Meat

ilsie99

Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble, but Japanese people dont eat edamame and dragon rolls every day. In fact, good luck going into a restaurant in Japan and finding edamame on the menu.

Every Japanese restaurant in my town (all 3 of them) serve edamame but what is served in Amercan Japanese restaurants is very off point, as is whether ot not something is eaten everyday. Tofu is soy, miso is soy, edamame is soy, dried soy beans are soy, soy butter is soy, soy milk is soy, and they are all healthy foods for those without a soy allergy/intollerance.

Yes, and every Japanese restaurant in my town (all 40 of them) serve tempura ice cream, so by the same reasoning, all Japanese people eat a lot of it and it's healthy for people without dairy intolerance. QED

bcattoes

Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble, but Japanese people dont eat edamame and dragon rolls every day. In fact, good luck going into a restaurant in Japan and finding edamame on the menu.

Every Japanese restaurant in my town (all 3 of them) serve edamame but what is served in Amercan Japanese restaurants is very off point, as is whether ot not something is eaten everyday. Tofu is soy, miso is soy, edamame is soy, dried soy beans are soy, soy butter is soy, soy milk is soy, and they are all healthy foods for those without a soy allergy/intollerance.

Yes, and every Japanese restaurant in my town (all 40 of them) serve tempura ice cream, so by the same reasoning, all Japanese people eat a lot of it and it's healthy for people without dairy intolerance. QED

What are you talking about??? I don't think anyone in this thread ever said that Japanese people eat anything "all the time". But are you seriously arguing that soy hasn't been a staple in the Asian diet for years? I mean, even if it hadn't been it serve as little proof that soy is unhealthy. So, what exactly is your point?

ilsie99

I'm arguing that FERMENTED soy is a staple in Asian culture. And I'm Asian, and I lived in Korea and Japan for about a fourth of my life, so I think I'm fairly qualified to say that.

Emma1903

In my opinion there are pros and cons of being either meat eater,vegan or vegetarian, it comes down to personal choice, if it's just to loose weight then becoming Vegetarian won't help. If you can't get a balanced diet with how long you have been eating meat for thenmit will be even more difficult to do it as a vegetarian

bcattoes

I'm arguing that FERMENTED soy is a staple in Asian culture. And I'm Asian, and I lived in Korea and Japan for about a fourth of my life, so I think I'm fairly qualified to say that.

Cool, we're in agreement then. Soy is a healthy food. Otherwise I'm assuming you would not have eaten it. I was confused because it seemed as if you were arguing against my point, but I see now that we are on the same page.

Elizabeth_C34

Bacon is my cocaine.

ilsie99

Let me see if I can clarify:

When I lived in Korea, I had soy sauce (fermented soy) every day. I had doenjang (fermented soy) every day. I had tofu (UNfermented soy) MAYBE twice a month. I had edamame never, in fact, I didn't even know people ate stuff like that till I went to a sushi restaurant in the US. Soy milk? Heck no.

When I lived in Japan, I had soy sauce every day. I had miso (fermented soy) with almost every meal. I had natto (fermented soy) much more often than tofu, and again, never had edamame.

Do you see what I'm getting at here? Lots of fermented soy, little unfermented soy.

bcattoes

Bacon is my cocaine.

Mmmm, bacon. I haven't had it in my house for over 20 years because I just can't be trusted.

ilsie99

I'm arguing that FERMENTED soy is a staple in Asian culture. And I'm Asian, and I lived in Korea and Japan for about a fourth of my life, so I think I'm fairly qualified to say that.

Cool, we're in agreement then. Soy is a healthy food. Otherwise I'm assuming you would not have eaten it. I was confused because it seemed as if you were arguing against my point, but I see now that we are on the same page.

hahah, clearly not, but whatever.

Elizabeth_C34

Bacon is my cocaine.

Mmmm, bacon. I haven't had it in my house for over 20 years because I just can't be trusted.

I incorporated it into the household diet in moderation (2 slices periodically for breakfast, 2 slices on a sandwich for lunch, etc.). Keeps me from binging on a whole plate of bacon

freerange

Any *fact based* info on meat vs. vegetarian/vegan would be greatly appreciated.

Fact, there is no society of all vegetarians in the history of mankind. Take a person that refuses to eat any meat, and a real human that eats a omnivore based diet (like we were designed to) and drop them both off in the wilderness, see who comes out alive.

End6ame

Any *fact based* info on meat vs. vegetarian/vegan would be greatly appreciated.

Fact, there is no society of all vegetarians in the history of mankind. Take a person that refuses to eat any meat, and a real human that eats a omnivore based diet (like we were designed to) and drop them both off in the wilderness, see who comes out alive.

Vegetarian is ancient tribal slang for the ***Moderator edited***.

Sorry, I couldn’t resist.

stormieweather

Eat organic plants and humanely raised meat/dairy without antibiotics or added hormones and you are supporting the natural farmer and doing your body a favor. It is more expensive, but worth it to me.

I think I'm keeping Applegate products in business, singlehandedly.

freerange

I hunt and used to work in a slaughterhouse.

So...yep, know how they live and die. Sometimes by my own two murderous hands.

I knew I liked you.

bcattoes

Any *fact based* info on meat vs. vegetarian/vegan would be greatly appreciated.

Fact, there is no society of all vegetarians in the history of mankind. Take a person that refuses to eat any meat, and a real human that eats a omnivore based diet (like we were designed to) and drop them both off in the wilderness, see who comes out alive.

That would depend entirely on the individuals. Eating meat doesn't give you magical wilderness survivor skills. I'm guess whichever of them had seen the most episodes of Survivorman would come out alive first.

freerange

I have noticed that no one on here has talked about the economical and green reasons to lessen meat intake. Here is a great TED talk about it

http://www.ted.com/talks/graham_hill_weekday_vegetarian.html

Propaganda, do you have ANY IDEA how much oil is needed to grow one head of cabbage?

girlinahat

I strongly recommend reading Michael Pollan's Omnivore's dilemma for what I felt was a balanced discussion of the issues.

What I found most intriguing was his descriptions of the farm (Polyface). Both the crops and the animals depend on each other for production efficiency.

The reasons us humans are doing a fairly good job at taking over the world (mwahaahaa) is because we are omnivores and able to adapt. Like rats.

Meat is not unhealthy, except by the bucketload. Vegetarian diets are not unhealthy, except when too restrictive. Fruitarian diets?.....

The more people choose reasonably farmed and organic style (not necessarily certified organic), the better the farming processes there will be. I don't want to see a world entirely growing grains and vegetables personally. I like being chased by a herd of bullocks.


(oh, and fermented stuff is better for you. Especially fermented soy products...... except natto. That is truly disgusting)

girlinahat

I'm guessing the one with the best mobile phone signal.........

freerange

Any *fact based* info on meat vs. vegetarian/vegan would be greatly appreciated.

Fact, there is no society of all vegetarians in the history of mankind. Take a person that refuses to eat any meat, and a real human that eats a omnivore based diet (like we were designed to) and drop them both off in the wilderness, see who comes out alive.

That would depend entirely on the individuals. Eating meat doesn't give you magical wilderness survivor skills. I'm guess whichever of them had seen the most episodes of Survivorman would come out alive first.

No surprise the point went over your head. The point being a vegan CANNOT get a balanced diet locally from plants alone, they will die from malnutrition in time. It is only recently that vegans have even been possible because it takes so much work, and combined foods to achieve a healthy lifestyle.

bcattoes

Any *fact based* info on meat vs. vegetarian/vegan would be greatly appreciated.

Fact, there is no society of all vegetarians in the history of mankind. Take a person that refuses to eat any meat, and a real human that eats a omnivore based diet (like we were designed to) and drop them both off in the wilderness, see who comes out alive.

That would depend entirely on the individuals. Eating meat doesn't give you magical wilderness survivor skills. I'm guess whichever of them had seen the most episodes of Survivorman would come out alive first.

No surprise the point went over your head. The point being a vegan CANNOT get a balanced diet locally from plants alone, they will die from malnutrition in time. It is only recently that vegans have even been possible because it takes so much work, and combined foods to achieve a healthy lifestyle.

LOL you really have no sense of humor at all, do you?

bcattoes

I have noticed that no one on here has talked about the economical and green reasons to lessen meat intake. Here is a great TED talk about it

http://www.ted.com/talks/graham_hill_weekday_vegetarian.html

Propaganda, do you have ANY IDEA how much oil is needed to grow one head of cabbage?

No, how much? I don't put oil on my cabbages, but you have peaked my curiosity.

ilsie99

(oh, and fermented stuff is better for you. Especially fermented soy products...... except natto. That is truly disgusting)

Natto is awesome! (As long as you don't think of salty boogers while eating it. Ok, maybe it's an acquired taste.)

girlinahat

(oh, and fermented stuff is better for you. Especially fermented soy products...... except natto. That is truly disgusting)

Natto is awesome! (As long as you don't think of salty boogers while eating it. Ok, maybe it's an acquired taste.)

no. Natto is something actively decomposing in your mouth, it is like watching CSI when they speed up the maggots eating the fleash and yet all of that is happening in your tastebuds. and NOTHING you eat or drink to get rid of the taste will deal with it. In fact, even THINKING about the taste drums up memories of the taste and I feel the need to lie down. or something.

supermom1114

I have noticed that no one on here has talked about the economical and green reasons to lessen meat intake. Here is a great TED talk about it

http://www.ted.com/talks/graham_hill_weekday_vegetarian.html

Propaganda, do you have ANY IDEA how much oil is needed to grow one head of cabbage?

No, how much? I don't put oil on my cabbages, but you have peaked my curiosity.

I hope you're just joking, you seemed fairly literate on our food industry and big agribusiness. The question was how much oil is needed to grow one head of cabbage, as in when you add up the gas for tractors, manufacturing of pesticides, processing/cleaning plants, gas for trucks to deliver the cabbage to other distributors and the long journey it takes from probably California to say Maine for someone to pick it up in their grocery store. No one said anything about putting oil directly on to cabbages to make them grow.

And if you're going to bring up that you grow your own cabbages, thats awesome, but you (and I) are the minority in today's world. And even organic cabbage found in a grocery store still takes tons of oil to grow and bring to market, they run organic farms just like regular farms but without the herbicide/pesticide, so all the big agribusiness evils are the same. As someone stated earlier if you read Michael Pollans "An Omnivore's Dillemma" it gives a very balanced yet eye opening perspective into our country's big agribusiness food industry vs local "small" farmers.

freerange

LOL you really have no sense of humor at all, do you?

It depends on whom it is I'm talking with. Your history would suggest no humor was ment. And it is hard to tell in written words here, the reason most people put LOL or when they are trying to be funny.

freerange

No, how much? I don't put oil on my cabbages, but you have peaked my curiosity.

Now this one I got.

supermom1114

Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble, but Japanese people dont eat edamame and dragon rolls every day. In fact, good luck going into a restaurant in Japan and finding edamame on the menu.

Every Japanese restaurant in my town (all 3 of them) serve edamame but what is served in Amercan Japanese restaurants is very off point, as is whether ot not something is eaten everyday. Tofu is soy, miso is soy, edamame is soy, dried soy beans are soy, soy butter is soy, soy milk is soy, and they are all healthy foods for those without a soy allergy/intollerance.

I think it's great you've made you're own decision on this and have been seeing wonderful results. But since we all don't know each other's medical conditions or the conditions of others who are reading this since it is a public forum I just really find it unsafe to continue to push that soy is healthy for anyone without an allergy or intolerance. I personally have only brought up the estrogen-like activity it has in our body but you also have to consider the thousands of gallons of pesticide and herbicide dumped on soy crops throughout the US everyday. That gets into every product you mentioned. I'm just trying to again, reiterate that it is a personal choice. Do your own research based off of your own medical conditions and needs and decide whether you want to eat soy or not.

And again, the true problem with soy may come from its over processing here in the US. Or it may be that Asian cultures eat a healthy balance of fermented(soy sauce, miso) and unfermented soy and therefore tolerate things better. And if you really want to get into things, every ethnicity has their own metabolic traits depending on where their ancestors came from, what they ate, the conditions they endured, etc etc. Everyone's metabolic make up is different and thats why it's so important for people to try things for themselves and see how effects them. Plus people say soy is so much better than red meat, but fail to make the same conclusion that grass fed beef is not the same as corn-fed. So you don't have to drop meat, you could also switch to grass-fed pastured products. Just saying, theres more variables and options to consider out there.

I think this thread has shown sides for and against soy quite well but theres not point trying to convince someone who has clearly made their decision and is sticking with it. If you're on the fence about soy, do some research and decide for yourself.

The argument of pesticides has nothing to with soy, since you can buy organic soy products just the same as you can buy other organic food products. And I'm not "pushing" soy, I'm simply stating that it is a healthy food. There are people with intollerances to any food you can name, but we don't say "carrots are unhealthy" just because some people can't eat them. Someone posted that soy is unhealthy, while that may be true for that poster, it is NOT true as a general statement. Soy is a healhty food.

The argument of pesticides has everything to do with soy since soy is the main crop the mega-monster Monsanto has focused it's evil on. Plus just because organic products are available doesn't mean that people can afford them, or that they are available to them. Trust me there are plenty of slums, ghettos, and overall low socio-economic status areas across the country that have little more than fast food restaurants and gas stations maybe a drug store as their main food sources. And I doubt "stop-n-go" is going to be carrying organic soy milk. Most americans don't eat straight soy, they get soy by way of additives in their food, the lovely chemical laundry list which no average Joe can read. I'm just stating that fermented soy does not have the estrogen-like effects that unfermented does and therefore is safer. Until there are decades of research done on how unfermented soy's estrogen-like effects really influence our bodies, I'm not trusting it and wouldn't say it's healthy. And using your own logic, just because soy is working great for you and healthy for you doesn't mean that's true as a general statement. Fermented soy is a healthy food (when low-sodium), Unfermented soy is still up for debate. Not saying it's evil, just saying I don't want anything in my body, messing with my hormones until there are decades of research saying it's ok.

sarah_ep

I have noticed that no one on here has talked about the economical and green reasons to lessen meat intake. Here is a great TED talk about it

http://www.ted.com/talks/graham_hill_weekday_vegetarian.html

Propaganda, do you have ANY IDEA how much oil is needed to grow one head of cabbage?

I would be more careful about throwing the word "propaganda" around. Do you know what TED is?

freerange

I have noticed that no one on here has talked about the economical and green reasons to lessen meat intake. Here is a great TED talk about it

http://www.ted.com/talks/graham_hill_weekday_vegetarian.html

Propaganda, do you have ANY IDEA how much oil is needed to grow one head of cabbage?

I would be more careful about throwing the word "propaganda" around. Do you know what TED is?

Didn’t know before you brought it up, but I do now, Technology, Entertainment, and Design. Really it doesn’t matter. Anytime someone goes on about “how green eating less meat is” it’s pure propaganda. And it doesn’t matter if you are a unwilling,,,,, be nice,,,,, participant in their propaganda or if you know better and are spreading the BS on purpose. It amounts to the same thing. Eating vegetarian is no more “green” than eating meat, period end of story. It is propaganda put out by militant vegans to justify their moral code and to impose it on the rest of us.

Having said that, if it makes “YOU” feel better more power to you, just (and I’m not saying you have) don’t try to pee down my neck and tell me it’s raining.

sarah_ep

I have noticed that no one on here has talked about the economical and green reasons to lessen meat intake. Here is a great TED talk about it

http://www.ted.com/talks/graham_hill_weekday_vegetarian.html

Propaganda, do you have ANY IDEA how much oil is needed to grow one head of cabbage?

I would be more careful about throwing the word "propaganda" around. Do you know what TED is?

Didn’t know before you brought it up, but I do now, Technology, Entertainment, and Design. Really it doesn’t matter. Anytime someone goes on about “how green eating less meat is” it’s pure propaganda. And it doesn’t matter if you are a unwilling,,,,, be nice,,,,, participant in their propaganda or if you know better and are spreading the BS on purpose. It amounts to the same thing. Eating vegetarian is no more “green” than eating meat, period end of story. It is propaganda put out by militant vegans to justify their moral code and to impose it on the rest of us.

Having said that, if it makes “YOU” feel better more power to you, just (and I’m not saying you have) don’t try to pee down my neck and tell me it’s raining.
[/quote

It is not just Technology, Entertainment, and Design it is intelligent people spreading new ideas to live better. It is home to many profound talks given by Nobel prize holders ect.

I would have loved to have an actual discussion with you about this, but considering my original post was not directed towards you and you show no effort to be open minded I do not wish continue.