Why is MFP so mean??
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It's like with religion or politics. You try to shove your beliefs, be they right or wrong, down someone's throat in a mean and holier-than-thou manner and you will rarely get them to even listen to your point, much less consider it objectively.
except those are beliefs.
a lot of the mean folks dispel myths with science.
facts.
you can be any denomination or political affiliation... but you're gonna lose weight the same way as others. Calorie deficit.
Fair enough. But let's take the detox mentioned earlier. Necessary? Doubtful. Harmful? Probably not.
A restricitve diet (this seems to be a huge ongoing argument on this site, I've learned). Necessary? Maybe not (depending on medical conditions). Harmful? Doubtful.
Yet these threads get pretty darn nasty, on both sides.
Detox = waste of money, can it be harmful yes it can. Also trying to help someone not waste money and get frustrated and give up before they even get started.
Restrictive diet - again yes can be harmful and again can be setting someone up for failure.
I think a big thing you aren't realizing, is many times answers are given to the OP, who may or may not take the advice to their question, but the responses are for the many people that lurk and just read the information without every responding. If the so called mean people didn't respond and disprove the bs threads myths that are posted, many myself included never would have been given the correct answers, links, studies so we can read and educate ourselves.
I think I'm going to leave this thread because I don't seem to be understood. I have not suggested anyone should not reply or provide information or share their preferences. Nothing I've said has been about content. It's a forum, of course people should present their opinions. I've just been talking about tone. About the manner in which the opinions, facts, science, whatever is presented. About being mean.
I think one of the missing links here is that the term "mean people" has taken on a bit of its own definition here at MFP. You seem to be arguing against those who are actually being mean. As many of us have said, those people do exist and should be combatted where they are. But "mean people" as it's being used by most here refers to those posters who give advice time and again in a pleasant or neutral tone only to be accused of meaness if the OP doesn't like what they've been told. It's become a sort of cultural definition here after so many threads decrying the "mean people" of MFP have proven to be about the helpful posters who are trying to get their point across once the OP starts arguing and insulting them.
These are the people that this thread started out about and these are the people who are driven to stop posting advice after a certain number of threads like these. Want less misinformation on the boards? Stop telling those who spend time trying to correct it to go away.0 -
[/quote]I cannot speak for everyone but for me honesty without compassion is abuse. I found in my life I could hide behind the "I was just being honest" facade when in reality I was just being an *kitten*.
And for me, I would rather be thought of as an *kitten* or an MFP meanie than blow smoke up the posterior of people looking for advice just because they might get their wittle feewings huwted. People need to grow up, get over it and realize that life ain't sunshine and rainbows.
No one is saying anyone has to lie to someone, or sugarcoat their words. But there are more effective ways to say what needs to be said.
If you are participating in a a conversation you should care weather the recipient is able to understand things from your point of view. Hostile words and lazy snide comments do not make your point or help the recipient... If you don't care about the other person, or even if your point hits home with them, then really why are you wasting time replying at all? The only conclusion is that there must be some sort of sick enjoyment in belittling others... and that is sad.0 -
I cannot speak for everyone but for me honesty without compassion is abuse. I found in my life I could hide behind the "I was just being honest" facade when in reality I was just being an *kitten*.
And for me, I would rather be thought of as an *kitten* or an MFP meanie than blow smoke up the posterior of people looking for advice just because they might get their wittle feewings huwted. People need to grow up, get over it and realize that life ain't sunshine and rainbows.
the following are great examples of people who deliver information at the right "tone" sara, sidesteel, helloitsdan, stroutman, haybales, ninerbuff, and sorry loads more i cant remember. they will tell you when u are wrong but give you great information.0 -
I tend to have the mean ones on my FL, always makes it easy to see when someone is complaining about them.....must say as a FL they rock!
ETA
After reading more than just the OP......
"Mean" people (mfp style) are almost without fail the nicest, most helpful people you will find here. Are some people just a$$es, sure, but they normally get called out quickly from those same "mean" people. Do the "mean" people at times get extremely frustrated.... Yep and with good reason, at those points after already have stated facts politely....then they become blunt and to the point. When an op (or normally some misinformed commenter) wants to list falsities as truths and get their panties in a bunch when it is pointed out to them that a simple search of mfp, will have numerous posts on why they are wrong....I see nothing wrong with them being called on it. I know personally when I get a little more to the point.....it is because I do not want a new person coming across a post, and being misinformed. Then we get the questions here on MFP of "why *insert fad* isn't working" or worse they give up on their goals.
Repeated questions I understand, everyone feels they have a particular aspect to the question they need, or they are human and just being lazy....whichever doesn't matter most have done it. Arguing without backing your point with facts and trying to have false facts take up the boards, will almost always result in a rage quit, and/or a mean people thread but sometimes, it causes the person to back off and go learn. Personally if someone is stupid enough to argue against fact, (I don't mean debate with science) I mean full out refuse to see any facts....then I could careless how upset they get.0 -
No one is saying anyone has to lie to someone, or sugarcoat their words. But there are more effective ways to say what needs to be said.I cannot speak for everyone but for me honesty without compassion is abuse. I found in my life I could hide behind the "I was just being honest" facade when in reality I was just being an *kitten*.
And for me, I would rather be thought of as an *kitten* or an MFP meanie than blow smoke up the posterior of people looking for advice just because they might get their wittle feewings huwted. People need to grow up, get over it and realize that life ain't sunshine and rainbows.
If you are participating in a a conversation you should care weather the recipient is able to understand things from your point of view. Hostile words and lazy snide comments do not make your point or help the recipient... If you don't care about the other person, or even if your point hits home with them, then really why are you wasting time replying at all? The only conclusion is that there must be some sort of sick enjoyment in belittling others... and that is sad.
That's not the only conclusion at all. It's words and opinions on an internet message board. No one is belittling anyone. Oversensitive recipients =/= hostile messagethe following are great examples of people who deliver information at the right "tone" sara, sidesteel, helloitsdan, stroutman, haybales, ninerbuff, and sorry loads more i cant remember. they will tell you when u are wrong but give you great information.
I agree that most of those people are very reasonable and present well-thought out and balanced arguments. However, their tone is no more "right" than yours or mine. It just happens to be the tone to which you respond best. There may be others who prefer a little more sunshine and roses and some who prefer a little more bluntness. Just because YOU feel the people above have the best tone for YOU, that doesn't make it the "right" tone.0 -
Someone once gave the analogy and I loved it...
There are plenty of people that are willing to give the correct advice in threads, but the method of delivery is usually a 2x4 to the head.
Nothing wrong with that. We are all adults and should be able to take it. It's just the internet after all.0 -
No one is saying anyone has to lie to someone, or sugarcoat their words. But there are more effective ways to say what needs to be said.I cannot speak for everyone but for me honesty without compassion is abuse. I found in my life I could hide behind the "I was just being honest" facade when in reality I was just being an *kitten*.
And for me, I would rather be thought of as an *kitten* or an MFP meanie than blow smoke up the posterior of people looking for advice just because they might get their wittle feewings huwted. People need to grow up, get over it and realize that life ain't sunshine and rainbows.
If you are participating in a a conversation you should care weather the recipient is able to understand things from your point of view. Hostile words and lazy snide comments do not make your point or help the recipient... If you don't care about the other person, or even if your point hits home with them, then really why are you wasting time replying at all? The only conclusion is that there must be some sort of sick enjoyment in belittling others... and that is sad.
That's not the only conclusion at all. It's words and opinions on an internet message board. No one is belittling anyone. Oversensitive recipients =/= hostile messagethe following are great examples of people who deliver information at the right "tone" sara, sidesteel, helloitsdan, stroutman, haybales, ninerbuff, and sorry loads more i cant remember. they will tell you when u are wrong but give you great information.
I agree that most of those people are very reasonable and present well-thought out and balanced arguments. However, their tone is no more "right" than yours or mine. It just happens to be the tone to which you respond best. There may be others who prefer a little more sunshine and roses and some who prefer a little more bluntness. Just because YOU feel the people above have the best tone for YOU, that doesn't make it the "right" tone.
not right not wrong but least likely to scare some people off, or rub people off the wrong way. I know that can happen regardless though0 -
No one is saying anyone has to lie to someone, or sugarcoat their words. But there are more effective ways to say what needs to be said.
If you are participating in a a conversation you should care weather the recipient is able to understand things from your point of view. Hostile words and lazy snide comments do not make your point or help the recipient... If you don't care about the other person, or even if your point hits home with them, then really why are you wasting time replying at all? The only conclusion is that there must be some sort of sick enjoyment in belittling others... and that is sad.
Two thoughts on this. I really do try to be nice, calm, and straight forward. But I still get called mean, a hater, and a bully. I keep trying, but I can see how it would be easy to say "well if that response was "rude" then why bother trying to be nice?" Just look at sarauk2sf up there. She's been mentioned several times in this thread as one of the "nice" people and yet she gets called a bully all the time. If people are too liberal with calling people bullies and meanies then those words lose their meaning. If someone is truly cruel or rude then that's one thing, but there are just as many instances (if not more) of calling people mean for disagreeing.
Secondly I think most people who get called mean do care about helping people. Different people respond to different styles of communication and that's okay. Some people respond more to a gentler touch and some respond more to a slap in the face. I think those who prefer a harsher approach are also going to be the people who use that approach when giving advice. It doesn't mean they don't want to help.0 -
No one is saying anyone has to lie to someone, or sugarcoat their words. But there are more effective ways to say what needs to be said.
If you are participating in a a conversation you should care weather the recipient is able to understand things from your point of view. Hostile words and lazy snide comments do not make your point or help the recipient... If you don't care about the other person, or even if your point hits home with them, then really why are you wasting time replying at all? The only conclusion is that there must be some sort of sick enjoyment in belittling others... and that is sad.
Two thoughts on this. I really do try to be nice, calm, and straight forward. But I still get called mean, a hater, and a bully. I keep trying, but I can see how it would be easy to say "well if that response was "rude" then why bother trying to be nice?" Just look at sarauk2sf up there. She's been mentioned several times in this thread as one of the "nice" people and yet she gets called a bully all the time. If people are too liberal with calling people bullies and meanies then those words lose their meaning. If someone is truly cruel or rude then that's one thing, but there are just as many instances (if not more) of calling people mean for disagreeing.
Secondly I think most people who get called mean do care about helping people. Different people respond to different styles of communication and that's okay. Some people respond more to a gentler touch and some respond more to a slap in the face. I think those who prefer a harsher approach are also going to be the people who use that approach when giving advice. It doesn't mean they don't want to help.
those were all so good I couldn't decide!0 -
I purposefully surround myself with the "meanies of MFP"... why? Because they care more about health and fitness than someone who would validate my opinions. And they aren't trying to hock the latest and greast snake oil for weight loss and health.0
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Someone once gave the analogy and I loved it...
There are plenty of people that are willing to give the correct advice in threads, but the method of delivery is usually a 2x4 to the head.
Nothing wrong with that. We are all adults and should be able to take it. It's just the internet after all.
Boom.0 -
I'm mean IRL. Why should I change on here?0
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I'm only mean to beach body coaches.0
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No one is saying anyone has to lie to someone, or sugarcoat their words. But there are more effective ways to say what needs to be said.
If you are participating in a a conversation you should care weather the recipient is able to understand things from your point of view. Hostile words and lazy snide comments do not make your point or help the recipient... If you don't care about the other person, or even if your point hits home with them, then really why are you wasting time replying at all? The only conclusion is that there must be some sort of sick enjoyment in belittling others... and that is sad.
Two thoughts on this. I really do try to be nice, calm, and straight forward. But I still get called mean, a hater, and a bully. I keep trying, but I can see how it would be easy to say "well if that response was "rude" then why bother trying to be nice?" Just look at sarauk2sf up there. She's been mentioned several times in this thread as one of the "nice" people and yet she gets called a bully all the time. If people are too liberal with calling people bullies and meanies then those words lose their meaning. If someone is truly cruel or rude then that's one thing, but there are just as many instances (if not more) of calling people mean for disagreeing.
Secondly I think most people who get called mean do care about helping people. Different people respond to different styles of communication and that's okay. Some people respond more to a gentler touch and some respond more to a slap in the face. I think those who prefer a harsher approach are also going to be the people who use that approach when giving advice. It doesn't mean they don't want to help.
The last time I was called mean, I provided some decent perspective in a post. I posted again to clarity a point that many people were making, because it looked like the person was misinterpreting what what being said. I ran the person's numbers to show why the plan was foundationally unhealthy.
Then some idiot got all supportive of the bad idea, and the OP responded "See, THIS is what I was talking about. Tell me more."
And I posted a kitty gif. I tried not to. I really, really tried. But it was too cliched and it was a moral imperative.
Sometimes when you've tried all the other tools, you're left standing there with a 2X40 -
No one is saying anyone has to lie to someone, or sugarcoat their words. But there are more effective ways to say what needs to be said.
If you are participating in a a conversation you should care weather the recipient is able to understand things from your point of view. Hostile words and lazy snide comments do not make your point or help the recipient... If you don't care about the other person, or even if your point hits home with them, then really why are you wasting time replying at all? The only conclusion is that there must be some sort of sick enjoyment in belittling others... and that is sad.
Two thoughts on this. I really do try to be nice, calm, and straight forward. But I still get called mean, a hater, and a bully. I keep trying, but I can see how it would be easy to say "well if that response was "rude" then why bother trying to be nice?" Just look at sarauk2sf up there. She's been mentioned several times in this thread as one of the "nice" people and yet she gets called a bully all the time. If people are too liberal with calling people bullies and meanies then those words lose their meaning. If someone is truly cruel or rude then that's one thing, but there are just as many instances (if not more) of calling people mean for disagreeing.
Secondly I think most people who get called mean do care about helping people. Different people respond to different styles of communication and that's okay. Some people respond more to a gentler touch and some respond more to a slap in the face. I think those who prefer a harsher approach are also going to be the people who use that approach when giving advice. It doesn't mean they don't want to help.
The last time I was called mean, I provided some decent perspective in a post. I posted again to clarity a point that many people were making, because it looked like the person was misinterpreting what what being said. I ran the person's numbers to show why the plan was foundationally unhealthy.
Then some idiot got all supportive of the bad idea, and the OP responded "See, THIS is what I was talking about. Tell me more."
And I posted a kitty gif. I tried not to. I really, really tried. But it was too cliched and it was a moral imperative.
Sometimes when you've tried all the other tools, you're left standing there with a 2X4
You're mean.
0 -
No one is saying anyone has to lie to someone, or sugarcoat their words. But there are more effective ways to say what needs to be said.
If you are participating in a a conversation you should care weather the recipient is able to understand things from your point of view. Hostile words and lazy snide comments do not make your point or help the recipient... If you don't care about the other person, or even if your point hits home with them, then really why are you wasting time replying at all? The only conclusion is that there must be some sort of sick enjoyment in belittling others... and that is sad.
Two thoughts on this. I really do try to be nice, calm, and straight forward. But I still get called mean, a hater, and a bully. I keep trying, but I can see how it would be easy to say "well if that response was "rude" then why bother trying to be nice?" Just look at sarauk2sf up there. She's been mentioned several times in this thread as one of the "nice" people and yet she gets called a bully all the time. If people are too liberal with calling people bullies and meanies then those words lose their meaning. If someone is truly cruel or rude then that's one thing, but there are just as many instances (if not more) of calling people mean for disagreeing.
Secondly I think most people who get called mean do care about helping people. Different people respond to different styles of communication and that's okay. Some people respond more to a gentler touch and some respond more to a slap in the face. I think those who prefer a harsher approach are also going to be the people who use that approach when giving advice. It doesn't mean they don't want to help.
those were all so good I couldn't decide!
:smooched:0 -
It's like with religion or politics. You try to shove your beliefs, be they right or wrong, down someone's throat in a mean and holier-than-thou manner and you will rarely get them to even listen to your point, much less consider it objectively.
except those are beliefs.
a lot of the mean folks dispel myths with science.
facts.
you can be any denomination or political affiliation... but you're gonna lose weight the same way as others. Calorie deficit.
Fair enough. But let's take the detox mentioned earlier. Necessary? Doubtful. Harmful? Probably not.
A restricitve diet (this seems to be a huge ongoing argument on this site, I've learned). Necessary? Maybe not (depending on medical conditions). Harmful? Doubtful.
Yet these threads get pretty darn nasty, on both sides.
If you believe that neither of these are harmful to effective long-term results, then you are not seeing the bigger picture. The illusion of and hope for progress is a serious deterrent to actual progress.0 -
It's like with religion or politics. You try to shove your beliefs, be they right or wrong, down someone's throat in a mean and holier-than-thou manner and you will rarely get them to even listen to your point, much less consider it objectively.
except those are beliefs.
a lot of the mean folks dispel myths with science.
facts.
you can be any denomination or political affiliation... but you're gonna lose weight the same way as others. Calorie deficit.
Fair enough. But let's take the detox mentioned earlier. Necessary? Doubtful. Harmful? Probably not.
A restricitve diet (this seems to be a huge ongoing argument on this site, I've learned). Necessary? Maybe not (depending on medical conditions). Harmful? Doubtful.
Yet these threads get pretty darn nasty, on both sides.
If you believe that neither of these are harmful to effective long-term results, then you are not seeing the bigger picture. The illusion of and hope for progress is a serious deterrent to actual progress.
Personally I'm of the opinion that misinformation is always harmful.0 -
While I'm newer to the forums here at MFP, I've been using forums on other websites for almost 10 years now. One thing I've learned: every site/community has its own feel and its own set of unwritten rules. I've spent some good time reading the "stickies" in the various forum topics as well as a number of threads to see what people are talking about and to get a sensibility for the vibe here.
I really recommend this approach if you're new! Take some time to listen before speaking. You might well find some of your questions have already been asked (and knowledgeably answered).
Good stuff, OP.
This is possibly some of the most awesome advice I've ever read.0 -
No one is saying anyone has to lie to someone, or sugarcoat their words. But there are more effective ways to say what needs to be said.
If you are participating in a a conversation you should care weather the recipient is able to understand things from your point of view. Hostile words and lazy snide comments do not make your point or help the recipient... If you don't care about the other person, or even if your point hits home with them, then really why are you wasting time replying at all? The only conclusion is that there must be some sort of sick enjoyment in belittling others... and that is sad.
Two thoughts on this. I really do try to be nice, calm, and straight forward. But I still get called mean, a hater, and a bully. I keep trying, but I can see how it would be easy to say "well if that response was "rude" then why bother trying to be nice?" Just look at sarauk2sf up there. She's been mentioned several times in this thread as one of the "nice" people and yet she gets called a bully all the time. If people are too liberal with calling people bullies and meanies then those words lose their meaning. If someone is truly cruel or rude then that's one thing, but there are just as many instances (if not more) of calling people mean for disagreeing.
Secondly I think most people who get called mean do care about helping people. Different people respond to different styles of communication and that's okay. Some people respond more to a gentler touch and some respond more to a slap in the face. I think those who prefer a harsher approach are also going to be the people who use that approach when giving advice. It doesn't mean they don't want to help.
The last time I was called mean, I provided some decent perspective in a post. I posted again to clarity a point that many people were making, because it looked like the person was misinterpreting what what being said. I ran the person's numbers to show why the plan was foundationally unhealthy.
Then some idiot got all supportive of the bad idea, and the OP responded "See, THIS is what I was talking about. Tell me more."
And I posted a kitty gif. I tried not to. I really, really tried. But it was too cliched and it was a moral imperative.
Sometimes when you've tried all the other tools, you're left standing there with a 2X4
I love you, you big, 2x4-wielding meanieface.0
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