Who knew sexism in churches still exists.

silkmfp

Dude, I'm gay. The church, even the "accepting" kind, still tell me on a daily basis I'm a sinner just for being who I am. And they smile, completely ignorant to the fact they just insulted me on a very personal level.

neandermagnon

To the OP about the previous verses:

You have to take into account the cultural times. In those days the churches were split up Men on one side and Women on the other. The Women would ask questions during the service, because in those time they were not taught the same as men and they would interrupt and therefore they were told not to ask questions. The idea of submissiveness has been distorted. The Feminism in America has come in to turn it into something its not. That and men have taken it and abused it also. Yes a wife is to be submissive to her husband. But the husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church, meaning giving of himself to her and serving her by laying his life down for her and leading her. The submissiveness in the bible does not indicate men being superior but being created as the leader. There is a set up authority: God leads the husband and the husband leads the wife. The wife is expected to submit to her husbands decisions unless it goes against God and His standards. That doesn't mean she gets trampled on but to look to her husband as the leader as she looks to Jesus as a leader. God set it up that way from the beginning. The command goes both ways. The husband has expectations and so does the wife. But people want to have their own independence and therefore do not want to be submissive to anyone especially God. Its not really about sexism as much as it is about independence from how God created things to be and its not really an offense from the church as it is towards God who created things. People want their life apart from the authority of God and It just gets twisted by a fallen nature and distorted into getting upset at a prayer that ask for men to be what they were created to be and women to be created to be. I don't say all this to be arrogant or anything. I really hope it doesn't come off that way. I just thought I would share a different point of view

You're actually trying to justify turning an entire gender into followers and another gender into leaders? And this is okay how? The answer is, it's not okay. And no phrasing of it will ever make it okay.

That is not at all what I am saying. This regards to marriage. There are certainly some very strong women in leadership that I know personally that have helped me quite a bit in life. But they also know that when it comes to leadership under God, He made it that way for a reason and are not afraid to come under authority because to be given authority you have to learn how to come under it. That being said in regards to marriage it is absolutely truth. Whether people want to agree with it or not it is still truth. Just because someone says its not true does not make it any less true. Just because the truth is offensive to someone does not make it any less true. It just means they don't like the truth because it imposes on their life. Its funny to me how people can scream for tolerance for everyone but Christians these days.

And... Saying something is the truth doesn't MAKE it the truth.

How do you KNOW it's the truth? What proof do you have?

Never going to work with christians. You are asking them to think. If it isn't in their book, it isn't possible. You will never get proof, because the only proof text that exists is their own text. You can't use the bible to prove the bible so they keep running in circles.

Jesus is his own proof. He is a historical figure that, while on earth, never wrote a book, went to college, led an army, hold office, or travel more than two hundred miles from his place of birth. He was born in a manger and preached his message for three years.

Here we are, thousands of years later, discussing him, while the kings and presidents and generals of armies have long been forgotten.

Um. So Allah and the Buddha have the same proof.

But both of those have been proven to be dead...

Where is the power in a dead god?

There has never been proof that Jesus was not resurrected.

Allah is God. If you read an Arabic translation of the bible, you'll find the Arabic word "Allah" everywhere that God is mentioned.

Muhammad recognised Jesus as a prophet and the messiah - and also that Jesus is still alive, but wasn't resurrected because he never died. So he was definitely talking about the same God that Jesus spoke of, even if he didn't believe exactly the same things about him that Christians do.

You can't believe in God and say that Allah is dead. That's like saying that you like to drink water but you think maya* does not exist.


*Arabic word for water

Nateforau

To the OP about the previous verses:

You have to take into account the cultural times. In those days the churches were split up Men on one side and Women on the other. The Women would ask questions during the service, because in those time they were not taught the same as men and they would interrupt and therefore they were told not to ask questions. The idea of submissiveness has been distorted. The Feminism in America has come in to turn it into something its not. That and men have taken it and abused it also. Yes a wife is to be submissive to her husband. But the husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church, meaning giving of himself to her and serving her by laying his life down for her and leading her. The submissiveness in the bible does not indicate men being superior but being created as the leader. There is a set up authority: God leads the husband and the husband leads the wife. The wife is expected to submit to her husbands decisions unless it goes against God and His standards. That doesn't mean she gets trampled on but to look to her husband as the leader as she looks to Jesus as a leader. God set it up that way from the beginning. The command goes both ways. The husband has expectations and so does the wife. But people want to have their own independence and therefore do not want to be submissive to anyone especially God. Its not really about sexism as much as it is about independence from how God created things to be and its not really an offense from the church as it is towards God who created things. People want their life apart from the authority of God and It just gets twisted by a fallen nature and distorted into getting upset at a prayer that ask for men to be what they were created to be and women to be created to be. I don't say all this to be arrogant or anything. I really hope it doesn't come off that way. I just thought I would share a different point of view

You're actually trying to justify turning an entire gender into followers and another gender into leaders? And this is okay how? The answer is, it's not okay. And no phrasing of it will ever make it okay.

That is not at all what I am saying. This regards to marriage. There are certainly some very strong women in leadership that I know personally that have helped me quite a bit in life. But they also know that when it comes to leadership under God, He made it that way for a reason and are not afraid to come under authority because to be given authority you have to learn how to come under it. That being said in regards to marriage it is absolutely truth. Whether people want to agree with it or not it is still truth. Just because someone says its not true does not make it any less true. Just because the truth is offensive to someone does not make it any less true. It just means they don't like the truth because it imposes on their life. Its funny to me how people can scream for tolerance for everyone but Christians these days.

And... Saying something is the truth doesn't MAKE it the truth.

How do you KNOW it's the truth? What proof do you have?

Never going to work with christians. You are asking them to think. If it isn't in their book, it isn't possible. You will never get proof, because the only proof text that exists is their own text. You can't use the bible to prove the bible so they keep running in circles.

Jesus is his own proof. He is a historical figure that, while on earth, never wrote a book, went to college, led an army, hold office, or travel more than two hundred miles from his place of birth. He was born in a manger and preached his message for three years.

Here we are, thousands of years later, discussing him, while the kings and presidents and generals of armies have long been forgotten.

Um. So Allah and the Buddha have the same proof.

But both of those have been proven to be dead...

Where is the power in a dead god?

There has never been proof that Jesus was not resurrected.

That's because there is little evidence that he existed to begin with. Hahaha. Other than one minor Jewish historian named Josephus writing in the mid first century, please provide proof that he even existed.

Ratrap

But both of those have been proven to be dead...

Where is the power in a dead god?

There has never been proof that Jesus was not resurrected.

All three religions have life after death mythology, therefore, according to the followers of those religions, none of them are actually dead.

Edit: and Mohammed, the profit, is considered deceased as far as a human body, Allah is considered the god of Islam, and to say he is dead will not make Muslims very happy with you.

I wont claim to know much about either religion. I just know that Buddha or Allah can claim what Jesus claimed. I don't want to hurt anyone or anything. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I am just expressing mine as are you. I don't see you any less or any more. Either way your still a person Jesus loves and wants a relationship with whether you believe it or not.

greentart

To the OP about the previous verses:

You have to take into account the cultural times. In those days the churches were split up Men on one side and Women on the other. The Women would ask questions during the service, because in those time they were not taught the same as men and they would interrupt and therefore they were told not to ask questions. The idea of submissiveness has been distorted. The Feminism in America has come in to turn it into something its not. That and men have taken it and abused it also. Yes a wife is to be submissive to her husband. But the husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church, meaning giving of himself to her and serving her by laying his life down for her and leading her. The submissiveness in the bible does not indicate men being superior but being created as the leader. There is a set up authority: God leads the husband and the husband leads the wife. The wife is expected to submit to her husbands decisions unless it goes against God and His standards. That doesn't mean she gets trampled on but to look to her husband as the leader as she looks to Jesus as a leader. God set it up that way from the beginning. The command goes both ways. The husband has expectations and so does the wife. But people want to have their own independence and therefore do not want to be submissive to anyone especially God. Its not really about sexism as much as it is about independence from how God created things to be and its not really an offense from the church as it is towards God who created things. People want their life apart from the authority of God and It just gets twisted by a fallen nature and distorted into getting upset at a prayer that ask for men to be what they were created to be and women to be created to be. I don't say all this to be arrogant or anything. I really hope it doesn't come off that way. I just thought I would share a different point of view

You're actually trying to justify turning an entire gender into followers and another gender into leaders? And this is okay how? The answer is, it's not okay. And no phrasing of it will ever make it okay.

That is not at all what I am saying. This regards to marriage. There are certainly some very strong women in leadership that I know personally that have helped me quite a bit in life. But they also know that when it comes to leadership under God, He made it that way for a reason and are not afraid to come under authority because to be given authority you have to learn how to come under it. That being said in regards to marriage it is absolutely truth. Whether people want to agree with it or not it is still truth. Just because someone says its not true does not make it any less true. Just because the truth is offensive to someone does not make it any less true. It just means they don't like the truth because it imposes on their life. Its funny to me how people can scream for tolerance for everyone but Christians these days.

And... Saying something is the truth doesn't MAKE it the truth.

How do you KNOW it's the truth? What proof do you have?

Never going to work with christians. You are asking them to think. If it isn't in their book, it isn't possible. You will never get proof, because the only proof text that exists is their own text. You can't use the bible to prove the bible so they keep running in circles.

Jesus is his own proof. He is a historical figure that, while on earth, never wrote a book, went to college, led an army, hold office, or travel more than two hundred miles from his place of birth. He was born in a manger and preached his message for three years.

Here we are, thousands of years later, discussing him, while the kings and presidents and generals of armies have long been forgotten.

Um. So Allah and the Buddha have the same proof.

But both of those have been proven to be dead...

Where is the power in a dead god?

There has never been proof that Jesus was not resurrected.

Proven... to be dead? How do you prove a God to be dead, and what exactly do you use as proof?

To the OP, there will always be sexism. In the church, in society, in the world. Why? Because people have opinions, and other people will agree or disagree with those opinions, and then those opinions grow into beliefs and that's the way the world works. Same with racism, bigotry, and every other 'ism' around. It can be fought against, but you can't change someone's opinion (belief) if they don't want it to be changed.

1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy are both in the New Testament, and should therefore be followed by any Bible abiding Christian (aka: Christian, because you SHOULD be Bible abiding). Both of these verses speak to a woman's subservient role, both in the home and in church. This isn't in the Old Testament, where it can be swept under the rug. If you've never come across these verses, perhaps its time to actually READ the holy scripture in which you claim to follow.

CJisinShape

To the OP about the previous verses:

You have to take into account the cultural times. In those days the churches were split up Men on one side and Women on the other. The Women would ask questions during the service, because in those time they were not taught the same as men and they would interrupt and therefore they were told not to ask questions. The idea of submissiveness has been distorted. The Feminism in America has come in to turn it into something its not. That and men have taken it and abused it also. Yes a wife is to be submissive to her husband. But the husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church, meaning giving of himself to her and serving her by laying his life down for her and leading her. The submissiveness in the bible does not indicate men being superior but being created as the leader. There is a set up authority: God leads the husband and the husband leads the wife. The wife is expected to submit to her husbands decisions unless it goes against God and His standards. That doesn't mean she gets trampled on but to look to her husband as the leader as she looks to Jesus as a leader. God set it up that way from the beginning. The command goes both ways. The husband has expectations and so does the wife. But people want to have their own independence and therefore do not want to be submissive to anyone especially God. Its not really about sexism as much as it is about independence from how God created things to be and its not really an offense from the church as it is towards God who created things. People want their life apart from the authority of God and It just gets twisted by a fallen nature and distorted into getting upset at a prayer that ask for men to be what they were created to be and women to be created to be. I don't say all this to be arrogant or anything. I really hope it doesn't come off that way. I just thought I would share a different point of view

You're actually trying to justify turning an entire gender into followers and another gender into leaders? And this is okay how? The answer is, it's not okay. And no phrasing of it will ever make it okay.

That is not at all what I am saying. This regards to marriage. There are certainly some very strong women in leadership that I know personally that have helped me quite a bit in life. But they also know that when it comes to leadership under God, He made it that way for a reason and are not afraid to come under authority because to be given authority you have to learn how to come under it. That being said in regards to marriage it is absolutely truth. Whether people want to agree with it or not it is still truth. Just because someone says its not true does not make it any less true. Just because the truth is offensive to someone does not make it any less true. It just means they don't like the truth because it imposes on their life. Its funny to me how people can scream for tolerance for everyone but Christians these days.

And... Saying something is the truth doesn't MAKE it the truth.

How do you KNOW it's the truth? What proof do you have?

Never going to work with christians. You are asking them to think. If it isn't in their book, it isn't possible. You will never get proof, because the only proof text that exists is their own text. You can't use the bible to prove the bible so they keep running in circles.

Jesus is his own proof. He is a historical figure that, while on earth, never wrote a book, went to college, led an army, hold office, or travel more than two hundred miles from his place of birth. He was born in a manger and preached his message for three years.

Here we are, thousands of years later, discussing him, while the kings and presidents and generals of armies have long been forgotten.

Um. So Mohamed and the Buddha have the same proof.

Mohammed was a military leader and Budda was a prince, so no, they do not have the same proof. Jesus is a unique figure in history, incomparable.

neandermagnon

Hypothetical scenario: you have two cups. One cup is a tall drinking glass, another is a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain. Which do you use to drink water every day? Which do you use for a special occasion? Are they equal? They both hold liquids. They can both do the same things. Equal and different, with the weaker vessel given preferential treatment, and the drinking glass used for its strength.

In my entire life I have never had someone call me a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain and then turn it around into something extremely derogatory.

Do you honestly not see how horrific that statement is? How condescending and extremely arrogant that was?

Me thinks the lady does exaggerate, would you say? Horrific? Poppycock!

Seriously, though, I'm a woman. I'm physically very strong, stronger than some men. So what? You get 3 straight guys living together, it usually smells like feet and cheese. Those three guys get married and their standard of living usually goes way up, whether wife works or not. It's called, "a woman's touch." It's a good thing.

That is incredibly sexist against men.

I have a good idea, let's take all the stereotypes about all kinds of people, and throw them all in a big skip, and then shoot that skip out into space and then nuke it, and start regarding each person as an individual human being, who may or may not have some things in common with other individual human beings.

Incredibly sexist against men? In my defense, what I said was true. Men are amazing. Statue of David? Absolutely gorgeous. Seal Team 6 were all men. Women are amazing. I think our debate about equal access and equal pay in this country has been extrapolated to a point of ridiculousness where just appreciating the different natures and actions of the genders is offensive. Ridiculous, IMO.

Straight men smell? Really?? You've met every straight man whose shared accommodation with other straight men and checked this fact for yourself?

My comment was about stereotypes. Your assertion that straight men smell... well that's a stereotype. Stereotypes are one of the foundations upon which prejudice grows.

According to the stereotypes, I'm a lesbian. Except I'm sexually attracted to men. So, there must be something wrong with the stereotypes.

Well, that explains your anger.

Regarding straight men, I think smelling is a universal trait regardless of sexual preference, once puberty sets in. Its why they make deodorant. A feminine tendency is to make the effort for a more lovely home.

And I bid you adieu. No offence, but you are making really random arguments. Unless you were joking.

I'm not angry. I couldn't really give a damn if people think I'm a lesbian or not (unless it's a man I want to have sex with, then I have a vested interested in him knowing that I'm straight). Some of my best friends (and one of my cousins) are lesbians. I'm just using myself as an example of why stereotypes are wrong, and frankly stupid.

I'm not making random arguments. You just don't want to question whether your "generalisations" are stereotypes.

Meerataila

But both of those have been proven to be dead...

Where is the power in a dead god?

There has never been proof that Jesus was not resurrected.

All three religions have life after death mythology, therefore, according to the followers of those religions, none of them are actually dead.

Edit: and Mohammed, the profit, is considered deceased as far as a human body, Allah is considered the god of Islam, and to say he is dead will not make Muslims very happy with you.

I wont claim to know much about either religion. I just know that Buddha or Allah can claim what Jesus claimed. I don't want to hurt anyone or anything. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I am just expressing mine as are you. I don't see you any less or any more. Either way your still a person Jesus loves and wants a relationship with whether you believe it or not.

Hey, any deity is welcome to come have a relationship anytime with me. I'm right here. But I'm not listening to what people have to say about it. You all can't even agree which god is the right one!

I appreciate your good intentions, though.

neandermagnon

But both of those have been proven to be dead...

Where is the power in a dead god?

There has never been proof that Jesus was not resurrected.

All three religions have life after death mythology, therefore, according to the followers of those religions, none of them are actually dead.

Edit: and Mohammed, the profit, is considered deceased as far as a human body, Allah is considered the god of Islam, and to say he is dead will not make Muslims very happy with you.

I wont claim to know much about either religion. I just know that Buddha or Allah can claim what Jesus claimed. I don't want to hurt anyone or anything. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I am just expressing mine as are you. I don't see you any less or any more. Either way your still a person Jesus loves and wants a relationship with whether you believe it or not.

You clearly know absolutely jack sh** about Islam, because you have no freaking idea who Allah is. Sad, because if you did, you would not speak of him as you do. Seriously.

Allah is God. It's Arabic for God. Just like Arabic for "table" is "tawla"

Go read any Arabic translation of the bible. the word Allah (in Arabic script) is there every time the word God is in the English one.

Rage_Phish

who knew there is sexism in church? i thought everyone knew this

ComradeTovarich

So I see that no one in this topic worships the God Emperor of Mankind. I have alerted the Ordo Hereticus and have requested that this thread be subjected to exterminatus. GOOD DAY, HERETICS.

CJisinShape

To the OP about the previous verses:

You have to take into account the cultural times. In those days the churches were split up Men on one side and Women on the other. The Women would ask questions during the service, because in those time they were not taught the same as men and they would interrupt and therefore they were told not to ask questions. The idea of submissiveness has been distorted. The Feminism in America has come in to turn it into something its not. That and men have taken it and abused it also. Yes a wife is to be submissive to her husband. But the husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church, meaning giving of himself to her and serving her by laying his life down for her and leading her. The submissiveness in the bible does not indicate men being superior but being created as the leader. There is a set up authority: God leads the husband and the husband leads the wife. The wife is expected to submit to her husbands decisions unless it goes against God and His standards. That doesn't mean she gets trampled on but to look to her husband as the leader as she looks to Jesus as a leader. God set it up that way from the beginning. The command goes both ways. The husband has expectations and so does the wife. But people want to have their own independence and therefore do not want to be submissive to anyone especially God. Its not really about sexism as much as it is about independence from how God created things to be and its not really an offense from the church as it is towards God who created things. People want their life apart from the authority of God and It just gets twisted by a fallen nature and distorted into getting upset at a prayer that ask for men to be what they were created to be and women to be created to be. I don't say all this to be arrogant or anything. I really hope it doesn't come off that way. I just thought I would share a different point of view

You're actually trying to justify turning an entire gender into followers and another gender into leaders? And this is okay how? The answer is, it's not okay. And no phrasing of it will ever make it okay.

That is not at all what I am saying. This regards to marriage. There are certainly some very strong women in leadership that I know personally that have helped me quite a bit in life. But they also know that when it comes to leadership under God, He made it that way for a reason and are not afraid to come under authority because to be given authority you have to learn how to come under it. That being said in regards to marriage it is absolutely truth. Whether people want to agree with it or not it is still truth. Just because someone says its not true does not make it any less true. Just because the truth is offensive to someone does not make it any less true. It just means they don't like the truth because it imposes on their life. Its funny to me how people can scream for tolerance for everyone but Christians these days.

And... Saying something is the truth doesn't MAKE it the truth.

How do you KNOW it's the truth? What proof do you have?

Never going to work with christians. You are asking them to think. If it isn't in their book, it isn't possible. You will never get proof, because the only proof text that exists is their own text. You can't use the bible to prove the bible so they keep running in circles.

Jesus is his own proof. He is a historical figure that, while on earth, never wrote a book, went to college, led an army, hold office, or travel more than two hundred miles from his place of birth. He was born in a manger and preached his message for three years.

Here we are, thousands of years later, discussing him, while the kings and presidents and generals of armies have long been forgotten.

Um. So Allah and the Buddha have the same proof.

But both of those have been proven to be dead...

Where is the power in a dead god?

There has never been proof that Jesus was not resurrected.

That's because there is little evidence that he existed to begin with. Hahaha. Other than one minor Jewish historian named Josephus writing in the mid first century, please provide proof that he even existed.

More books have been written about Jesus than about anyone else that has ever existed. I'll bet you believe Plato and Aristotle existed.

neandermagnon

So I see that no one in this topic worships the God Emperor of Mankind. I have alerted the Ordo Hereticus and have requested that this thread be subjected to exterminatus. GOOD DAY, HERETICS.

I think Ordo Templi Orientis is better though. Crowley had more imagination than other people who rebelled against christianity.

Meerataila

So I see that no one in this topic worships the God Emperor of Mankind. I have alerted the Ordo Hereticus and have requested that this thread be subjected to exterminatus. GOOD DAY, HERETICS.

I misread that as Hershey's. The god of my prior fat lady life! :laugh:

SunofaBeach14

To the OP about the previous verses:

You have to take into account the cultural times. In those days the churches were split up Men on one side and Women on the other. The Women would ask questions during the service, because in those time they were not taught the same as men and they would interrupt and therefore they were told not to ask questions. The idea of submissiveness has been distorted. The Feminism in America has come in to turn it into something its not. That and men have taken it and abused it also. Yes a wife is to be submissive to her husband. But the husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church, meaning giving of himself to her and serving her by laying his life down for her and leading her. The submissiveness in the bible does not indicate men being superior but being created as the leader. There is a set up authority: God leads the husband and the husband leads the wife. The wife is expected to submit to her husbands decisions unless it goes against God and His standards. That doesn't mean she gets trampled on but to look to her husband as the leader as she looks to Jesus as a leader. God set it up that way from the beginning. The command goes both ways. The husband has expectations and so does the wife. But people want to have their own independence and therefore do not want to be submissive to anyone especially God. Its not really about sexism as much as it is about independence from how God created things to be and its not really an offense from the church as it is towards God who created things. People want their life apart from the authority of God and It just gets twisted by a fallen nature and distorted into getting upset at a prayer that ask for men to be what they were created to be and women to be created to be. I don't say all this to be arrogant or anything. I really hope it doesn't come off that way. I just thought I would share a different point of view

You're actually trying to justify turning an entire gender into followers and another gender into leaders? And this is okay how? The answer is, it's not okay. And no phrasing of it will ever make it okay.

That is not at all what I am saying. This regards to marriage. There are certainly some very strong women in leadership that I know personally that have helped me quite a bit in life. But they also know that when it comes to leadership under God, He made it that way for a reason and are not afraid to come under authority because to be given authority you have to learn how to come under it. That being said in regards to marriage it is absolutely truth. Whether people want to agree with it or not it is still truth. Just because someone says its not true does not make it any less true. Just because the truth is offensive to someone does not make it any less true. It just means they don't like the truth because it imposes on their life. Its funny to me how people can scream for tolerance for everyone but Christians these days.

And... Saying something is the truth doesn't MAKE it the truth.

How do you KNOW it's the truth? What proof do you have?

Never going to work with christians. You are asking them to think. If it isn't in their book, it isn't possible. You will never get proof, because the only proof text that exists is their own text. You can't use the bible to prove the bible so they keep running in circles.

Jesus is his own proof. He is a historical figure that, while on earth, never wrote a book, went to college, led an army, hold office, or travel more than two hundred miles from his place of birth. He was born in a manger and preached his message for three years.

Here we are, thousands of years later, discussing him, while the kings and presidents and generals of armies have long been forgotten.

Um. So Mohamed and the Buddha have the same proof.

Mohammed was a military leader and Budda was a prince, so no, they do not have the same proof. Jesus is a unique figure in history, incomparable.

lol - we're special and better than you! Jesus got his *kitten* kicked. Hardly the act of a god.

tycho_mx

I assume that by church you mean a Christian institution. Maybe you use the Bible as a guide? Let's see:

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

Saul of Tarsus, a.k.a. Saint Paul was one of the biggest misogynists to leave written testimony. So yeah... Your relationship to god is your issue. But keep in mind that as long as your group uses these teachings as canon, sexism doesn't just "exist", it is enticed and promoted.

Nateforau

To the OP about the previous verses:

You have to take into account the cultural times. In those days the churches were split up Men on one side and Women on the other. The Women would ask questions during the service, because in those time they were not taught the same as men and they would interrupt and therefore they were told not to ask questions. The idea of submissiveness has been distorted. The Feminism in America has come in to turn it into something its not. That and men have taken it and abused it also. Yes a wife is to be submissive to her husband. But the husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church, meaning giving of himself to her and serving her by laying his life down for her and leading her. The submissiveness in the bible does not indicate men being superior but being created as the leader. There is a set up authority: God leads the husband and the husband leads the wife. The wife is expected to submit to her husbands decisions unless it goes against God and His standards. That doesn't mean she gets trampled on but to look to her husband as the leader as she looks to Jesus as a leader. God set it up that way from the beginning. The command goes both ways. The husband has expectations and so does the wife. But people want to have their own independence and therefore do not want to be submissive to anyone especially God. Its not really about sexism as much as it is about independence from how God created things to be and its not really an offense from the church as it is towards God who created things. People want their life apart from the authority of God and It just gets twisted by a fallen nature and distorted into getting upset at a prayer that ask for men to be what they were created to be and women to be created to be. I don't say all this to be arrogant or anything. I really hope it doesn't come off that way. I just thought I would share a different point of view

You're actually trying to justify turning an entire gender into followers and another gender into leaders? And this is okay how? The answer is, it's not okay. And no phrasing of it will ever make it okay.

That is not at all what I am saying. This regards to marriage. There are certainly some very strong women in leadership that I know personally that have helped me quite a bit in life. But they also know that when it comes to leadership under God, He made it that way for a reason and are not afraid to come under authority because to be given authority you have to learn how to come under it. That being said in regards to marriage it is absolutely truth. Whether people want to agree with it or not it is still truth. Just because someone says its not true does not make it any less true. Just because the truth is offensive to someone does not make it any less true. It just means they don't like the truth because it imposes on their life. Its funny to me how people can scream for tolerance for everyone but Christians these days.

And... Saying something is the truth doesn't MAKE it the truth.

How do you KNOW it's the truth? What proof do you have?

Never going to work with christians. You are asking them to think. If it isn't in their book, it isn't possible. You will never get proof, because the only proof text that exists is their own text. You can't use the bible to prove the bible so they keep running in circles.

Jesus is his own proof. He is a historical figure that, while on earth, never wrote a book, went to college, led an army, hold office, or travel more than two hundred miles from his place of birth. He was born in a manger and preached his message for three years.

Here we are, thousands of years later, discussing him, while the kings and presidents and generals of armies have long been forgotten.

Um. So Allah and the Buddha have the same proof.

But both of those have been proven to be dead...

Where is the power in a dead god?

There has never been proof that Jesus was not resurrected.

That's because there is little evidence that he existed to begin with. Hahaha. Other than one minor Jewish historian named Josephus writing in the mid first century, please provide proof that he even existed.

More books have been written about Jesus than about anyone else that has ever existed. I'll bet you believe Plato and Aristotle existed.

And this is relevant how? I asked for proof of existence. People writing books is your proof? Do you also believe in Harry Potter?

Lofteren

My church had a special service yesterday and part of it had this prayer printed on leaflets that were handed out to the congregation. I wasn't able to make it but my mom went and brought back a copy of this prayer. I am so infuriated by it, and by the fact that I wasn't there to say something.

Basically it had different portions for sisters and brothers and fathers and mothers and stuff. The men's parts talked about stuff like "help us to be rivers of pride and prosperity to our families," and "help us to be assets of strength to our families," while the women's parts said, "help us to add a touch of beauty and grace to our families," and "help us to be sources of warmth and encouragement to our families." On the outside it doesn't seem like such a big deal but the wording makes me so angry.

Women are told to ask to be a touch of beauty. That wording sounds gentle and delicate. Men are assets of strength, which makes them sound strong and firm, like pillars. And who said women can't ask God to be both prosperous and warm? It was so sexist. I didn't see the need to divide the prayer into two genders. Both men and women can ask for both things, (though asking to be a touch of beauty for men does seem a bit funny.

The fact that this came from a church is what made me furious. That they're still peddling these stereotypical, outdated gender roles is telling.

Gender roles aren't something people made up. I know a lot of modern women like to think that they can do everything that a man can, which a lot of the time is true, but there are certainly some things that each gender does better than the other gender because of anatomic and physiologic differences in the nervous system and biochemistry. Example, as parents, men tend to be more disciplinarian and women tend to be more nurturing. Why? Because that's what they're inclined to do physiologically.

Also, quit being so sensitive. It really sounds like you are just looking to find something to be angry about.

darkguardian419

Has anyone ever played Cards Against Humanity? :devil:


*munches popcorn*

I love that game!!!

k1ttyk1tty

Sexism in church? Shocking!

“Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." - Timothy 2:11

“…the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.” 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

“Wives, be submissive to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.” Ephesians 5:21-24

“….and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be sensible, chaste, domestic, kind, and submissive to their husbands, that the word of God may not be discredited…. Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect…” Titus 2:4-9

My favorite part of the bible is Deuteronomy.
28If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29he shall pay her father fifty shekelsc of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
This, this is why I can not believe in a god that thinks it's okay to force a rape victim to merry her attacker. Obviously men were/are favored and I can't believe that an all mighty being created two beings in his image yet, one is lesser, and is the reason for evil. It's straight up bull****.

CJisinShape

Hypothetical scenario: you have two cups. One cup is a tall drinking glass, another is a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain. Which do you use to drink water every day? Which do you use for a special occasion? Are they equal? They both hold liquids. They can both do the same things. Equal and different, with the weaker vessel given preferential treatment, and the drinking glass used for its strength.

In my entire life I have never had someone call me a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain and then turn it around into something extremely derogatory.

Do you honestly not see how horrific that statement is? How condescending and extremely arrogant that was?

Me thinks the lady does exaggerate, would you say? Horrific? Poppycock!

Seriously, though, I'm a woman. I'm physically very strong, stronger than some men. So what? You get 3 straight guys living together, it usually smells like feet and cheese. Those three guys get married and their standard of living usually goes way up, whether wife works or not. It's called, "a woman's touch." It's a good thing.

That is incredibly sexist against men.

I have a good idea, let's take all the stereotypes about all kinds of people, and throw them all in a big skip, and then shoot that skip out into space and then nuke it, and start regarding each person as an individual human being, who may or may not have some things in common with other individual human beings.

Incredibly sexist against men? In my defense, what I said was true. Men are amazing. Statue of David? Absolutely gorgeous. Seal Team 6 were all men. Women are amazing. I think our debate about equal access and equal pay in this country has been extrapolated to a point of ridiculousness where just appreciating the different natures and actions of the genders is offensive. Ridiculous, IMO.

Straight men smell? Really?? You've met every straight man whose shared accommodation with other straight men and checked this fact for yourself?

My comment was about stereotypes. Your assertion that straight men smell... well that's a stereotype. Stereotypes are one of the foundations upon which prejudice grows.

According to the stereotypes, I'm a lesbian. Except I'm sexually attracted to men. So, there must be something wrong with the stereotypes.

Well, that explains your anger.

Regarding straight men, I think smelling is a universal trait regardless of sexual preference, once puberty sets in. Its why they make deodorant. A feminine tendency is to make the effort for a more lovely home.

And I bid you adieu. No offence, but you are making really random arguments. Unless you were joking.

I'm not angry. I couldn't really give a damn if people think I'm a lesbian or not (unless it's a man I want to have sex with, then I have a vested interested in him knowing that I'm straight). Some of my best friends (and one of my cousins) are lesbians. I'm just using myself as an example of why stereotypes are wrong, and frankly stupid.

I'm not making random arguments. You just don't want to question whether your "generalisations" are stereotypes.

No, its not that. I said you were angry because you said sexism makes you angry. Sometimes the time spent arguing just isn't worth it.