Cleanse

Iron_Feline

"The lymphatic system parallels the cardiovascular system. The lymphatic system is unique in that it is a 1-way system that returns lymph fluid via vessels to the cardiovascular system for the eventual ELIMINATION OF TOXIC BY-PRODUCTS BY END ORGANS SUCH AS KIDNEY, LIVER, COLON, SKIN AND LUNGS. The lymph [fluid] contains nutrients, oxygen, hormones and fatty acids, as well as TOXINS AND CELLULAR WASTE PRODUCTS, THAT ARE TRANSPORTED TO AND FROM CELLULAR TISSUES."
^^^^^The above quote is taken from http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1899053-overview
Another article, factual, but in more of a magazine article format http://www.livescience.com/26983-lymphatic-system.html

You have repeatedly said "there is no detoxifying or cleansing going on in the body." In fact, the body IS detoxifying and cleansing!
Does it always perform perfectly, with 100% efficiency?
I don't think so! That's a really big job, I'm sure it can get overloaded some times, especially with the food and lifestyle choices people make, or simply the stressful circumstances folks can find themselves in.
Does this mean they should see the dr and that dr will help them feel better? Maybe to get information/his opinion?
If systems in the body are not working well, does that mean they are diseased?
I don't think so!
So if a person is feeling poorly, using terms (which you may hate) such a toxic, want to cleanse, sluggish, or whatever, you just might see them in the forums, asking questions on the matter.

The human body doesn't produce "toxins". Overdose of just about anything ingested can become "toxic", but that's due to intake and dosage and not production.
Please enlighten me to one toxin PRODUCED by the body. Because according to the Journals of Medicine, science, physiology, biology, etc. I haven't encountered one yet.
Sounds like you're caught up more in the semantics. We have a natural "filtering" system that coordinates systematically to remove "waste" from the body. You call it "detoxing and cleansing". Cool. I'll stick to the scientific terminology.

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I don't mind that you don't like the medical definition given above. Nor do I mind that you don't like the topic here. It's also okay if you don't agree with me. I think you contradict the truth, and I don't agree with you, but I don't hate you for it, nor accuse you of anything evil. But this topic is open for discussion and if cleansing/toxicity is on a person's mind and they want to open up a topic about it, that's their privilege. I think a person can help their own process of cleansing, and definitely think that harsh or expensive "cleansing programs" are usually not the way to go. I definitely give an OP the freedom to talk about it and would like to give feedback to them. Hope you have a great day!

Sadly thanks to your ridiculously pointless and unnessesary thread jack I doubt the op will ever come back. :noway:

SideSteel

Does anyone have any evidence that the digestive system becomes compromised sans any medical disorders?

Does anyone have any evidence that this compromise in digestive efficiency NEEDS to be addressed?

Finally, if the answer to the above is yes in both cases, does anyone have evidence as to the solution to this problem?

I posed these on page one when I was strawmanned with the digestive efficiency claim, but it went ignored.

sakuragreenlily

There's no need to detox or cleanse your system and you also do not need to give your organs "a break".

Please see here:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1159755-looking-for-a-detox-cleanse

Why doesn't your body need to detox or cleanse?

Because it's very very efficient at ridding itself of unwanted waste on it's own. When people feel down, low, "yucky", etc., it's usually because they are just LACKING nutrients. Add them and/or increase them and VOILA!

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

What is the body cleansing? How do you know, comprehensively, what makes a person feel down and low?

The body removes waste that's uneeded. It's systematic at that, just like it attacks bacteria and viruses that invade it. Can you help it along? Sure, but one doesn't NEED to "detox or cleanse" to do it. Eating more nutritionally dense food and fiber is a great approach without having to spend extra money.
Comprehensively, people who state they are down and low basically come out and just say it. I guess I'll just take their word for it.

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

So the body has systems that "remove waste (is that your term for "cleanse?"), and these systems always work at 100% efficiency? And your cleanse is to eat "more nutritionally dense food and fiber?" What if that person has constipation and IBS? What should they do in your opinion? Their colon is compromised, and is all that food/fiber going to help?

No, but a commercial "cleanse" isn't going to help, either (well, the fiber in a lot of them, plus increased fluid intake, might help the constipation, but you can do that, again, by eating foods rich in fiber and drinking water). If someone has/suspects they have IBS or some other actual gastrointestinal disorder, they should see their doctor and discuss diagnosis and treatment options. Those sometimes involve special diets or avoiding certain foods, but that's not a cleanse, that's medical treatment, for people with an actual disorder.

So if you go to the dr, they will heal you and you won't have a problem anymore?

Did anyone here say that? If you actually have a medical problem, going to a doctor can get you an actual diagnosis and treatment plan, which, unfortunately for most digestive disorders like IBS and Crohn's, means managing, not curing, as there are no real cures. You will still have "a problem", but the same will be true of a "cleanse" - and a commercial cleanse won't actually be targeting your specific disorder or trigger foods. If you don't have a medical problem, but you feel constipated, a one-time treatment with an over-the-counter laxative will generally fix that, and a diet high in fiber and fluid intake will help it from recurring (increased magnesium intake can help, too). If you lack energy, you probably aren't getting enough sleep, or exercise, or enough vitamins and minerals, or any of the above, or maybe, if it's chronic, you have an underlying medical or psychological condition. The one thing it *isn't* is your gut, unless you have an actual medical issue that prevents you from absorbing the nutrients from your food, which, again, not something that will be fixed by a cleanse.

So if you've gone to the dr and what the dr suggests doesn't bring healing, (or if a person follows all the suggestions you have given and it doesn't resolve the problem), then you have reached the end of the line, can only manage your symptoms, and have no hope for healing?
What do you mean by "cleanse?" What does a "cleanse" do?

Rather than asking questions in the guise of "clarifying" what others are saying (i.e., "So what you're saying is...") and having them come back and say "No! That's not what I'm saying at all." could you please make a point?

sakuragreenlily

Does anyone have any evidence that the digestive system becomes compromised sans any medical disorders?

Does anyone have any evidence that this compromise in digestive efficiency NEEDS to be addressed?

Finally, if the answer to the above is yes in both cases, does anyone have evidence as to the solution to this problem?

I posed these on page one when I was strawmanned with the digestive efficiency claim, but it went ignored.

Hope someone answers you this time rather than just asking a bunch of useless questions. ("Can you PROVE that there's NOT a teapot orbiting Jupiter?! No? Well then how do you know for sure?...")

1princesswarrior

So the body has systems that "remove waste (is that your term for "cleanse?"), and these systems always work at 100% efficiency? And your cleanse is to eat "more nutritionally dense food and fiber?" What if that person has constipation and IBS? What should they do in your opinion? Their colon is compromised, and is all that food/fiber going to help?

No, but a commercial "cleanse" isn't going to help, either (well, the fiber in a lot of them, plus increased fluid intake, might help the constipation, but you can do that, again, by eating foods rich in fiber and drinking water). If someone has/suspects they have IBS or some other actual gastrointestinal disorder, they should see their doctor and discuss diagnosis and treatment options. Those sometimes involve special diets or avoiding certain foods, but that's not a cleanse, that's medical treatment, for people with an actual disorder.

So if you go to the dr, they will heal you and you won't have a problem anymore?

I've had IBS all my life. Let me say the last thing I would do is try some expensive "cleanse" that I don't know what all the ingredients do or what they are. That is not smart at all and a sure fire way to set off an episode.

The only way to treat IBS is through diet and in some cases medication to treat the symptoms (at least in my case). Through 40 years of trial and error I've learned what my trigger foods are and how to avoid them or how much of them I can eat.

JoelleAnn78

<snip>
I don't mind that you don't like the medical definition given above. Nor do I mind that you don't like the topic here. It's also okay if you don't agree with me. I think you contradict the truth, and I don't agree with you, but I don't hate you for it, nor accuse you of anything evil. But this topic is open for discussion and if cleansing/toxicity is on a person's mind and they want to open up a topic about it, that's their privilege. I think a person can help their own process of cleansing, and definitely think that harsh or expensive "cleansing programs" are usually not the way to go. I definitely give an OP the freedom to talk about it and would like to give feedback to them. Hope you have a great day!

ninerbuff

I don't mind that you don't like the medical definition given above. Nor do I mind that you don't like the topic here. It's also okay if you don't agree with me. I think you contradict the truth, and I don't agree with you, but I don't hate you for it, nor accuse you of anything evil. But this topic is open for discussion and if cleansing/toxicity is on a person's mind and they want to open up a topic about it, that's their privilege. I think a person can help their own process of cleansing, and definitely think that harsh or expensive "cleansing programs" are usually not the way to go. I definitely give an OP the freedom to talk about it and would like to give feedback to them. Hope you have a great day!

No one's questioned the OP's intent. Feedback was just given on "cleansing". Don't know why you think that giving them accurate information is deterring them from participating.
Whether you agree on terminology is a matter of choice. As I've mentioned, I'll refer to actual Journals of Medicine rather than articles on alternative medicine. Don't know why you think I contradicted anything, but POV is the probable reason.
I'd still like to know of at least one actual "toxin" that's PRODUCED by the body though.

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

MKEgal

Anyone know of any easy cleanses that actually work?

Soap and water.

The eat a balanced diet and let your body do it's job cleanse.

Lysol does wonders.

Eat Fiber, Drink Water. Your butt does the rest

Colonoscopy prep. That'll clean you right the hell out.

The most truthful and helpful answers ever.
I love you guys!

MKEgal

MinMin poses yet another strawman, showing yet again that s/he isn't interested in science & truth, only in promoting her/his ideas (scam of 'cleansing').

So the body has systems that "remove waste (is that your term for "cleanse?"), and these systems always work at 100% efficiency? And your cleanse is to eat "more nutritionally dense food and fiber?" What if that person has constipation and IBS? What should they do in your opinion? Their colon is compromised, and is all that food/fiber going to help?

Yes, the body removes its own waste. You can call that 'cleansing' if you choose, but the generally agreed-upon medical term is waste elimination.
Nothing ever works at 100% efficiency, but that doesn't mean that you should put a slurry of coffee (or unknown chemicals, bought off the internet) up your butt.
No, his suggestion of eating better food & more fiber & water is the common-sense solution to constipation which works for most people.
If someone has a disease they should see their doctor & follow her recommendations, not put coffee up their butt.

So we've established:
that "cleanse: is not a well defined term.
that the body does cleanse itself, and needs to cleanse.
And now your suggesting that the colon is an area that needs to be cleansed, and you recommend a laxative, more fiber, excessive spicy foods as a means of cleansing the colon?

Correct that 'cleanse' is not well-defined, and in fact not defined at all as you're using it (ridding the body of filthy nasty toxins).
The body does remove waste material. That's what the liver & kidneys & colon are designed to do. They don't need any special help in most healthy people.
If someone has a disorder/constipation, yes, drinking more water and eating more fiber will usually be enough to set things right again.
I see nowhere that someone recommended spicy foods, or 'cleansing' the colon, except you.

I don't think the term cleanse has been defined here yet

So tell us what you're using it to mean.
Or are you just here to argue and make strawman arguments & show off your other logical fallacies.
(Pardon, your fallacy is showing.)

ninerbuff

Does anyone have any evidence that the digestive system becomes compromised sans any medical disorders?

Does anyone have any evidence that this compromise in digestive efficiency NEEDS to be addressed?

Finally, if the answer to the above is yes in both cases, does anyone have evidence as to the solution to this problem?

I posed these on page one when I was strawmanned with the digestive efficiency claim, but it went ignored.

I wait patiently as you wait for a response.

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

jessilee119

Coffee helps too.

MKEgal

I'd still like to know of at least one actual "toxin" that's PRODUCED by the body though.

http://www.webmd.com/hepatitis/tc/what-the-liver-does-topic-overview

A healthy liver does the following:
It removes bilirubin, ammonia, and other toxins from the blood.

So even the medical establishment is using the term, but they use it very narrowly & specifically and give examples of what they mean by it.

From this link posted earlier:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-detox-scam-how-to-spot-it-and-how-to-avoid-it/

The skin, kidneys, lymphatic system, our gastrointestinal system, and most importantly, the liver make up our astoundingly complex and sophisticated intrinsic detoxification system.

QueenBishOTUniverse

Does anyone have any evidence that the digestive system becomes compromised sans any medical disorders?

Does anyone have any evidence that this compromise in digestive efficiency NEEDS to be addressed?

Finally, if the answer to the above is yes in both cases, does anyone have evidence as to the solution to this problem?

I posed these on page one when I was strawmanned with the digestive efficiency claim, but it went ignored.

I wait patiently as you wait for a response.

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

After more then a decade of teaching biological sciences in a particular geographic area, take my word for it, you're in a prove a negative feedback loop....:laugh: May whatever deity you ascribe to have mercy on whatever it is you believe animates your corpus.

VeryKatie

So "we don't need to cleanse, the body cleanses itself" and yet, you say, "there is no detoxifying or cleansing going on in the body?"

I haven't mentioned anything about the body "cleansing" itself. I gave you the straight up answer of "waste excrement". And stand by my statement that there is no "detoxing or cleansing" on the body going on.

What about the lymph system?

In layman's terms, it's the circulatory system of the body.

What is it's function?

To circulate fluids throughout the body.

Does it always operate perfectly?

Not if someone is suffering from a disease like lymphoma or disorders like lymphedema. Where does this have to do with "detoxing or cleansing"?
You're looking to argue about "detoxing or cleansing". So please enlighten me on what your definitions of these two words are when relating to physiology. And how the body systematically goes about "detoxing and cleansing".
I can't seem to answer whatever understanding you have of how physiology works.

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

What is "waste excrement?"

Feces.

Do you think the body only expels waste from the colon?

No because people also urinate.

When you hear the word "cleanse" do you only think of colon cleansing?

Nope. I think of how people are duped into believing that "cleansing" removes toxins from the body.

Don't the body's cells rid themselves of waste?

Krebs cycle.

Where does the waste go?

Filtered through liver and/or kidneys.

What is the main function of the lymph system?

Circulation

If a system is not working perfectly, does that mean it is diseased?

Not necessarily. There are disorders and deficiencies that can impede efficiency.

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

"The lymphatic system parallels the cardiovascular system. The lymphatic system is unique in that it is a 1-way system that returns lymph fluid via vessels to the cardiovascular system for the eventual ELIMINATION OF TOXIC BY-PRODUCTS BY END ORGANS SUCH AS KIDNEY, LIVER, COLON, SKIN AND LUNGS. The lymph [fluid] contains nutrients, oxygen, hormones and fatty acids, as well as TOXINS AND CELLULAR WASTE PRODUCTS, THAT ARE TRANSPORTED TO AND FROM CELLULAR TISSUES."
^^^^^The above quote is taken from http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1899053-overview
Another article, factual, but in more of a magazine article format http://www.livescience.com/26983-lymphatic-system.html

You have repeatedly said "there is no detoxifying or cleansing going on in the body." In fact, the body IS detoxifying and cleansing!
Does it always perform perfectly, with 100% efficiency?
I don't think so! That's a really big job, I'm sure it can get overloaded some times, especially with the food and lifestyle choices people make, or simply the stressful circumstances folks can find themselves in.
Does this mean they should see the dr and that dr will help them feel better? Maybe to get information/his opinion?
If systems in the body are not working well, does that mean they are diseased?
I don't think so!
So if a person is feeling poorly, using terms (which you may hate) such a toxic, want to cleanse, sluggish, or whatever, you just might see them in the forums, asking questions on the matter.

Guys! Guys! She's answering her own questions!!!!
I guess that means she had no purpose in posting ALL of those other messages and could have JUST PUT THIS in the first place.

Sarauk2sf

Does anyone have any evidence that the digestive system becomes compromised sans any medical disorders?

Does anyone have any evidence that this compromise in digestive efficiency NEEDS to be addressed?

Finally, if the answer to the above is yes in both cases, does anyone have evidence as to the solution to this problem?

I posed these on page one when I was strawmanned with the digestive efficiency claim, but it went ignored.

I wait patiently as you wait for a response.

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Scoot over, I am going to wait with you!

Ldonahue921

Perhaps OP would like to join the discussion?

Samstan101

I don't mind that you don't like the medical definition given above. Nor do I mind that you don't like the topic here. It's also okay if you don't agree with me. I think you contradict the truth, and I don't agree with you, but I don't hate you for it, nor accuse you of anything evil. But this topic is open for discussion and if cleansing/toxicity is on a person's mind and they want to open up a topic about it, that's their privilege. I think a person can help their own process of cleansing, and definitely think that harsh or expensive "cleansing programs" are usually not the way to go. I definitely give an OP the freedom to talk about it and would like to give feedback to them. Hope you have a great day!

No one's questioned the OP's intent. Feedback was just given on "cleansing". Don't know why you think that giving them accurate information is deterring them from participating.
Whether you agree on terminology is a matter of choice. As I've mentioned, I'll refer to actual Journals of Medicine rather than articles on alternative medicine. Don't know why you think I contradicted anything, but POV is the probable reason.
I'd still like to know of at least one actual "toxin" that's PRODUCED by the body though.

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Agree! If 'alternative medicine' worked it'd just be called medicine.

j4nash

Perhaps OP would like to join the discussion?

Something tells me she doesn't post much.

teenie_71

just no