Meat

bcattoes

I have noticed that no one on here has talked about the economical and green reasons to lessen meat intake. Here is a great TED talk about it

http://www.ted.com/talks/graham_hill_weekday_vegetarian.html

Propaganda, do you have ANY IDEA how much oil is needed to grow one head of cabbage?

No, how much? I don't put oil on my cabbages, but you have peaked my curiosity.

ilsie99

(oh, and fermented stuff is better for you. Especially fermented soy products...... except natto. That is truly disgusting)

Natto is awesome! (As long as you don't think of salty boogers while eating it. Ok, maybe it's an acquired taste.)

girlinahat

(oh, and fermented stuff is better for you. Especially fermented soy products...... except natto. That is truly disgusting)

Natto is awesome! (As long as you don't think of salty boogers while eating it. Ok, maybe it's an acquired taste.)

no. Natto is something actively decomposing in your mouth, it is like watching CSI when they speed up the maggots eating the fleash and yet all of that is happening in your tastebuds. and NOTHING you eat or drink to get rid of the taste will deal with it. In fact, even THINKING about the taste drums up memories of the taste and I feel the need to lie down. or something.

supermom1114

I have noticed that no one on here has talked about the economical and green reasons to lessen meat intake. Here is a great TED talk about it

http://www.ted.com/talks/graham_hill_weekday_vegetarian.html

Propaganda, do you have ANY IDEA how much oil is needed to grow one head of cabbage?

No, how much? I don't put oil on my cabbages, but you have peaked my curiosity.

I hope you're just joking, you seemed fairly literate on our food industry and big agribusiness. The question was how much oil is needed to grow one head of cabbage, as in when you add up the gas for tractors, manufacturing of pesticides, processing/cleaning plants, gas for trucks to deliver the cabbage to other distributors and the long journey it takes from probably California to say Maine for someone to pick it up in their grocery store. No one said anything about putting oil directly on to cabbages to make them grow.

And if you're going to bring up that you grow your own cabbages, thats awesome, but you (and I) are the minority in today's world. And even organic cabbage found in a grocery store still takes tons of oil to grow and bring to market, they run organic farms just like regular farms but without the herbicide/pesticide, so all the big agribusiness evils are the same. As someone stated earlier if you read Michael Pollans "An Omnivore's Dillemma" it gives a very balanced yet eye opening perspective into our country's big agribusiness food industry vs local "small" farmers.

freerange

LOL you really have no sense of humor at all, do you?

It depends on whom it is I'm talking with. Your history would suggest no humor was ment. And it is hard to tell in written words here, the reason most people put LOL or when they are trying to be funny.

freerange

No, how much? I don't put oil on my cabbages, but you have peaked my curiosity.

Now this one I got.

supermom1114

Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble, but Japanese people dont eat edamame and dragon rolls every day. In fact, good luck going into a restaurant in Japan and finding edamame on the menu.

Every Japanese restaurant in my town (all 3 of them) serve edamame but what is served in Amercan Japanese restaurants is very off point, as is whether ot not something is eaten everyday. Tofu is soy, miso is soy, edamame is soy, dried soy beans are soy, soy butter is soy, soy milk is soy, and they are all healthy foods for those without a soy allergy/intollerance.

I think it's great you've made you're own decision on this and have been seeing wonderful results. But since we all don't know each other's medical conditions or the conditions of others who are reading this since it is a public forum I just really find it unsafe to continue to push that soy is healthy for anyone without an allergy or intolerance. I personally have only brought up the estrogen-like activity it has in our body but you also have to consider the thousands of gallons of pesticide and herbicide dumped on soy crops throughout the US everyday. That gets into every product you mentioned. I'm just trying to again, reiterate that it is a personal choice. Do your own research based off of your own medical conditions and needs and decide whether you want to eat soy or not.

And again, the true problem with soy may come from its over processing here in the US. Or it may be that Asian cultures eat a healthy balance of fermented(soy sauce, miso) and unfermented soy and therefore tolerate things better. And if you really want to get into things, every ethnicity has their own metabolic traits depending on where their ancestors came from, what they ate, the conditions they endured, etc etc. Everyone's metabolic make up is different and thats why it's so important for people to try things for themselves and see how effects them. Plus people say soy is so much better than red meat, but fail to make the same conclusion that grass fed beef is not the same as corn-fed. So you don't have to drop meat, you could also switch to grass-fed pastured products. Just saying, theres more variables and options to consider out there.

I think this thread has shown sides for and against soy quite well but theres not point trying to convince someone who has clearly made their decision and is sticking with it. If you're on the fence about soy, do some research and decide for yourself.

The argument of pesticides has nothing to with soy, since you can buy organic soy products just the same as you can buy other organic food products. And I'm not "pushing" soy, I'm simply stating that it is a healthy food. There are people with intollerances to any food you can name, but we don't say "carrots are unhealthy" just because some people can't eat them. Someone posted that soy is unhealthy, while that may be true for that poster, it is NOT true as a general statement. Soy is a healhty food.

The argument of pesticides has everything to do with soy since soy is the main crop the mega-monster Monsanto has focused it's evil on. Plus just because organic products are available doesn't mean that people can afford them, or that they are available to them. Trust me there are plenty of slums, ghettos, and overall low socio-economic status areas across the country that have little more than fast food restaurants and gas stations maybe a drug store as their main food sources. And I doubt "stop-n-go" is going to be carrying organic soy milk. Most americans don't eat straight soy, they get soy by way of additives in their food, the lovely chemical laundry list which no average Joe can read. I'm just stating that fermented soy does not have the estrogen-like effects that unfermented does and therefore is safer. Until there are decades of research done on how unfermented soy's estrogen-like effects really influence our bodies, I'm not trusting it and wouldn't say it's healthy. And using your own logic, just because soy is working great for you and healthy for you doesn't mean that's true as a general statement. Fermented soy is a healthy food (when low-sodium), Unfermented soy is still up for debate. Not saying it's evil, just saying I don't want anything in my body, messing with my hormones until there are decades of research saying it's ok.

sarah_ep

I have noticed that no one on here has talked about the economical and green reasons to lessen meat intake. Here is a great TED talk about it

http://www.ted.com/talks/graham_hill_weekday_vegetarian.html

Propaganda, do you have ANY IDEA how much oil is needed to grow one head of cabbage?

I would be more careful about throwing the word "propaganda" around. Do you know what TED is?

freerange

I have noticed that no one on here has talked about the economical and green reasons to lessen meat intake. Here is a great TED talk about it

http://www.ted.com/talks/graham_hill_weekday_vegetarian.html

Propaganda, do you have ANY IDEA how much oil is needed to grow one head of cabbage?

I would be more careful about throwing the word "propaganda" around. Do you know what TED is?

Didn’t know before you brought it up, but I do now, Technology, Entertainment, and Design. Really it doesn’t matter. Anytime someone goes on about “how green eating less meat is” it’s pure propaganda. And it doesn’t matter if you are a unwilling,,,,, be nice,,,,, participant in their propaganda or if you know better and are spreading the BS on purpose. It amounts to the same thing. Eating vegetarian is no more “green” than eating meat, period end of story. It is propaganda put out by militant vegans to justify their moral code and to impose it on the rest of us.

Having said that, if it makes “YOU” feel better more power to you, just (and I’m not saying you have) don’t try to pee down my neck and tell me it’s raining.

sarah_ep

I have noticed that no one on here has talked about the economical and green reasons to lessen meat intake. Here is a great TED talk about it

http://www.ted.com/talks/graham_hill_weekday_vegetarian.html

Propaganda, do you have ANY IDEA how much oil is needed to grow one head of cabbage?

I would be more careful about throwing the word "propaganda" around. Do you know what TED is?

Didn’t know before you brought it up, but I do now, Technology, Entertainment, and Design. Really it doesn’t matter. Anytime someone goes on about “how green eating less meat is” it’s pure propaganda. And it doesn’t matter if you are a unwilling,,,,, be nice,,,,, participant in their propaganda or if you know better and are spreading the BS on purpose. It amounts to the same thing. Eating vegetarian is no more “green” than eating meat, period end of story. It is propaganda put out by militant vegans to justify their moral code and to impose it on the rest of us.

Having said that, if it makes “YOU” feel better more power to you, just (and I’m not saying you have) don’t try to pee down my neck and tell me it’s raining.
[/quote

It is not just Technology, Entertainment, and Design it is intelligent people spreading new ideas to live better. It is home to many profound talks given by Nobel prize holders ect.

I would have loved to have an actual discussion with you about this, but considering my original post was not directed towards you and you show no effort to be open minded I do not wish continue.

Barneystinson

There will be transportation costs associated with most all food products unless you are living sustainably from your own farmed food sources. Which, if you're able to do that in this day and age, serious props to you.

There are costs from pasture to market in raising a crop...

Transportation of seed
Planting
Fertilization of crops
Pesticide treatments
Irrigation
Harvesting
Sorting
Cooling, refrigeration, and storage (not all crops - sileage and grains are milled and stored)
Transportation of final crop
Rotation and reclaim of crop fields
Fertilization

Restart...

Costs and resources are, of course, dependent on the size and scale of that crop operation.

With raising livestock - cattle for example - for a food source:

Fertilization and reproduction of the herd
Introduction of new herd members (by birth or by transport - auction)
Grazing vs. Feeding (cattle typically lead a pastured grass fed diet - prior to being sold on the market they're fattened with a grain fed diet. Some are 100% grass fed, depends. The grain feeding is a resource drain compared to the grass feeding as you're relying on the transport and growth of a separate crop to feed.)
Protecting the livelihood of the herd through veterinary costs, shelter as needed
Transportation of cattle to auction or slaughter
Slaughter / separation of usuable food from byproduct
Packaging
Cooling and refrigeration
Transportation (depending if this is going to another location for end sale)
Optional - re-packaging (in the case of a grocer who is shipped meats in larger economy packaging then breaks down into individual)


The sustainability and cost of what you're eating is dependent on the number of steps and resources involved in each to get the food from the field to your mouth. There are also considerable costs in post-processing non-meat food sources. There are also considerations of sustainable land usage and crop rotation which are a rising concern in certain areas of the world. There are also concerns with hybridazation of crops, etc. etc. I could go on for a while...

So, as cruel as it may seem to some, putting a gun to Bambi's head (assuming you have a hunting permit) is far less draining of our resources than buying a pack of beef from the supermarket.

Whenever possible, I source meat locally. Meaning, I get it direct from the farm that raised and slaughtered the meat. My current source of beef is my second cousin's farm. I know the source, know what went into raising it, and know where it was slaughtered and packed. All steps of this are within 15 miles of one another. The larger cost in me obtaining this meat is the 350 mile difference between me and the farm.

bcattoes

Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble, but Japanese people dont eat edamame and dragon rolls every day. In fact, good luck going into a restaurant in Japan and finding edamame on the menu.

Every Japanese restaurant in my town (all 3 of them) serve edamame but what is served in Amercan Japanese restaurants is very off point, as is whether ot not something is eaten everyday. Tofu is soy, miso is soy, edamame is soy, dried soy beans are soy, soy butter is soy, soy milk is soy, and they are all healthy foods for those without a soy allergy/intollerance.

I think it's great you've made you're own decision on this and have been seeing wonderful results. But since we all don't know each other's medical conditions or the conditions of others who are reading this since it is a public forum I just really find it unsafe to continue to push that soy is healthy for anyone without an allergy or intolerance. I personally have only brought up the estrogen-like activity it has in our body but you also have to consider the thousands of gallons of pesticide and herbicide dumped on soy crops throughout the US everyday. That gets into every product you mentioned. I'm just trying to again, reiterate that it is a personal choice. Do your own research based off of your own medical conditions and needs and decide whether you want to eat soy or not.

And again, the true problem with soy may come from its over processing here in the US. Or it may be that Asian cultures eat a healthy balance of fermented(soy sauce, miso) and unfermented soy and therefore tolerate things better. And if you really want to get into things, every ethnicity has their own metabolic traits depending on where their ancestors came from, what they ate, the conditions they endured, etc etc. Everyone's metabolic make up is different and thats why it's so important for people to try things for themselves and see how effects them. Plus people say soy is so much better than red meat, but fail to make the same conclusion that grass fed beef is not the same as corn-fed. So you don't have to drop meat, you could also switch to grass-fed pastured products. Just saying, theres more variables and options to consider out there.

I think this thread has shown sides for and against soy quite well but theres not point trying to convince someone who has clearly made their decision and is sticking with it. If you're on the fence about soy, do some research and decide for yourself.

The argument of pesticides has nothing to with soy, since you can buy organic soy products just the same as you can buy other organic food products. And I'm not "pushing" soy, I'm simply stating that it is a healthy food. There are people with intollerances to any food you can name, but we don't say "carrots are unhealthy" just because some people can't eat them. Someone posted that soy is unhealthy, while that may be true for that poster, it is NOT true as a general statement. Soy is a healhty food.

The argument of pesticides has everything to do with soy since soy is the main crop the mega-monster Monsanto has focused it's evil on. Plus just because organic products are available doesn't mean that people can afford them, or that they are available to them. Trust me there are plenty of slums, ghettos, and overall low socio-economic status areas across the country that have little more than fast food restaurants and gas stations maybe a drug store as their main food sources. And I doubt "stop-n-go" is going to be carrying organic soy milk. Most americans don't eat straight soy, they get soy by way of additives in their food, the lovely chemical laundry list which no average Joe can read. I'm just stating that fermented soy does not have the estrogen-like effects that unfermented does and therefore is safer. Until there are decades of research done on how unfermented soy's estrogen-like effects really influence our bodies, I'm not trusting it and wouldn't say it's healthy. And using your own logic, just because soy is working great for you and healthy for you doesn't mean that's true as a general statement. Fermented soy is a healthy food (when low-sodium), Unfermented soy is still up for debate. Not saying it's evil, just saying I don't want anything in my body, messing with my hormones until there are decades of research saying it's ok.

I agree pesticides are bad. I agree organic food is better. I agree that if people choose to eat soy in unhealthy forms it is unhealthy. Monsanto has nothing to do with my point. Saying soy is unhealthy because some processed food additives made from soy are unhealthy is about the same as saying cucumbers are unhealthy because fied pickles are unhealthy.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/the-secret-of-edamame

freerange

It is not just Technology, Entertainment, and Design it is intelligent people spreading new ideas to live better. It is home to many profound talks given by Nobel prize holders ect.

I would have loved to have an actual discussion with you about this, but considering my original post was not directed towards you and you show no effort to be open minded I do not wish continue.

Well if you don’t care to have your profound, intelligent, Nobel prize winning discussions challenged then you are correct in not wanting to discuss this with me. The open mind card doesn’t really work with me, because I could care less about how you think my mind works. That is like saying we can have a discussion about me stating 4+4=8, and you saying well if you don’t want to have an open mind there is no use discussing this further. Vegetarian being green is a myth, that is a fact, no matter how many Nobel Prize winning idiots you trot out to say otherwise. After all Obama won the Noble peace prize, and now has us in four different wars, Nobel is a joke.

sarah_ep

There will be transportation costs associated with most all food products unless you are living sustainably from your own farmed food sources. Which, if you're able to do that in this day and age, serious props to you.

There are costs from pasture to market in raising a crop...

Transportation of seed
Planting
Fertilization of crops
Pesticide treatments
Irrigation
Harvesting
Sorting
Cooling, refrigeration, and storage (not all crops - sileage and grains are milled and stored)
Transportation of final crop
Rotation and reclaim of crop fields
Fertilization

Restart...

Costs and resources are, of course, dependent on the size and scale of that crop operation.

With raising livestock - cattle for example - for a food source:

Fertilization and reproduction of the herd
Introduction of new herd members (by birth or by transport - auction)
Grazing vs. Feeding (cattle typically lead a pastured grass fed diet - prior to being sold on the market they're fattened with a grain fed diet. Some are 100% grass fed, depends. The grain feeding is a resource drain compared to the grass feeding as you're relying on the transport and growth of a separate crop to feed.)
Protecting the livelihood of the herd through veterinary costs, shelter as needed
Transportation of cattle to auction or slaughter
Slaughter / separation of usuable food from byproduct
Packaging
Cooling and refrigeration
Transportation (depending if this is going to another location for end sale)
Optional - re-packaging (in the case of a grocer who is shipped meats in larger economy packaging then breaks down into individual)


The sustainability and cost of what you're eating is dependent on the number of steps and resources involved in each to get the food from the field to your mouth. There are also considerable costs in post-processing non-meat food sources. There are also considerations of sustainable land usage and crop rotation which are a rising concern in certain areas of the world. There are also concerns with hybridazation of crops, etc. etc. I could go on for a while...

So, as cruel as it may seem to some, putting a gun to Bambi's head (assuming you have a hunting permit) is far less draining of our resources than buying a pack of beef from the supermarket.

Whenever possible, I source meat locally. Meaning, I get it direct from the farm that raised and slaughtered the meat. My current source of beef is my second cousin's farm. I know the source, know what went into raising it, and know where it was slaughtered and packed. All steps of this are within 15 miles of one another. The larger cost in me obtaining this meat is the 350 mile difference between me and the farm.

I agree completely. There are costs with every food source including vegetation. However, I was stating that eating less meat is better for the environment. More sources:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2699173/Eat-less-red-meat-to-help-the-environment-UN-climate-expert-says.html
http://news.change.org/stories/less-meat-monday-does-eating-less-meat-really-help-stop-global-warming
http://www.green571.com/meat.html
http://environment.about.com/od/greenlivingdesign/a/30_minutes.htm

There are TONS more. You can google them. I am not, nor will I ever be, a vegetarian but I do believe that many people do eat too much meat.

freerange

There are TONS more. You can google them. I am not, nor will I ever be, a vegetarian but I do believe that many people do eat too much meat.

Really, then it must have been someone else that posted this;

I just became a "weekday vegetarian" a couple of months ago for green and economical reasons. I am considering becoming a vegetarian full time since the rewards have been greater than I expected. I am always looking for new recipes. Friend me!

Trying to impress the greenies maybe?

sarah_ep

There are TONS more. You can google them. I am not, nor will I ever be, a vegetarian but I do believe that many people do eat too much meat.

Really, then it must have been someone else that posted this;

I just became a "weekday vegetarian" a couple of months ago for green and economical reasons. I am considering becoming a vegetarian full time since the rewards have been greater than I expected. I am always looking for new recipes. Friend me!

Trying to impress the greenies maybe?

"Weekday Vegetarian" is merely the name of organization and a term that is used to quickly describe the path that you are taking. Being an actual vegetarian involves not eating meat which I still do. I was merely contributing to a conversation. Yes it was a thought in my mind to become full time for the last several days however, due to other circumstances it has changed. This has been a discussion with family for the last several days and we decided not to. I am not quite sure what your agenda is here, and have yet to see any sources from you.

Barneystinson

Squabbling aside on this thread, assuming you're highly concerned about the quality of meat and the environment, buy humanely raised and local. Yes, it's more expensive. So therefore, if you don't have a limitless budget (don't we all wish this), you'll control meat portions simply by the limits of your spending.

I'm guilty, just like many others, of buying less expensive and not as humanely raised meat, but I do try to strike a balance and make 1/2 of my consumption wild and humanely raised meats. Hoping to increase that percentage in the future as my budget allows.

freerange

"Weekday Vegetarian" is merely the name of organization and a term that is used to quickly describe the path that you are taking. Being an actual vegetarian involves not eating meat which I still do. I was merely contributing to a conversation. Yes it was a thought in my mind to become full time for the last several days however, due to other circumstances it has changed. This has been a discussion with family for the last several days and we decided not to. I am not quite sure what your agenda is here, and have yet to see any sources from you.

My only agenda is to shine the light of truth on the vegan lies, nothing more. I accept you have decided to not go the veggy route, doesn’t really matter if you did or not, there is no harm in being a veggy, as long as you don’t lie to me about why, and try to convince me that being veggy is somehow “better” than being a omnivore.
There is no need for sources, I can post sources all day, so can you, at the end of the day if your sources try to claim being a veggy is good and eating meat is bad, then your sources are wrong. If you compare factory farming with factory ranching there isn’t a spits worth of difference in global affect. And if you compare sustainable farming with sustainable ranching there is a big argument that can be made that the meat eater is better for the environment.
Here is a good source for you, read the book The Omnivore’s Dilemma, maybe it will open, your mind.

sarah_ep

"Weekday Vegetarian" is merely the name of organization and a term that is used to quickly describe the path that you are taking. Being an actual vegetarian involves not eating meat which I still do. I was merely contributing to a conversation. Yes it was a thought in my mind to become full time for the last several days however, due to other circumstances it has changed. This has been a discussion with family for the last several days and we decided not to. I am not quite sure what your agenda is here, and have yet to see any sources from you.

My only agenda is to shine the light of truth on the vegan lies, nothing more. I accept you have decided to not go the veggy route, doesn’t really matter if you did or not, there is no harm in being a veggy, as long as you don’t lie to me about why, and try to convince me that being veggy is somehow “better” than being a omnivore.
There is no need for sources, I can post sources all day, so can you, at the end of the day if your sources try to claim being a veggy is good and eating meat is bad, then your sources are wrong. If you compare factory farming with factory ranching there isn’t a spits worth of difference in global affect. And if you compare sustainable farming with sustainable ranching there is a big argument that can be made that the meat eater is better for the environment.
Here is a good source for you, read the book The Omnivore’s Dilemma, maybe it will open, your mind.

I am sorry if you thought I was misleading in anyway, but based upon your responses I do not see this as a constructive or rewarding argument/debate. I hope you have a great day!

brneydgrlie

What's a troll?? The little dolls with crazy hair and jewels for bellybuttons? In that case, no.

Basically, a troll is someone who surfs the boards and comments with the intention of stirring up trouble and picking fights. The poster who asked you this has a legitimate point. Your comments have been rude and pretty judgemental, especially considering you probably do not know the OP.