Who knew sexism in churches still exists.

CJisinShape

Hypothetical scenario: you have two cups. One cup is a tall drinking glass, another is a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain. Which do you use to drink water every day? Which do you use for a special occasion? Are they equal? They both hold liquids. They can both do the same things. Equal and different, with the weaker vessel given preferential treatment, and the drinking glass used for its strength.

In my entire life I have never had someone call me a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain and then turn it around into something extremely derogatory.

Do you honestly not see how horrific that statement is? How condescending and extremely arrogant that was?

Me thinks the lady does exaggerate, would you say? Horrific? Poppycock!

Seriously, though, I'm a woman. I'm physically very strong, stronger than some men. So what? You get 3 straight guys living together, it usually smells like feet and cheese. Those three guys get married and their standard of living usually goes way up, whether wife works or not. It's called, "a woman's touch." It's a good thing.

Cblsplcr

What is truly sad is that if this were a pro-Christianity topic it would be closed. Very sad.

ChelseyDAdams

The wording is pretty lame and cheesy.... I'll definitely give you that!!

BUT...

Personally, I think people sometimes want to think that "equal" means "same" and it doesn't. In general, women have different characteristics than men (not talking body parts here people...that's obvious...). And I'm glad for that, because I have certain characteristics that I am strong in where my hubby is weak and vice versa. We compliment each other well in that regard!

Now, every individual is different, but I don't think there is a problem in embracing that our genders do give us different qualities. As a woman I do tend to be a bit more sensitive, instinctive, intuitive and nurturing than my husband. He tends to be more of a "fixer," more laid-back, blunt and emotionally somewhat oblivious at times, lol. Granted, this may not be the case for every person of course, but just talking generalities/majorities here.

Equal treatment is the way to go, but equal does not mean same!

This attitude is fine as long as it's not to be considered 'the rule'.

For example, I'm female and I'm a fixer. Does that mean I'm not female enough?

Also, how do we know any of this is really related to gender? Maybe it's cultural. How do we know what if any psychological differences we possess without cultural input?

That's why I said that we are different and only gave the qualities that applied to me and my husband. In many ways I'm a total Tom-boy, nothing wrong with that. But I don't think women have to intentionally try to be like men or vice versa, there shouldn't be pressure for that - such as women trying to act more like a male in the workplace to try and get advanced, which I know I did a lot and its too bad that I felt the pressure to.

But those traits I mentioned were just personal - of course yours are different.

Shalaurise

I can't think of a single church, religious organization, ministry, corporation that fronts as a church that isn't dripping with bigotry of some sort. Be it hating those that call their god something else, gender inequalities, sexual preference bias, race... they exist everywhere and those who don't see it are merely turning a blind eye to it.

neandermagnon

What is truly sad is that if this were a pro-Christianity topic it would be closed. Very sad.

I'm pretty sure this thread will be closed down as soon as the mods become aware of its existence. I don't think they are prejudiced against Christians.

PikaKnight

What is truly sad is that if this were a pro-Christianity topic it would be closed. Very sad.

CJisinShape

It's a church whose teachings are based on the Bible. Not sure why you expected gender equality.

Hypothetical scenario: you have two cups. One cup is a tall drinking glass, another is a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain. Which do you use to drink water every day? Which do you use for a special occasion? Are they equal? They both hold liquids. They can both do the same things. But still, there is an undeniable difference between the two.

This particular piece of porcelain popped out two babies without drugs and am working on a pistol squat.

I don't think you're getting full value if you save me for special occasions.

You just proved my point. Go tell your husband that he has to give birth next time.

deksgrl

Sorry, still relatively inexperienced on forums. Are threads about religion taboo or something? Why would it get deleted/locked, whatever locking is?

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines

See #15

It's good to read the rules.

sweetcurlz67

the entire bible does not suppress women... just look at Deborah, a judge. and like another poster stated, you have to take into context the culture at the time the bible was written. things are different now. whereas it says: men, it means today: human kind (all of us)

It's 2014 and we have come a long way, however, we still have a long way to go, imho.

Gotta disagree with you here. If the bible means humanity when it refers to man, what does it mean when there are specific references to woman?

The bible as originally written does repress women to a great extent, like about every time it mentions the relationship between men and women. It's just the more modern interpretations by "man" that make it more inclusive when it comes to gender, not the original wording of the document.

of course! I was speaking in a general sense. one must look at each section in context and apply accordingly.

Thanks!

neandermagnon

Hypothetical scenario: you have two cups. One cup is a tall drinking glass, another is a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain. Which do you use to drink water every day? Which do you use for a special occasion? Are they equal? They both hold liquids. They can both do the same things. Equal and different, with the weaker vessel given preferential treatment, and the drinking glass used for its strength.

In my entire life I have never had someone call me a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain and then turn it around into something extremely derogatory.

Do you honestly not see how horrific that statement is? How condescending and extremely arrogant that was?

Me thinks the lady does exaggerate, would you say? Horrific? Poppycock!

Seriously, though, I'm a woman. I'm physically very strong, stronger than some men. So what? You get 3 straight guys living together, it usually smells like feet and cheese. Those three guys get married and their standard of living usually goes way up, whether wife works or not. It's called, "a woman's touch." It's a good thing.

That is incredibly sexist against men.

I have a good idea, let's take all the stereotypes about all kinds of people, and throw them all in a big skip, and then shoot that skip out into space and then nuke it, and start regarding each person as an individual human being, who may or may not have some things in common with other individual human beings.

MeganAnne89

Hypothetical scenario: you have two cups. One cup is a tall drinking glass, another is a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain. Which do you use to drink water every day? Which do you use for a special occasion? Are they equal? They both hold liquids. They can both do the same things. Equal and different, with the weaker vessel given preferential treatment, and the drinking glass used for its strength.

In my entire life I have never had someone call me a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain and then turn it around into something extremely derogatory.

Do you honestly not see how horrific that statement is? How condescending and extremely arrogant that was?

Me thinks the lady does exaggerate, would you say? Horrific? Poppycock!

Seriously, though, I'm a woman. I'm physically very strong, stronger than some men. So what? You get 3 straight guys living together, it usually smells like feet and cheese. Those three guys get married and their standard of living usually goes way up, whether wife works or not. It's called, "a woman's touch." It's a good thing.

First, the term poppycock is totally not used enough.

And I find it horrific because I am 100% for equality between men and women (and anything in between). I won't disagree that three straight guys living in a house together can be stinky, that is, at times, completely true (but the same can be said for three women), but I really dislike being labeled as something that is delicate and in need of a gentle touch.

You're a strong woman, I'm a strong woman. In the past men have gotten away with blatant sexism because they labeled us as delicate and inferior and not strong enough to do "men's work" so I really take offense to being labeled the same way now. They used those terms to put shields around us and we were not allowed to step out from behind them.

I am and will always be as equally capable as my boyfriend is and the fact that I'm a woman doesn't and won't change that.

likitisplit

It's a church whose teachings are based on the Bible. Not sure why you expected gender equality.

Hypothetical scenario: you have two cups. One cup is a tall drinking glass, another is a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain. Which do you use to drink water every day? Which do you use for a special occasion? Are they equal? They both hold liquids. They can both do the same things. But still, there is an undeniable difference between the two.

This particular piece of porcelain popped out two babies without drugs and am working on a pistol squat.

I don't think you're getting full value if you save me for special occasions.

You just proved my point. Go tell your husband that he has to give birth next time.

Oh. I'm only to be used for the special occasions of giving birth?

YOU tell my husband that he needs to haul around the sand box sand next time. And maybe he can put together the play house too.

I mean, just because I do it better is irrelevant right?

Because I can have babies.

neandermagnon

I can't think of a single church, religious organization, ministry, corporation that fronts as a church that isn't dripping with bigotry of some sort. Be it hating those that call their god something else, gender inequalities, sexual preference bias, race... they exist everywhere and those who don't see it are merely turning a blind eye to it.

The Unitarians.

Never met a bigoted Unitarian.

Actually, I'm going to add Thelemites and Wiccans and a few other kinds of pagans. They're pretty good at not being bigoted.

MeganAnne89

I can't think of a single church, religious organization, ministry, corporation that fronts as a church that isn't dripping with bigotry of some sort. Be it hating those that call their god something else, gender inequalities, sexual preference bias, race... they exist everywhere and those who don't see it are merely turning a blind eye to it.

The Unitarians.

Never met a bigoted Unitarian.

Actually, I'm going to add Thelemites and Wiccans and a few other kinds of pagans. They're pretty good at not being bigoted.

Oh god, where's that Simpsons gif when you need it

Ratrap

To the OP about the previous verses:

You have to take into account the cultural times. In those days the churches were split up Men on one side and Women on the other. The Women would ask questions during the service, because in those time they were not taught the same as men and they would interrupt and therefore they were told not to ask questions. The idea of submissiveness has been distorted. The Feminism in America has come in to turn it into something its not. That and men have taken it and abused it also. Yes a wife is to be submissive to her husband. But the husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church, meaning giving of himself to her and serving her by laying his life down for her and leading her. The submissiveness in the bible does not indicate men being superior but being created as the leader. There is a set up authority: God leads the husband and the husband leads the wife. The wife is expected to submit to her husbands decisions unless it goes against God and His standards. That doesn't mean she gets trampled on but to look to her husband as the leader as she looks to Jesus as a leader. God set it up that way from the beginning. The command goes both ways. The husband has expectations and so does the wife. But people want to have their own independence and therefore do not want to be submissive to anyone especially God. Its not really about sexism as much as it is about independence from how God created things to be and its not really an offense from the church as it is towards God who created things. People want their life apart from the authority of God and It just gets twisted by a fallen nature and distorted into getting upset at a prayer that ask for men to be what they were created to be and women to be created to be. I don't say all this to be arrogant or anything. I really hope it doesn't come off that way. I just thought I would share a different point of view

Well I for one and so very glad that I have my future husband to show me how to live my life. Thank god for that because gosh darnit, I wouldn't know what to do if I didn't have him guiding me.





There are about a million things that I severely disagree with in the paragraph that I have quoted. It literally makes me boil on the inside, I disagree so much. I want to hit someone.

It is not meant to say that women cant make it through life without a man leading her and in no ways is he supposed to tell her how to live her life. He is there to support her and lead her in the ways of God if that is how they as a couple chooses to live their lives. God gives everyone different strengths some women are surely leaders there is no denying that. I am talking in regards to marriage. You can disagree with truth all you want but that does not change truth. Im just trying to say that there is no reason that she should be so upset that a Church has printed a prayer for their congregation to live the way they believe the Bible tells them to live.

PikaKnight

I can't think of a single church, religious organization, ministry, corporation that fronts as a church that isn't dripping with bigotry of some sort. Be it hating those that call their god something else, gender inequalities, sexual preference bias, race... they exist everywhere and those who don't see it are merely turning a blind eye to it.

The Unitarians.

Never met a bigoted Unitarian.

Actually, I'm going to add Thelemites and Wiccans and a few other kinds of pagans. They're pretty good at not being bigoted.

Going to disagree with the Wiccans and Pagans in your example. I've known quite a few that were bigoted against Christian type religions..and even against each other in different groups/covens.

cmcollins001

Well, I said what I wanted to say and heard opinions from all the different perspectives I was curious about. I'm done for the night. You guys enjoy arguing over religion. I'm going to bed.

Meerataila

To the OP about the previous verses:

You have to take into account the cultural times. In those days the churches were split up Men on one side and Women on the other. The Women would ask questions during the service, because in those time they were not taught the same as men and they would interrupt and therefore they were told not to ask questions. The idea of submissiveness has been distorted. The Feminism in America has come in to turn it into something its not. That and men have taken it and abused it also. Yes a wife is to be submissive to her husband. But the husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church, meaning giving of himself to her and serving her by laying his life down for her and leading her. The submissiveness in the bible does not indicate men being superior but being created as the leader. There is a set up authority: God leads the husband and the husband leads the wife. The wife is expected to submit to her husbands decisions unless it goes against God and His standards. That doesn't mean she gets trampled on but to look to her husband as the leader as she looks to Jesus as a leader. God set it up that way from the beginning. The command goes both ways. The husband has expectations and so does the wife. But people want to have their own independence and therefore do not want to be submissive to anyone especially God. Its not really about sexism as much as it is about independence from how God created things to be and its not really an offense from the church as it is towards God who created things. People want their life apart from the authority of God and It just gets twisted by a fallen nature and distorted into getting upset at a prayer that ask for men to be what they were created to be and women to be created to be. I don't say all this to be arrogant or anything. I really hope it doesn't come off that way. I just thought I would share a different point of view

Well I for one and so very glad that I have my future husband to show me how to live my life. Thank god for that because gosh darnit, I wouldn't know what to do if I didn't have him guiding me.





There are about a million things that I severely disagree with in the paragraph that I have quoted. It literally makes me boil on the inside, I disagree so much. I want to hit someone.

It is not meant to say that women cant make it through life without a man leading her and in no ways is he supposed to tell her how to live her life. He is there to support her and lead her in the ways of God if that is how they as a couple chooses to live their lives. God gives everyone different strengths some women are surely leaders there is no denying that. I am talking in regards to marriage. You can disagree with truth all you want but that does not change truth. Im just trying to say that there is no reason that she should be so upset that a Church has printed a prayer for their congregation to live the way they believe the Bible tells them to live.

The problem is, it's just not the truth. I've seen marriages where the male seemed more the leader and some where the woman did, and of course then there is the third rail of this issue: Same gender marriages. :devil:

PrincessTinyheart

Sorry to disappoint, but I won't be dragged into a pointless argument with a stranger over the internet. Have yourself a wonderful day.

You post a topic about religion, make statements that make it blatantly clear you haven't read the bible completely, justify your own version of Christianity with nothing more than personal opinion and personal preference, talk about religion like you were shopping for the best deal on drapes to match your furniture (church with the most views that fit your own)...

and then when someone disagrees, you don't have time to be dragged into a pointless argument with a stranger over the internet...

all the while, posting in a public forum...on the internet...addressing strangers.

Fan-TAStic.

neandermagnon

It's a church whose teachings are based on the Bible. Not sure why you expected gender equality.

Hypothetical scenario: you have two cups. One cup is a tall drinking glass, another is a beautiful, precious piece of porcelain. Which do you use to drink water every day? Which do you use for a special occasion? Are they equal? They both hold liquids. They can both do the same things. But still, there is an undeniable difference between the two.

This particular piece of porcelain popped out two babies without drugs and am working on a pistol squat.

I don't think you're getting full value if you save me for special occasions.

You just proved my point. Go tell your husband that he has to give birth next time.

<--- is Wilma, the female neanderthal in my avatar, a precious piece of porcelain that should only be got out on special occasions?