Fast Food Workers Strikes = Win for better health
Replies
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What we should be doing is APPLYING more to minimum wage by taking away retirement from Congress. Win, win.
If they were either millionaires to start with or get lobbying jobs after they leave Congress, they definitely don't need retirement benefits!0 -
What people don't understand is that cost of living and inflation rise independently of that to begin with and if wages don't rise accordingly people end up with less money because everything is more expensive but they still make the same amount of money.
Only undereducated people don't understand that.
Educated people understand the actual impact a higher minimum wage does, both in model form and in practical terms. Simply put, it allows people a higher quality of life, and doesn't have a tangible impact on cost of living.
However, it's far more politically convenient to crow that it will cause an increase in cost of living. Granted, it may increase the cost of a big mac for the short term.
Really? You honestly believe that if the minimum wage is increased that companies won't in turn raise their prices to offset the cost of paying allllll these people more?
Must be nice living in your bubble.
Judging by your posts on a couple other threads, you're the one living in a fantasy bubble land.
I'd invite you to take a macroeconomics class. You'll learn that pretty quickly. There's a couple factors, small, easy to overlook things like competition, market forces, and simple innovation just to point to a couple basic economic forces that would prevent an "ermagerd-price-ageddon!"
And you probably also think that there's no such thing as inflation and that the dollar isn't going to collapse either.
I don't live in a fantasy bubble land. I live in reality.0 -
I don't buy the argument that privilege or money is required to get an education. Anyone can go to a community college. The poorer you are, the more grant money you get. Most community colleges provide child care, which is also free to low income students.
Except that the more taxes are cut, the less grant money is available for low-income students.0 -
What people don't understand is that cost of living and inflation rise independently of that to begin with and if wages don't rise accordingly people end up with less money because everything is more expensive but they still make the same amount of money.
Only undereducated people don't understand that.
Educated people understand the actual impact a higher minimum wage does, both in model form and in practical terms. Simply put, it allows people a higher quality of life, and doesn't have a tangible impact on cost of living.
However, it's far more politically convenient to crow that it will cause an increase in cost of living. Granted, it may increase the cost of a big mac for the short term.
So why not make minimum wage $30 per hour then, if it doesn't effect the cost of living? And when has a price increase ever been short term?
You're not asking a real question with your first question. Your second: Often. Just look for a half minute on the commodities market.
Most small businesses scrape by and struggle year to year to stay in business. Think of a convenience store that employs 5 people and makes pennies of profit on most of its products. Now impose a $2 per hour labor wage increase. For full time employees, that is about $4,000 a year each, or $20,000 a year total. A $20,000 hit could send a business under. So where does that extra money come from? Cut an employee altogether or make a few of them part time, maybe hire one under the table, and raise the prices of your goods.
You aren't dealing with wholesale commodities, you are dealing in retail sales, so that 5 cent increase on a candy bar or 10 cent increase on a gallon of milk will be imposed by the store owner in response to the labor market, not by the commodity market, and it will be permanently that high, because there will never be a repeal on a minimum wage increase.0 -
What people don't understand is that cost of living and inflation rise independently of that to begin with and if wages don't rise accordingly people end up with less money because everything is more expensive but they still make the same amount of money.
Only undereducated people don't understand that.
Educated people understand the actual impact a higher minimum wage does, both in model form and in practical terms. Simply put, it allows people a higher quality of life, and doesn't have a tangible impact on cost of living.
However, it's far more politically convenient to crow that it will cause an increase in cost of living. Granted, it may increase the cost of a big mac for the short term.
Really? You honestly believe that if the minimum wage is increased that companies won't in turn raise their prices to offset the cost of paying allllll these people more?
Must be nice living in your bubble.
Judging by your posts on a couple other threads, you're the one living in a fantasy bubble land.
I'd invite you to take a macroeconomics class. You'll learn that pretty quickly. There's a couple factors, small, easy to overlook things like competition, market forces, and simple innovation just to point to a couple basic economic forces that would prevent an "ermagerd-price-ageddon!"
Quite, if you raise the price of your product, less people will buy it...0 -
I don't buy the argument that privilege or money is required to get an education. Anyone can go to a community college. The poorer you are, the more grant money you get. Most community colleges provide child care, which is also free to low income students.
Except that the more taxes are cut, the less grant money is available for low-income students.
I put myself through community college/nursing school working a minimum wage job and paying for all tuition and books out of pocket -- no loans or grants. My family was not particularly supportive and my generation (sister and cousins) were the first to go to college.
It can be done if you want it bad enough, but it is HARD, unlike working a mindless fast food job, which sucks.0 -
I don't buy the argument that privilege or money is required to get an education. Anyone can go to a community college. The poorer you are, the more grant money you get. Most community colleges provide child care, which is also free to low income students.
Except that the more taxes are cut, the less grant money is available for low-income students.
I put myself through community college/nursing school working a minimum wage job and paying for all tuition and books out of pocket -- no loans or grants. My family was not particularly supportive and my generation (sister and cousins) were the first to go to college.
It can be done if you want it bad enough, but it is HARD, unlike working a mindless fast food job, which sucks.
I paid for my college degrees with a combination of work, grants, scholarships, and as a last resort, loans. But you and I are of a generation when college costs weren't absurdly high, grant money was relatively easy to get, and student loans weren't the domain of for-profit banks. Much has changed since then. IMO, it shouldn't be *hard* for anyone to get an education of whatever sort they want, if they want one.0 -
I don't buy the argument that privilege or money is required to get an education. Anyone can go to a community college. The poorer you are, the more grant money you get. Most community colleges provide child care, which is also free to low income students.
Except that the more taxes are cut, the less grant money is available for low-income students.
I put myself through community college/nursing school working a minimum wage job and paying for all tuition and books out of pocket -- no loans or grants. My family was not particularly supportive and my generation (sister and cousins) were the first to go to college.
It can be done if you want it bad enough, but it is HARD, unlike working a mindless fast food job, which sucks.
Bully for you - what if you aren't 'college' clever?
Do you deserve to live in the gutter?0 -
Short story: Everyone is screwed. Including the government.Exactly. I have a Bachelor's degree and 6 years of experience in my field. I live in a rural area and make less than $10 an hour more than the current minimum wage. If minimum wage goes up by $7 (here in NY), the value of my job goes in the toilet.
Last year they raised minimum wage in NY. Due to inflation, the cost of my childcare and groceries went but my salary stayed the same. So who's really getting screwed here?0 -
I get tired of hearing that minimum wages is not 'meant to' pay a living wage. The reality is people are forced to use these jobs to support themselves because they can't get anything else that pays better. It's a cycle that people cannot escape from. People should not have to live in poverty to line the pockets of executives and shareholders who contribute nothing. At least the guy flipping burgers is making someone lunch. A shareholder does zilch but take money from the company and yet it's somehow more important to make them happy than the people who's labor makes the company run.
A shareholder invests money ie capital into the company... They take a risk whenever investing. So they don't have a right to expect a return on their investment??? If the shareholders didn't invest their money they guy flipping the burgers in wouldn't have a job...
Its really sad that the only fall back position is the evil corporations and shareholdrs line their pockets off the backs of the minimum wage worker.....
People can always work hard to change their circumstances. Yes that's not easy to do but can be done...It has been proven time and time again. Its Hard and unfortunately most people don't want to wok that hard its easier to blame others for their circumstances0 -
A lot of UNSKILLED workers are unskilled because they were born into poverty and never had the opportunity to go to school to learn a SKILL that would enable them to get a higher paying job.
So what are they supposed to do, work three minimum wage jobs just to get by?
Everyone has the right to make enough money to flipping survive on. I work two jobs, I make more than minimum wage, I live alone, and I am barely getting by.
I don't know about where you are, but in Dallas there's free job training for nearly every job you can think of. Few people are taking advantage of it. It's hard to have sympathy when people work at McDonald's, whine about the pay and then don't go take any of these great free courses the state offers.0 -
I don't buy the argument that privilege or money is required to get an education. Anyone can go to a community college. The poorer you are, the more grant money you get. Most community colleges provide child care, which is also free to low income students.
Except that the more taxes are cut, the less grant money is available for low-income students.
No, absolutely not. There are a lot of government programs that provide assistance, and you can work a minimum wage job like I did and barely scrape by.
You can also learn on the job, or work your way up from the bottom at a minimum wage job.
My husband does not have a college education, nor did he receive special job skills training. He found an entry level position that requires hard physical work, passing a drug screen, and taking a job-sponsored course to prepare for a licensing exam. He makes much more than minimum wage, although he works outside all day in 110 degree heat, which is much HARDER than working at McDonalds, and many people would not be willing to do it.
I put myself through community college/nursing school working a minimum wage job and paying for all tuition and books out of pocket -- no loans or grants. My family was not particularly supportive and my generation (sister and cousins) were the first to go to college.
It can be done if you want it bad enough, but it is HARD, unlike working a mindless fast food job, which sucks.
Bully for you - what if you aren't 'college' clever?
Do you deserve to live in the gutter?
Edit: My post didn't save...
Not at all.
My husband has no college degree. He did not have any special job skills, other than cooking in restaurant kitchens, when he applied for his current position. He is a very hard worker, can pass a drug screen, and was willing to learn on the job and study at home to pass a licensing exam. He works outside all day in 110 degree heat and makes quite a bit more than minimum wage, but it is a very HARD job, unlike the time I spent working in fast food.
There are many ways to work yourself up in life. In fact, management positions at fast food restaurants pay relatively well and have decent benefits packages. Many managers are promoted from within and provided job training.0 -
For the record, minimum wages over time and what they're worth adjusted for inflation.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774473.html0 -
The fact is that the minimum wage has stayed the same, while the purchasing power of the dollar has gone down. See the chart in the link below which compares what the minimum wage was at various times at "current level" dollars:
http://www.dol.gov/minwage/minwage-gdp-history.htm
The cost of living has already increased incredibly since 2008 -- housing, food, fuel, you name it, while wages have remained stagnant. Those who argue that prices will have to go way up again are ignoring the fact that prices have already gone way up, and not because companies are paying workers more. If one sticks to the argument that if wages rise, prices will rise, so we shouldn'[t raise wages, then we would never raise wages. Why don't we just pay our workers what they pay in Bangladesh -- that will keep the price of everything low?
By the way, in Mass., many of my associates who were small business owners actually paid above minimum wage because they had an interest in keeping their employees and insuring the same level of continuity and service to their customers. Those fighting the minimum wage -- big corporations making huge profits who see employees as cogs in the wheel. There are also some companies like GAP and Costco that have gone public in their commitment to pay their employees above minimum wage. Gee, I just bought a brand new workout outfit at GAP with my Rewards -- $26.00 -- it didn't exactly break the bank.
It's possible to pay a fair wage and make a profit. However, some companies decide that there's never enough profit.0 -
I'm not really following your logic here, sorry.
Yeah me either. All the company has to do is fire those people who refuse to go to work and hire more.
It's not the fast food industry's fault that people are obese. No one is forcing you to eat it 24/7.
My thoughts exactly!0 -
To everyone saying that Minimum wage is not meant to be a Livable wage: That is absolutely its intent.
From the Fair Labor Standards act of 1938 (the thing that created minimum wage):
§ 202. Congressional finding and declaration of policy
(a) The Congress finds that the existence, in industries engaged in commerce or in
the production of goods for commerce, of labor conditions detrimental to the
maintenance of the minimum standard of living necessary for health, efficiency, and
general well-being of workers
(b) It is declared to be the policy of this chapter, through the exercise by Congress
of its power to regulate commerce among the several States and with foreign
nations, to correct and as rapidly as practicable to eliminate the conditions above
referred to in such industries without substantially curtailing employment or earning
power.
That pretty clearly states that minimum wage should be a livable wage.
Sullus and those that concurred. I
all of you.
To those more concerned with how other people being able to make a living wage will make your money seem like less, or who don't want others to be able to pay rent because you didn't get a raise this year, you are the epitome of what is wrong with society.0 -
Ummm... y'all are angry because fast food workers would like to be paid a fair wage?
My uncle worked in Wal-mart his entire life. He retired a millionaire because he used his money wisely, invested it and made something from that 'minimum wage' job.
I work in retail and many of my coworkers have held their job for 25 years or more. To them it IS a career. It is their ONLY career. SOMEBODY has to do these jobs so why shouldn't it be a career?
Somebody insinuated these jobs are meant to be stepping stones to REAL jobs? Really? And who is going to pay for that education for these people to acquire REAL careers if they're only barely making enough to make ends meet? Hmmmm?
Gosh guys. Check your privilege.
Maybe.. just maybe if they didn't buy $330 shoes or buy a $600 smart phone they would have the money to pay for that education.
Comments like this completely piss me off. My best friend is a single mom of 3 boys, because her now ex-husband was an abusive slimeball and is now in jail for things he did. She worked full time at a retail job while raising these 3 kids to put herself through college, and graduated with a Bachelors degree. Guess what? Economy tanked. Couldn't get a job in anything other than, you guessed it, retail.
She shares a house with her mother and sister (so the 3 boys, her sister, herself and her mom) to save on money. Two of those boys are now in college. One is an honor student. She busts her behind to pay the bills but still struggles. She does have a smartphone on her mom's plan because it was free to get that phone. She shops as thrift stores and walmart because it's what she can afford.
Making it sound like all people on minimum wage do stupid stuff with their money is just being asinine.0 -
Ummm... y'all are angry because fast food workers would like to be paid a fair wage?
My uncle worked in Wal-mart his entire life. He retired a millionaire because he used his money wisely, invested it and made something from that 'minimum wage' job.
I work in retail and many of my coworkers have held their job for 25 years or more. To them it IS a career. It is their ONLY career. SOMEBODY has to do these jobs so why shouldn't it be a career?
Somebody insinuated these jobs are meant to be stepping stones to REAL jobs? Really? And who is going to pay for that education for these people to acquire REAL careers if they're only barely making enough to make ends meet? Hmmmm?
Gosh guys. Check your privilege.
Maybe.. just maybe if they didn't buy $330 shoes or buy a $600 smart phone they would have the money to pay for that education.
Comments like this completely piss me off. .....
Why?
It was an utterly ignorant comment made by someone who is clearly stupid.0 -
bump0
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But I Whataburger.
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This goes so far beyond the fast food industry. I will get on my soapbox for just a moment, if you'll allow me.
A bit of background (mine): I have 3 Bachelor's Degrees, along with several Associate's Degrees. (somewhere in the neighborhood of a dozen) 2 of these degrees are in Paramedicine and I have been a Paramedic for over 20 years. This job is my passion. No, I do NOT want to be a doctor. No, I do NOT want to be a nurse. I am a Paramedic. I am there for people on their worst day and I make a difference. I am NOT simply an ambulance driver. I am highly skilled and work in what is basically a mobile emergency room without the benefit of all the support staff available in a hospital/clinic environment. I also do this in a rural area and am on my own with a patient and a partner for sometimes up to 90 minutes. I do what I love, no complaints, seriously. I do, however, find it absolutely ridiculous that fast food workers in my area make more money than I do. Again, I realize that this is my choice, my chosen career. Even if minimum wage were to be raised, I am sure that my pay would remain the same. Medicare reimbursement only gets less and less each year, (Thank you US Congress.) and in the system in which I work, the Medicare Pay Schedule is what drives wages.
Enough about me, what about teachers? Many make less than $15/hour if you average it out over the year. Should they make less than the person cooking and wrapping your lunch? Our priorities as a society are very skewed. Raising the minimum wage is nothing but a bandaid on a much bigger problem. It's not about skilled or unskilled, this is just where the "story" is.
Off my soapbox now. Thanks for reading.0 -
Hmmm, that hasn't stopped people who smoke from buying cigarettes or people from purchasing alcohol. These are items that aren't essential like food, gas or housing either.Quite, if you raise the price of your product, less people will buy it...
A.C.E. Certified Group Fitness and Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Ummm... y'all are angry because fast food workers would like to be paid a fair wage?
My uncle worked in Wal-mart his entire life. He retired a millionaire because he used his money wisely, invested it and made something from that 'minimum wage' job.
I work in retail and many of my coworkers have held their job for 25 years or more. To them it IS a career. It is their ONLY career. SOMEBODY has to do these jobs so why shouldn't it be a career?
Somebody insinuated these jobs are meant to be stepping stones to REAL jobs? Really? And who is going to pay for that education for these people to acquire REAL careers if they're only barely making enough to make ends meet? Hmmmm?
Gosh guys. Check your privilege.
Maybe.. just maybe if they didn't buy $330 shoes or buy a $600 smart phone they would have the money to pay for that education.
Comments like this completely piss me off. .....
Why?
It was an utterly ignorant comment made by someone who is clearly stupid.
...Good point. :laugh: :flowerforyou:0 -
Congress and their retirement: Incoming class of '11 average net worth over $1 million dollars. Rep Issa of Cali net worth $480 million; Rep McCaul net worth just above $500 million, yes take their retirement benefits that will teach them.
Oh, the average Americans net worth is below $70,000.0 -
Some information on how raising minimum wage would affect the economy and some demographics on who currently earns minimum wage.
http://www.epi.org/publication/ib341-raising-federal-minimum-wage/
13 states raised their minimum wage in January and have seen good economic growth since then.
Interesting. Because if you take job growth of New Jersey, Connecticut, Vermont, New York, Montana, and Arizona (6 of the 13) since they increased the wage rate combined they do not equal Nevada. And the hits just keep on coming!0 -
The fact is that the minimum wage has stayed the same, while the purchasing power of the dollar has gone down. See the chart in the link below which compares what the minimum wage was at various times at "current level" dollars:
http://www.dol.gov/minwage/minwage-gdp-history.htm
The cost of living has already increased incredibly since 2008 -- housing, food, fuel, you name it, while wages have remained stagnant. Those who argue that prices will have to go way up again are ignoring the fact that prices have already gone way up, and not because companies are paying workers more. If one sticks to the argument that if wages rise, prices will rise, so we shouldn'[t raise wages, then we would never raise wages. Why don't we just pay our workers what they pay in Bangladesh -- that will keep the price of everything low?
By the way, in Mass., many of my associates who were small business owners actually paid above minimum wage because they had an interest in keeping their employees and insuring the same level of continuity and service to their customers. Those fighting the minimum wage -- big corporations making huge profits who see employees as cogs in the wheel. There are also some companies like GAP and Costco that have gone public in their commitment to pay their employees above minimum wage. Gee, I just bought a brand new workout outfit at GAP with my Rewards -- $26.00 -- it didn't exactly break the bank.
It's possible to pay a fair wage and make a profit. However, some companies decide that there's never enough profit.
Not to mention that CEO pay has increased exponentially compared to min wage. Corporations don't seem to think that's a problem for their bottom lines.0 -
Maybe.. just maybe if they didn't buy $330 shoes or buy a $600 smart phone they would have the money to pay for that education.
Comments like this completely piss me off. My best friend is a single mom of 3 boys, because her now ex-husband was an abusive slimeball and is now in jail for things he did. She worked full time at a retail job while raising these 3 kids to put herself through college, and graduated with a Bachelors degree. Guess what? Economy tanked. Couldn't get a job in anything other than, you guessed it, retail.
She shares a house with her mother and sister (so the 3 boys, her sister, herself and her mom) to save on money. Two of those boys are now in college. One is an honor student. She busts her behind to pay the bills but still struggles. She does have a smartphone on her mom's plan because it was free to get that phone. She shops as thrift stores and walmart because it's what she can afford.
Making it sound like all people on minimum wage do stupid stuff with their money is just being asinine.
QFT0 -
I think all the people on this thread who believe that the minimum wage should be $15 or higher should immediately contribute some of their salary to the cause. Its really easy to rail against CEO's investors etc.. and say what should be done with their money but its another to pony up your own money..0
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I'm not reading through 10 pages of this garbage, but when you say these people don't deserve a wage increase what you're really saying is, "The person who works a minimum wage job doesn't deserve a home, a family, food on their table, or clothes on their back."
You think just because it's "unskilled" labor means that these people don't deserve to live the same life that you get to enjoy? With a roof over their head and food in their stomachs?
The attitudes of some of the people commenting make me absolutely sick.
Take a step back and realize that some people are working three jobs just to enjoy the things that you take for granted.0 -
I'm not reading through 10 pages of this garbage, but when you say these people don't deserve a wage increase what you're really saying is, "The person who works a minimum wage job doesn't deserve a home, a family, food on their table, or clothes on their back."
You think just because it's "unskilled" labor means that these people don't deserve to live the same life that you get to enjoy? With a roof over their head and food in their stomachs?
The attitudes of some of the people commenting make me absolutely sick.
Take a step back and realize that some people are working three jobs just to enjoy the things that you take for granted.
No what I'm really saying is the minimum wage and entry level positions are designed to give people a chance to break into the job market and gain skills.
I take nothing for granted...I have worked my way up in life
Everyone can not everyone will
I take nothing for granted...0
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