camo yourself up, get some buddies, get drunk in the woods and shoot animals with sniper rifles from 10 feet if that satisfies your need to eat.

Flab2Fab27

any kind of hunting is pretty pathetic and disgusting

my dad is a hunter so I grew up with it and have been around it my entire life

zero respect for it

What are your thoughts on consuming road kill?

trojan_bb

I hate posts like this, they are just made to rile people up.

There's this whole it's natural to kill or something, but what she's doing is posing with animals that she has shot from really far away and have been enclosed for her to shoot. She's a horrible human being. It's for glory and her own ego rather than survival. Is she starving and needs to eat? No. It's hardly impressive. Impressive would be if she managed to kill a lion by herself in a ring, gladiator style with her bare hands.

The beauty of markets is that selfish desires are exchanged producing benefits for many.

This "horrible human being" did more for the survival of that species than 99% of MFP.

The Black Rhino permit that was recently auctioned off for $350,000? that person did a LOT more good for the black rhino population than most people could ever dream of doing.

karinaApplebombinos

Didn't read the responses, but OP, do you know how endangered species hunting permits work?

They are given out rarely and usually in instances where that specific animal is no longer breeding and/or a threat to the already small population.


The permits are auctioned off at exorbitant prices and the proceeds HELP the endangered species in a number of ways. These permits are a GREAT thing and do a ton of good.

It's kinda sad/pathetic that people get their panties in a wad because they are "passionate animal lovers" who are uninformed. Legal hunting is preserving life in Africa. High fence big game hunting in South Africa is for people who want to hunt and can afford it. It is REALLY expensive. It's different from hunting in big areas that aren't fenced, perhaps easier because there is a smaller amount of country to cover. But, it is still promoting conservation in Africa because it puts a value on the animal. There is plenty of poaching in Africa, and a huge penalty for it, often death. It is unfortunate that all this blood lust because a "girl" hunts big animals and posts about it. She's proud of her effort. She did nothing illegal. Is it helping the hunting community? Absolutely not, in my opinion. But those of us who hunt, will still hunt.

roanokejoe49

As for me personally...I try not to hunt anything that can hunt me back...its safer that way.

That makes you a stalker, not a hunter.

pandabear_

I hate posts like this, they are just made to rile people up.

There's this whole it's natural to kill or something, but what she's doing is posing with animals that she has shot from really far away and have been enclosed for her to shoot. She's a horrible human being. It's for glory and her own ego rather than survival. Is she starving and needs to eat? No. It's hardly impressive. Impressive would be if she managed to kill a lion by herself in a ring, gladiator style with her bare hands.

The beauty of markets is that selfish desires are exchanged producing benefits for many.

This "horrible human being" did more for the survival of that species than 99% of MFP.

The Black Rhino permit that was recently auctioned off for $350,000? that person did a LOT more good for the black rhino population than most people could ever dream of doing.

I don't see how any of that takes away my horrible human being accusation...

I was just remarking on how gruesome it is that someone is posing next to and glorifying weaponry and dead animals. But then I find most photos glorifying weaponry like this disgusting.

roanokejoe49

Ahem, my husband's former boss owns a company that produces gun holsters. He is a world renowned shooter. He has done endangered species hunting. He has also gone out with the game wardens in South Africa and hunted the poachers, and I do mean that literally.

That makes your husband's former boss a ****.

George_Baileys_Ghost

What amazes me about the animal rights movement, is how convenient it is for every person to set the goalpost wherever they feel best keeps them out of the realm of hypocrisy. Sure, no using animals for food, clothing, medicine, or any modern convenience...but so little guilt over how many activists are fine living in massive urban centers which have displaced thousands of species.

...yes, it's the hunters who kill a few under carefully regulated laws that are the sad, pathetic, disgusting, evil people.


(To be honest, this was written largely as an example of how an extreme, emotional post can detract from the actual conversation. I can understand both sides, but do you see how easy it is to wax angry and stir up a giant stink when the discourse is largely emotional, as opposed to a rational exchange of ideas that maybe we hadn't previously thought of. Consider the strengths and weaknesses of not only the opposing view, but your own as well. Labeling the people who may disagree with you as sad, pathetic, disgusting, etc does little more than make a lot of noise that no one is going to listen to. Calmly presented facts however....that's where the money is. (Or rather, where it should be.))

Slacker16

Also you assume nature has a sense of balance.
Let me give you a hint. It doesn't. You're assuming that because wolves are there suddenly they are going to thin the herds by taking only what they need during a certain time. Let me clear things up with you. Wolves have been known to slaughter entire herds and not because they were hungry but because they got a dopamine high.

Actually, nature does have a sense of balance. If wolves depopulate a region of prey they will have less food which will in turn cull their numbers. IOW, the rate of change of a wolf population is positively affected by the deer population and the rate of change of the deer population is negatively affected by the wolf population.

It's a system of linear differential equations. Its solution, assuming a reasonable initial state and certain conditions on the surrounding ecosystem, is an oscillating equilibrium. Queenbish should know more about this than I do.

ETA:

Is it legal? As long as it's legal and the funds from those types of hunts are being used for the preservation of the species then I'm not going to get too worked up about it. And by "too" I mean "at all."

That's a fair position, but let's not pretend that laws and regulations cannot be greased with a little money oil.

SunofaBeach14

I hate posts like this, they are just made to rile people up.

There's this whole it's natural to kill or something, but what she's doing is posing with animals that she has shot from really far away and have been enclosed for her to shoot. She's a horrible human being. It's for glory and her own ego rather than survival. Is she starving and needs to eat? No. It's hardly impressive. Impressive would be if she managed to kill a lion by herself in a ring, gladiator style with her bare hands.

The beauty of markets is that selfish desires are exchanged producing benefits for many.

This "horrible human being" did more for the survival of that species than 99% of MFP.

The Black Rhino permit that was recently auctioned off for $350,000? that person did a LOT more good for the black rhino population than most people could ever dream of doing.

I don't see how any of that takes away my horrible human being accusation...

I was just remarking on how gruesome it is that someone is posing next to and glorifying weaponry and dead animals. But then I find most photos glorifying weaponry like this disgusting.

Don't let reality get in the way of your tantrum? Okay then.

QueenBishOTUniverse

Ahem, my husband's former boss owns a company that produces gun holsters. He is a world renowned shooter. He has done endangered species hunting. He has also gone out with the game wardens in South Africa and hunted the poachers, and I do mean that literally.

That makes your husband's former boss a ****.

Lol, he absolutely is, we can't stand the man.

pandabear_

I hate posts like this, they are just made to rile people up.

There's this whole it's natural to kill or something, but what she's doing is posing with animals that she has shot from really far away and have been enclosed for her to shoot. She's a horrible human being. It's for glory and her own ego rather than survival. Is she starving and needs to eat? No. It's hardly impressive. Impressive would be if she managed to kill a lion by herself in a ring, gladiator style with her bare hands.

The beauty of markets is that selfish desires are exchanged producing benefits for many.

This "horrible human being" did more for the survival of that species than 99% of MFP.

The Black Rhino permit that was recently auctioned off for $350,000? that person did a LOT more good for the black rhino population than most people could ever dream of doing.

I don't see how any of that takes away my horrible human being accusation...

I was just remarking on how gruesome it is that someone is posing next to and glorifying weaponry and dead animals. But then I find most photos glorifying weaponry like this disgusting.

Don't let reality get in the way of your tantrum? Okay then.

What are you talking about? Tantrum? Reality?

I also find looking at pictures of the Holocaust sickening. Is this opinion wrong? Am I supposed to look at graphic images and feel no emotion at all? Sorry for not being a robot Mr. Reality.

SunofaBeach14

I hate posts like this, they are just made to rile people up.

There's this whole it's natural to kill or something, but what she's doing is posing with animals that she has shot from really far away and have been enclosed for her to shoot. She's a horrible human being. It's for glory and her own ego rather than survival. Is she starving and needs to eat? No. It's hardly impressive. Impressive would be if she managed to kill a lion by herself in a ring, gladiator style with her bare hands.

The beauty of markets is that selfish desires are exchanged producing benefits for many.

This "horrible human being" did more for the survival of that species than 99% of MFP.

The Black Rhino permit that was recently auctioned off for $350,000? that person did a LOT more good for the black rhino population than most people could ever dream of doing.

I don't see how any of that takes away my horrible human being accusation...

I was just remarking on how gruesome it is that someone is posing next to and glorifying weaponry and dead animals. But then I find most photos glorifying weaponry like this disgusting.

Don't let reality get in the way of your tantrum? Okay then.

What are you talking about? Tantrum? Reality?

I also find looking at pictures of the Holocaust sickening. Is this opinion wrong? Am I supposed to look at graphic images and feel no emotion at all? Sorry for not being a robot Mr. Reality.

Oh. Look at that. Not so subtle hyperbolic comparison to the holocaust.

QueenBishOTUniverse

Also you assume nature has a sense of balance.
Let me give you a hint. It doesn't. You're assuming that because wolves are there suddenly they are going to thin the herds by taking only what they need during a certain time. Let me clear things up with you. Wolves have been known to slaughter entire herds and not because they were hungry but because they got a dopamine high.

Actually, nature does have a sense of balance. If wolves depopulate a region of prey they will have less food which will in turn cull their numbers. IOW, the rate of change of a wolf population is positively affected by the deer population and the rate of change of the deer population is negatively affected by the wolf population.

It's a system of linear differential equations. Its solution, assuming a reasonable initial state and certain conditions on the surrounding ecosystem, is an oscillating equilibrium. Queenbish should know more about this than I do.

In theory, yes that's the basics of it. We do however need some clarification here. Neither the wolves or their prey will self regulate at the population level, but in a healthy ecosystem predatory species will exert a top down control on other species in the system and control their numbers while the predators themselves are controlled by the amount of prey available and the resulting starvation that will occur if they outproduce their food source.

But that's the basics, you start throwing in human impact and removal of predators from the system and the mathematical models used for trying to predict outcomes become exponentially more complicated. And North American ecosystems are typically so far from their natural state that it's almost impossible to apply traditional models.