Sorry I'm Not Sorry - I gotta rant!
Replies
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"Seriously, stop it. This is not helpful. It's not what the food is, it's overall calories and macros. As long as a person eats in a calorie deficit, the pounds will come off, it doesn't matter what the food being consumed is."
Beat me to it. :grumble:0 -
I'm not the person quoted in your opening post, but I did respond to basically the same rant in the original thread and--shock!--did not get a reply. I guess you aren't really interested in discussion but just want to create fake dichotomies about all fast food diets, which no one is recommending.
Here are the points I tried to make in the other thread, in the off-chance you might address them here:I suspect the first person [with a hypothetical fast-food-based diet] wouldn't be satisfied or feel as good as possible and thus would change his or her diet naturally, based on what works. I just don't think it's sensible (or morally right) to lie and tell that person he or she cannot lose weight unless fast food is excluded.
Now, if that person says he or she is hungry and asks for advice, I'd point to food choice (and have seen that happen here). If the person asks about nutrition or the like, same. But I've also known someone who lost a bunch of weight and ended up changing her diet to be much healthier by first starting by reducing fast food portions and paying attention to calories. Sometimes it's a process, and sometimes a really long one...
And, on the oh-so-delightful "clean eating" silliness, beginning with a definition of "clean eating" by the OP as not processed or fast food or convenience food:Depends who you ask. A shocking number of people claim to be "clean eaters" and eat lots of processed foods, and plenty of others claim that "clean" means no white foods or grains or sugar or any number of other self-defined rules.
Given this, I think we should all just acknowledge that "clean" means nothing in particular and is mostly just a way of claiming that the way you eat is superior to the way someone else eats.
Personally, I think about what I eat, but some of it--like yogurt, cottage cheese, smoked salmon, probably frozen veggies and canned tomatoes in the winter, steel cut oats, whole wheat pasta, quinoa, protein powder, etc.--is processed. Rather than thinking of these things as "cheats" or "unclean" (weird), I consider them to be foods I have chosen to eat because they meet some nutritional or taste consideration that I find important. Along with that, I'd include ice cream (homemade or otherwise), the pie I will make on Thanksgiving from fabulous ingredients, and the meals I get from restaurants, whether lunch places that meet my nutritional requirements and quality concerns or the various local restaurants I like for the occasional dinner....
On cheat days (since the OP apparently likes to think of herself as a "clean eater" who "cheats"): I don't cheat. I am concerned about overall balance and nutrition. I don't see why my diet is less healthy if I eat a 45 calorie Café Tasse Noir (my current favorite bit of chocolate to have after lunch on occasion) or even 200 calories of ice cream if I have lots of calories and have had my protein, fiber, and veggies. Re chemicals and additives, there are various things I choose not to eat (I don't personally choose to have HFCS or added transfats, and I simply don't like most packaged foods when compared to what I can cook myself), but I think a blanket prohibition on "processed" foods is too broad. There are many processed foods (the ones listed above, legumes, which I should eat more of) that are nutritionally positive. A focus on simply excluding allegedly bad foods and not creating a sensible balanced diet that meets nutritional needs and tastes good seems to me the wrong focus.
IME, if you focus on the sensible balanced diet, you aren't even going to want to or have room to be immoderate wrt high calorie sweets or chips or whatever it is that you are concerned about, other than rarely. I have a weakness for French fries, personally, and yet I did not need to cut them out or some foolish thing that would cause me to think about them more, and certainly not to declare them "unclean" (which makes no sense, especially since I can make them myself out of nice, clean potatoes). But because I'm focusing on other things I don't eat them often at all. And when I do I enjoy them and do not feel guilty or beat myself up or think I've polluted my body or fallen off the wagon or whatever. Ugh.0 -
I totally agree with you. People are just ignorant if they think that eating a full day of processed foods under their calorie goal is healthy. They might lose weight but they certainly won't gain any muscle. And over the long run these skinny healthy people die of heart attacks. Its the whole foods that helps us in the long run to live a long joyful life!
:laugh: wut?0 -
The WHO definition of health:
Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.
I'd like to add that many if not all roads lead to Rome in this case.
Source:
http://www.who.int/about/definition/en/print.html0 -
This is one of the better articles I've read lately. Stealing the term flexible dieter. .0 -
My diet is not so great, I do stay in my calories and I am losing weight. BUT, I do see an improvement over my food choices for the most part over the last month. So maybe like me, it is a learning process for them, slow but learning.....
For expample: I cut out the daily egg mcmuffin and am having oatmeal instead. I know this is a better choice for me. I am eating more greens.0 -
I recently posted on a thread about someone who is having a hard time losing weight - upon looking at their diary, it showed that they consume a decent amount of processed, convenience, and fast foods. My advice was that they should consider really eating more fruits/veggies etc. I used the term "clean eating". Lo and behold, the inevitable comment came in response to my suggestion; I believe the exact quote was "Seriously, stop it. This is not helpful. It's not what the food is, it's overall calories and macros. As long as a person eats in a calorie deficit, the pounds will come off, it doesn't matter what the food being consumed is."
I am going to lose my mind if I hear or see this comment again! I realize that for so many people the goal is to shed pounds, and I'm all for that! Obviously, losing the extra pounds is the first thing that is going to happen when converting to a healthy lifestyle, and it's mandatory in order to decrease the likelihood of obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, etc. But that's not the point of all of this. Food can be the best, most powerful form of medicine, or the slowest form of poison. The point is to eat the foods that are going to keep you healthy for the rest of your life. YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT! Fresh produce, whole grains, unprocessed food, little or no refined sugar/ wite flours - THAT is how you lose weight, and get healthy.
It is dangerous and counterproductive to suggest that it doesn't matter what you put into your body. I expect backlash to this rant, and I welcome all you trolls to tell me that I'm wrong - but you ask any single expert, or even just a health conscious person out there and they will say the exact thing I've just said. No one can dispute this.
I totally get it, and agree.
But it's not everyone's goal to be healthy, sadly. They just want to lose weight, have gainz, and eat whatever they want while doing it. It is totally possible to do that too, just not very wise in my personal opinion. All I do is care for people who've neglected their health. It's a very scary possibility we all face. Why risk it???
There is a way to eat mostly healthy wholesome, nutrient dense foods AND still enjoy everything else. Balance people, find a balance!0 -
I agree with what you are saying. I would go further as to say both are relevant. Eating huge portions of anything are not likely to help. I don't think those is the opposite camp will be convinced to eat clean until they experience it for themselves. Eating a clean diet changes your whole life. And we can preach it and advise to others, but really we can only help ourselves. What most people what to hear is the can eat whatever they want in any quantity and never leave their couches and some magic bullet will come along and overnight everything will be perfect. I have explored this site a bit and I sure your sentiments.0
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I probably exceed the definition of healthy used in this post and I don't eat "clean" at all. I also get confused by how putting something in a package makes it unhealthy. Can anyone explain that?0
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/threadI think that people just need to find what works for them. I prefer a balanced diet that includes treats. I do not need to eat 100% clean in order to lose weight. I think people are mixing up goals...
If your goal is to lose weight, eat at a deficit.
If your goal is to retain as much muscle as possible while losing weight, eat enough protein and find a progressive resistance training program (e. g. Starting strength or StrongLifts).
If your goal is to be overall healthy (feeling good most of the time and having good blood work, etc), maintain a healthy weight, get enough rest (sleep and non-exercise days), drink enough water, eat enough fat, get your micronutrients, and maybe do some form of cardio.
If your goal is to stay sane, don't give up foods you love. Try to work them in or take a temporary break from them until you can show some self control.0 -
Eating clean is one thing but one still has to watch the portion sizes of things as well0
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In.
But don't get all crazy until after about 4pm PST. I have to shower, get my kids from school, and start dinner.
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In!!0
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Lol.
HAHA I love this! It's Rocket!!0 -
Huh... person who doesn't agree w/ you = troll?
I've lost 73 lbs eating processed food within my calorie limit set by MFP. My most recent blood work came back indicating my iron went up, my blood count went up, my HDL is up and my LDL is down, and my blood sugar is around 5. So call me a troll.
first off..BIG high 5 to you! congrats on your loss.
lol OP
seems to me youve been here long enough to have learned that this can be a simple game of cals in/cals out.
my failure at weightloss comes from restricting and trying to eat "healthy".
im successful now because i allow myself to eat the things i really enjoy.
moderation....check it out.0 -
You are a brave, brave soul. I don't have nearly enough time to go into everything I think on this subject, but I'll throw in these two cents:
I work in the biomedical research field (cancer). About two months ago, the director of the NIH came to my university to give a talk about many many things. Among the data he presented was the risk factors for various types of cancer. Everyone knows smoking is number one for lung cancer; the number two risk for colorectal cancer was processed meat (and the risk of cancer increased with any amount of processed meat consumed).
You mean...
Sausage?
Lunchmeat?
Hamburger?
Smoked ham?
What do you mean by "processed" meat?0 -
Define "healthy."
Well, if you actually need me to define "healthy" for you, then here it is:
adjective, healthier, healthiest.
1. possessing or enjoying good health or a sound and vigorous mentality:
"a healthy body; a healthy mind."
That's how the dictionary defines. If that doesn't satisfy you, then my definition of healthy is being able to sleep restfully through the night, having the energy to make it through the day without needing to consume caffeine/sugar, pooping regularly, feeling positive, and happy, and knowing that, barring any chronic/unexpected diseases, you are going to look forward to long life.
If neither of those help you in your search for healthy, I'm not sure what will.
Sorry but no where in that definition does it say "cut out processed foods and etc etc etc" I'm healthy, I have a clean bill of health. And i eat processed foods. I also eat less than my deficit while eating those processed foods because I want to lose weight.
My MIL is EXTREMELY healthy, clean eater, you name it, she just found more cancer in her body. My point? clean eating is not the end all and be all of healthy.
Healthy is many things and people can and will eat processed foods and be healthy. People can and will eat clean and be unhealthy. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't make us bullies or trolls. It makes us equally valid in our thoughts and ideas. It's a genetic, variable pea soup. We all do the things we can to make our lives the best, most enjoyable and longest living. There is no guarantee your way will work better than my way. Because....variables.0 -
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Seriously....stop it.0
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Sounds like someone needs a hershey's kiss or two... or maybe some ice cream.0
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My diet is not so great, I do stay in my calories and I am losing weight. BUT, I do see an improvement over my food choices for the most part over the last month. So maybe like me, it is a learning process for them, slow but learning.....
For expample: I cut out the daily egg mcmuffin and am having oatmeal instead. I know this is a better choice for me. I am eating more greens.
What if I need the protein in the egg?0 -
Seriously
Stop
It0 -
I agree with what you are saying. I would go further as to say both are relevant. Eating huge portions of anything are not likely to help. I don't think those is the opposite camp will be convinced to eat clean until they experience it for themselves. Eating a clean diet changes your whole life. And we can preach it and advise to others, but really we can only help ourselves. What most people what to hear is the can eat whatever they want in any quantity and never leave their couches and some magic bullet will come along and overnight everything will be perfect. I have explored this site a bit and I sure your sentiments.
This...I just literally face palmed.
Most people on this site understand that "healthy" is in the context of an entire diet, not individual foods and that the word "clean" is a trivial, meaningless word. If I am meeting my nutrient needs, my body couldn't care less WHERE those calories are derived from. You might, everyone's palates are different. You're not any more superior to me because you abstain from foods I don't.
Eat in a way that makes you happy. Find a calorie goal that meets your needs and goals. Get your bodies required nutrients. There. Healthy. And without all this "clean"nonsense.0 -
Seriously, stop it. This is not helpful. It's not what the food is, it's overall calories and macros. As long as a person eats in a calorie deficit, the pounds will come off, it doesn't matter what the food being consumed is.
This ;-)0 -
OP, can you give your definition of clean eating? Because, honestly, all these "clean eaters" have many different views on what is "clean". Some think it is food only picked from a plant, others think it has to have less than five ingredients. I think the most hilarious one to date was a friend telling me that a food was "clean" when you knew what all the ingredients were. So, uneducated people were eating very unclean foods, but say, a chemist specializing in food could eat any damn thing they pleased and call it clean.
Seriously, just give up. Your "science" has no real scientific backing. Just like low fat, low carb, atkins, south beach, and paleo, clean eating is just a fad, and based in quasi theories.0 -
You are a brave, brave soul. I don't have nearly enough time to go into everything I think on this subject, but I'll throw in these two cents:
I work in the biomedical research field (cancer). About two months ago, the director of the NIH came to my university to give a talk about many many things. Among the data he presented was the risk factors for various types of cancer. Everyone knows smoking is number one for lung cancer; the number two risk for colorectal cancer was processed meat (and the risk of cancer increased with any amount of processed meat consumed).
You mean...
Sausage?
Lunchmeat?
Hamburger?
Smoked ham?
What do you mean by "processed" meat?
Maybe she means baked chicken or roasted turkey?0 -
The Best thing to do is this.
Under the Success stories, and there are plenty of them.. The ones that have lost 100lbs or more, is ask them how they did it.
Some will say eating clean (Blogger at IIFYM defines clean as food w/1 ingredient)
Some will say they were extremely successful with HIgh calories and low to no carbs.
and others will say 1500 calories with high protein and high fat and high carbs.
Who knows which one works.
Healthy: What is your definition of healthy. Are football players healthy? what about basketball players? What about bodybuilders.
What does a bodybuilder, football & basket ball player eat?
I tried eating 1200 calories (right in vs out, and the bigger the deficit the bigger the loss, right? ) and attempt to burning at 500 - 1000 calories to lose weight. It didn't work I lost nothing. I started to eat 2000 calories and weight started to come off. Nothing change except the diet.0 -
I agree with you on a lotta aspects.....however in the end it's up to the individual what they put in their bodies. I can tell you that my change of lifestyle has been rewarding. The biggest change for me is tasting something for the first time. Yesterday I had portabella mushrooms. (Grrrrr spell check) Crazy huh?...a woman in her 50's never eating mushrooms before. I would say that if losing weight is on your list of priorities then that is great, mine is trying to be healthy. Sneaking healthier options to my hubby has helped his weight/health too. Anyhoo that's my thoughts. Stay healthy people0
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Seriously, stop it. This is not helpful. It's not what the food is, it's overall calories and macros. As long as a person eats in a calorie deficit, the pounds will come off, it doesn't matter what the food being consumed is.
Really, so If all I ate was sunflower oil, say 1000 calories worth, I should have no problems with my body or the weight coming off. Interesting.0 -
And with this I go eat ma processed ham veggie chowda0
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