Sorry I'm Not Sorry - I gotta rant!
Replies
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Define "healthy."
Oooo. I'll do it.
Healthy body fat percentage.
Fit enough to perform well in daily life, walk a few blocks, up a couple of flights of stairs.
Strong enough to again, live life, be able to lift groceries and children, move small pieces of furniture, etc.
Low instances of illness
Lack of fatigue
Regular digestion
Moderate blood pressure
Acceptable blood cholesterol and blood sugar levels
Healthy positives moods the majority of the time
Able to function emotionally in daily life
So, if someone has depression and cannot function emotionally in daily life, they're unhealthy?
Is this a trick question? If you can't function emotionally in daily life, are you healthy?
Mental and physical health are two different things.
Often Depression/ and other mental health issues may effect your physical health. being depressed though not making you physically ILL. it makes you lethargic, and self destructive. It isnt black and white at all. Though I suffer from depression, and I can run two miles before I have to take a sit back, and I also have a high body fat % at 19.5% and I keep trucking. So again, we have a grey area, that happens to be subject to the individual. So you're both right.0 -
I think the real question here is 'are you all about the bass?'
A song with no treble would be so sad, though0 -
But they go hand in hand in OVERALL health, no?Define "healthy."
Oooo. I'll do it.
Healthy body fat percentage.
Fit enough to perform well in daily life, walk a few blocks, up a couple of flights of stairs.
Strong enough to again, live life, be able to lift groceries and children, move small pieces of furniture, etc.
Low instances of illness
Lack of fatigue
Regular digestion
Moderate blood pressure
Acceptable blood cholesterol and blood sugar levels
Healthy positives moods the majority of the time
Able to function emotionally in daily life
So, if someone has depression and cannot function emotionally in daily life, they're unhealthy?
Is this a trick question? If you can't function emotionally in daily life, are you healthy?
Mental and physical health are two different things.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Sure. But labeling someone as "unhealthy" if they are only mentally unhealthy doesn't seem right. Nor does labeling someone unhealthy if they are mentally sound but physically unhealthy.
I don't think there is a right definition for "healthy", because everyone's is going to be different.0 -
I think the real question here is 'are you all about the bass?'
"I aint no size 2!" haha love it!0 -
Do you realise how tied the mind and body actually are?Define "healthy."
Oooo. I'll do it.
Healthy body fat percentage.
Fit enough to perform well in daily life, walk a few blocks, up a couple of flights of stairs.
Strong enough to again, live life, be able to lift groceries and children, move small pieces of furniture, etc.
Low instances of illness
Lack of fatigue
Regular digestion
Moderate blood pressure
Acceptable blood cholesterol and blood sugar levels
Healthy positives moods the majority of the time
Able to function emotionally in daily life
So, if someone has depression and cannot function emotionally in daily life, they're unhealthy?
Is this a trick question? If you can't function emotionally in daily life, are you healthy?
Mental and physical health are two different things.
That's true but getting down to my ideal weight isn't going to cure my bipolar disorder, depressive issorder, or asbergers. I'll look good but i'll still be nuttier than a fruitcake.0 -
Okay...someone is going to have to dumb this down for me, because I do not understand the backlash to the OP.
If someone asks me for suggestions because they are not losing weight...and I respond by saying "try to add more fruits and vegetables to your diet"...I would be wrong in telling them this?
what youve got here is an OP who seems to have her panties in a wad over the fact that people eat whatever they want, and claims that they are not "healthy"
the backlash comes from those of us who enjoy fried foods, pizza, ice cream, and fast food who also happen to be highly successful in losing weight.
OP, for some reason, felt the need to come on here and flap her gums to reprimand people for eating "junk".
i probably missed something in there, but thats the short end of it.
edit: as to your question about adding fruits or veggies. you'd need more info about WHY theyre not losing before you go suggesting adding more food. chances are good that the person asking said question is not maintaining a deficit.0 -
Okay...someone is going to have to dumb this down for me, because I do not understand the backlash to the OP.
If someone asks me for suggestions because they are not losing weight...and I respond by saying "try to add more fruits and vegetables to your diet"...I would be wrong in telling them this?
It would be wrong because adding vegetables and fruit to your diet doesn't guarantee that you're eating in a deficit. Would those things be good to incorporate to one's overall diet? Absolutely. But replacing one thing with another isn't the magic answer.
Taking a deeper look at logging accuracy, overestimating calorie burns, random unlogged bites, licks, drunks here or there that add up. The possibility of adding a digital food scale to weight solids. Ensuring one is logging accurately is the absolute key to weight loss.0 -
Define "healthy."
Oooo. I'll do it.
Healthy body fat percentage.
Fit enough to perform well in daily life, walk a few blocks, up a couple of flights of stairs.
Strong enough to again, live life, be able to lift groceries and children, move small pieces of furniture, etc.
Low instances of illness
Lack of fatigue
Regular digestion
Moderate blood pressure
Acceptable blood cholesterol and blood sugar levels
Healthy positives moods the majority of the time
Able to function emotionally in daily life
Oh man even if i manage all of them the last one is gonna sabotage me with all my mental issues lol. Frankly it boils down to eat what you want in moderation. You cant' trust what researchers or doctors say, they change their minds every time someone new waves a check under their noses to pay for the research.
As I've mentioned before, getting regular exercise is going to affect ALL of these factors a lot more than eliminating "refined flours and sugars"0 -
Guess what Arnold Schwarzenegger drank and ate during his Mr. Olympia days...
It wasn't clean eating thats for sure. (Drank a lot of pop, hot dogs, etc)
And? Is there a point? Our lives as opposed to his extreme, torturous and yes, steroid addled one? Go ahead and try it.0 -
The WHO definition of health:
But they go hand in hand in OVERALL health, no?Define "healthy."
Oooo. I'll do it.
Healthy body fat percentage.
Fit enough to perform well in daily life, walk a few blocks, up a couple of flights of stairs.
Strong enough to again, live life, be able to lift groceries and children, move small pieces of furniture, etc.
Low instances of illness
Lack of fatigue
Regular digestion
Moderate blood pressure
Acceptable blood cholesterol and blood sugar levels
Healthy positives moods the majority of the time
Able to function emotionally in daily life
So, if someone has depression and cannot function emotionally in daily life, they're unhealthy?
Is this a trick question? If you can't function emotionally in daily life, are you healthy?
Mental and physical health are two different things.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Sure. But labeling someone as "unhealthy" if they are only mentally unhealthy doesn't seem right. Nor does labeling someone unhealthy if they are mentally sound but physically unhealthy.
I don't think there is a right definition for "healthy", because everyone's is going to be different.
Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.
Since you seem to have missed it the first time.0 -
Totally explains why Asians in Asia live longer lives, and don't have the same weight issues as Americans, they eat less sodium.......................................................not really. I'm betting the average Asian takes in 4500 mg of sodium a day. You'd think that that much sodium would thin the population down. Nope.I am a student in the healthcare field, You are very correct, it is about what you eat, much more than just calorie intake. If you eat fast food the amount of sodium alone you would intake will put water weight on you, destroy your kidneys, and not to mention cause hypertension, swelling in joints, and eventually flat out kill you, even if you're perfect weight # on scale to your height.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Define "healthy."
You know what it is. Don't be snide.
I wasn't being snide, it's a valid question. If you are going to label someone as healthy, you need to have specific, measurable criteria as a basis for comparison to determine that label. If you read through and see the OP's response, her criteria are completely subjective and based on her views. Not to mention that people doing the things she is railing against could easily meet those same ambiguous criteria, making her entire argument completely worthless.
But your response was swift and you know you have come across this argument before, so you knew what was meant by "healthy". So we don't really need to define healthy, per say, but rather what she meant by it. I believe she is saying that a reasonable diet should be nutritionally sound as opposed to all junk and processed food. This has been called eating healthy in nutrition circles. So what is it? I myself believe and practice balance and limitations. I know I cannot partake in ice cream at all 3 meals and hope to keep my health in check. I cannot buy a tub of lard and eat 2000 calories of it daily and hope to live very long. My body would not get it's much needed nutrients. Would I still lose weight in a deficit of purely lard? I don't think so. My machine would not be getting the proper fuels needed for it to function. I know this is extreme, but it is the very thinking being propagated by so many that do not know better. I totally believe in having a well rounded eating plan, even with pizza, chips at times, meat and so on, BUT IN MODERATION. We need to stop calling these treats, we are not circus animals. We don't really deserve treats after how some of us have treated food and become morbidly obese, myself included. Cheat days? What is that? Who are we cheating? We have weight to lose! And using food as a reward? Don't get me started on that.
OP stated "minimal to no refined sugar and flour."
You are not eating healthy according to her definition.0 -
Define "healthy."
You know what it is. Don't be snide.
I wasn't being snide, it's a valid question. If you are going to label someone as healthy, you need to have specific, measurable criteria as a basis for comparison to determine that label. If you read through and see the OP's response, her criteria are completely subjective and based on her views. Not to mention that people doing the things she is railing against could easily meet those same ambiguous criteria, making her entire argument completely worthless.
But your response was swift and you know you have come across this argument before, so you knew what was meant by "healthy". So we don't really need to define healthy, per say, but rather what she meant by it. I believe she is saying that a reasonable diet should be nutritionally sound as opposed to all junk and processed food. This has been called eating healthy in nutrition circles. So what is it? I myself believe and practice balance and limitations. I know I cannot partake in ice cream at all 3 meals and hope to keep my health in check. I cannot buy a tub of lard and eat 2000 calories of it daily and hope to live very long. My body would not get it's much needed nutrients. Would I still lose weight in a deficit of purely lard? I don't think so. My machine would not be getting the proper fuels needed for it to function. I know this is extreme, but it is the very thinking being propagated by so many that do not know better. I totally believe in having a well rounded eating plan, even with pizza, chips at times, meat and so on, BUT IN MODERATION. We need to stop calling these treats, we are not circus animals. We don't really deserve treats after how some of us have treated food and become morbidly obese, myself included. Cheat days? What is that? Who are we cheating? We have weight to lose! And using food as a reward? Don't get me started on that.
I was asking what she meant by it. If you read through the thread, people have varying definitions of healthy. This was the OP's response:Well, if you actually need me to define "healthy" for you, then here it is:
adjective, healthier, healthiest.
1. possessing or enjoying good health or a sound and vigorous mentality:
"a healthy body; a healthy mind."
That's how the dictionary defines. If that doesn't satisfy you, then my definition of healthy is being able to sleep restfully through the night, having the energy to make it through the day without needing to consume caffeine/sugar, pooping regularly, feeling positive, and happy, and knowing that, barring any chronic/unexpected diseases, you are going to look forward to long life.
If neither of those help you in your search for healthy, I'm not sure what will.
As I said before, it is completely ambiguous, subjective, and does not hold up to the standard of specific, measurable criteria. Nor does it match what you think she meant, nor does it match what she said in her OP, because her definition of healthy does not speak to food consumption beyond "having the energy to make it through the day without needing to consume caffeine/sugar." By her definition, I could eat 600 calories per day, and as long as I'm not falling over from lack of energy or consuming caffeine/sugar, I'm healthy. Now, we all know that I wouldn't be healthy doing that, nor do I think she is implying in any way that I would, but this is where the importance of defining terms comes in.0 -
Do you realise how tied the mind and body actually are?Define "healthy."
Oooo. I'll do it.
Healthy body fat percentage.
Fit enough to perform well in daily life, walk a few blocks, up a couple of flights of stairs.
Strong enough to again, live life, be able to lift groceries and children, move small pieces of furniture, etc.
Low instances of illness
Lack of fatigue
Regular digestion
Moderate blood pressure
Acceptable blood cholesterol and blood sugar levels
Healthy positives moods the majority of the time
Able to function emotionally in daily life
So, if someone has depression and cannot function emotionally in daily life, they're unhealthy?
Is this a trick question? If you can't function emotionally in daily life, are you healthy?
Mental and physical health are two different things.
That's true but getting down to my ideal weight isn't going to cure my bipolar disorder, depressive issorder, or asbergers. I'll look good but i'll still be nuttier than a fruitcake.
They can be tied in, but they are not entirely intertwined.
I have depression, and sometimes don't even want to get out of bed. But physically I am "healthy", by the standards outlined in this thread. By that logic, I am unhealthy because I am diagnosed with a mental illness that *sometimes* makes it difficult for me to function?
Right.0 -
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I don't think anyone implied an automatic cure for one when the other got in balance. We were working on defining health.
Do you realise how tied the mind and body actually are?Define "healthy."
Oooo. I'll do it.
Healthy body fat percentage.
Fit enough to perform well in daily life, walk a few blocks, up a couple of flights of stairs.
Strong enough to again, live life, be able to lift groceries and children, move small pieces of furniture, etc.
Low instances of illness
Lack of fatigue
Regular digestion
Moderate blood pressure
Acceptable blood cholesterol and blood sugar levels
Healthy positives moods the majority of the time
Able to function emotionally in daily life
So, if someone has depression and cannot function emotionally in daily life, they're unhealthy?
Is this a trick question? If you can't function emotionally in daily life, are you healthy?
Mental and physical health are two different things.
That's true but getting down to my ideal weight isn't going to cure my bipolar disorder, depressive issorder, or asbergers. I'll look good but i'll still be nuttier than a fruitcake.0 -
I think it is relevant on a health site to try to find common ground. Don't you? Debating a definition clearly means that not everyone is on the same page yet.Stop arguing over the minutiae of your particular definitions for common terms!
I agree but debating and discussing definitions to come to understanding of the varieties of meanings one assigns a term is not arguing over minutiae.
For example, "clean" eating. I try to stay relatively "clean" in my eating. I try to keep processed sugars, oils, starches, thickeners, etc. to a minimum in my diet. I am not following the specific dicta of some author who claims ownership over the definition of "clean." These are two different definitions for the same term. Both have validity in certain contexts. Both are fraught with ambiguity as to both meaning and science. Recognizing ambiguity is important. Leaping on someone and telling them use of the term is dim, dumb, or just plain wrong without explanation is not productive.0 -
Here is my 2 cents worth. I mostly eat well balanced meals. Stay with in my calories. I decided to buy a box of lucky charms cerial. I weighed and measured my portions throughout the week, never going over my limits. Come weight day I was up 2 lbs. Coincidence, maybe, but for what other reason did I gain?0
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The WHO definition of health:
But they go hand in hand in OVERALL health, no?Define "healthy."
Oooo. I'll do it.
Healthy body fat percentage.
Fit enough to perform well in daily life, walk a few blocks, up a couple of flights of stairs.
Strong enough to again, live life, be able to lift groceries and children, move small pieces of furniture, etc.
Low instances of illness
Lack of fatigue
Regular digestion
Moderate blood pressure
Acceptable blood cholesterol and blood sugar levels
Healthy positives moods the majority of the time
Able to function emotionally in daily life
So, if someone has depression and cannot function emotionally in daily life, they're unhealthy?
Is this a trick question? If you can't function emotionally in daily life, are you healthy?
Mental and physical health are two different things.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Sure. But labeling someone as "unhealthy" if they are only mentally unhealthy doesn't seem right. Nor does labeling someone unhealthy if they are mentally sound but physically unhealthy.
I don't think there is a right definition for "healthy", because everyone's is going to be different.
Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.
Since you seem to have missed it the first time.
Would have respected your response, had it not been for the snark at the end.0 -
Born again clean eaters ....... Need I say more0
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You'd short on your answer. They could add fruit and vegetables, but if it's on top the current calories they are already eating (where they aren't losing weight), chances are they'll gain weight. "Clean eating" or not, it still comes down to CICO.Okay...someone is going to have to dumb this down for me, because I do not understand the backlash to the OP.
If someone asks me for suggestions because they are not losing weight...and I respond by saying "try to add more fruits and vegetables to your diet"...I would be wrong in telling them this?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Do you realise how tied the mind and body actually are?Define "healthy."
Oooo. I'll do it.
Healthy body fat percentage.
Fit enough to perform well in daily life, walk a few blocks, up a couple of flights of stairs.
Strong enough to again, live life, be able to lift groceries and children, move small pieces of furniture, etc.
Low instances of illness
Lack of fatigue
Regular digestion
Moderate blood pressure
Acceptable blood cholesterol and blood sugar levels
Healthy positives moods the majority of the time
Able to function emotionally in daily life
So, if someone has depression and cannot function emotionally in daily life, they're unhealthy?
Is this a trick question? If you can't function emotionally in daily life, are you healthy?
Mental and physical health are two different things.
That's true but getting down to my ideal weight isn't going to cure my bipolar disorder, depressive issorder, or asbergers. I'll look good but i'll still be nuttier than a fruitcake.
Getting down to your ideal weight also won't cure
- Skin Cancer
- Diabetes
- Dandruff
- Herpes
- Parkinson's
- Etc.0 -
Yeah...I get it. I agree with you. I have to pay attention to all the macros, not just calories. If I focus on strictly calories in/calories out, I won't lose.
if you burn more than you consume....you will.
If it were that easy, I would be skinny. If that works for you, then that is excellent. I must be the exception to the rule. I have tried to lose weight every way imaginable (with the exception of surgery). I'm not saying I eat clean. I still eat some processed foods. I am just saying, I personally need to pay attention to the whole picture in order to be successful. Counting calories alone will sabotage me every time. I have learned this by trial and error. I am sorry if you don't believe me, but it is true.
so then you're not arguing against the fact that if one burns more than they consume, they will lose weight.
your issue is that you cant seem to keep your cals below your burn.
fair enough.
i thought you were saying that you were eating at a deficit and not losing weight.
I am arguing that I have eaten at a deficit before and not lost weight. I am also saying that eating processed foods doesn't fill me up like healthier options do. I am also saying that I have previously gone over my calorie limit due to still being hungry an hour after eating processed foods. I am also saying that I have damn near starved myself, and still not lost weight.
My question is, why are you disagreeing with how my body works? It seems that you know nothing about me or my ability to lose weight...and people like YOU make me dislike this site. Not people like the OP.0 -
It wasn't snark! I just added it as explanation for someone, who might have seen it already and wondered why I posted it again. I take health very seriously and wouldn't dream of being snarky in this context. Sorry about the confusion!
The WHO definition of health:
But they go hand in hand in OVERALL health, no?Define "healthy."
Oooo. I'll do it.
Healthy body fat percentage.
Fit enough to perform well in daily life, walk a few blocks, up a couple of flights of stairs.
Strong enough to again, live life, be able to lift groceries and children, move small pieces of furniture, etc.
Low instances of illness
Lack of fatigue
Regular digestion
Moderate blood pressure
Acceptable blood cholesterol and blood sugar levels
Healthy positives moods the majority of the time
Able to function emotionally in daily life
So, if someone has depression and cannot function emotionally in daily life, they're unhealthy?
Is this a trick question? If you can't function emotionally in daily life, are you healthy?
Mental and physical health are two different things.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Sure. But labeling someone as "unhealthy" if they are only mentally unhealthy doesn't seem right. Nor does labeling someone unhealthy if they are mentally sound but physically unhealthy.
I don't think there is a right definition for "healthy", because everyone's is going to be different.
Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity.
Since you seem to have missed it the first time.
Would have respected your response, had it not been for the snark at the end.0 -
They can be tied in, but they are not entirely intertwined.
I have depression, and sometimes don't even want to get out of bed. But physically I am "healthy", by the standards outlined in this thread. By that logic, I am unhealthy because I am diagnosed with a mental illness that *sometimes* makes it difficult for me to function?
Right.
I would say, that you are not completely "healthy" no. But it's not black and white. And mental illness is certainly not your fault and if you are getting treatment then, sure, you could be classified as mostly healthy. I'm not trying to insult anyone.
I have generically borderline to high blood pressure. Yes, this keeps me from being completely "healthy" but I can still be mostly healthy. A lot of mostly healthy people get cancer, again not their fault, but I wouldn't call them healthy after that diagnoses.0 -
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Sure. But labeling someone as "unhealthy" if they are only mentally unhealthy doesn't seem right. Nor does labeling someone unhealthy if they are mentally sound but physically unhealthy.
I don't think there is a right definition for "healthy", because everyone's is going to be different.
Mental and phsyical health are different you can be one without being the other. If you have a mental health issue you have it plain and simple. Nothing to do with about it seeming right.
If you have any or a number of the following, then a Dr and most people would consider that person to be unhealthy, although its relative to the person who has none of these problems.
Overweight and obesity
Malnutrition
Iron-deficiency anemia
Heart disease
High blood pressure
Dyslipidemia (poor lipid profiles)
Type 2 diabetes
Osteoporosis
Oral disease
Constipation
Diverticular disease
Some cancers0 -
You haven't eaten at a deficit then. It is physically impossible for your body to take in less calories than it expends and not lose weight. I am being literal here. It is physically impossible.Yeah...I get it. I agree with you. I have to pay attention to all the macros, not just calories. If I focus on strictly calories in/calories out, I won't lose.
if you burn more than you consume....you will.
If it were that easy, I would be skinny. If that works for you, then that is excellent. I must be the exception to the rule. I have tried to lose weight every way imaginable (with the exception of surgery). I'm not saying I eat clean. I still eat some processed foods. I am just saying, I personally need to pay attention to the whole picture in order to be successful. Counting calories alone will sabotage me every time. I have learned this by trial and error. I am sorry if you don't believe me, but it is true.
so then you're not arguing against the fact that if one burns more than they consume, they will lose weight.
your issue is that you cant seem to keep your cals below your burn.
fair enough.
i thought you were saying that you were eating at a deficit and not losing weight.
I am arguing that I have eaten at a deficit before and not lost weight. I am also saying that eating processed foods doesn't fill me up like healthier options do. I am also saying that I have previously gone over my calorie limit due to still being hungry an hour after eating processed foods. I am also saying that I have damn near starved myself, and still not lost weight.
My question is, why are you disagreeing with how my body works? It seems that you know nothing about me or my ability to lose weight...and people like YOU make me dislike this site. Not people like the OP.
You weren't at a deficit, simple as that.0 -
Balanced diets with a calorie total less than you've burned. End. Of. Story.0
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I fail to see your point, tigger.
Sure. But labeling someone as "unhealthy" if they are only mentally unhealthy doesn't seem right. Nor does labeling someone unhealthy if they are mentally sound but physically unhealthy.
I don't think there is a right definition for "healthy", because everyone's is going to be different.
Mental and phsyical health are different you can be one without being the other. If you have a mental health issue you have it plain and simple. Nothing to do with about it seeming right.
If you have any or a number of the following, then a Dr and most people would consider that person to be unhealthy, although its relative to the person who has none of these problems.
Overweight and obesity
Malnutrition
Iron-deficiency anemia
Heart disease
High blood pressure
Dyslipidemia (poor lipid profiles)
Type 2 diabetes
Osteoporosis
Oral disease
Constipation
Diverticular disease
Some cancers0
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