How and why carbs and a high carb intake will keep you fat!!

CoryIda

I've lost over 90 pounds and GAINED quite a bit of muscle - healthy muscle definition in my arms and legs, and have very little tummy fat left.
I eat quite a few carbs each day - mostly whole grains and fresh fruits/veggies. About 50% of my calorie intake comes from carbs, with about 25% fats (mostly healthy fats like from avocadoes and such) and 25% from protein (which comes out to around 80-90 grams/day). It's not a magic formula, but it has certainly worked for me.
Eating nutritious, well-balanced meals and snacks, drinking lots of water, and exercising regularly will help you be healthy - not just thin - which, as you correctly pointed out, doesn't mean much - but HEALTHY.
Whole grains and fresh fruits are SO important because they provide your body with a variety of nutrients as well as fiber, vitamins, and antioxidants that help your body function properly.

freerange

It tells me, you were caught and are now trying to run from previous statements.

Um, no. Who the heck would say that a diet in those foods is radical?

Um,,, the vegan I was addressing? That discussion was about the diet, not the philosophy behind it, no one brought up the craziness behind “SOME” of the reasons for being a vegan. It was about the DIET, you changed it to the PHILOSOPHY. I’m going to leave for awhile, and no I’m not upset. LOL I’m going to eat lunch.

TK421NotAtPost

Oy I can't read this anymore...a certain someone makes me want to punch a puppy...

Carry on.

LOL, I seriously commend you for making it this far. At the end of the day, we are all just obsessing over things that don't matter much. The paralysis by analysis trap! It's best to just go out and see what works best for you... some people do better with low carb diets, some do better with moderate carb diets...and a lucky few do best with a bit more carbs.

End6ame

I'm curious what your definition of a (ratio or whatever other form you prefer) of a high carb, low protein diet is.

I find these generalities without context confusing.

40/40/20 protein.carb/fat is what most recommend

WHO recommends that? No nationally accredited health organization I know recommends 40% protein.

Bro-science recommends that.

I am all for protein but there is really no need to go over 30-35% or roughly 1g/lb of lean body mass, NOT BODY WEIGHT. And I mean this as an upper bound, not a rule of thumb for the masses.

mynameisuntz

Um,,, the vegan I was addressing? That discussion was about the diet, not the philosophy behind it, no one brought up the craziness behind “SOME” of the reasons for being a vegan. It was about the DIET, you changed it to the PHILOSOPHY. I’m going to leave for awhile, and no I’m not upset. LOL I’m going to eat lunch.

I don't know. I don't read every single post.

Then I'll make it perfectly clear: the food options which paleo emphasizes are not radical or irrational. They are unbelievably healthy. Period. The food options which paleo discourages, however, is radical and irrational.

I'm not a fan of restriction, and as such I don't draw distinctions between what a diet allows and does not allow. I read "paleo diet" as the guidelines of a dietary structure; not the specific food choices on the menu. Based on the different interpretation of the word "diet" - which to me ties into the philosophical foundation/rationale for the diet - paleo is radical and irrational. The food choices? No. The guidelines? Yes. Both things, when looking at a formally structured diet, go hand-in-hand. To me. And so that's how I perceived it.

Clear enough?

erickirb

I see tons of people on MFP complaining about either lack of weight loss even under a deficit OR lack of muscle growth/fat loss.

How to say it, have you ever seen a fat skinny person? Their weight is in check but they have no definition at all and are for the lack of a better term shaped like an "Ameba"" well one of the biggest reasons is people are doing cardio with a very high carb intake and low protein intake so the body starts to feed on muscle versus fat so you start to lose overall size but still are chubby with no definition and you may ask WHY does the human body eat muscle, well it's actually easier for the human body to convert muscle into energy versus fat, as the body needs to apply the least amount of energy into converting something into energy.

I think this video will help people further understand why I personally think as well as TONS of others in the nutrition world think that your protein level should be as high if not higher then your carb intake. MFP's default carb intake is through the roof and it may work in your weight loss journey but it hardly helps in getting a toned physique like most members on here are looking for.

Please watch this video to gain better knowledge on carbs and how they affect your body

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se32MuJCFXk&feature=related

I disagree, I eat 50% carbs, 25% protein, 25% fat, and have pretty low BF%. I need the carbs for the energy to perform my workouts at my best. Nutritionists typically recommend 15-30% protein, closer to the 30% for those that do strength training, as that is the amount you get in a balanced diet.

My wife last her baby weight in 3 months by eating about 60% carbs 10-15% protein, and the rest fat, and was eating 1800 to 2000 calories/day. She is 5'4.5" 120 lbs, and does very little exercise.

leighton1245

Best adivce to give someone on here is go try it and if you dont get results then try something else. JUST BE CAREFUL with what you do and listen to your body.

erickirb

Is butter a carb?

Yes, ha ha, gotta love Mean Girls.

mynameisuntz

At the end of the day, we are all just obsessing over things that don't matter much. The paralysis by analysis trap!

PRECISELY why I despise threads like this one. All it does is perpetuate the fear-mongering that the health industry thrives on. That's why I promote the simplest diet plan, because in most cases, that is the one that will succeed the longest. Research proves that as restrictions tend to go hand-in-hand with dropout rates.

My diet plan is a 3 step hierarchy of importance:

1) Moderate calories based on goal.
2) Moderate macronutrients based on goal - specifically get 1g protein per pound lean body mass.
3) Make whole, micronutrient-dense foods your dietary staples.

That's it. Carb intake, meal timing, meal frequency, food source, post-workout nutrition, etc. - forget about it. It doesn't matter for 99% of people assuming one, or preferably all three, of these conditions are met. For those who are elite athletes or have some sort of clinical condition - they may have to make some adjustments, but they'll know how to do that rather easily.

SHBoss1673

I'm curious what your definition of a (ratio or whatever other form you prefer) of a high carb, low protein diet is.

I find these generalities without context confusing.

40/40/20 protein.carb/fat is what most recommend

WHO recommends that? No nationally accredited health organization I know recommends 40% protein.

Bro-science recommends that.

I am all for protein but there is really no need to go over 30-35% or roughly 1g/lb of lean body mass, NOT BODY WEIGHT.

Bro-science finally got their accreditation? Nice!

Chuckw40

Best adivce to give someone on here is go try it and if you dont get results then try something else. JUST BE CAREFUL with what you do and listen to your body.

And don't even think about mentioning Paleo/Primal or you will be eviscerated!

erickirb

At the end of the day, we are all just obsessing over things that don't matter much. The paralysis by analysis trap!

PRECISELY why I despise threads like this one. All it does is perpetuate the fear-mongering that the health industry thrives on. That's why I promote the simplest diet plan, because in most cases, that is the one that will succeed the longest. Research proves that as restrictions tend to go hand-in-hand with dropout rates.

My diet plan is a 3 step hierarchy of importance:

1) Moderate calories based on goal.
2) Moderate macronutrients based on goal - specifically get 1g protein per pound lean body mass.
3) Make whole, micronutrient-dense foods your dietary staples.

That's it. Carb intake, meal timing, meal frequency, food source, post-workout nutrition, etc. - forget about it. It doesn't matter for 99% of people assuming one, or preferably all three, of these conditions are met. For those who are elite athletes or have some sort of clinical condition - they may have to make some adjustments, but they'll know how to do that rather easily.

You don't need that much protein. 1to 2 grams/kg of body weight is sufficient for 99% of the population, or better yet 15-30% of total calories depending on their caloric intake..

leighton1245

At the end of the day, we are all just obsessing over things that don't matter much. The paralysis by analysis trap!

PRECISELY why I despise threads like this one. All it does is perpetuate the fear-mongering that the health industry thrives on. That's why I promote the simplest diet plan, because in most cases, that is the one that will succeed the longest. Research proves that as restrictions tend to go hand-in-hand with dropout rates.

My diet plan is a 3 step hierarchy of importance:

1) Moderate calories based on goal.
2) Moderate macronutrients based on goal - specifically get 1g protein per pound lean body mass.
3) Make whole, micronutrient-dense foods your dietary staples.

That's it. Carb intake, meal timing, meal frequency, food source, post-workout nutrition, etc. - forget about it. It doesn't matter for 99% of people assuming one, or preferably all three, of these conditions are met. For those who are elite athletes or have some sort of clinical condition - they may have to make some adjustments, but they'll know how to do that rather easily.

PRECISELY why I despise threads like this one. <--- If you despise threads like this one why in the world would you keep coming back in and posting? MAKES NO Sence lol Just throwing that out there

TK421NotAtPost

I'm curious what your definition of a (ratio or whatever other form you prefer) of a high carb, low protein diet is.

I find these generalities without context confusing.

40/40/20 protein.carb/fat is what most recommend

WHO recommends that? No nationally accredited health organization I know recommends 40% protein.

Bro-science recommends that.

I am all for protein but there is really no need to go over 30-35% or roughly 1g/lb of lean body mass, NOT BODY WEIGHT.

I would say that optimal protein levels are context dependent...i.e, body-fat percentage, calorie level (deficit or surplus?), and weight training activity levels. The first two variables would be inversely related and the third would be positively related to optimal protein requirements.

mynameisuntz

You don't need that much protein. 1 gram/kg of body weight is sufficient for 99% of the population. of better yet 15-30% of total calories.

Correct you don't NEED it, but research has shown that the amount I suggested will retain lean body mass better than the amount you are suggesting - ESPECIALLY when coupled with resistance training.

It all depends on your goals. For pure fat loss or pure muscle gain (depending on caloric deficit vs. caloric surplus): 1g per pound LBM is better than 1g per pound kg body weight.

karlz87

bump

erickirb

You don't need that much protein. 1 gram/kg of body weight is sufficient for 99% of the population. of better yet 15-30% of total calories.

Correct you don't NEED it, but research has shown that the amount I suggested will retain lean body mass better than the amount you are suggesting - ESPECIALLY when coupled with resistance training.

It all depends on your goals. For pure fat loss or pure muscle gain (depending on caloric deficit vs. caloric surplus): 1g per pound LBM is better than 1g per pound kg body weight.

The research that I have come across shows no added benefit of retaining or building lean mass or consuming more than 30% of total calories from protein. which depending on your intake may meet the 1g/lb. if you are trying to gain say eating 3000 calories that sould be 225 grams so if you weight 225, then that is enough, but if you are trying to lose and eating 1800, you would not need more than 135, even if you weight 190lbs.

mynameisuntz

PRECISELY why I despise threads like this one. <--- If you despise threads like this one why in the world would you keep coming back in and posting? MAKES NO Sence lol Just throwing that out there

Because I think the OP is doing a disservice by perpetuating carb-phobia. I am refuting that nonsense. If I can convince even one person to not buy into the OP's irrational claims, then I succeeded.

Considering the friend requests and mail I've gotten about this thread, I've done everything I can. So I'm pleased with the result. If people just read both sides with an open mind, it's just abundantly clear that the low carb mentality is wrong *when applied to the general population.* Yes some people will thrive on low carb, specifically diabetics or insulin resistant people, but the rest of us do NOT need low carb.

mynameisuntz

The research that I have come across shows no added benefit of retaining or building lean mass or consuming more than 30% of total calories from protein. which depending on your intake may meet the 1g/lb. if you are trying to gain say eating 3000 calories that sould be 225 grams so if you weight 225, then that is enough, but if you are trying to lose and eating 1800, you would not need more than 135, even if you weight 190lbs.

Actually it's the opposite. Protein is MORE critical when losing fat as a caloric deficit puts you at a higher risk of muscle catabolism. Protein's muscle-sparing effects are thus more important while cutting. If anything, MORE than 1g per pound LBM is safer for cutting. Whereas 1g per pound LBM in most cases is the max needed for bulking (again, "in most cases").

Here:

"These results indicate that approximately 2.3g x kg was significantly superior to approximately 1.0g x kg protein for maintenance of lean body mass in young healthy athletes during short-term hypoenergetic weight loss."

-Mettler S, Mitchell N, Tipton KD. Increased protein intake reduces lean body mass loss during weight loss in athletes. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2010 Feb;42(2):326-37.

The idea of eating 1g per pound LBM is still pretty out there as far as the science and nutritional community is concerned, so research on that high an intake is still pretty sparse. It's coming, though, and there are studies out there like the one I just posted that do provide insight into a "radically high" protein intake.

Also - ratios are kind of meaningless, remember. 40% of a 3,000 calorie diet = 300g protein, which wouldn't be necessary unless you had a good 220g lean mass on you and you're cutting. Whereas 40% of a 1,200 calorie diet = 120g protein, which would be a pretty good intake for a girl who is 120 lbs. and cutting.

Disregard ratios.

leighton1245

PRECISELY why I despise threads like this one. <--- If you despise threads like this one why in the world would you keep coming back in and posting? MAKES NO Sence lol Just throwing that out there

Because I think the OP is doing a disservice by perpetuating carb-phobia.

Yes some people will thrive on low carb, specifically diabetics or insulin resistant people, but the rest of us do NOT need low carb.

I think that it might have been worded wrong but i dont think that the OP was perpetuating carb-phobia just the a fact that consuming excessive amounts of carbs can have a negitive effect on forward progress towards someones goal.

I do think that your last statment though is accurate. Most of the gerenal populous dont need low carbs or have the accurate knowledge to safely perform a low carb diet with out having negitive unkown effects. Please dont take this as im for or against any diets at all.

TK421NotAtPost

You don't need that much protein. 1 gram/kg of body weight is sufficient for 99% of the population. of better yet 15-30% of total calories.

Correct you don't NEED it, but research has shown that the amount I suggested will retain lean body mass better than the amount you are suggesting - ESPECIALLY when coupled with resistance training.

It all depends on your goals. For pure fat loss or pure muscle gain (depending on caloric deficit vs. caloric surplus): 1g per pound LBM is better than 1g per pound kg body weight.

The research that I have come across shows no added benefit of retaining or building lean mass or consuming more than 30% of total calories from protein. which depending on your intake may meet the 1g/lb. if you are trying to gain say eating 3000 calories that sould be 225 grams so if you weight 225, then that is enough, but if you are trying to lose and eating 1800, you would not need more than 135, even if you weight 190lbs.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19927027

UNTZ, you beat me to it!

There are other research studies that have shown improved sparing of lean mass with protein consumptions as high as 1.5 grams per lb of bodyweight when on a low calorie diet, but don't have them at the tip of my hand..

jmuzzio7

Bump

chevy88grl

I eat carbs. I eat protein. Heck, I even eat sugar and sodium. I do cardio. I do strength training.

I've lost almost 60lbs. I truly believe it isn't necessarily about what you're eating - but how much of it. I have some days when my carbs are VERY high, protein low. Other days when carbs are low and protein is VERY high.

I'm doing just fine. I truly believe you can eat all of those things and still be successful at weight loss. Heck. It has worked for me.

LdyGeko

Because I think the OP is doing a disservice by perpetuating carb-phobia. I am refuting that nonsense. If I can convince even one person to not buy into the OP's irrational claims, then I succeeded.

Considering the friend requests and mail I've gotten about this thread, I've done everything I can. So I'm pleased with the result. If people just read both sides with an open mind, it's just abundantly clear that the low carb mentality is wrong *when applied to the general population.* Yes some people will thrive on low carb, specifically diabetics or insulin resistant people, but the rest of us do NOT need low carb.

The point is, we are all adults here, Untz, capable of doing our own research and making our own choices.

leighton1245

I eat carbs. I eat protein. Heck, I even eat sugar and sodium. I do cardio. I do strength training.

I've lost almost 60lbs. I truly believe it isn't necessarily about what you're eating - but how much of it. I have some days when my carbs are VERY high, protein low. Other days when carbs are low and protein is VERY high.

I'm doing just fine. I truly believe you can eat all of those things and still be successful at weight loss. Heck. It has worked for me.

Congrats on losing 60+ lbs, but there is a point where everything that you are eating counts.

As for people that have a higher BF% it doesnt matter as much but for those of use that dont or those of use that have single digit BF it does and there isnt anyone person that is the same. This was in no way directed at you just wanted to say congrats on your weight lose.

mynameisuntz

I think that it might have been worded wrong but i dont think that the OP was perpetuating carb-phobia just the a fact that consuming excessive amounts of carbs can have a negitive effect on forward progress towards someones goal.

I do think that your last statment though is accurate. Most of the gerenal populous dont need low carbs or have the accurate knowledge to safely perform a low carb diet with out having negitive unkown effects. Please dont take this as im for or against any diets at all.

He never explained what "excessive amounts of carbs" implies. He never mentioned a caloric surplus. Is 300g carbs high? 200g carbs? 100g carbs? 400g carbs? Because eating 400g carbs = 1,600 calories = a caloric deficit for most people here, which inherently means you will NOT keep fat, but you will lose it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19927027

UNTZ, you beat me to it!

There are other research studies that have shown improved sparing of lean mass with protein consumptions as high as 1.5 grams per lb of bodyweight when on a low calorie diet, but don't have them at the tip of my hand..

I out-nerded you!

I eat carbs. I eat protein. Heck, I even eat sugar and sodium. I do cardio. I do strength training.

I've lost almost 60lbs. I truly believe it isn't necessarily about what you're eating - but how much of it. I have some days when my carbs are VERY high, protein low. Other days when carbs are low and protein is VERY high.

I'm doing just fine. I truly believe you can eat all of those things and still be successful at weight loss. Heck. It has worked for me.

Good! Keep believing that because it is 100% true :]

The point is, we are all adults here, Untz, capable of doing our own research and making our own choices.

I said, "Yes some people will thrive on low carb, specifically diabetics or insulin resistant people, but the rest of us do NOT need low carb."

If you want to do low carb, go for it. You have my blessing. But when people make threads saying "high carb intake will keep you fat" - I'm going to respond, and I'm going to explain why they are wrong. Anyone who believes a low carb diet is universally superior is wrong. If it works for you, do it! Seriously, do it. I think that's great that you know what works for you and you have the discipline to fulfill it. But do not, for one minute, tell me what will work best for me and the rest of the world when it's completely unfounded in anything remotely factual.

SHBoss1673

You don't need that much protein. 1 gram/kg of body weight is sufficient for 99% of the population. of better yet 15-30% of total calories.

Correct you don't NEED it, but research has shown that the amount I suggested will retain lean body mass better than the amount you are suggesting - ESPECIALLY when coupled with resistance training.

It all depends on your goals. For pure fat loss or pure muscle gain (depending on caloric deficit vs. caloric surplus): 1g per pound LBM is better than 1g per pound kg body weight.

The research that I have come across shows no added benefit of retaining or building lean mass or consuming more than 30% of total calories from protein. which depending on your intake may meet the 1g/lb. if you are trying to gain say eating 3000 calories that sould be 225 grams so if you weight 225, then that is enough, but if you are trying to lose and eating 1800, you would not need more than 135, even if you weight 190lbs.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19927027

UNTZ, you beat me to it!

There are other research studies that have shown improved sparing of lean mass with protein consumptions as high as 1.5 grams per lb of bodyweight when on a low calorie diet, but don't have them at the tip of my hand..

i'd be VERY careful throwing around this study, it's a short term study (done over 2 weeks, with 1 week being a control) and using highly trained performance athletes, who will have significantly different metabolic effects than 99% of the general population.

I have 4 or 5 studies somewhere, i'll see if I can dig them up, that show pretty much the opposite results with obese and normal weight individuals, I.E. high protein intake didn't make any significant change in LBM while increasing urea output (I.E. increased kidney function and liver function which can be a bad thing, especially if the person has metabolic related disorders that can effect organs).

I'd say this, we're pretty sure that between .4g and .7g per pound body weight in protein will be relatively safe, and won't cause any serious long term health effects (another problem with these studies, no long term research means for people who need to do this for a year or more, we just don't know what it could do to them) in and of itself. Thus I'd always lean towards caution.

Personally, my theory is that as body fat % goes down, the need for protein goes up with moderate to intense exercise, there is some correlation for this (again, I'll have to find the studies, I'm at work so I can't right now), but ultimately, caps out somewhere around .7 to .8 grams per lb of body weight (I.E. between 1 gram per Kilo and 1.5 grams per kilo body weight) with extreme athletes sometimes being able to utilize up to 2 grams per kilo (just shy of 1 gram per pound).

I will say I think we're splitting hairs a bit here though, if you tell someone to eat around .6 grams per pound, I think they'd be fine in 95% of the cases.

LdyGeko

The point is, we are all adults here, Untz, capable of doing our own research and making our own choices.

I said, "Yes some people will thrive on low carb, specifically diabetics or insulin resistant people, but the rest of us do NOT need low carb."

If you want to do low carb, go for it. You have my blessing. But when people make threads saying "high carb intake will keep you fat" - I'm going to respond, and I'm going to explain why they are wrong. Anyone who believes a low carb diet is universally superior is wrong. If it works for you, do it! Seriously, do it. I think that's great that you know what works for you and you have the discipline to fulfill it. But do not, for one minute, tell me what will work best for me and the rest of the world when it's completely unfounded in anything remotely factual.

The OP posted something that is his OPINION. Your posts are your OPINION and your interpretation of your studies, research, reading, whatever. You seem to think that if someone disagrees with you, then they must not have the level of intelligence necessary to read the research themselves.

It's not that the OP is wrong and you are right, or vice versa. They are OPINIONs, Just because someone disagrees with your opinion does mean that they have an IQ of 4.

bunchesonothing

Was this just locked?

ladyhawk00

If there continue to be attacks and insults, we'll have to lock/remove the thread, and we really prefer not to do that. Feel free to voice opinions, discuss, debate and disagree about the topic at hand - but keep the commentary about other users and your opinions of them to yourself.

4) Do not attack/slam/insult other users. The forums are here so that members can help support one another. Attacks or insults against each other takes away from the supportive atmosphere and will not be tolerated. You can discuss the message or topic, but not the messenger - NO EXCEPTIONS. If you are attacked by another user, and you reciprocate, YOU will also be subject to the same consequences. Defending yourself, defending a friend, etc. are NOT excuses. Violations of this rule are taken very seriously and may result in being banned without warning! If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

There is never a need for insults or belittling another person on the forums. Debate is encouraged, but keep it respectful and on topic at all times.

Thank you for your cooperation.
Ladyhawk00
MyFitnessPal Forum Moderator