consult with a dietician - key lessons learne

Norma_24

Thank you for sharing! very helpful and answered some of my questions..

SamanthaSteg

Thanks so much for sharing what you learned! I'm definitely going to take some good information away from it and apply it to myself

DeniseGdz

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pyroxian

today i had my first meeting with a dietician named ryan, and i'd like to share with you some things that i learned. there are of course other differing points of view and numerous nutrition resources, but i think these topics are worth exploring/researching... so that we can make the most informed decision about our health.

the 3 things that ryan emphasized the most are:

1) POST WORKOUT NUTRITION
...
- a 20-oz orange/fruit punch gatorade with one scoop of whey powder (whey protein is most easily digested) - supposedly, it will taste like a creamsicle
...
his top pick was a mixture of gatorade/whey protein - which is absorbed most quickly.
...
2) FISH OIL
ryan is a huge advocate of fish oil, a source of omega-3 (linolenic acid) EPA. omega 3s are instrumental in reducing inflammation in our bodies, which is associated with CVDs, cancer, autoimmune diseases, diabetes, etc. given that my mom has cancer right now, this really made me pay attention.

...
i asked ryan about flax seeds, which i have a bag of sitting in my fridge. he said that's a source of alpha-linolenic acid, which the body will need to convert to omega 3. however, the conversion rate is under 10%, so it's best to get omega-3 straight from fish oil.
...

Thanks so much for sharing - definitely food for thought.

I've been using a post-workout/recovery drink made by tossing 2-3 Tbsp of orange gatorade powder along with a scoop of vanilla whey protein into a shaker with 12-16 ounces of water and while I realize it's purely anecdotal, I definitely noticed a significant decrease in muscle soreness in the days following hard workouts when I started using that blend. 2.5 tbsp of the gatorade concentrate mixes up as 20oz of "normal" gatorade, so this recipe is nearly identical to ryan's suggestion without the bulk (or environmental impact) of having to buy/transport/dispose of 20oz bottles. It's also delicious, and does taste very much like a creamsicle.

I would be interested in hearing his thoughts on flax oil v. flax seeds, as I have yet to find a fish oil supplement that I can both tolerate and which I trust to not be laden with heavy metals and pcb's... (if you visit him again and happen to think of it, I'd love to hear what he has to say there)
Again, thanks for sharing!

Krystle_V

BUMP

bmontgomery87

i know the topic of EATING BACK EXERCISE CALORIES is hugely debated on MFP! , but he agrees it is very important, and suggested that i eat 75% back right during post-workout nutrition so that it can be used directly for muscle building. the TIMING of eating back exercise calories is also important. he said many people might think they can eat a huge bowl of cereal much later in the day, given they burned a lot of calories.. but if you eat them back during other parts of the day and it is a large number of calories, the excess calories will be converted into fat. so eating them back during the post-workout window is ideal.

This is so terribly wrong, i don't see how the guy has a job.
Yes you should eat back excercise calories.
But the whole eating it back during post workout is also a myth. Digestion is an all day thing. The window of opportunity after weight training is much closer to 24 hours than 45 minutes.. eating 300 cals worth of carbs at 1 pm before your workout or at 7pm after your workout is still the same. Eating is before doesn't mean it stores as fat.
This guy is a quack. If you take 20 minutes to do some research you can see that he's feeding you BS.

I can eat a 2000 calorie breakfast. Then eat 600 calories after my workout. and it would be the same for me if I ate 2600 cals spaced throughout the day provided I hit the same macros (fat/protein/carbs)

FreeToBeMeIn2014

That's wonderful information. Thank you for sharing!!!

amfmmama

bump

bmontgomery87

bump

quit bumping this bad information. you're spreading myths to a large group of people. That's not doing them any favors

Shamrock40

Thanks for sharing. I normally consume anywhere from 1600-1900 calories per day, with my net between 1200-1500, depending on how much exercise I get in. I'm pretty satisfied, and I've lost quite a bit of weight, so it's working. I like the suggestion for the post-workout drink. I get so freaked out about drinking whey protein because I'm afraid it's going to bulk me up. I'm almost finished with the gigantor pack of slimfast shakes I bought, and that's what I've been drinking as a post-workout drink for the time being. I look forward to trying the gatorade/whey mix to see how it works.

taso42_DELETED

i know the topic of EATING BACK EXERCISE CALORIES is hugely debated on MFP! , but he agrees it is very important, and suggested that i eat 75% back right during post-workout nutrition so that it can be used directly for muscle building. the TIMING of eating back exercise calories is also important. he said many people might think they can eat a huge bowl of cereal much later in the day, given they burned a lot of calories.. but if you eat them back during other parts of the day and it is a large number of calories, the excess calories will be converted into fat. so eating them back during the post-workout window is ideal.

This is so terribly wrong, i don't see how the guy has a job.
Yes you should eat back excercise calories.
But the whole eating it back during post workout is also a myth. Digestion is an all day thing. The window of opportunity after weight training is much closer to 24 hours than 45 minutes.. eating 300 cals worth of carbs at 1 pm before your workout or at 7pm after your workout is still the same. Eating is before doesn't mean it stores as fat.
This guy is a quack. If you take 20 minutes to do some research you can see that he's feeding you BS.

I can eat a 2000 calorie breakfast. Then eat 600 calories after my workout. and it would be the same for me if I ate 2600 cals spaced throughout the day provided I hit the same macros (fat/protein/carbs)

Does anybody have any references, from either side of this argument? This is the first time I'm hearing anyone going against the idea of post-workout nutrition. If I google all I get is tons of information promoting it. The high GI carbs post workout things comes up over and over again.

SHBoss1673

It's sad to think that this "dietician" is getting paid for his advice.

That "window of opportunity" has been disproven time and time again. That information is years old. There is no anabolic window after lifting where you need to rush home and down a protein shake.

We call that broscience.

bmontgomery, I was hoping you could provide some of the studies you are referring to that refute this information. I'm looking for it but I can't find any. I've found quite a bit on post exercise glycogen recovery and muscle recovery, but I'm always open to alternate takes on a topic. For reference, here's a few I've found just by doing a quick ajcn search.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/61/4/968S.full.pdf+html?sid=267e31da-5881-4fd3-b3a2-3e1e3d60bcf9
(take special note of the section called: Timing of carbohydrate ingestion after exercise

http://www.ajcn.org/content/72/1/106.full.pdf+html?sid=267e31da-5881-4fd3-b3a2-3e1e3d60bcf9

http://www.ajcn.org/content/49/5/944.full.pdf+html?sid=cd1d81cf-3cc4-4de1-ad13-93fc1942670e


This is an area of study that today's science hasn't mastered yet, they're always finding new and different things that are going on in our bodies, research and studies find out a new chemical reaction on almost a weekly basis, so I don't doubt that you've read research that contradicts what that dietitian said. I will say this though, most nutritional literature that I've read follows pretty closely along with what was stated above. And I hesitate to denounce it without seeing something that would prove it wrong. That being the case, personally, I'd hedge my bets against calling them a quack, that's just my opinion.

Skinnyme87

good info!

SaraTonin

GREAT advice, all of it! I am sharing for sure.

kels67

bumo

corpus_validum

Does anybody have any references, from either side of this argument? This is the first time I'm hearing anyone going against the idea of post-workout nutrition. If I google all I get is tons of information promoting it. The high GI carbs post workout things comes up over and over again.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_nutrition/the_top_10_post_workout_nutrition_myths

Fit4Penny

Thank you so much for sharing all of this info!

sacfrazier

Thanks for all the information. I will come back and reread this later.

corpus_validum

3) NET CALORIES
ryan agreed with having NET calories be above BMR, so that i can lose weight in a healthy way.

I think you're getting NET calories mixed up here. I think most here on MFP consider it as follows

NET Calories = Total Daily Caloric Intake - Calories Expended by Exercise

So NET calories should be BELOW BMR for weight loss...NOT above

WomanofWorth

Thank you so much for sharing this information. It answered a lot of the questions I have had.

cabbie461

:noway: This is totally opposite to what I am doing and I am confused.:flowerforyou: When confused i get stressed. When stressed i eat. So to stop my stressing can you explain to me how eating more calories that your BMR (mine is 2337) allows you to lose weight. Are you saying that I should be eating above my BMR. I always thought that you are what you eat. More in than you are using = gain in weight. Less =Loss.

Balance is the most important and i do take on board the importance of fish oil in a Western diet. :flowerforyou:

SHBoss1673

3) NET CALORIES
ryan agreed with having NET calories be above BMR, so that i can lose weight in a healthy way.

I think you're getting NET calories mixed up here. I think most here on MFP consider it as follows

NET Calories = Total Daily Caloric Intake - Calories Expended by Exercise

So NET calories should be BELOW BMR for weight loss...NOT above

no no, BMR is not maintenance, you can still be above BMR and lose weight. In fact, as you approach a healthy fat level, you SHOULD be above BMR to keep the weight loss steady and healthy.

taso42_DELETED

I think a couple of you are confusing BMR with total daily calorie expenditure. BMR stands for basal metabolic rate. It is how many calories your body would burn "while in a coma". The moment you get out of bed, brush your teeth, go about your daily activities, you are burning more than your BMR. Even a sedentary person burns about 1.2 times their BMR just from living their life.

It makes intuitive sense that if you give your body less energy than it burns while in a coma, you are depriving it of vital fuel and nutrients. If you ate exactly your BMR, you would still be in a calorie deficit and would lose weight.

katyrose221

This was really interesting. I find myself naturally wanting to eat closer to 1500 calories on days when I don't track as well. It is like that is where my body wants to be. I will review my BMR and all that, but this is great. I will come back to this again later, I am sure.

becca0211

Thanks for sharing this!

jane77

thanks great info cant wait for the update

tj5000

Thanks for the info - very helpful

tam8374

Thanks so much for taking the time to type that all out. It was very informative.

Question though. How do I know if I am eating a high or low GI food? Is it on the label?

stormieweather

INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY OF SPORTS NUTRITION says:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2575187/?tool=pubmed


SUMMARY:

The scientific literature associated with nutrient timing is an extremely popular, and thus ever-changing, area of research. Upon reviewing the available literature, the following conclusions can be drawn at this point in time:

• Prolonged exercise (> 60 – 90 min) of moderate to high intensity exercise will deplete the internal stores of energy, and prudent timing of nutrient delivery can help offset these changes.

• During intense exercise, regular consumption (10 – 15 fl oz.) of CHO/electrolyte solution delivering 6 – 8% CHO (6 – 8 g CHO/100 ml fluid) should be consumed every 15 – 20 min to sustain blood glucose levels.

• Glucose, fructose, sucrose and other high-glycemic CHO sources are easily digested, but fructose consumption should be minimized as it is absorbed at a slower rate and increases the likelihood of gastrointestinal problems.

• The addition of PRO (0.15 – 0.25 g PRO/kg/day) to CHO at all time points, especially post-exercise, is well tolerated and may promote greater restoration of muscle glycogen.

• Ingestion of 6 – 20 grams of EAAs and 30 – 40 grams of high-glycemic CHO within three hours after an exercise bout and immediately before exercise have been shown to significantly stimulate muscle PRO synthesis.

• Daily post-exercise ingestion of a CHO + PRO supplement promotes greater increases in strength and improvements in lean tissue and body fat % during regular resistance training.

• Milk PRO sources (e.g. whey and casein) exhibit different kinetic digestion patterns and may subsequently differ in their support of training adaptations.

• Addition of Cr to a CHO + PRO supplement in conjunction with regular resistance training facilitates greater improvements in strength and body composition as compared with when no Cr is consumed.

• Dietary focus should center on adequate availability and delivery of CHO and PRO. However, including small amounts of fat does not appear to be harmful, and may help to control glycemic responses during exercise.

• Irrespective of timing, regular ingestion of snacks or meals providing both CHO and PRO (3: 1 CHO: PRO ratio) helps to promote recovery and replenishment of muscle glycogen.

Jwpawlowski

Great Post!!