Meat

ilsie99

Soy is bad, mmmkay. (Unless it's organic, and fermented)

Soy is one of the hardest proteins to absorb.

Soy has phytoestrogens- i.e. compounds that act as estrogen in your body, and mess with your endocrine system.

95% of soy is LOADED with herbicide- even more so than regular produce. This is because most soy is genetically modified to resist RoundUp (a weed killer) so they can spray the ****ens out of it.

kater8er

Huh. I never knew that....thanks for the info! My mom will be interested in that...she puts soy in everything....I always heard it was really good for you. My friend is a vegetarian and loads up on the edamame at every single meal.

kbw414

"You should do some research on the greed and cruelty of Monsanto, which will soon be the only producer of genetically engineer soy beans eliminating even natural soy beans, and how they have deliberately planted their own seeds into private farms to accuse them of patent infringement and drove the farms out of business. As a vegetarian/vegan you are supporting this."

Only true if you are eating tons of soy. It's not a requirement that a vegetarian or vegan eat soy! That being said, I've watched several documentaries on Monsanto and I know what you say about them is true. I don't eat soy either.

bcattoes

Any *fact based* info on meat vs. vegetarian/vegan would be greatly appreciated.

Check medical based sites like NIH, webmd, harvard school of public health, etc. rather than diet/exercise based sites which usually push their own agenda. Medical sites will tell you that meat is fine as long as you keep it lean and portions small (about the size of a deck of cards).

kbw414

Huh. I never knew that....thanks for the info! My mom will be interested in that...she puts soy in everything....I always heard it was really good for you. My friend is a vegetarian and loads up on the edamame at every single meal.

I agree that soy isn't good for a young woman who still gets regular menstrual cycles. As another poster said, soy can alter the amount of estrogen in the body. However, I've heard that soy can help menopausal women with menopause symptoms such as hot flashes which are caused by a sudden drop in estrogen. But yes, a lot of soy is GMO and should be evaluated with suspicion.

supermom1114

I spent the first part of my life completely gorged on meat at EVERY meal (my parent's lifestyle choice, not mine). I developed fatty liver from it, and I wasn't even overweight. Of course they were eating high fat bacon, dairy products, ham, pork, beef, etc but it goes to show what excessive meat consumption can do to even a child.

As a young adult, I've made the decision to go nearly meatless. I don't eat dairy either because it's high in saturated fat and it's not good for my digestion. I've found much more healthy ways to get my calcium. If it weren't for eating fish, eggs, and organic chicken once in a rare while, I'd be able to call myself vegan. But I found that I just need to not worry about the labels and eat what I think is best for me.

Excessive meat intake is associated with heart disease, the number one killer in the United States. Heart disease has killed more people than all our major wars put together. My family members who still eat meat at every meal have suffered from diabetes, stroke, and heart attack. After I stopped eating most meat, my fatty liver went away, my cholesterol dropped to 133, and my physical stamina and mental acuity is so much better.

Health aside, choosing not to eat meat is better for the environment. It takes 2500 gallons of water to process just 1 lb of beef.

Even though I choose not to eat meat, I think it is still personal choice and could be ok for the right individuals in moderation (once or twice a week, maybe).

For protein, I eat a lot of beans, quinoa, brown rice, nuts, and seeds. Check out this article:

http://www.nomeatathlete.com/vegan-protein-percentages/

It seems to suggest that the total grams of protein is not what matters, but rather, the total percentage of protein in the meal. That being said, I don't really sweat protein. A lot of plant-based foods have small amounts of protein in them so if you're eating a really well-balanced meal with a huge variety of foods (it's key to eat a huge variety), then you can easily get enough protein.

Actually refined carbohydrates have greater impact on fat storage (around organs included) than saturated fat. There is a great article here on many of the misconceptions about saturated fats.

http://www.coconutoil.com/truth_saturated_fats.htm

And to add to this for a little further info and insight. *Deep breath, here it goes* When you raise a cow, or chicken, or pig in the way that most of our meat is raised today (corn/antibiotic/hormone/animal by-product(YES!) mix feed, penned up in CFOs or chicken coops with no light let inside that you can barely walk in, breeding focused on how fast the animal will grow not the true quality of its meat, etc etc) You completely change what meat is. When our ancestors were still hunter/gatherers they would kill things like bison or wild game, animals that were grass-fed and roamed wherever they pleased. This meat was significantly lower in saturated fats, higher in omega-3s and CLAs and overall contained a lower fat to meat ratio than the general grocery store meat of today. So thats what the human body is used to. When you give it something that is much much higher in saturated fats and overall fat it'd going to react negatively. Then you add in the fact that animals get fed hormones and antibiotics to help them grow and not get sick from standing/laying/sleeping in their own manure all day. Combine ALL of that with the fact that what they are eating now is corn, not grass, which makes them pack on tons of fat, and fast and you've got the perfect storm. The mangled disgusting mess you create and slap the label meat on is nothing like what our bodies were made to eat. That being said, we still need meat for the reasons I already listed (although again, not saying you can't live without it, plenty of people do). Just opt for grass-fed pastured beef. Just because it says organic doesn't make it grass-fed BEWARE!!! There are plenty of organic dairy and meat farms/ranches or w/e that run JUST like traditional Big agribusiness companies, only thing is they have to kill more cows because they aren't allowed to give them antibiotics, and their corn is certified organic corn, but corn none the less. Same goes with chickens and pigs. They can all be labeled organic, as long as their feed (read, corn) is organic and they aren't given antibiotics or hormones. Really and truly its best to find a local rancher whos farm I assure they will gladly let you come see, whos cows eat grass and walk around in fields and chickens run around in their own yards, etc. and get your meat from him.

If you want to know more about our food industry and the things they aren't telling the public watch the documentary Food Inc., read Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma, and Jillian Michael's Master your Metabolism. There are quite a few more documentaries and books I could reference but those three cover quite a bit.

ilsie99

"You should do some research on the greed and cruelty of Monsanto, which will soon be the only producer of genetically engineer soy beans eliminating even natural soy beans, and how they have deliberately planted their own seeds into private farms to accuse them of patent infringement and drove the farms out of business. As a vegetarian/vegan you are supporting this."

Only true if you are eating tons of soy. It's not a requirement that a vegetarian or vegan eat soy! That being said, I've watched several documentaries on Monsanto and I know what you say about them is true. I don't eat soy either.

And corn

supermom1114

Please do NOT support the cruelty & greed of the meat industry. If you only knew how these animals lived (if one could even call it that) and were slaughtered, you would think twice about putting their flesh in your mouth . Please do some research and make the right decision.

You should do some research on the greed and cruelty of Monsanto, which will soon be the only producer of genetically engineer soy beans eliminating even natural soy beans, and how they have deliberately planted their own seeds into private farms to accuse them of patent infringement and drove the farms out of business. As a vegetarian/vegan and consumer of soy products you are supporting this.

You can buy organic/free range meats that are not kept in cruel conditions. Look at local farmers markets. The bottom line is humans were designed to eat meat.

Amen!!! Monsanto= EVIL!!!! So sad what they do to farmers who are trying to make a living off of non-GMO soybeans =(

ameschiavone

I am vegan and feel that I get all of the necessary nutrients. Be careful not to eat too many nuts and seeds, as they are vegan but contain a lot of calories and are super yummy snack. I am also very balanced with my eat habits, meaning i dont freak out if i really want non-vegan baked good, I just eat it. But, personally, I need to work on not over eating. I rarely eat treats, but whether I am eating healthy or unhealthy things, I eat a lot. Check out the book Skinny***** or Veganist for more info on becoming vegan.

supermom1114

Any *fact based* info on meat vs. vegetarian/vegan would be greatly appreciated.

Check medical based sites like NIH, webmd, harvard school of public health, etc. rather than diet/exercise based sites which usually push their own agenda. Medical sites will tell you that meat is fine as long as you keep it lean and portions small (about the size of a deck of cards).

Since I have been posting a lot on here, just want to clarify, I've studied Nutrition for 4 years now, had to transfer colleges so I get another two years in a new program with a different focus. Plus I read/watch a lot of nutrition and research based books, documentaries, medical journals, etc. I know you weren't attacking me, lol, just felt the need to not sound like I'm pushing some agenda. Although I think I've been showing sides both for eating and not eating meat.

I personally do eat meat, LOVE the stuff. But I pay the extra price to buy from a local rancher(love him!) but now that hubby's hours have been cut we're actually considering going on WIC, so definitely no more pricey meat for me. It's all about educating yourself, researching, experimenting and finding what works for you and ultimately finding where your balance is in this entire beef industry vs soy/corn (ie Big Agribusiness) vs local vs organic labeling vs whatever other beliefs you may have is. And thats what makes us all different and keeps the world interesting. =D

supermom1114

Huh. I never knew that....thanks for the info! My mom will be interested in that...she puts soy in everything....I always heard it was really good for you. My friend is a vegetarian and loads up on the edamame at every single meal.

I agree that soy isn't good for a young woman who still gets regular menstrual cycles. As another poster said, soy can alter the amount of estrogen in the body. However, I've heard that soy can help menopausal women with menopause symptoms such as hot flashes which are caused by a sudden drop in estrogen. But yes, a lot of soy is GMO and should be evaluated with suspicion.

True! I didn't write this all out earlier but since you bring it up..... soy is bad for pre-menopausal women because it alters the amount of estrogen in your body. If this happens before puberty you see puberty arise a lot quicker, which is why more young girls are coming home from fourth grade freaked out because they haven't had the 5th grade puberty talk yet. After puberty, if you put more of a hormone in your body your body wants to balance it out. So it tells the organs that produce estrogen (your ovaries) to produce less. They get used to not having to produce so much and as the saying goes if you don't use it you lose it. So eventually even if you stop eating as much non-fermented soy your ovaries struggle to pick the slack back up since they got so warm and cozy producing their assigned lower amount. Now how long your soy levels were high and how high they were effect how well you "bounce" back. But if you eat a regular american diet or even a seemingly healthy one you're getting enough to hurt your system (soy is in places you NEVER imagined, so just because you don't eat tofu, edamame, or soymilk don't think you're safe). Anyways, so once you do hit menopause you're ovaries which weren't producing full throttle for years anyways all the sudden quit, and your menopause can be even worse. Also, another likely scenario that happens today is even with your ovaries compensating and performing at a lower level, you still get too much soy and thus too much estrogen which then leads to all sorts of health problems, the list is long.

hope that clarifies a few things. Soy helps in menopause only if you haven't already over-exposed yourself pre-menopause and therefore your ovaries still have a little kick left to them and use the small amounts of estrogen from soy to help boost your own natural levels but thats a lot of biochem to get into for now.


And I'd just like to end this all with saying that a lot of what I stated up there is based off of research studies, but we all know that you can always find two research studies with opposing opinions. SO yes, there may be someone out there who argues back that they've read research that says otherwise. Everyday scientist discover new things about the human body, our food, how it effects us, how what our food ate effects us, etc etc. So by no means am I saying that 110% what I wrote up there is solid written in stone fact. It's just the picture that quite a bit of recent research paints.

kbw414

It seems to suggest that the total grams of protein is not what matters, but rather, the total percentage of protein in the meal. That being said, I don't really sweat protein. A lot of plant-based foods have small amounts of protein in them so if you're eating a really well-balanced meal with a huge variety of foods (it's key to eat a huge variety), then you can easily get enough protein.

Protein and carbohydrate are both 1g/4cal, and fat is 1g/9cal. Doesn't matter the source. So total percentage and total grams are the same thing.

But, if you eat say, 20 g of protein in a 300 calorie meal then you have a higher percentage of protein in that meal than say the same 20g of protein in a 600 calorie meal. What I was trying to say is that the protein percentage compared to the total number of calories in the meal is what counts. Therefore, I was encouraging eating lots of low calorie foods like vegetables with your protein source. Sorry if that was unclear.

DeBlue

I've been a vegetarian for nearly 30 years. Meat digests WAY slower than other foods. Think of it this way, that stuff just hangs around in your body fermenting and holding up the works... nuff said? Lots of different ways to look at this topic. Take the vegetarian challenge for 30 days and just evaluate how you feel at that time. You will know what is best for you!

ilsie99

I've been a vegetarian for nearly 30 years. Meat digests WAY slower than other foods. Think of it this way, that stuff just hangs around in your body fermenting and holding up the works... nuff said? Lots of different ways to look at this topic. Take the vegetarian challenge for 30 days and just evaluate how you feel at that time. You will know what is best for you!

This is a total urban legend. A healthy digestive system will eliminate all food in 18-24 hours.

Barneystinson

Please do NOT support the cruelty & greed of the meat industry. If you only knew how these animals lived (if one could even call it that) and were slaughtered, you would think twice about putting their flesh in your mouth . Please do some research and make the right decision.

I hunt and used to work in a slaughterhouse.

So...yep, know how they live and die. Sometimes by my own two murderous hands.

supermom1114

I've been a vegetarian for nearly 30 years. Meat digests WAY slower than other foods. Think of it this way, that stuff just hangs around in your body fermenting and holding up the works... nuff said? Lots of different ways to look at this topic. Take the vegetarian challenge for 30 days and just evaluate how you feel at that time. You will know what is best for you!

This is a total urban legend. A healthy digestive system will eliminate all food in 18-24 hours.

Yup! Its not meat that digests more slowly, it's protein, any protein source. But still, a healthy system will flush it all out.

Everyone's metabolism is different, many people do find that cutting meat completely out helps them, others find they are dragging and can't function without meat, so like DeBlue said, you will ultimately know whats best for you.

lizzys

soy was frist raised for live stock to help fatten tham up than the depression hit and people started eating it was it ever ment for human consumption. i don't know. but it seem like any think that is design to put weight on fast is not good for you

Elizabeth_C34

Our ancestors didn't crawl to the top of the food chain to eat sprouts... just sayin...

I eat a lot of meat. In fact, since starting my weight loss journey, I eat a lot more meat than I didi before because I buy only whole lean cuts of good organic (hormone free) meats. I usually grill or bake it and it's a great healthy and perfectly natural way to get protein. Plus, who doesn't love a perfect grilled juicy steak?

Combine that with some good fresh veggies, and it's a great wonderful meal.

I think it's much more important to stay away from processed food (high fructose corn syrup, genetically modified foods, things with hormones and pestitcides, etc.)

That being said, it is a personal lifestyle choice. So, if you feel like you want to go vegan or vegetarian for a while, try it. I did and it was not for me at all.

bcattoes

Thanks for replying...I've never heard bad things about soy...TELL ME MORE. I love soymilk, the Silk variety...Is that really bad?

Soy is healthy unless you have an intollerance or allergy to it.

"The American Heart Association says consuming 25 to 50 grams of soy a day can help lower our LDL cholesterol (the "bad" cholesterol) by as much as 8%. Research has also shown promising results for soy in preventing stroke, cancer (notably breast cancer), osteoporosis, and hot flashes." http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/the-joy-of-soy

http://nccam.nih.gov/health/soy/ataglance.htm
http://www.webmd.com/breast-cancer/news/20091208/soy-appears-safe-for-breast-cancer-survivors
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/protein-full-story/#soy

bcattoes

soy was frist raised for live stock to help fatten tham up than the depression hit and people started eating it was it ever ment for human consumption. i don't know. but it seem like any think that is design to put weight on fast is not good for you

Um, you are talking about Americans I guess. Asian cultures have eaten soy for hundreds of years and are generally a lot healthier and thinner than we Americans are.

sarah_ep

I have noticed that no one on here has talked about the economical and green reasons to lessen meat intake. Here is a great TED talk about it

http://www.ted.com/talks/graham_hill_weekday_vegetarian.html

supermom1114

Thanks for replying...I've never heard bad things about soy...TELL ME MORE. I love soymilk, the Silk variety...Is that really bad?

Soy is healthy unless you have an intollerance or allergy to it.

"The American Heart Association says consuming 25 to 50 grams of soy a day can help lower our LDL cholesterol (the "bad" cholesterol) by as much as 8%. Research has also shown promising results for soy in preventing stroke, cancer (notably breast cancer), osteoporosis, and hot flashes." http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/the-joy-of-soy

http://nccam.nih.gov/health/soy/ataglance.htm
http://www.webmd.com/breast-cancer/news/20091208/soy-appears-safe-for-breast-cancer-survivors
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/protein-full-story/#soy

I'm glad you had references, but I think you should re-read them. No where does it say soy is 100% safe. Most of it is said that research shows, or preliminary findings, or more research is needer, or long term effects are unknown. So I'm just saying don't state that soy is healthy and safe as if it is fact when the references you gave all state somewhere that these are all still research findings, not proven, and long term effects are unknown. The harvard reference even clearly states that one of the main reasons soy is good for cardiovascular health is only because it replaces red meat or other unhealthy choices. But it doesn't reference that if you replaced your corn-fed red meat with grass-fed you'd be just as healthy, if not healthier.

Again, it's all personal choice and deciding where you lie on the topic and what research you believe and will base your health on(remember research for trans fats at first touted them for being this great replacement for saturated fats and now we know they're far worse). Just wanted to kind of add this disclaimer to your statement.

Also, about the asian argument you said, a lot of soy in traditional asian diets was fermented (soy sauce, miso) but I agree they do eat a higher percentage of tofu and straight edamame than Americans. It would be an interesting study to compare minimally processed soy like edamame and tofu with the highly processed food additives, flavorings, and stabilizers that are manipulated out of soy and high in the American diet. Very interesting point!

bcattoes

Thanks for replying...I've never heard bad things about soy...TELL ME MORE. I love soymilk, the Silk variety...Is that really bad?

Soy is healthy unless you have an intollerance or allergy to it.

"The American Heart Association says consuming 25 to 50 grams of soy a day can help lower our LDL cholesterol (the "bad" cholesterol) by as much as 8%. Research has also shown promising results for soy in preventing stroke, cancer (notably breast cancer), osteoporosis, and hot flashes." http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/the-joy-of-soy

http://nccam.nih.gov/health/soy/ataglance.htm
http://www.webmd.com/breast-cancer/news/20091208/soy-appears-safe-for-breast-cancer-survivors
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/protein-full-story/#soy

I'm glad you had references, but I think you should re-read them. No where does it say soy is 100% safe. Most of it is said that research shows, or preliminary findings, or more research is needer, or long term effects are unknown. So I'm just saying don't state that soy is healthy and safe as if it is fact when the references you gave all state somewhere that these are all still research findings, not proven, and long term effects are unknown. The harvard reference even clearly states that one of the main reasons soy is good for cardiovascular health is only because it replaces red meat or other unhealthy choices. But it doesn't reference that if you replaced your corn-fed red meat with grass-fed you'd be just as healthy, if not healthier.

Again, it's all personal choice and deciding where you lie on the topic and what research you believe and will base your health on(remember research for trans fats at first touted them for being this great replacement for saturated fats and now we know they're far worse). Just wanted to kind of add this disclaimer to your statement.

Also, about the asian argument you said, a lot of soy in traditional asian diets was fermented (soy sauce, miso) but I agree they do eat a higher percentage of tofu and straight edamame than Americans. It would be an interesting study to compare minimally processed soy like edamame and tofu with the highly processed food additives, flavorings, and stabilizers that are manipulated out of soy and high in the American diet. Very interesting point!

NOTHING is 100% safe. But for most people soy is safe. Ever since I read the study saying that soy could (not would, "could") reduce menopause symtoms I (nearing that age) have made a concentrated effort to eat more. So far, so good, so I'm not changing a thing. I'm healthy and though I am in perimenopause I have yet to have any symptoms.

ilsie99

soy was frist raised for live stock to help fatten tham up than the depression hit and people started eating it was it ever ment for human consumption. i don't know. but it seem like any think that is design to put weight on fast is not good for you

Um, you are talking about Americans I guess. Asian cultures have eaten soy for hundreds of years and are generally a lot healthier and thinner than we Americans are.

Asian cultures eat Fermented soy, not unfermented soy. I know, cuz I'm in one of them. As multiple people have stated in this thread, fermented soy is a totally different story.

bcattoes

soy was frist raised for live stock to help fatten tham up than the depression hit and people started eating it was it ever ment for human consumption. i don't know. but it seem like any think that is design to put weight on fast is not good for you

Um, you are talking about Americans I guess. Asian cultures have eaten soy for hundreds of years and are generally a lot healthier and thinner than we Americans are.

Asian cultures eat Fermented soy, not unfermented soy. I know, cuz I'm in one of them. As multiple people have stated in this thread, fermented soy is a totally different story.

So, um, edamame. That's not an Asian food then?

ilsie99

Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble, but Japanese people dont eat edamame and dragon rolls every day. In fact, good luck going into a restaurant in Japan and finding edamame on the menu.

bcattoes

Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble, but Japanese people dont eat edamame and dragon rolls every day. In fact, good luck going into a restaurant in Japan and finding edamame on the menu.

Every Japanese restaurant in my town (all 3 of them) serve edamame but what is served in Amercan Japanese restaurants is very off point, as is whether ot not something is eaten everyday. Tofu is soy, miso is soy, edamame is soy, dried soy beans are soy, soy butter is soy, soy milk is soy, and they are all healthy foods for those without a soy allergy/intollerance.

supermom1114

Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble, but Japanese people dont eat edamame and dragon rolls every day. In fact, good luck going into a restaurant in Japan and finding edamame on the menu.

Every Japanese restaurant in my town (all 3 of them) serve edamame but what is served in Amercan Japanese restaurants is very off point, as is whether ot not something is eaten everyday. Tofu is soy, miso is soy, edamame is soy, dried soy beans are soy, soy butter is soy, soy milk is soy, and they are all healthy foods for those without a soy allergy/intollerance.

I think it's great you've made you're own decision on this and have been seeing wonderful results. But since we all don't know each other's medical conditions or the conditions of others who are reading this since it is a public forum I just really find it unsafe to continue to push that soy is healthy for anyone without an allergy or intolerance. I personally have only brought up the estrogen-like activity it has in our body but you also have to consider the thousands of gallons of pesticide and herbicide dumped on soy crops throughout the US everyday. That gets into every product you mentioned. I'm just trying to again, reiterate that it is a personal choice. Do your own research based off of your own medical conditions and needs and decide whether you want to eat soy or not.

And again, the true problem with soy may come from its over processing here in the US. Or it may be that Asian cultures eat a healthy balance of fermented(soy sauce, miso) and unfermented soy and therefore tolerate things better. And if you really want to get into things, every ethnicity has their own metabolic traits depending on where their ancestors came from, what they ate, the conditions they endured, etc etc. Everyone's metabolic make up is different and thats why it's so important for people to try things for themselves and see how effects them. Plus people say soy is so much better than red meat, but fail to make the same conclusion that grass fed beef is not the same as corn-fed. So you don't have to drop meat, you could also switch to grass-fed pastured products. Just saying, theres more variables and options to consider out there.

I think this thread has shown sides for and against soy quite well but theres not point trying to convince someone who has clearly made their decision and is sticking with it. If you're on the fence about soy, do some research and decide for yourself.

963Nitro

I'm sorry I just can't resist.... but this video explains EVERYTHING you need to know about meet and trying to go vegetarian.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM6xVQwIOYQ

bcattoes

Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble, but Japanese people dont eat edamame and dragon rolls every day. In fact, good luck going into a restaurant in Japan and finding edamame on the menu.

Every Japanese restaurant in my town (all 3 of them) serve edamame but what is served in Amercan Japanese restaurants is very off point, as is whether ot not something is eaten everyday. Tofu is soy, miso is soy, edamame is soy, dried soy beans are soy, soy butter is soy, soy milk is soy, and they are all healthy foods for those without a soy allergy/intollerance.

I think it's great you've made you're own decision on this and have been seeing wonderful results. But since we all don't know each other's medical conditions or the conditions of others who are reading this since it is a public forum I just really find it unsafe to continue to push that soy is healthy for anyone without an allergy or intolerance. I personally have only brought up the estrogen-like activity it has in our body but you also have to consider the thousands of gallons of pesticide and herbicide dumped on soy crops throughout the US everyday. That gets into every product you mentioned. I'm just trying to again, reiterate that it is a personal choice. Do your own research based off of your own medical conditions and needs and decide whether you want to eat soy or not.

And again, the true problem with soy may come from its over processing here in the US. Or it may be that Asian cultures eat a healthy balance of fermented(soy sauce, miso) and unfermented soy and therefore tolerate things better. And if you really want to get into things, every ethnicity has their own metabolic traits depending on where their ancestors came from, what they ate, the conditions they endured, etc etc. Everyone's metabolic make up is different and thats why it's so important for people to try things for themselves and see how effects them. Plus people say soy is so much better than red meat, but fail to make the same conclusion that grass fed beef is not the same as corn-fed. So you don't have to drop meat, you could also switch to grass-fed pastured products. Just saying, theres more variables and options to consider out there.

I think this thread has shown sides for and against soy quite well but theres not point trying to convince someone who has clearly made their decision and is sticking with it. If you're on the fence about soy, do some research and decide for yourself.

The argument of pesticides has nothing to with soy, since you can buy organic soy products just the same as you can buy other organic food products. And I'm not "pushing" soy, I'm simply stating that it is a healthy food. There are people with intollerances to any food you can name, but we don't say "carrots are unhealthy" just because some people can't eat them. Someone posted that soy is unhealthy, while that may be true for that poster, it is NOT true as a general statement. Soy is a healhty food.