StrongLifts 5x5

BR1986FB

Switching over to SL5x5 from the New Rules of Lifting program. NROL lifts were getting way to gimmicky moving through the stages.

Back to absolute basics (that WORK).

Welcome !

End6ame

FYI, I am not just pulling this out of the air. I have recently been doing a lot of studying and research into strength programming and am almost ready to tryout my own intermediate 5x5 program.

you're going to make up your own program? based somewhat around a 5X5 template i'm guessing?

How’d you guess? lol

I am working on an adaptation of Bill Starr/Madcow 5x5, which I will start performing myself in about two weeks. Don’t get me wrong, I think Madcow is a great program, I just think there are some areas that can be altered to get better results in the core lifts week to week. But I could also be wrong, and my adaptation could completely suck.

Once I complete one or two rounds (and still think it is a good program), I will do a write-up on it and make it available to others. This is my first attempt at any kind of programming, so if it sucks, I won’t be too let down.

myofibril

I was thinking about the whole "bicep curls for size" debate which took place a few days ago. Now I mostly work for strength although I do not use 5x5 myself. However, I can't deny a part of me likes training to be pretty as well, although it is a secondary goal.

Like was said before 5x5 is a methodology rather than a heavily precriptive programme so can be incorporated into many different scenarios. So....why not just incoporate a back off set (which is different to drop sets) into your training if you want to get in a bit of size as well?

So for example you would do your 5 sets of bench. Then you would add in one set of 20 at a weight you can manage. Of course this increases your training volume and time you spend under the bar. However you get strength and physique sculpting goals in one pop.

Of course if you want bicep size you will probably have to bit the bullet and do some isolation work. However, considering triceps are actually a bigger muscle group than biceps the question remains if you want big arms surely your time would be better off focusing on them...

Just something to consider.

End6ame

I was thinking about the whole "bicep curls for size" debate which took place a few days ago. Now I mostly work for strength although I do not use 5x5 myself. However, I can't deny a part of me likes training to be pretty as well, although it is a secondary goal.

Like was said before 5x5 is a methodology rather than a heavily precriptive programme so can be incorporated into many different scenarios. So....why not just incoporate a back off set (which is different to drop sets) into your training if you want to get in a bit of size as well?

So for example you would do your 5 sets of bench. Then you would add in one set of 20 at a weight you can manage. Of course this increases your training volume and time you spend under the bar. However you get strength and physique sculpting goals in one pop.

Of course if you want bicep size you will probably have to bit the bullet and do some isolation work. However, considering triceps are actually a bigger muscle group than biceps the question remains if you want big arms surely your time would be better off focusing on them...

Just something to consider.

Madcow is similar to what you are talking about, where you will perform a 1x8 set each week with lighter weight (I don’t see a whole lot of value lifting to 20 reps).

Now, I don’t want to open up the bicep can of worms again, but you don’t have to train in isolation to work biceps/triceps. chin-ups and dips would be a much better alternatives for those specific muscles and would provide additional benefits since they are still a compound movement.

BR1986FB

Now, I don’t want to open up the bicep can of worms again, but you don’t have to train in isolation to work biceps/triceps. chin-ups and dips would be a much better alternatives for those specific muscles and would provide additional benefits since they are still a compound movement.

Read an old article by Rippetoe on T-Nation (great site, btw) and I get the feeling that he's not really a fan of curls. The workout he was suggesting included deadlifts & chins for bicep work with (surprisingly) no bent rows (power cleans were substitutes to help deadlift). He made a comment to the effect of "if you HAVE to do curls (implying it was more of an ego or a 'want' vs necessity thing) do them at 'x' time and get them over with."

End6ame

Now, I don’t want to open up the bicep can of worms again, but you don’t have to train in isolation to work biceps/triceps. chin-ups and dips would be a much better alternatives for those specific muscles and would provide additional benefits since they are still a compound movement.

Read an old article by Rippetoe on T-Nation (great site, btw) and I get the feeling that he's not really a fan of curls. The workout he was suggesting included deadlifts & chins for bicep work with (surprisingly) no bent rows (power cleans were substitutes to help deadlift). He made a comment to the effect of "if you HAVE to do curls (implying it was more of an ego or a 'want' vs necessity thing) do them at 'x' time and get them over with."

He makes similar comments in Starting Strength. And no he is not a fan of barbell rows, I think they balance out the bench press nicely though since it is the exact opposite movement pattern.

myofibril

Madcow is similar to what you are talking about, where you will perform a 1x8 set each week with lighter weight (I don’t see a whole lot of value lifting to 20 reps).

Ok, I might get run our of town for mentioning "the pump" which you can induce working in the 8-12 rep range but in my experience tends to be maximised in the 13-20 rep range. Of course, a strength athlete wouldn't care about it as it has naff all to do with myofibrillar hypertrophy but if you want to maximise physique as well then working at a higher rep range does work.

myofibril

He made a comment to the effect of "if you HAVE to do curls (implying it was more of an ego or a 'want' vs necessity thing) do them at 'x' time and get them over with."

Pretty much agree. It's a vanity / ego thing in the main. If it takes up the bulk of your training you have to ask yourself "why?"

BR1986FB

Now, I don’t want to open up the bicep can of worms again, but you don’t have to train in isolation to work biceps/triceps. chin-ups and dips would be a much better alternatives for those specific muscles and would provide additional benefits since they are still a compound movement.

Read an old article by Rippetoe on T-Nation (great site, btw) and I get the feeling that he's not really a fan of curls. The workout he was suggesting included deadlifts & chins for bicep work with (surprisingly) no bent rows (power cleans were substitutes to help deadlift). He made a comment to the effect of "if you HAVE to do curls (implying it was more of an ego or a 'want' vs necessity thing) do them at 'x' time and get them over with."

He makes similar comments in Starting Strength. And no he is not a fan of barbell rows, I think they balance out the bench press nicely though since it is the exact opposite movement pattern.

Agreed. I have no problem with power cleans either but I'm getting enough workload from this program so I'm not adding them.

End6ame

Madcow is similar to what you are talking about, where you will perform a 1x8 set each week with lighter weight (I don’t see a whole lot of value lifting to 20 reps).

Ok, I might get run our of town for mentioning "the pump" which you can induce working in the 8-12 rep range but in my experience tends to be maximised in the 13-20 rep range. Of course, a strength athlete wouldn't care about it as it has naff all to do with myofibrillar hypertrophy but if you want to maximise physique as well then working at a higher rep range does work.

Yeah, I don’t really care as much about appearance as I do functionality, but maybe that will change once I get down to a 12-15% body fat, who knows. I think you would be best served treating them as opposite goals and train them in cycles; 3-6 months strength then 3-5 months for size.

BR1986FB

He made a comment to the effect of "if you HAVE to do curls (implying it was more of an ego or a 'want' vs necessity thing) do them at 'x' time and get them over with."

Pretty much agree. It's a vanity / ego thing in the main. If it takes up the bulk of your training you have to ask yourself "why?"

Agreed. When I first started training in a "bodybuilding fashion" (started out as a powerlifter) when I was 18 (25 years ago), I trained in the gym of a former Mr Eastern USA. His wife had me and my training partner doing upwards of 30 sets for bi's & tri's (60 sets total). I look back on this now, shake my head and think "no wonder she had us doing this, her husband was all jacked up on every drug on the planet. HE could train this way, we couldn't/shouldn't."

End6ame

Now, I don’t want to open up the bicep can of worms again, but you don’t have to train in isolation to work biceps/triceps. chin-ups and dips would be a much better alternatives for those specific muscles and would provide additional benefits since they are still a compound movement.

Read an old article by Rippetoe on T-Nation (great site, btw) and I get the feeling that he's not really a fan of curls. The workout he was suggesting included deadlifts & chins for bicep work with (surprisingly) no bent rows (power cleans were substitutes to help deadlift). He made a comment to the effect of "if you HAVE to do curls (implying it was more of an ego or a 'want' vs necessity thing) do them at 'x' time and get them over with."

He makes similar comments in Starting Strength. And no he is not a fan of barbell rows, I think they balance out the bench press nicely though since it is the exact opposite movement pattern.

Agreed. I have no problem with power cleans either but I'm getting enough workload from this program so I'm not adding them.

Power cleans are fantastic and are a great way to increase your deadlift. The power you build from cleans will translate into slower movements but the strength you build with slower movements does not translate (as mush) to faster movements.

myofibril

[ I think you would be best served treating them as opposite goals and train them in cycles; 3-6 months strength then 3-5 months for size.

If your personality is one which is rooted in rationality and logic then yes, absolutely. In pure efficiency terms this is the way to go.

However, you can't separate out the phsychological aspects of training from the physiological. It goes hand and hand and is ALWAYS there. Some people need to see a solidimprovement in physique at the same time to keep them going.

Personally I doubt you will change your training. You don't strike me as the type. I have been sub 10% bf and it is hugely overrated. I suppose it put my mind at rest as to what it would feel / look like but the loss of strength and muscle wasn't worth it in the final analysis.

myofibril

her husband was all jacked up on every drug on the planet. HE could train this way, we couldn't/shouldn't."

and therein lies the problem...the distortion of good training principles by bro-sciene.

End6ame

Switching over to SL5x5 from the New Rules of Lifting program. NROL lifts were getting way to gimmicky moving through the stages.

Back to absolute basics (that WORK).

I think NROL is a great intro program for women since programs like SL typically seem to be more intimidating at first glance, but NROL is definitely not built for longevity.

Welcome aboard and good luck!

End6ame

If your personality is one which is rooted in rationality and logic

Haha… I work in cyber security, so I am going to have to agree with this one.

I think I will end up with the same opinion as you on BF%. I think I will want to see what it looks/feels like, but I can’t imagine sacrificing my strength gains to maintain it and will probably try and maintain about 15%

freerange

Did my first 5x5 last night, feels kind of silly with such light weight, but I’m going to follow the plan is laid out, if all goes well that will put me doing 400lb squats by Christmas.

End6ame

Did my first 5x5 last night, feels kind of silly with such light weight, but I’m going to follow the plan is laid out, if all goes well that will put me doing 400lb squats by Christmas.

Do you have a rough idea of what your current 1RM or 5RM squat is?

While everyone is different, I would not expect to make it to 400lb squat without a couple of stalls. This will also take a lot of calories.

I made it to 245lb before stalling, stalled again at 295lbs and then hit 325lbs by the time I couldn’t progress any more on SL.

Barneystinson

her husband was all jacked up on every drug on the planet. HE could train this way, we couldn't/shouldn't."

and therein lies the problem...the distortion of good training principles by bro-sciene.

Hahahaha...lifting "bro-grams"

freerange

Did my first 5x5 last night, feels kind of silly with such light weight, but I’m going to follow the plan is laid out, if all goes well that will put me doing 400lb squats by Christmas.

Do you have a rough idea of what your current 1RM or 5RM squat is?

While everyone is different, I would not expect to make it to 400lb squat without a couple of stalls. This will also take a lot of calories.

I made it to 245lb before stalling, stalled again at 295lbs and then hit 325lbs by the time I couldn’t progress any more on SL.

Thanks for the info on the stalls, of course the 400 is not taking into account any stalls. And as for 1RM and 5RM, I have no idea. It's been so long since I was in any shape I don't even want to try for fear of hurting myself LOL