How and why carbs and a high carb intake will keep you fat!!

freerange

Furthermore I never said a calorie is a calorie. A calorie is a calorie in the same way a car is a car. Obviously there are vast differences between a Ferrari and a Honda, but at the end of the day they both have an engine, 4 wheels, and get you from point A to point B. In that sense, a calorie is a calorie. But obviously there are subgroups of calories that will have different metabolic effects.

Actually, you're wrong. The glucose from veggies vs the glucose from pasta are the same once they are broken down and metabolized.

Glucose is glucose. Fructose is fructose. Food source is irrelevant.

How is me saying "glucose is glucose" equate to me saying "a calorie is a calorie"? What?

Glucose IS glucose. It is defined by its molecular structure - and THAT is what the body sees. Every glucose on this planet has the same molecular structure. Period. Thus the glucose from broccoli is interpreted exactly the same as the glucose from pasta.

The difference between pasta and broccoli lies in its micronutrients and the respect amounts of glucose (once metabolized and absorbed). There is no "type" of glucose, where the "type" of glucose in broccoli would be different than the "type" of glucose in pasta. Glucose is glucose.

In regards to the molecular structure of glucose, fructose, leucine, polyunsaturated fat, etc. the food source is irrelevant; our bodies ONLY see the molecular structure. The difference between food sources, for the most part, is the micronutrient content. Hence why broccoli is typically better than ice cream even if calories/macronutrients are the same: broccoli has micronutrients whereas ice cream is largely void of micronutrients.

So glucose is glucose, except it's better for you if it comes from broccoli instead of ice cream????? I see. LOL

You completely mis-read his point. That's not what he was saying at all. The resulting glucose is the same... the accompanying micronutrients are what make the difference.

Not misreading it at all, the thing is you can't seperate the two. Glucose acts different from Broccoli, because of the accompanying micronutrients. I agree if you squeeze the glucose out of broccoli and ice cream and only eat the glucose they will act the same.

mynameisuntz

It's all fun, it only hurts if it's the truth.

You can spin this anyway you want the fact is you changed the argument just enough to fit your ideal. And that was the point, not if you think Paleo is extreme, or not. You could have posted, something along the lines of; you're right the diet is not extreme, but some of the people behind the movement take things to the extreme. That would have been on subject, and expanded to your thoughts over all on Paleo.

I thought it was implied, but apparently not. Why do you think I just elaborated more on it? Because you weren't understanding. And that's fine, but you're drawing me out to be someone who is purposely misconstruing or purposely changing the topic to avoid admitting being wrong or something? The fact is I just talk a certain way, and clearly there is a misunderstanding between us, but the very fact that I'm correcting those misunderstandings should tell you I'm not trying to run away from anything.

mynameisuntz

Not misreading it at all, the thing is you can't seperate the two. Glucose acts different from Broccoli, because of the accompanying micronutrients. I agree if you squeeze the glucose out of broccoli and ice cream and only eat the glucose they will act the same.

SOME of the glucose may act differently due to the fiber content, but not all. SOME of the glucose from broccoli will act exactly the same as that from ice cream. They will be released in the blood stream as free glucose and eventually be converted to ATP for cell fuel, or stored as glycogen. This is the fate of free glucose which WILL occur with much of the glucose from broccoli upon being metabolized.

Exactly the same as ice cream.

freerange

From a molecular classification standpoint, glucose IS glucose. Regardless of the food source. And guess what? Your body sees NO DIFFERENCE between the glucose from broccoli and the glucose from a twinkie. Hate to break it to some people, but in terms of body composition, this is EXACTLY why food source is irrelevant, and all that matters is calories/macronutrients.

Now I'm really confused, food source is irrelevant? Didn't you just say, you didn't say a calorie is a calorie? Now it sounds like you ARE saying a calorie is a calorie.

freerange

It's all fun, it only hurts if it's the truth.

You can spin this anyway you want the fact is you changed the argument just enough to fit your ideal. And that was the point, not if you think Paleo is extreme, or not. You could have posted, something along the lines of; you're right the diet is not extreme, but some of the people behind the movement take things to the extreme. That would have been on subject, and expanded to your thoughts over all on Paleo.

I thought it was implied, but apparently not. Why do you think I just elaborated more on it? Because you weren't understanding. And that's fine, but you're drawing me out to be someone who is purposely misconstruing or purposely changing the topic to avoid admitting being wrong or something? The fact is I just talk a certain way, and clearly there is a misunderstanding between us, but the very fact that I'm correcting those misunderstandings should tell you I'm not trying to run away from anything.

It tells me, you were caught and are now trying to run from previous statements.

brit49

Great post!! I agree Im on a low carb and I try to up the protein and less sugar Its set way to high on this site.

mynameisuntz

Now I'm really confused, food source is irrelevant? Didn't you just say, you didn't say a calorie is a calorie? Now it sounds like you ARE saying a calorie is a calorie.

Oh my gosh, man. SERIOUSLY.

The food source regarding GLUCOSE is irrelevant. The food source regarding POLYUNSATURATED FAT is irrelevant. The food source regarding ISOLEUCINE is irrelevant. The food source regarding CALORIES is NOT irrelevant.

*When regarding body composition - which is what this thread is about.*

The fact is eating 400 calories of ice cream is NO DIFFERENT than 400 calories of broccoli with the same macronutrients in regards to body composition. The reason why we suggest the latter is for general health purposes given the micronutrient content. HOWEVER - in regards to weight loss, they will be the same.

mynameisuntz

It tells me, you were caught and are now trying to run from previous statements.

Um, no. Who the heck would say that a diet in those foods is radical? The paleo diet, for the reasons which it chooses those foods, is radical and irrational. That's what I was highlighting.

But I guess me clearing that up for people who couldn't understand that (you) is me running from previous statements. Laugh.

writtenINthestars

Oy I can't read this anymore...a certain someone makes me want to punch a puppy...

Carry on.

debbn2011

BUMP...thanks for the information! I get so confused with all this.

CoryIda

I've lost over 90 pounds and GAINED quite a bit of muscle - healthy muscle definition in my arms and legs, and have very little tummy fat left.
I eat quite a few carbs each day - mostly whole grains and fresh fruits/veggies. About 50% of my calorie intake comes from carbs, with about 25% fats (mostly healthy fats like from avocadoes and such) and 25% from protein (which comes out to around 80-90 grams/day). It's not a magic formula, but it has certainly worked for me.
Eating nutritious, well-balanced meals and snacks, drinking lots of water, and exercising regularly will help you be healthy - not just thin - which, as you correctly pointed out, doesn't mean much - but HEALTHY.
Whole grains and fresh fruits are SO important because they provide your body with a variety of nutrients as well as fiber, vitamins, and antioxidants that help your body function properly.

freerange

It tells me, you were caught and are now trying to run from previous statements.

Um, no. Who the heck would say that a diet in those foods is radical?

Um,,, the vegan I was addressing? That discussion was about the diet, not the philosophy behind it, no one brought up the craziness behind “SOME” of the reasons for being a vegan. It was about the DIET, you changed it to the PHILOSOPHY. I’m going to leave for awhile, and no I’m not upset. LOL I’m going to eat lunch.

TK421NotAtPost

Oy I can't read this anymore...a certain someone makes me want to punch a puppy...

Carry on.

LOL, I seriously commend you for making it this far. At the end of the day, we are all just obsessing over things that don't matter much. The paralysis by analysis trap! It's best to just go out and see what works best for you... some people do better with low carb diets, some do better with moderate carb diets...and a lucky few do best with a bit more carbs.

End6ame

I'm curious what your definition of a (ratio or whatever other form you prefer) of a high carb, low protein diet is.

I find these generalities without context confusing.

40/40/20 protein.carb/fat is what most recommend

WHO recommends that? No nationally accredited health organization I know recommends 40% protein.

Bro-science recommends that.

I am all for protein but there is really no need to go over 30-35% or roughly 1g/lb of lean body mass, NOT BODY WEIGHT. And I mean this as an upper bound, not a rule of thumb for the masses.

mynameisuntz

Um,,, the vegan I was addressing? That discussion was about the diet, not the philosophy behind it, no one brought up the craziness behind “SOME” of the reasons for being a vegan. It was about the DIET, you changed it to the PHILOSOPHY. I’m going to leave for awhile, and no I’m not upset. LOL I’m going to eat lunch.

I don't know. I don't read every single post.

Then I'll make it perfectly clear: the food options which paleo emphasizes are not radical or irrational. They are unbelievably healthy. Period. The food options which paleo discourages, however, is radical and irrational.

I'm not a fan of restriction, and as such I don't draw distinctions between what a diet allows and does not allow. I read "paleo diet" as the guidelines of a dietary structure; not the specific food choices on the menu. Based on the different interpretation of the word "diet" - which to me ties into the philosophical foundation/rationale for the diet - paleo is radical and irrational. The food choices? No. The guidelines? Yes. Both things, when looking at a formally structured diet, go hand-in-hand. To me. And so that's how I perceived it.

Clear enough?

erickirb

I see tons of people on MFP complaining about either lack of weight loss even under a deficit OR lack of muscle growth/fat loss.

How to say it, have you ever seen a fat skinny person? Their weight is in check but they have no definition at all and are for the lack of a better term shaped like an "Ameba"" well one of the biggest reasons is people are doing cardio with a very high carb intake and low protein intake so the body starts to feed on muscle versus fat so you start to lose overall size but still are chubby with no definition and you may ask WHY does the human body eat muscle, well it's actually easier for the human body to convert muscle into energy versus fat, as the body needs to apply the least amount of energy into converting something into energy.

I think this video will help people further understand why I personally think as well as TONS of others in the nutrition world think that your protein level should be as high if not higher then your carb intake. MFP's default carb intake is through the roof and it may work in your weight loss journey but it hardly helps in getting a toned physique like most members on here are looking for.

Please watch this video to gain better knowledge on carbs and how they affect your body

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se32MuJCFXk&feature=related

I disagree, I eat 50% carbs, 25% protein, 25% fat, and have pretty low BF%. I need the carbs for the energy to perform my workouts at my best. Nutritionists typically recommend 15-30% protein, closer to the 30% for those that do strength training, as that is the amount you get in a balanced diet.

My wife last her baby weight in 3 months by eating about 60% carbs 10-15% protein, and the rest fat, and was eating 1800 to 2000 calories/day. She is 5'4.5" 120 lbs, and does very little exercise.

leighton1245

Best adivce to give someone on here is go try it and if you dont get results then try something else. JUST BE CAREFUL with what you do and listen to your body.

erickirb

Is butter a carb?

Yes, ha ha, gotta love Mean Girls.

mynameisuntz

At the end of the day, we are all just obsessing over things that don't matter much. The paralysis by analysis trap!

PRECISELY why I despise threads like this one. All it does is perpetuate the fear-mongering that the health industry thrives on. That's why I promote the simplest diet plan, because in most cases, that is the one that will succeed the longest. Research proves that as restrictions tend to go hand-in-hand with dropout rates.

My diet plan is a 3 step hierarchy of importance:

1) Moderate calories based on goal.
2) Moderate macronutrients based on goal - specifically get 1g protein per pound lean body mass.
3) Make whole, micronutrient-dense foods your dietary staples.

That's it. Carb intake, meal timing, meal frequency, food source, post-workout nutrition, etc. - forget about it. It doesn't matter for 99% of people assuming one, or preferably all three, of these conditions are met. For those who are elite athletes or have some sort of clinical condition - they may have to make some adjustments, but they'll know how to do that rather easily.

SHBoss1673

I'm curious what your definition of a (ratio or whatever other form you prefer) of a high carb, low protein diet is.

I find these generalities without context confusing.

40/40/20 protein.carb/fat is what most recommend

WHO recommends that? No nationally accredited health organization I know recommends 40% protein.

Bro-science recommends that.

I am all for protein but there is really no need to go over 30-35% or roughly 1g/lb of lean body mass, NOT BODY WEIGHT.

Bro-science finally got their accreditation? Nice!