Fast Food Workers Strikes = Win for better health

pepperpat64

One thing people need to remember, which I mentioned in one of my earliest posts on this thread, is that you also have to take into account the value of the benefits, if any, you receive with your job. This includes not just the obvious health insurance, but paid leave time, sick time, matching contributions to retirement plans, etc. All these things combined with your salary make up your total compensation package. So a worker might get a fairly low salary but receive excellent benefits, which can make up for low pay. Government jobs are often like this, so to compare an EMT's or police officer's salary to that of an entry-level retail job is just ludicrous.

Now consider this in light of the fast food workers' demands. Not only do front-line, entry level workers usually make only minimum wage, they also rarely work more than 20 hours a week or get any of the aforementioned benefits. Imagine being very ill but not being able to call in sick because you will lose a day's pay. Imagine really wanting to take a week's vacation to spend with your kids in summer, but not being able to because it means you can't make the rent or electricity payment. Imagine wanting to work 40 hours a week but your boss won't give you the time - "company policy." Many of the benefits those of us who have progressed in our careers take for granted are simply not available to FF workers, no matter how hard they work. What might seem like an unreasonably high wage increase request on their parts isn't really so high when you consider they get none of those other benefits.

We can argue until we turn purple whether minwage jobs were or weren't meant to support families, provide the bare necessities, give teenagers extra spending money for college, and so on, but the fact remains that the majority of people in these jobs TODAY aren't teens. They're over age 25, often have families, and about a third of them have at least some college education, including earning a degree. Are there slackers who work in fast food? Of course there are, just like there are slackers in any industry, both high and low wage ones. But sadly, in today's society, working your butt off to get ahead in life doesn't always cut it anymore.

smittybuilt19

I don't really see a problem with people striking to try and negotiate a better wage. That's just a negotiation tactic. I don't think they will see it a $15/hour paycheck any time soon, but they're free to ask for it. Even without organized labor, you're free to ask for a raise, look to take a job next door if they're willing to offer you a better salary package, and so on. I would have a much bigger problem if people were pushing for a nationwide $15 hour minimum wage, but realistically we aren't anywhere near that happening nor would it be good for our economy (quite to the contrary, it'd be nothing short of disastrous).

Honestly I'd leave "deserves" and what's "fair" out of it. It's business. Fast food companies are going to do what's in the best interests of their shareholders - for that matter, a publicly traded company like McDonalds has a fiduciary duty to do so. As an employee or a potential employee, you need to watch out for yourself and do what's in your own best interests. If you don't like your wage, ask for a better one or find a better job. You aren't obliged to keep showing up to work and settling for what they're currently giving you. If you can't find a better wage for your skill set, well, odds are your wage wasn't as unfair as you thought it was and if you want to move up, what you need to change is your skill set.

But at the end of the day, there will always be bottom-tier jobs. If you put your life on a trajectory where you're trying to raise a family working those jobs, you're going to have a rough go of it. But that also serves as an incentive for people to apply themselves and to avoid that trajectory through life. There is still ample opportunity in this country for people to get a good education and there are still good jobs out there for the people who do well in school and work hard.

That pretty much...scratch that.


That sums it up.

stealthq

I make a decent living.. I have a masters level education, 3 years in my field. When I started I made 11 dollars and hour...worked up a few bucks since then. I have a baby- now 6 year old when I went to college. I'm paying off my loan debt.

My husband who is a United State Marines after 10 years STILL serving, only makes about 38 grand a year WITH a family... someone who TRAINED FROM BOOTCAMP and serving, barely makes 20 grand a year starting out for the first few years, unless they marry and have a child- then it's a little more... fair for someone who is giving their life to their country, while fast food workers demand 15$? Not fair.
(And we don't receive "FREE" healthcare, its not free, we pay for it monthly and we pay taxes which pretty much pay ourselves... plus we pay for dental and almost 50% of that out of pocket for anything it doesn't cover.)

I interview, hire, train C.N.A's.. they do not make $15 an hour...some should, its a dirty job. They work with multiple agencies to make ends meet...you meet a few who demand a lot of money (15$ isn't far from my wages ) If any 2 jobs that I see deserve an increase-- it would be those.

We keep seeing this argument. "I don't make much money, neither should they."

Maybe instead of trying to keep others down you should be fighting for better wages too.

Agree here. Everyone seems to be fighting the wrong fight here. The real culprits are the CEO's, VP's, etc. who are making MILLIONS of the backs of the work of their employees. Now don't get me wrong, I'm NOT against people making money, but when someone makes $200 million a year (how much does one really need to live?) you gotta wonder how pay is really being doled out by corporations. Remember board members and investors help to decide how people are payed regardless of where they work.

A.C.E. Certified Group Fitness and Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Tell you what. You take away the CEO and VPs that guided a company into a multi-billion dollar entity, or even keeps them at that level ('cause they're not paying salaries of hundreds of millions a year unless they are at least that successful) and replace them with those willing to take a couple hundred grand or so. See how quickly that company fails, how many people are then out of work.

There's a reason they are paid what they are - it's called demand. If you could find people to do those jobs just as well who would work for significantly less, then they would be replaced. Just like I would be replaced if my company found someone that could do my job as well or better for less.

You could just as easily say employees are making money on the backs of company leadership. Without a somewhat successful company, there are no jobs for those employees. No salary. No raise. No benefits. Let the employee go out and start and run their own company if they want. Or if the leaderships' salaries are offensive, let them go work for a smaller, less successful business.

jasonmh630

Today I learned that unskilled workers shouldn't be allowed to survive. Maybe it would be simpler to just execute high school dropouts and the bottom 10% of each graduating class...

No, we should reinstitute slavery or at the very least, indentured servitude for those who can't achieve a certain skill or education level. After all, it worked so well pre-1860.

On another tangent, slavery is not dead as we're lead to believe. Human Trafficking is a $9.5 billion industry in the US alone, as of 2012. There were 20-30 million slaves worldwide as of 2012, with only 1-2% ever being rescued. About 70% are women and children. That's quite disturbing.

365andstillalive

The reality of the situation is, minimum wage was a social institution that was constructed to make sure that people could afford food, shelter, and other basic necessities.

If I were to work full time at minimum wage (I'm Canadian, so bear that in mind, since we make more than Americans), I would be making approximately $1650 a month before taxes.

I'm a university graduate (woop-dee-do) with a dual honours degree -- I owe, approximately $30,000 in student loans because I do come from a place of privilege (ie. the middle class) and my parents were able to finance a portion of my tuition. If I didn't have a car, and therefore the expenses that come with it (insurance, maintenance, gas), with a roommate, I can afford to live on minimum wage and re-pay my debt (over the course of the next 10-12 years that is).

The reality is, that having an education (at least in the Canadian economy) is simply a great way to coat yourself in debt. If I were working a full time minimum wage position, I'd probably be doing okay, but the reality is, they actually don't exist in the majority of sectors, including fast food. In the past two years, I haven't been to a single full time interview, yet I put out over 100 resumes per month. The rate of unemployment among those 16-30 is twice that of the general population in Canada -- which is a nice way of saying, look at my fancy piece of paper and the complete lack of jobs to apply it to.

I am incredibly fortunate that I've found a high paying part time job, I make what for most people would be a staggering wage (approximately $20 an hour) however, I work on a contract basis, part time, and often go 4-6 weeks between contracts. I have no medical benefits, no life insurance, nothing. It's the only job I can find right now, because I can't sacrifice the availability I give that job, for 10 hours at a part time fast food or retail job (both of which I have experience in) and still pay my bills.

I am all for a raise in minimum wage to meet the standard of living that is considered adequate; pay as you go phone (you do need one to hold a job), enough money to cover bus fare, shelter, adequate nutritional food, and a small amount for health care (because while it's often classed as free, try filling a prescription without additional coverage and not gagging at the cost) and I do actually believe that minimum wage should vary from area to area; living in a city like Vancouver or Toronto, your liveable wage is higher than living in medium sized towns yet most people struggling don't have the financial capital to move -- I certainly couldn't come up with first and last right now.

I don't expect minimum wage to reach $15 anytime in the near future (or even my lifetime potentially), but is an increase due for those who are born into situations from which they can't escape because they don't have the family financial capital of the middle class? Hell yes. It's fine and dandy to sit at you computer and say that the people who don't have post-secondary education did it to themselves, but the reality is, many didn't. Minimum wage should increase gradually over time to meet things like inflation and give small and large business owners time to adjust; even if we saw increases of $0.25 each year for the next eight years to bring minimum wage up by a total of $2, the people who truly have to live off of it because there is no other option would be able to sustain themselves slightly better and maybe things like a college degree wouldn't be so laughable.

rml_16

On another tangent, slavery is not dead as we're lead to believe. Human Trafficking is a $9.5 billion industry in the US alone, as of 2012. There's 20-30 million slaves worldwide. About 70% are women and children. That's quite disturbing.

Ever wonder how in nearly every town in America there's a Chinese restaurant staffed by Asian people who barely speak English?

Those are not business owners who've come to this country to start a new life. Yeah those are modern day slaves.

I don't eat Chinese food, but we have a few Indian restaurants like that. A friend of mine worked in one. All the Indians who worked there were related to each other. And they don't allow the white waiters and waitresses they hire to keep their tips -- they take them and distribute them among each other. (They do pay more than the server minimum wage in order to get away with this, but they also don't tell patrons what they're doing.)

rml_16

If MW increases, the price of goods and services will also increase. Nobody will actually have more money because they will be paying more for the things they buy. My prediction would be that if fast food employees got 15 an hour the price of food would go up to make sure the company doesn't lose money. That 2$ burger will 6$ or more. Who is going to pay that? Fast food restaurants will lose money because people won't pay the higher prices and then the fast food restaurant will start firing workers because they don't have the business to warrant that number of employees.

So Mcdonald's quarterly profit margins go from 19% to 15%. Boo frickin hoo. The CEO's still a billionaire.

Do you happen to have a pension or any other investments tied to the stock market?

I'm pretty sure McDonald's is publicly traded and its profit margin affects things like how much the stock is worth and dividends, which you might rely on one day and many people currently do rely on.

It isn't just about CEO pay. These corporations have stockholders who expect results.

pepperpat64

Tell you what. You take away the CEO and VPs that guided a company into a multi-billion dollar entity, or even keeps them at that level ('cause they're not paying salaries of hundreds of millions a year unless they are at least that successful) and replace them with those willing to take a couple hundred grand or so. See how quickly that company fails, how many people are then out of work.

There's a reason they are paid what they are - it's called demand. If you could find people to do those jobs just as well who would work for significantly less, then they would be replaced. Just like I would be replaced if my company found someone that could do my job as well or better for less.

You could just as easily say employees are making money on the backs of company leadership. Without a somewhat successful company, there are no jobs for those employees. No salary. No raise. No benefits. Let the employee go out and start and run their own company if they want. Or if the leaderships' salaries are offensive, let them go work for a smaller, less successful business.

Costco, anyone?

FancyPantsFran

I have to say this thread is very interesting and has reveled a lot. Many people are very jealous of others success. They don't feel they deserve it. They want to take from one group and give it to another just based on what they perceive to be fair. I wonder how the same people would feel If I thought it would be fair to give some of their salary to other employees in the company ... to be fair you are making more then so and so and he /deserves more money.

Sad but this thread is just a microcosm of what is going on in our society today.

A lot of pitting one group against another in the name of fairness.

pepperpat64

One thing people need to remember, which I mentioned in one of my earliest posts on this thread, is that you also have to take into account the value of the benefits, if any, you receive with your job. This includes not just the obvious health insurance, but paid leave time, sick time, matching contributions to retirement plans, etc. All these things combined with your salary make up your total compensation package. So a worker might get a fairly low salary but receive excellent benefits, which can make up for low pay. Government jobs are often like this, so to compare an EMT's or police officer's salary to that of an entry-level retail job is just ludicrous.

Now consider this in light of the fast food workers' demands. Not only do front-line, entry level workers usually make only minimum wage, they also rarely work more than 20 hours a week or get any of the aforementioned benefits. Imagine being very ill but not being able to call in sick because you will lose a day's pay. Imagine really wanting to take a week's vacation to spend with your kids in summer, but not being able to because it means you can't make the rent or electricity payment. Imagine wanting to work 40 hours a week but your boss won't give you the time - "company policy." Many of the benefits those of us who have progressed in our careers take for granted are simply not available to FF workers, no matter how hard they work. What might seem like an unreasonably high wage increase request on their parts isn't really so high when you consider they get none of those other benefits.

We can argue until we turn purple whether minwage jobs were or weren't meant to support families, provide the bare necessities, give teenagers extra spending money for college, and so on, but the fact remains that the majority of people in these jobs TODAY aren't teens. They're over age 25, often have families, and about a third of them have at least some college education, including earning a degree. Are there slackers who work in fast food? Of course there are, just like there are slackers in any industry, both high and low wage ones. But sadly, in today's society, working your butt off to get ahead in life doesn't always cut it anymore.

First I'll say, I don't work for a government agency and don't get free health care. I do contribute to it. So because I have healthcare I can't feel like I'm under valued? You can easily look into what it takes to get certified to do EMS and go do it. It doesn't take much. What does take work is getting the experience and being skilled enough to secure a spot in a higher level agency. If someone does retail and isn't happy with the pay and lack of benefits they can come do what I do. I've told people to look into it and many times I'm told "No way, I couldn't do you job, I can't see all the blood and sick people or death...it's rough". But then at the same time it's okay for that person to say they would rather stay in retail or fast food but they should get paid what I do?

I'm sorry, but you've lost me here. I'm not sure how what I wrote engendered this response. Really.

bugaboo_sue

I have to say this thread is very interesting and has reveled a lot. Many people are very jealous of others success. They don't feel they deserve it. They want to take from one group and give it to another just based on what they perceive to be fair. I wonder how the same people would feel If I thought it would be fair to give some of their salary to other employees in the company ... to be fair you are making more then so and so and he /deserves more money.

Sad but this thread is just a microcosm of what is going on in our society today.

A lot of pitting one group against another in the name of fairness.

I agree with this. I had a response pages back about what it takes to start a business, the money time and money, the years of no profit because you're putting everything back into what you're starting and got scoffed at. Obviously there aren't a lot of business owners that are responding to this topic. If there were then there would be a lot more understanding instead of outrage and the "It's not FAAAAIIIIIIR!"

Not every entrepreneur came from money.

RGv2

I have re-thought my postion....in order to have an apartment, food, electric and the other neceissities of life in New York City.....to have all needs met....the minimum wage should be raised to 50K....that's a fair wage.....

:huh:

And in about 45 other states, that's a Junior E.E., M.E.

magerum

Only read OP. Ridiculous.

FancyPantsFran

I have to say this thread is very interesting and has reveled a lot. Many people are very jealous of others success. They don't feel they deserve it. They want to take from one group and give it to another just based on what they perceive to be fair. I wonder how the same people would feel If I thought it would be fair to give some of their salary to other employees in the company ... to be fair you are making more then so and so and he /deserves more money.

Sad but this thread is just a microcosm of what is going on in our society today.

A lot of pitting one group against another in the name of fairness.

I agree with this. I had a response pages back about what it takes to start a business, the money time and money, the years of no profit because you're putting everything back into what you're starting and got scoffed at. Obviously there aren't a lot of business owners that are responding to this topic. If there were then there would be a lot more understanding instead of outrage and the "It's not FAAAAIIIIIIR!"

Not every entrepreneur came from money.

You are right on the money...
People don't realize what it takes to start and run your own biz. If they did they wouldn't be so quick to give other peoples money away.

Slacker16

Today I learned that unskilled workers shouldn't be allowed to survive. Maybe it would be simpler to just execute high school dropouts and the bottom 10% of each graduating class...

(...)

You have to make it happen. You can't expect life to just keep giving you so we can all say we are "equal".

It's not a question of equality, it's a question of performance.

I'm as big a fan of the free market as any, but my personal experience has consistently been that people do best when they're under some pressure but not to the point of anxiety.

Applying this to wages, unskilled labour shouldn't allow a luxurious lifestyle, but it should allow for food and shelter. My guess is that they're demanding 15$ to get 10.

For the record, I think it's effed up that you needed to get a second job as an EMT.