The single biggest cause of male deaths...
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That's very interesting. Funny, in the last year I've heard of people I know and know of killing themselves and they have all been men. I think there were about 5.
They were in 12-step programs, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
If they were in the step program for drugs or alcohol they did not take it seriously. That program is very helpful.
It's only helpful if you don't fall off the wagon. You're abandoned if you do, which is when you need your support system the most.
You can't say they didn't take it seriously. The last meeting I went to, to check out to bring said friends too, I was shocked at the amount of nonsense and scary religious claptrap that was being spouted. I just accepted it when I was in my kate teens early twenties, I wouldn't dream of recommending it to anyone here in London. They'd run a mile,
The world is a very difficult place once you start substance abusing. I've lost many friends to suicide. For the males, it was related to substance abuse and a grandiose illusion of how successful and amazing everything should be, compared to the boring reality.
It's very sad that we can't all just lead simple lives, being happy being sober....or, getting medication and someone to watch over the administration of it.
I found that AA more than anything else would have religion tied to it. I went to NA instead to found people just being more real. It also helped that they were closer to my age and no one sobriety was longer than my age.
I saw people struggle with 12 steps. I saw more people succeed with it. I have seeing people do multiple rounds of 12 steps.0 -
I'm sorry, but the last time I checked, suicide was a huge problem for society regardless of what continent you are on. Picking apart a post for factual inaccuracies that is simply intended to emphasize the problem is just silly and ridiculous!
And regardless of actual 'ranking' in top deaths.
If it's in even the 'top 10', then it's happening way too frequently.0 -
That's very interesting. Funny, in the last year I've heard of people I know and know of killing themselves and they have all been men. I think there were about 5.
They were in 12-step programs, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
If they were in the step program for drugs or alcohol they did not take it seriously. That program is very helpful.
It's only helpful if you don't fall off the wagon. You're abandoned if you do, which is when you need your support system the most.
You can't say they didn't take it seriously. The last meeting I went to, to check out to bring said friends too, I was shocked at the amount of nonsense and scary religious claptrap that was being spouted. I just accepted it when I was in my kate teens early twenties, I wouldn't dream of recommending it to anyone here in London. They'd run a mile,
The world is a very difficult place once you start substance abusing. I've lost many friends to suicide. For the males, it was related to substance abuse and a grandiose illusion of how successful and amazing everything should be, compared to the boring reality.
It's very sad that we can't all just lead simple lives, being happy being sober....or, getting medication and someone to watch over the administration of it.
I don't know if the program is culturally different over there than here in the US. But typically, you choose a sponsor to bring you back if you fall off the wagon. If your friends didn't have a sponsor, then they weren't working the program correctly.
Also, since the program was created by a clergyman, that religious claptrap is the foundation that the program was built upon. The program is very accepting of other belief systems. No one is turned away or expected to convert.0 -
I'm sorry, but the last time I checked, suicide was a huge problem for society regardless of what continent you are on. Picking apart a post for factual inaccuracies that is simply intended to emphasize the problem is just silly and ridiculous!
And regardless of actual 'ranking' in top deaths.
If it's in even the 'top 10', then it's happening way too frequently.
Agreed. I'd like to add that if it's happening AT ALL, then it's happening too frequently.
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That's very interesting. Funny, in the last year I've heard of people I know and know of killing themselves and they have all been men. I think there were about 5.
They were in 12-step programs, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
If they were in the step program for drugs or alcohol they did not take it seriously. That program is very helpful.
It's only helpful if you don't fall off the wagon. You're abandoned if you do, which is when you need your support system the most.
You can't say they didn't take it seriously. The last meeting I went to, to check out to bring said friends too, I was shocked at the amount of nonsense and scary religious claptrap that was being spouted. I just accepted it when I was in my kate teens early twenties, I wouldn't dream of recommending it to anyone here in London. They'd run a mile,
The world is a very difficult place once you start substance abusing. I've lost many friends to suicide. For the males, it was related to substance abuse and a grandiose illusion of how successful and amazing everything should be, compared to the boring reality.
It's very sad that we can't all just lead simple lives, being happy being sober....or, getting medication and someone to watch over the administration of it.
I don't know if the program is culturally different over there than here in the US. But typically, you choose a sponsor to bring you back if you fall off the wagon. If your friends didn't have a sponsor, then they weren't working the program correctly.
Also, since the program was created by a clergyman, that religious claptrap is the foundation that the program was built upon. The program is very accepting of other belief systems. No one is turned away or expected to convert.
Well the 12 steps does not need to be done with a sponsor. I never really read the entire rule book. A sponsor is someone who has been there and is now sober. Longer sobriety the better a sponsor.0 -
That's very interesting. Funny, in the last year I've heard of people I know and know of killing themselves and they have all been men. I think there were about 5.
They were in 12-step programs, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
If they were in the step program for drugs or alcohol they did not take it seriously. That program is very helpful.
It's only helpful if you don't fall off the wagon. You're abandoned if you do, which is when you need your support system the most.
You can't say they didn't take it seriously. The last meeting I went to, to check out to bring said friends too, I was shocked at the amount of nonsense and scary religious claptrap that was being spouted. I just accepted it when I was in my kate teens early twenties, I wouldn't dream of recommending it to anyone here in London. They'd run a mile,
The world is a very difficult place once you start substance abusing. I've lost many friends to suicide. For the males, it was related to substance abuse and a grandiose illusion of how successful and amazing everything should be, compared to the boring reality.
It's very sad that we can't all just lead simple lives, being happy being sober....or, getting medication and someone to watch over the administration of it.
I found that AA more than anything else would have religion tied to it. I went to NA instead to found people just being more real. It also helped that they were closer to my age and no one sobriety was longer than my age.
I saw people struggle with 12 steps. I saw more people succeed with it. I have seeing people do multiple rounds of 12 steps.
Really? I know our AA and NA in my town are pretty much the same thing being religious based. The only difference is one group has alcoholics and the other group has narcotic addicts. I read an article about a group, it's still pretty small but they are growing across the country that deal with addiciton group councling. They aren't religious based and they focus on you healing yourself. And if you are doing their step program and you fall off the wagon, you don't start over with step one, you continue from where you are at and learn that you made a mistake and to forgive yourself and keep going.0 -
That's very interesting. Funny, in the last year I've heard of people I know and know of killing themselves and they have all been men. I think there were about 5.
They were in 12-step programs, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
If they were in the step program for drugs or alcohol they did not take it seriously. That program is very helpful.
It's only helpful if you don't fall off the wagon. You're abandoned if you do, which is when you need your support system the most.
You can't say they didn't take it seriously. The last meeting I went to, to check out to bring said friends too, I was shocked at the amount of nonsense and scary religious claptrap that was being spouted. I just accepted it when I was in my kate teens early twenties, I wouldn't dream of recommending it to anyone here in London. They'd run a mile,
The world is a very difficult place once you start substance abusing. I've lost many friends to suicide. For the males, it was related to substance abuse and a grandiose illusion of how successful and amazing everything should be, compared to the boring reality.
It's very sad that we can't all just lead simple lives, being happy being sober....or, getting medication and someone to watch over the administration of it.
I found that AA more than anything else would have religion tied to it. I went to NA instead to found people just being more real. It also helped that they were closer to my age and no one sobriety was longer than my age.
I saw people struggle with 12 steps. I saw more people succeed with it. I have seeing people do multiple rounds of 12 steps.
Really? I know our AA and NA in my town are pretty much the same thing being religious based. The only difference is one group has alcoholics and the other group has narcotic addicts. I read an article about a group, it's still pretty small but they are growing across the country that deal with addiciton group councling. They aren't religious based and they focus on you healing yourself. And if you are doing their step program and you fall off the wagon, you don't start over with step one, you continue from where you are at and learn that you made a mistake and to forgive yourself and keep going.
The people who relapse in my treatment always thought there sober time was gone. So they are pushing for your time does not get erase. I would hear people who was happy to be sober for seven days. Yes it was a accomplishment for them. Every Monday from the weekend was someone relapsing and you have to tell the group.0 -
in the UK where I live for men aged between 20 - 49 years old almost made me fall off my chair when I read what it was.
It is not road traffic accidents.
It is not heart disease.
It is not cancer.
Or even obesity.
It is suicide.
So, if you are a man and you struggle with these thoughts, if you feel despair and hopelessness and doubt please know you are not alone. It is not a reflection of your worth as a man to any degree. There is help out there for you and taking that help is just as important as looking after yourself physically.
CALM - The Campaign Against Living Miserably - is a UK charity which supports men who struggle in this area. Their website can be found here: https://www.thecalmzone.net/about-calm/what-is-calm/
Live long my brothers.
#mandown
What an excellent post. Thanks, OP.
I lost an amazing friend in high school for this very reason. It was insane, but as a freshman, the guy could fly a single engine plane, had refurbished a 60s era racing boat, was winning local motorcross events. He was the man. No one knew how lonely the guy was and how awful his home life was.
If you feel suicidal, here are a few promises: 1. you are not alone; 2. someone wants you alive.
Please, reach out.0 -
in the UK where I live for men aged between 20 - 49 years old almost made me fall off my chair when I read what it was.
It is not road traffic accidents.
It is not heart disease.
It is not cancer.
Or even obesity.
It is suicide.
So, if you are a man and you struggle with these thoughts, if you feel despair and hopelessness and doubt please know you are not alone. It is not a reflection of your worth as a man to any degree. There is help out there for you and taking that help is just as important as looking after yourself physically.
CALM - The Campaign Against Living Miserably - is a UK charity which supports men who struggle in this area. Their website can be found here: https://www.thecalmzone.net/about-calm/what-is-calm/
Live long my brothers.
#mandown
I believe that suicide does need a platform, is serious and should be taken serious, but, its purely not true that it is the number #1 reason of death in men 20-49 in the UK...
Not even close...
Leading causes of death in men, England and Wales, 2012
Rank Leading cause of death No. of men Percentage of men
1 Heart disease 37423 15.60%
2 Lung cancer 16698 7.00%
3 Emphysema/bronchitis 14378 6.00%
4 Stroke 14116 5.90%
5 Dementia and Alzheimer’s 13984 5.80%
6 Flu/pneumonia 11063 4.60%
7 Prostate cancer 9698 4.00%
8 Bowel cancer 7841 3.30%
9 Lymphoid cancer 6301 2.60%
10 Throat cancer 4603 1.90%
Not even on the Top 10 list... Once again, misinformation is king on the net...
Mark0 -
I just went back and read this forum. Debating the statistics? What a bunch of @ssholes.0
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I just went back and read this forum. Debating the statistics? What a bunch of @ssholes.
Pretty much sums it up.
It is the MFP forum way.0 -
Those data are for men of all ages. Young men (who tend not to die from cardiovascular disease, cancer, etc.) die from suicide.0
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YIKES.
Would love to know more about why this is the case. I'm going to do some research and see what I can find! What an epidemic.0 -
SWEET MERCIFUL CRAP WHO CARES ABOUT THE AGE RANGE OR WHAT IS ALL LUMPED TOGETHER AS A LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH.
The topic is about suicide and why so many males commit suicide. The number should be ZERO but it's not so its obviously a problem that needs to be discussed. Quit demanding that you be right and getting a topic off topic and then get it deleted and start talking about an actual issue!!!
ANYWAYS
Did you notice that when Robin Williams died suicide and depression were all over the news and people were writing a ton of articles about it. Now you see jack squat about suicide or depression stories because the media has moved on to other stuff? Which is sad, it should be talked about even if someone famous didn't just kill themselves.
This is actually a really good point. It was so sad and everyone couldn't believe that he struggled for so long. And suddenly... it's just gone. There's no more coverage, no articles posting on what he suffered from and why. I read an article that quoted another actor (I forget his name) saying that you could tell something was wrong with Robin when he was off-stage. Like something was off.... and yet he'd make a joke, so you'd think that everything would be okay.
The fact that Robin Williams, as a leading male actor, with resources beyond belief, felt that he was unable to get the help he needed speaks tremendous volumes about our society if we'd only take the time to listen.
It's actually kind of funny (not in ha-ha sense) how many issues could be solved if as human beings we'd be willing to communicate with each other.0 -
SWEET MERCIFUL CRAP WHO CARES ABOUT THE AGE RANGE OR WHAT IS ALL LUMPED TOGETHER AS A LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH.
The topic is about suicide and why so many males commit suicide. The number should be ZERO but it's not so its obviously a problem that needs to be discussed. Quit demanding that you be right and getting a topic off topic and then get it deleted and start talking about an actual issue!!!
ANYWAYS
Did you notice that when Robin Williams died suicide and depression were all over the news and people were writing a ton of articles about it. Now you see jack squat about suicide or depression stories because the media has moved on to other stuff? Which is sad, it should be talked about even if someone famous didn't just kill themselves.
It's actually kind of funny (not in ha-ha sense) how many issues could be solved if as human beings we'd be willing to communicate with each other.
I really do not know why either. I thing it is a traditional macho men crap that needs to be stopped.0 -
in the UK where I live for men aged between 20 - 49 years old almost made me fall off my chair when I read what it was.
It is not road traffic accidents.
It is not heart disease.
It is not cancer.
Or even obesity.
It is suicide.
So, if you are a man and you struggle with these thoughts, if you feel despair and hopelessness and doubt please know you are not alone. It is not a reflection of your worth as a man to any degree. There is help out there for you and taking that help is just as important as looking after yourself physically.
CALM - The Campaign Against Living Miserably - is a UK charity which supports men who struggle in this area. Their website can be found here: https://www.thecalmzone.net/about-calm/what-is-calm/
Live long my brothers.
#mandown
I believe that suicide does need a platform, is serious and should be taken serious, but, its purely not true that it is the number #1 reason of death in men 20-49 in the UK...
Not even close...
Leading causes of death in men, England and Wales, 2012
Rank Leading cause of death No. of men Percentage of men
1 Heart disease 37423 15.60%
2 Lung cancer 16698 7.00%
3 Emphysema/bronchitis 14378 6.00%
4 Stroke 14116 5.90%
5 Dementia and Alzheimer’s 13984 5.80%
6 Flu/pneumonia 11063 4.60%
7 Prostate cancer 9698 4.00%
8 Bowel cancer 7841 3.30%
9 Lymphoid cancer 6301 2.60%
10 Throat cancer 4603 1.90%
Not even on the Top 10 list... Once again, misinformation is king on the net...
Mark
Misquoting must be the Queen on the net then. Because if you scroll down, it specifically says
"Suicide and poisoning leading cause of death for 20-34 year olds. Suicide and injury/poisoning of undetermined intent were the leading cause of death for 20-34 year olds, for 26% of men and 13% of women. Factors that could lead to these deaths include: traumatic experiences, lifestyle choices such as drug or alcohol misuse, job insecurity and relationship problems." http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/vsob1/mortality-statistics--deaths-registered-in-england-and-wales--series-dr-/2012/sty-causes-of-death.html
On top of that, what is the point is arguing about stats and ignoring the issue at hand here? "Oh, it's not the top 10 killer, so who cares?!" Is that really the train of thought happening?
The fact that ANYONE has thought that the best thing that they could do for themselves and for the people around them is to KILL THEMSELVES shows that there is a major flaw somewhere and needs to be addressed.
Instead, a majority of you have to focus on the numerical misquote (which he admitted to and apologized for)?!
Next up, we're going to talk about child abuse, but since the statistic was off by a couple numbers, who cares if someone beats a child IF THE NUMBERS DON'T ADD UP.0 -
I just went back and read this forum. Debating the statistics? What a bunch of @ssholes.
Pretty much sums it up.
... and the #1 problem plaguing the MFP forums? It's a tie between Narcissism and Assholery! (No statistics needed to back that one up, just 4 years of experiential learning.)0 -
I find it funny how the cause of the post is swept under the rug with people arguing Stats. MFP forums always seem to amaze me.
:drinker:
It is like watching tv. MFP forums are entertaining.0 -
I completely agree that suicide (and mental health in general) needs more awareness, thank you for putting this out there.
I'm also wondering about the fallout and mental health of the people left behind. I briefly dated a guy (who I had known casually for almost a year) whose younger brother had committed suicide at the age of 9. He had hung himself in his closet, and he is the one who found him. We did have conversations about it, and the effect it had on his life. The relationship ended when he broke into my apartment through my second floor balcony because I was hanging out with two coworkers and he assumed I was sleeping with them (I was most definitely not). I found out years later that he also committed suicide.0
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