Sorry I'm Not Sorry - I gotta rant!
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Seriously, stop it. This is not helpful. It's not what the food is, it's overall calories and macros. As long as a person eats in a calorie deficit, the pounds will come off, it doesn't matter what the food being consumed is.
+1
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You are a brave, brave soul. I don't have nearly enough time to go into everything I think on this subject, but I'll throw in these two cents:
I work in the biomedical research field (cancer). About two months ago, the director of the NIH came to my university to give a talk about many many things. Among the data he presented was the risk factors for various types of cancer. Everyone knows smoking is number one for lung cancer; the number two risk for colorectal cancer was processed meat (and the risk of cancer increased with any amount of processed meat consumed).
You mean...
Sausage?
Lunchmeat?
Hamburger?
Smoked ham?
What do you mean by "processed" meat?
Maybe she means baked chicken or roasted turkey?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18444144
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0309174014000564
" Epidemiological and mechanistic data on associations between red and processed meat intake and CRC are inconsistent and underlying mechanisms are unclear."0 -
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IN, and hoping this is still around when I get home.
Oh, and my eating has gotten progressively more "unclean" as I've gotten healthier and in better shape over the last year. Because I'm lifting and have more calories to burn, and I fill them however I damn well please as long as I hit my macros since I now have a much better understanding of what foods I need and what keeps me full. Want to see my blood work? I have it.0 -
I totally agree with you. People are just ignorant if they think that eating a full day of processed foods under their calorie goal is healthy. They might lose weight but they certainly won't gain any muscle. And over the long run these skinny healthy people die of heart attacks. Its the whole foods that helps us in the long run to live a long joyful life!
To gain muscle you need protein. Some of us (not me) may process our protein entirely ourselves (hunters, people who eat mostly fish they catch themselves, etc.), but I strongly suspect most do not.
One of the main reasons I eat processed foods (see the list above) is that stuff like greek yogurt and smoked salmon helps me meet my protein goals. And even the meat I buy from a local farm is obviously processed in some way.
It would be nice if people could actually be more specific about what they mean instead of using "processed" to mean "bad" or some such. It's like calling people fascists or socialists just because you think that's an icky thing to be, and not with any understanding of the underlying meaning of the term.
Also not sure why baby carrots are increasing my risk of a heart attack, but I'll put it on my list of things to worry about when I have time.0 -
Losing weight is about calories in vs calories out (it's math, not magic); however, a "skinny" person can still experience heart problems, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, etc. if they have a poor diet. Even if they are in their teens or 20s when most people believe they're "too young" for those kinds of health problems. It's about balance. If you want foods that are high in sugar or sodium, eat them in moderation. You might lose weight in the short term, but your long term health will suffer if you're not careful.0
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I totally agree with you. People are just ignorant if they think that eating a full day of processed foods under their calorie goal is healthy. They might lose weight but they certainly won't gain any muscle. And over the long run these skinny healthy people die of heart attacks. Its the whole foods that helps us in the long run to live a long joyful life!
You wont gain muscle by eating healthy either.. you gotta work out, for that.0 -
You're not any more superior to me because you abstain from foods I don't.
^^ THIS
So much this0 -
My diet is not so great, I do stay in my calories and I am losing weight. BUT, I do see an improvement over my food choices for the most part over the last month. So maybe like me, it is a learning process for them, slow but learning.....
For expample: I cut out the daily egg mcmuffin and am having oatmeal instead. I know this is a better choice for me. I am eating more greens.
What if I need the protein in the egg?
Egg McMuffin is a pretty balanced 300 cal meal. Oatmeal is not.0 -
Is anyone keeping a false dichotomy count? I'm starting to think that this post could hit a record.0
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Seriously, stop it. This is not helpful. It's not what the food is, it's overall calories and macros. As long as a person eats in a calorie deficit, the pounds will come off, it doesn't matter what the food being consumed is.
Really, so If all I ate was sunflower oil, say 1000 calories worth, I should have no problems with my body or the weight coming off. Interesting.
Do you know what macros are or is it reading comp?0 -
All of this.OP, can you give your definition of clean eating? Because, honestly, all these "clean eaters" have many different views on what is "clean". Some think it is food only picked from a plant, others think it has to have less than five ingredients. I think the most hilarious one to date was a friend telling me that a food was "clean" when you knew what all the ingredients were. So, uneducated people were eating very unclean foods, but say, a chemist specializing in food could eat any damn thing they pleased and call it clean.
Seriously, just give up. Your "science" has no real scientific backing. Just like low fat, low carb, atkins, south beach, and paleo, clean eating is just a fad, and based in quasi theories.
Also, OP, there are TONS of "health conscious" people here and they will not only NOT say the exact same thing as you, but tell you that you are WRONG. As you've seen. (Though you seem to have tried to head all disagreement off by calling everyone trolls.)0 -
Losing weight is about calories in vs calories out (it's math, not magic); however, a "skinny" person can still experience heart problems, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, etc. if they have a poor diet. Even if they are in their teens or 20s when most people believe they're "too young" for those kinds of health problems. It's about balance. If you want foods that are high in sugar or sodium, eat them in moderation. You might lose weight in the short term, but your long term health will suffer if you're not careful.
An active lifestyle is consistently shown to moderate all of those factors.
Eating habits have a less consistent impact.0 -
YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT!
Gee... I'm now a baked potato. :grumble:0 -
Eating "clean", does generally make you "feel better" (debatable on what that means), but it doesn't really have anything to do with losing weight, in the capacity that you're describing. All foods get broken down to their constituents in the body. There are slightly different metabolic pathways for non-glucose (e.g. fructose) sugars versus glucose, but in the end it all pretty much becomes the same...
The person eating processed foods in your example, was probably not tracking his serving sizes properly, and thus, having a hard time losing weight. That's the more likely explanation.0 -
I agree with you. Fruit and vegetables are filling and contain less calories. Fast food can be high in salt and fat. As well as high in calories. So i believe my doctor and nutritionist. They advise to stay away from processed high calorie fatty food. However if all you have available is fast food then try to eat best options available. People are crazy to think your advice is useless. The key is balance. Look at what's really in your food and decide for yourself. I'm with you. I am slowly trying to be healthy. Also fast food isn't always accurate calorie count. They may give you more food than a serving. Fries are closely packed but some may give more or less. Chick film a has a certain way to fill fries. Get someone who is in a hurry and over packs then. There goes your calorie count.0
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Ah I knew this thread wouldn't disappoint. Carry on.0
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Define "healthy."
Well, if you actually need me to define "healthy" for you, then here it is:
adjective, healthier, healthiest.
1. possessing or enjoying good health or a sound and vigorous mentality:
"a healthy body; a healthy mind."
That's how the dictionary defines. If that doesn't satisfy you, then my definition of healthy is being able to sleep restfully through the night, having the energy to make it through the day without needing to consume caffeine/sugar, pooping regularly, feeling positive, and happy, and knowing that, barring any chronic/unexpected diseases, you are going to look forward to long life.
If neither of those help you in your search for healthy, I'm not sure what will.
bump for 24 ounces of coffee please.0 -
So OP is complaining that when someone asked for weight loss advice, and she gave them irrelevant cleaning eating advice, this advice was pointed out as being irrelevant.
And this was wrong because...?
Isnt it linked though? If eating cleaner helps you get more food, which is better for you , provides more energy, keeps you feeling fuller for longer, then that helps with being able to stick to your diet and aids weight loss. Notwithstanding the overall calorie deficit.
Btw as someone new to MFP is this one of those recurring threads?0 -
Define "healthy."
You know what it is. Don't be snide.0 -
Glazed?? LIke donuts? Those are healthy right? I mean.....no one can dispute that, right???0 -
Define "healthy."
You know what it is. Don't be snide.
As Voltaire stated, "If you wish to converse with me, first define your terms."
However, HE was a snide SOB.
Oh, also Aristotle
"The first condition of the possibility of any argument whatever is that words should signify something both to the speaker and the hearer: without this there can be no reasoning with any one."
~ Aristotle as paraphrased by Sir Thomas Heath in Euclid's "Elements", Vol. I, p. 121
http://members.shaw.ca/robbercs/exordium.html0 -
Glazed?? LIke donuts? Those are healthy right? I mean.....no one can dispute that, right???
I'm a donut.0 -
Disagree. I've competed several times (6) and each and every competition I ate "clean" for 12-16 weeks. It didn't make me any healthier than I was already, it just allowed me to eat enough to be full (lots of fiber). Was it more nutrient dense? Possibly, but even "off season" I was reaching my macros/micros on a daily basis. Did it want me to change to a "clean" eating regimen? NOPE, because I actually deleted a lot of the cultural foods I ate off season.I agree with what you are saying. I would go further as to say both are relevant. Eating huge portions of anything are not likely to help. I don't think those is the opposite camp will be convinced to eat clean until they experience it for themselves. Eating a clean diet changes your whole life. And we can preach it and advise to others, but really we can only help ourselves. What most people what to hear is the can eat whatever they want in any quantity and never leave their couches and some magic bullet will come along and overnight everything will be perfect. I have explored this site a bit and I sure your sentiments.
I've not competed since I 28 and in that time I've been able to eat whatever I want and staying within 10lbs-15lbs of my "off season" weight for the last 22 years. Am I any less healthy? Doubt it since not much has changed in my fitness regimen, nor has any physical assessments come back with negative results.
What I don't think people who are in the "clean eating" group understand is that the body DOESN'T distinguish between a multigrain piece of processed bread or one that "organically" baked and made in the digestion process. It breaks both down to the it's simplest forms and digests and absorbs available macro and nutrients.That's it. No special process is needed to decipher if it's whole or processed.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Define "healthy."
You know what it is. Don't be snide.
Actually, it's a very valid question. As we all know food can only be healthful and not healthy, so healthy is a state of being. That means it may actually be a personal definition of what we define as healthy.
For myself, I define healthy as normal ranged lab values and biochemical markers. Normal blood pressure, normal blood sugar, and not feeling a general malaise. I also define is as being within a normal body mass index. Which means I must portion control, exercise, get enough rest, get enough fluids, and try to manage my addictive nature to achieve health.0 -
Hmmm. You are what you eat.
Guess I'mma bowl of count chocula. ♡ yum yum yum
wanna share that and I'll share my Milk Duds with you??
Yes plz:flowerforyou:
Then, we can have some
that would be perfect IF we could add bacon to it! Otherwise, I am falling for youuuuuuu!
I'll get it started
Omg...can I pleeeease join in on this?! I promise I won't become clingy afterwards.0 -
Glazed?? LIke donuts? Those are healthy right? I mean.....no one can dispute that, right???
I'm a donut.
Mmmmmmm!0 -
What about fish?0
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So OP is complaining that when someone asked for weight loss advice, and she gave them irrelevant cleaning eating advice, this advice was pointed out as being irrelevant.
And this was wrong because...?
Isnt it linked though? If eating cleaner helps you get more food, which is better for you , provides more energy, keeps you feeling fuller for longer, then that helps with being able to stick to your diet and aids weight loss. Notwithstanding the overall calorie deficit.
Btw as someone new to MFP is this one of those recurring threads?
From page 1: just for you
http://www.healthylivingheavylifting.com/the-perils-of-clean-eating/
Hopefully this provides some insight. Best of luck.0 -
So OP is complaining that when someone asked for weight loss advice, and she gave them irrelevant cleaning eating advice, this advice was pointed out as being irrelevant.
And this was wrong because...?
Isnt it linked though? If eating cleaner helps you get more food, which is better for you , provides more energy, keeps you feeling fuller for longer, then that helps with being able to stick to your diet and aids weight loss. Notwithstanding the overall calorie deficit.
Btw as someone new to MFP is this one of those recurring threads?
The person in question was not expressing problems staying full. She may have needed more experience with MFP's tricks of logging food and exercise accurately, and been eating more than she thought.
It is entirely possible that she would have been unsatiated on her existing diet once fixing the logging, but that is not the case for everyone. It is also possible that she would have expressed an interest in eating more home cooked foods or the like or asked for nutrition tips. But she did not.
Thus, the question is whether the OP should have told her that she HAD TO eat differently in order to lose weight. IMO, providing false rather than factual information--in essence, lying to people--is never right nor a good idea, even if you think it's in their best interest.0
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