Intermittent Fasting Support Group?
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Which is better is very debatable. They work on the same principles. ESE's benefit is that it is very flexible and minimalist, while Leangains has a lot of other corollary guidelines in its program as far as what to eat, when to workout, how to change what you eat in relation to when you work out, what kinds of exercises will benefit you most, etc. Leangains-style fasting can still be adapted however you like too, though, it just won't be strictly in line with what has worked for Martin and his clients.
Not entirely true. The site has guidelines for people who workout in the morning to prevent excessive catabolism. Gives very broad guidelines on some macros to shoot for. Martin likes to use RPT style lifting but it is definitely not the only method. As long as you focus on the big compound lifts and continual improvement (weight or reps) then that is fine.
The one thing I do like with LG over ESE is that after a week or so you are in a routine again and the crazy hunger levels don't happen in the morning. When I did the 24hr fasts, as they were so random it seems to be a big shock to the system ie. people listening to my stomach growling from other offices
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Not entirely true. The site has guidelines for people who workout in the morning to prevent excessive catabolism. Gives very broad guidelines on some macros to shoot for. Martin likes to use RPT style lifting but it is definitely not the only method. As long as you focus on the big compound lifts and continual improvement (weight or reps) then that is fine.
The one thing I do like with LG over ESE is that after a week or so you are in a routine again and the crazy hunger levels don't happen in the morning. When I did the 24hr fasts, as they were so random it seems to be a big shock to the system ie. people listening to my stomach growling from other offices
Those are exactly the kind of guidelines I'm talking about, lol. Check the "Key Points" heading under the link I posted for more examples and schedules and such. By contrast, Brad has essentially no advice whatsoever about diet on feeding days other than the vague "Eat more fruits and vegetables, use spices instead of salt and sugar, and don't worry too much otherwise about what you eat. Eat normally and forget the fast happened" He also has little to no advice about workout timing, and practically none about workout content except that it be weight bearing/resistance exercise. I'm not saying that's better or worse than Martin, just pointing out the difference in approach. If you read some of his blog posts, it's clear that Martin is actually fairly rigid with his personal clients. It also quite apparently works, though.
I personally don't notice the shocks to my system you're talking about, but that may be because I started out doing every other day 24 hour fasts, and so got into a rhythm with that over several months before I stepped down to more infrequent fasts now. In fact, even now I am actually in a rhythm, I'm doing 2 feeding days to 1 fasting day, but I'm more flexible with moving the fasting day around sometimes if need be.0 -
Thanks for the replies guys - I'm looking at the sites now. Is it recommended to do a combination of both? 16/8 with a day of fasting? I think I'll try a week of both and see which fits my lifestyle best. But I'll do some reading on them both first. Thanks again
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Brad Pilon's take on longer than 24 hour fasts is not that they are necessarily bad, but that the extra benefits are not necessarily worth the extra struggle some people have with that extra time fasting. That being said, there is extra benefit, but not as much more as the 18-24 hour stretch brings. In other words the longer the fast the less the extra returns after about the 24 hour point, but there are still additional benefits.
I have done both, but find sleeping while already having fasted for the whole day is difficult for me currently. I used to be able to do it, but currently cannot. Maybe in the future I will be able to again. If you can do it, all power to you as it won't hurt.
My understanding from his book was that the 18-24 hour period is the time of greatest *acceleration* of fat burning and muscle sparing benefits. From the graphs I've seen in the book, it appears that fat burning continues to accelerate after that time, so benefits should continue to increase, just not at as steep a rate as in the 18-24 hour period. The way I look at it is, I've spent 24 hours getting to this favorable hormonal state, may as well take advantage of it for as long as possible. I haven't seen anywhere that he argued that the benefits become less after 24 hours, only that it's less flexible/convenient and you may be more likely to burn out and give up. If anything, I've seen research that shows that up to about 72 hours, the body continues to trend toward maximum fat burning and muscle sparing, entering more and more into ketosis. At that point it levels out for the long haul until fat is almost entirely used up, at which point protein in muscle is sacrificed much more liberally.
For me, I have little to no difficulty pushing through to 36 hours (more frequently it's 32, actually, but 36 is no problem). My hunger does not increase the longer I go, it's pretty stable after a certain point. The only reason I don't more often is that I can't really work out on my fast day unless I cut it short at 24 hours so I can get a post-workout meal in me. I feel like I'm wasting the workout somewhat if I don't, since my aim currently is muscle building and not fat loss.
I did not say that they stopped, just that they increase was not necessarily worth it for the difficulty many would have fasting that long. The increases continue up to 72 hours for most and they the metabolism starts to slow at about that point. I didn't say it was not good, just that the return for the time goes down.0 -
Alloranx: we're on the same page then
Nancy_hc: I wouldn't recommend trying both at the same time to start with. Give one a go, see how you like it and then try the other if you want.
I would say the first week or two are the hardest LG style. After that, it seems "normal".
I did ESE style first as well actually Alloranx. I could do it again as I sometimes stretch my fast a bit closer to 24hrs if I'm not actually that hungry yet. Just means a shorter eating window. Depends on how I'm feeling each day (and seems to be very dependent on the intensity of exercise I do.)0 -
Wow, I've missed a lot.
I'm back to the ESE style.
LG was just not working out for me, with my varied exercise schedule & such.0 -
So it seems that weight training is more recommended than cardio when doing this diet approach. I admittedly need to do more weight training and understand the benefits of it but am def a cardio junky and its an exercise routine that I've been able to stick with. Will I still see results if i stay cardio heavy with minimal weights? or is this something thats only/mainly beneficial when incorportated with weight training. My goal is weight loss, not gaining mass.0
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weight loss is easy. Create a calorie deficit through diet (and preferably exercise)
Fat loss requires:
calorie deficit through diet and exercise
adequate protein (I aim for 1g/lb of BW minimum)
resistance training
These are to promote the preservation of lean body mass.
The above is the case for "normal" eating patter or IF.0 -
BAH... good point Chris. It is weight loss ultimately but fat loss specifically.. *sigh.... you're guilting me into hitting the weights more. I'm usually good with one or the other. I can get a good weight routine going or a good cardio one. I'll need to find a good way to mix it up. BTW - starting my 16/8 routine today
I work out in the AMs so I've already eaten my meals for the day. I started looking at my food logs and realized I basically already do this, except normally I'll have a snack between now (my fasting start time) and bed. I'm going to be cutting that - well... adding it elsewhere... and i'll see how this works out. thanks for all the advice! 0 -
haha no probs
Doing some low intensity cardio after weights is generally good for recovery also. Personally, I do my "cardio" on my off days as I enjoy just going for walks/runs down the beach (and mma training when I'm not injured!) But whatever fits your schedule really.
I didn't quite understand the timing of your meals though. I have no idea what time it is where you are 0 -
my bad - guess it is confusing... let me re-word to say my workouts and meals will be at the beginning of my day rather than the end of my day. works out better for me that way For now at least. I like this bc it seems easy to change to whatever routine you have at that time.
I do a lot of running, its an easy thing to knock out for my work outs. But i think i'll sit down and try to find a good way to write in weights to my routine. i like to have things written out on paper so this task may need to be taken on tomorrow. Ok. some weights, maintain cardio, and IF... hopefully this will take my loss from 3-4lbs a month to 6-8 that would be super! I'll keep you all updated. 0 -
my bad - guess it is confusing... let me re-word to say my workouts and meals will be at the beginning of my day rather than the end of my day. works out better for me that way For now at least. I like this bc it seems easy to change to whatever routine you have at that time.
I do a lot of running, its an easy thing to knock out for my work outs. But i think i'll sit down and try to find a good way to write in weights to my routine. i like to have things written out on paper so this task may need to be taken on tomorrow. Ok. some weights, maintain cardio, and IF... hopefully this will take my loss from 3-4lbs a month to 6-8 that would be super! I'll keep you all updated.
If you are just starting weights, don't be too worried about the scale. Helps with body recomposition which doesn't necessarily mean a lower scale weight. This is why measurements/pics/mirror are a good thing to keep track of. Sounds like a good plan though.
Compound lifts (multi joint) are the best bang for buck movements. Focus on squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, rows and chinups (lat pull down if you can't) and you will be on a winner 0 -
I am wondering if IF is my natural preference. For ages (years) I have not eaten until about 1-2pm, then stopped around 9pm. In recent months I have started eating more regularly and suddenly I can't shift the weight???? Total calories is approximately equal, and I have added exercise, so the only change is the frequency of eating!0
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Wow! Cant believe how many people are doing this, I'm really surprised! I have just started the ESE method. Twice a week eating my last meal at 6pm and then not eating again until 6pm the next day. Its still early days yet for me to see any results but feel a real sense of achievement when I have completed my 24 hours. Again, like alot of people, I worry about telling anyone that I am fasting so its quite refreshing to see so my other IF'ers!0
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Sorry that was by mistake!!0 -
You know the one of the best parts about IF? Everything is backed by scientific studies. Diet myths busted!
I now know that I don't have to divide up a tiny 1200 calorie allowance into 5 or more "meals"
Not only do I have more calories per "eating" day because my deficit comes from my fast days, but if I want to eat the last 600 calories I have today in one big meal, there's nothing stopping me.
I can eat whenever I want to and not fear hunger. Freedom is sweet!0 -
Update! After 2 weeks of IF I've *finally* seen a change in the scale, (after ~3 months of no change in weight downward). Loving this so far! Breakfast is so overrated!
Additionally, it gets easier and easier to fast in the mornings. If the day is particularly tough I'll drink a cup of coffee at work and it'll carry me through.
I could have written this post. I do ESE and (after the first, very very hard time) have found it easier and easier. I dont like the idea of doing it everyday (legrains?) as I have tried working out fasted and it was crap so the twice a week method suits me better. One of those days is my day off gym day, the other day I work out in the afternoon (I much prefer morning workouts, which also fit better around my shift work)
This is brilliant. Brilliant.0 -
Wow, I've missed a lot.
I'm back to the ESE style.
LG was just not working out for me, with my varied exercise schedule & such.
ditto. plus its only twice a week, not every fricken day
I only go for 18-20 hours though. Might try 24 hours tomorrow. We will see. Am on night duty next week so rarely eat much anyway so if I am hungry at 18 hours i will eat.0 -
On the fasted training: its weird but I only do out once a week but I seem tip be getting used to out anyway. Set 20rm squats today fasted after 1.5hr walk & all my regular squats.0
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Would love to try this!0
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Bump0
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http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html
I'm starting 16/8 on Tuesday (Monday night). I'll figure out the exercise part after a few days :drinker:
PS you'll have to download google chrome browser to view that link correctly and easily.0 -
Hello Everyone!!! I have been reading your post and googling ESE, LG, IF, IIFYM, etc. My head is spinning. I've fasted for 4 days in the past and lost weight. I didn't eat until after 6pm but before 8pm because I try not eat late. There is scientific explaination behind fasting and I know it is true but right now I feel like Boo-Boo The Fool trying to understand the difference between the two fasting styles to better determine which would be more benefical. Someone please HELP me because I know this will help me. Thank you MFP family.0
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I ate this way for awhile a couple years ago and it worked out really well with my schedule. I am not a breakfast person and the idea of having to eat every 3 hours is tiring. I don't want to be eating all the time! I am going to try going back to this way of eating. For me, I think 20/4 will work best, following the Warrior Diet idea. I work 8am-5pm so my idea is to workout right after work and then have my eating phase between 7-10pm or 7-11pm, depending on when I go to bed.
If anyone wants to add me as a friend so I can have a bit of support and motivation, please feel free 0 -
I am trying this out starting today. Well I started thursday night and fasted for 14 hours and then over the weekend I didn't do to well. So starting fresh today. The last thing I ate was 10:30 last night so I'm going to try and make it 16 hours till 2:30 today. I would love to be able to do the 20/4 but right now it sounds impossible to me. Hopefully I can work my way up to that. So how do you guys incorporate workouts into this? and do you fast every day? I just want to get a feel for what works for everyone else who's tried it.0
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workout after work at 5:30 for me. And yes, every day. LG style.0
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workout after work at 5:30 for me. And yes, every day. LG style.
So what times do you eat between? do you eat before you workout? I work 8:30-5 so my workouts would be at about 5:30 as well.0 -
Another question. I know you can have tea/coffee/water during fasting hours but can I put a little bit of almond milk in my coffee? or should it black?0
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Another question. I know you can have tea/coffee/water during fasting hours but can I put a little bit of almond milk in my coffee? or should it black?
I didn't look for the exact article, but I remember Martin said he was a coffee fiend and a splash of milk won't hurt you.0
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