Who knew sexism in churches still exists.
Replies
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My dad is a preacher of a non-denominational Christian church. He has always taught me to be a pillar of strength and a warrior. Not all churches or preachers are like this. He calls my mom his "Princess Warrior". We badass and we know it. He will say all day long that most women are stronger than men in most circumstances.
I thank God for a father AND preacher like that.
Seriously! Your dad is a rare breed. You're very lucky, especially to have him as a father.
Yes. Religious folk is all warriors and religion is a battle. Oh wait. Maybe that part is right. *flashes peace sign*0 -
This was your mother's church, correct?
Then your mother is attending a church that is upholding her traditional values. That is her choice. If you do not share her values, then attend a different church.
It's pretty simple.0 -
The Eleven Satanic Rules of Earth;*
1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another's lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
(*I'm not a Satanist - I'm Agnostic)
There's a mating signal?
Whoa!
What's the mating signal?
I'm gonna do it!
At sword practice tonight!0 -
Sorry but the promotion of slavery is wrong in any context.0
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This is still going on?0
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*puts dukes up* HAHAHAMy dad is a preacher of a non-denominational Christian church. He has always taught me to be a pillar of strength and a warrior. Not all churches or preachers are like this. He calls my mom his "Princess Warrior". We badass and we know it. He will say all day long that most women are stronger than men in most circumstances.
I thank God for a father AND preacher like that.
Seriously! Your dad is a rare breed. You're very lucky, especially to have him as a father.
Yes. Religious folk is all warriors and religion is a battle. Oh wait. Maybe that part is right. *flashes peace sign*
Oh, and I'm not talking specifically about Christianity. I'm NOT religious...at all. I'm saying my dad raised me to be a warrior in life...period. This has gotten me thru many battles not related to religion because religion sucks.0 -
To the OP about the previous verses:
You have to take into account the cultural times. In those days the churches were split up Men on one side and Women on the other. The Women would ask questions during the service, because in those time they were not taught the same as men and they would interrupt and therefore they were told not to ask questions. The idea of submissiveness has been distorted. The Feminism in America has come in to turn it into something its not. That and men have taken it and abused it also. Yes a wife is to be submissive to her husband. But the husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church, meaning giving of himself to her and serving her by laying his life down for her and leading her. The submissiveness in the bible does not indicate men being superior but being created as the leader. There is a set up authority: God leads the husband and the husband leads the wife. The wife is expected to submit to her husbands decisions unless it goes against God and His standards. That doesn't mean she gets trampled on but to look to her husband as the leader as she looks to Jesus as a leader. God set it up that way from the beginning. The command goes both ways. The husband has expectations and so does the wife. But people want to have their own independence and therefore do not want to be submissive to anyone especially God. Its not really about sexism as much as it is about independence from how God created things to be and its not really an offense from the church as it is towards God who created things. People want their life apart from the authority of God and It just gets twisted by a fallen nature and distorted into getting upset at a prayer that ask for men to be what they were created to be and women to be created to be. I don't say all this to be arrogant or anything. I really hope it doesn't come off that way. I just thought I would share a different point of view
Well I for one and so very glad that I have my future husband to show me how to live my life. Thank god for that because gosh darnit, I wouldn't know what to do if I didn't have him guiding me.
There are about a million things that I severely disagree with in the paragraph that I have quoted. It literally makes me boil on the inside, I disagree so much. I want to hit someone.0 -
In before the lock...
I agree with the OP that some of the quotes provided could be viewed as sexist in the context they were presented to us. Maybe the sermon provided a different understanding of the meaning of the pamphlet - (or not).
Agree with many prior posts that the bible is sexist when considering today's views. But it wasn't sexist when it was written, and it is very specific about gender and roles.
FWIW - My church talks about the forbidden subjects fairly regularly...maybe a tough sermon every 4 or 6 months or so. They cover divorce, infidelity, abortion, homosexuality, pre-marital sex...etc. We always lose members after those sermons, but our church has grown from an idea to 3,000 members in about 13 years. If interested...my denomination is Protestant. NIV bible is our main source for sermons, but many use ESV for study and some use ASV.0 -
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To the OP about the previous verses:
You have to take into account the cultural times. In those days the churches were split up Men on one side and Women on the other. The Women would ask questions during the service, because in those time they were not taught the same as men and they would interrupt and therefore they were told not to ask questions. The idea of submissiveness has been distorted. The Feminism in America has come in to turn it into something its not. That and men have taken it and abused it also. Yes a wife is to be submissive to her husband. But the husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church, meaning giving of himself to her and serving her by laying his life down for her and leading her. The submissiveness in the bible does not indicate men being superior but being created as the leader. There is a set up authority: God leads the husband and the husband leads the wife. The wife is expected to submit to her husbands decisions unless it goes against God and His standards. That doesn't mean she gets trampled on but to look to her husband as the leader as she looks to Jesus as a leader. God set it up that way from the beginning. The command goes both ways. The husband has expectations and so does the wife. But people want to have their own independence and therefore do not want to be submissive to anyone especially God. Its not really about sexism as much as it is about independence from how God created things to be and its not really an offense from the church as it is towards God who created things. People want their life apart from the authority of God and It just gets twisted by a fallen nature and distorted into getting upset at a prayer that ask for men to be what they were created to be and women to be created to be. I don't say all this to be arrogant or anything. I really hope it doesn't come off that way. I just thought I would share a different point of view
You're actually trying to justify turning an entire gender into followers and another gender into leaders? And this is okay how? The answer is, it's not okay. And no phrasing of it will ever make it okay.0 -
Sorry to disappoint, but I won't be dragged into a pointless argument with a stranger over the internet. Have yourself a wonderful day.
You post a topic about religion, make statements that make it blatantly clear you haven't read the bible completely, justify your own version of Christianity with nothing more than personal opinion and personal preference, talk about religion like you were shopping for the best deal on drapes to match your furniture (church with the most views that fit your own)...
and then when someone disagrees, you don't have time to be dragged into a pointless argument with a stranger over the internet...
all the while, posting in a public forum...on the internet...addressing strangers.
I refused to be dragged into the pointless argument because of a certain offensive picture the person posted. Again, it was not meant for anyone who disagrees with me. If you pay attention, I actually am responding and having conversations with people who have differing opinions.
Posting a random general statement and not quoting the person you are referencing leads one to believe that the comment was meant for the thread as a whole.
Yes, it does. But if you'd taken literally one minute to read what was posted, you'd have read the part where I said I forgot to quote who I was talking to. Which is entirely possible given how many people I was replying to at the time.0 -
sexism still exists everywhere
so this is not a shock0 -
sexism still exists everywhere
so this is not a shock
You'd think so....0 -
Not trying to raise too much of a fuss... Just want to poke my nose in and make a tiny point pertaining to the "Satanist" comment... If someone totally disagrees with Catholicism, Christianity, etc... You absolutely can not be a Satanist... Use your noggin... Satan is contained... in the bible... If you're against/don't believe in Christianity, then by default, you cannot be a Satanist... because... you don't believe in him >.<
As for all the other stuff. I'm all for beauty and strength, but these days, single mothers have to be pillars as well as bring grace and beauty, and single fathers have to teach grace and beauty as well as be pillars. No matter what the bible, the sermon, the pamphlet, or your pastor says... Sometimes it's better to just disregard the information if it's not doing personal harm to you and yours. It's unnecessary stress and these days, we have so much unavoidable stress, why pile more on >.<
On a brighter note, I love everyone!
P. S. The golden rule is best!... Treat others as you would like to be treated. I taught it to my children and so many still teach it to theirs. But we forget to practice it ourselves :frown: So simple and so perfect. If everyone would live by it, the world would be glorious :bigsmile:0 -
the entire bible does not suppress women... just look at Deborah, a judge. and like another poster stated, you have to take into context the culture at the time the bible was written. things are different now. whereas it says: men, it means today: human kind (all of us)
It's 2014 and we have come a long way, however, we still have a long way to go, imho.
Thank you for saying this. Unfortunately too many people believe the whole Bible should be taken completely literally.0 -
It exists everywhere else; why not church? Prayer is a waste of time anyway. Just ignore it
I was healed instantly from gallbladder disease because of prayer. Instantly.
Oh? Do you have anything other than personal experience/anecdote to verify that?
5 doctors in 2 states said I'd have to have my gallbladder removed. I was having attacks about 3 times a week. the first time I had one I thought I would die, the pain was so excrutiating. I was in the middle of a gallbladder attack when I was prayed over in the name of Jesus. I ran, threw up all over my bathroom, and all the pain was gone. I haven't had a gallbladder attack since that day, nearly six years now.0 -
Has anyone ever played Cards Against Humanity? :devil:
*munches popcorn*0 -
Hypothetical scenario: you have two cups. One cup is a tall drinking glass, another is a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain. Which do you use to drink water every day? Which do you use for a special occasion? Are they equal? They both hold liquids. They can both do the same things. Equal and different, with the weaker vessel given preferential treatment, and the drinking glass used for its strength.
In my entire life I have never had someone call me a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain and then turn it around into something extremely derogatory.
Do you honestly not see how horrific that statement is? How condescending and extremely arrogant that was?0 -
It exists everywhere else; why not church? Prayer is a waste of time anyway. Just ignore it
I was healed instantly from gallbladder disease because of prayer. Instantly.
Oh? Do you have anything other than personal experience/anecdote to verify that?
5 doctors in 2 states said I'd have to have my gallbladder removed. I was having attacks about 3 times a week. the first time I had one I thought I would die, the pain was so excrutiating. I was in the middle of a gallbladder attack when I was prayed over in the name of Jesus. I ran, threw up all over my bathroom, and all the pain was gone. I haven't had a gallbladder attack since that day, nearly six years now.
This reminds me of Tim Minchin's Thank you God song :laugh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZeWPScnolo&feature=kp 0 -
Not trying to raise too much of a fuss... Just want to poke my nose in and make a tiny point pertaining to the "Satanist" comment... If someone totally disagrees with Catholicism, Christianity, etc... You absolutely can not be a Satanist... Use your noggin... Satan is contained... in the bible... If you're against/don't believe in Christianity, then by default, you cannot be a Satanist... because... you don't believe in him >.<
As for all the other stuff. I'm all for beauty and strength, but these days, single mothers have to be pillars as well as bring grace and beauty, and single fathers have to teach grace and beauty as well as be pillars. No matter what the bible, the sermon, the pamphlet, or your pastor says... Sometimes it's better to just disregard the information if it's not doing personal harm to you and yours. It's unnecessary stress and these days, we have so much unavoidable stress, why pile more on >.<
On a brighter note, I love everyone!
P. S. The golden rule is best!... Treat others as you would like to be treated. I taught it to my children and so many still teach it to theirs. But we forget to practice it ourselves :frown: So simple and so perfect. If everyone would live by it, the world would be glorious :bigsmile:
Seriously the best thing I've read here tonight. Treat as others as you would like to be treated. Probably the most repeated rule but somehow I always forget it. Not good.0 -
I'm like a Chinadoll, dammit, don't ruin my dreams. I'm just waiting for someone to put me up in my glass case.Hypothetical scenario: you have two cups. One cup is a tall drinking glass, another is a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain. Which do you use to drink water every day? Which do you use for a special occasion? Are they equal? They both hold liquids. They can both do the same things. Equal and different, with the weaker vessel given preferential treatment, and the drinking glass used for its strength.
In my entire life I have never had someone call me a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain and then turn it around into something extremely derogatory.
Do you honestly not see how horrific that statement is? How condescending and extremely arrogant that was?0 -
One of the many reasons I'm an Atheist. Also, find it really insulting that Lillith, the first wife of Adam was thrown out of the garden for DARING to want to be seen as an equal. You could ask the preacher why the prayers were like that. Get a dialogue going and see what happens. It's always fun to challenge oneself and others.0
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Has anyone ever played Cards Against Humanity? :devil:
*munches popcorn*
0 -
It exists everywhere else; why not church? Prayer is a waste of time anyway. Just ignore it
I was healed instantly from gallbladder disease because of prayer. Instantly.
Oh? Do you have anything other than personal experience/anecdote to verify that?
5 doctors in 2 states said I'd have to have my gallbladder removed. I was having attacks about 3 times a week. the first time I had one I thought I would die, the pain was so excrutiating. I was in the middle of a gallbladder attack when I was prayed over in the name of Jesus. I ran, threw up all over my bathroom, and all the pain was gone. I haven't had a gallbladder attack since that day, nearly six years now.
just read your profile.
you know you can lose the weight because YOU are able, right?
and i guess i lied. so much for me shutting up.0 -
the entire bible does not suppress women... just look at Deborah, a judge. and like another poster stated, you have to take into context the culture at the time the bible was written. things are different now. whereas it says: men, it means today: human kind (all of us)
It's 2014 and we have come a long way, however, we still have a long way to go, imho.
Gotta disagree with you here. If the bible means humanity when it refers to man, what does it mean when there are specific references to woman?
The bible as originally written does repress women to a great extent, like about every time it mentions the relationship between men and women. It's just the more modern interpretations by "man" that make it more inclusive when it comes to gender, not the original wording of the document.0 -
Please, get over it.My church had a special service yesterday and part of it had this prayer printed on leaflets that were handed out to the congregation. I wasn't able to make it but my mom went and brought back a copy of this prayer. I am so infuriated by it, and by the fact that I wasn't there to say something.
Basically it had different portions for sisters and brothers and fathers and mothers and stuff. The men's parts talked about stuff like "help us to be rivers of pride and prosperity to our families," and "help us to be assets of strength to our families," while the women's parts said, "help us to add a touch of beauty and grace to our families," and "help us to be sources of warmth and encouragement to our families." On the outside it doesn't seem like such a big deal but the wording makes me so angry.
Women are told to ask to be a touch of beauty. That wording sounds gentle and delicate. Men are assets of strength, which makes them sound strong and firm, like pillars. And who said women can't ask God to be both prosperous and warm? It was so sexist. I didn't see the need to divide the prayer into two genders. Both men and women can ask for both things, (though asking to be a touch of beauty for men does seem a bit funny.
The fact that this came from a church is what made me furious. That they're still peddling these stereotypical, outdated gender roles is telling.0 -
Sexism in church? Shocking!
“Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." - Timothy 2:11
“…the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.” 1 Corinthians 14:34-35
“Wives, be submissive to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.” Ephesians 5:21-24
“….and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be sensible, chaste, domestic, kind, and submissive to their husbands, that the word of God may not be discredited…. Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect…” Titus 2:4-9
The author of Titus, Ephesians and Corinthians was Paul, who was an *kitten*.0 -
It exists everywhere else; why not church? Prayer is a waste of time anyway. Just ignore it
I was healed instantly from gallbladder disease because of prayer. Instantly.
Oh? Do you have anything other than personal experience/anecdote to verify that?
5 doctors in 2 states said I'd have to have my gallbladder removed. I was having attacks about 3 times a week. the first time I had one I thought I would die, the pain was so excrutiating. I was in the middle of a gallbladder attack when I was prayed over in the name of Jesus. I ran, threw up all over my bathroom, and all the pain was gone. I haven't had a gallbladder attack since that day, nearly six years now.
This is why we know that god likes you better than all those kids he lets die every year0 -
I'm like a Chinadoll, dammit, don't ruin my dreams. I'm just waiting for someone to put me up in my glass case.Hypothetical scenario: you have two cups. One cup is a tall drinking glass, another is a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain. Which do you use to drink water every day? Which do you use for a special occasion? Are they equal? They both hold liquids. They can both do the same things. Equal and different, with the weaker vessel given preferential treatment, and the drinking glass used for its strength.
In my entire life I have never had someone call me a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain and then turn it around into something extremely derogatory.
Do you honestly not see how horrific that statement is? How condescending and extremely arrogant that was?
Now that you've said it, me too.
Hopefully I can find a man who can also fix my hair and put me in nice dresses as well.0 -
Not trying to raise too much of a fuss... Just want to poke my nose in and make a tiny point pertaining to the "Satanist" comment... If someone totally disagrees with Catholicism, Christianity, etc... You absolutely can not be a Satanist... Use your noggin... Satan is contained... in the bible... If you're against/don't believe in Christianity, then by default, you cannot be a Satanist... because... you don't believe in him >.<
I already said I was being facetious with the Satanist comment... (the rest of the comment was serious - I was trying to highlight that the similarities in religion are much greater than the differences) - I clarified in my last post on this thread0
This discussion has been closed.
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