People judge - that's just "reality" - BULL****!

crisanderson27

Why is it so important to some of you to see obesity as a moral failing rather than a physiological failing?

We know for a fact some people eat to satiety and do not become overweight. We even know that some people who are experimentally overfed automatically and unconsciously expend more energy in thermogenesis and activity.

Obese people (obviously don't). A person isn't morally superior because their body responds to excess energy a different way nor are they morally superior because when they reach a certain level of food intake they feel like they don't want to eat anymore. Yet plenty of people have bodies which respond to overfeeding appropriately, that is their appetite shuts off and their expenditure goes up, unconsciously and naturally.

And not just years, not just decades, not just centuries but literally millenia of telling fat people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and just stop eating and start doing more has not worked for the vast majority of fat people. We are at a juncture in human history where we have the means to understand the biochemical mechanisms behind all of this and more and more we are learning about it, and it's by learning how we REALLY work that we're going to fix these problems.

But it seems like people are offended by that idea, they are offended by the idea that the fat ugly slobs they see around them, maybe the fat ugly slob they think they are or was, are that way for reasons beyond simply being bad people. And I just don't get it... maybe they need to hate the person they don't want to be in order to sustain the energy to force themselves to stay at a weight their body thinks (possibly wrongly) is way too small.

Actually, the person who put the moral spin on this was the original poster. She chose gluttony and sloth as her key words...everyone else just took that lead.

I was fat. I was lazy. I was complacent. I was someone who I'd never been before in my life. I didn't really 'over' eat (I mostly just ate the same way I did when I was healthy and active)...but what I did eat was PURE and simple crap.

Now that I am no longer lazy or complacent, I am no longer fat. My diet is certainly nothing to brag about for the last month or so...and eating clean for three months straight did help, though not as much as I'd have expected.

Leaves a person a lot to think about when compared with the original post.

suzieduh

agree

tross0924

Yeah but... 1/3rd of women at any given time are on a diet apparently...
..it's really not for lack of trying for some people.

Right. Which is why Atkins works great for a lot of people. It eliminates there insulin sensitivity and unlocks them from growth mode allowing them to lose weight. Which is fabulous, but then what. They stop paying attention again, stop doing something about it and they gain it all back, then they claim that they have a physiological problem that means they can never lose weight. That is total self delusional BS. No matter what physiological problem people have there is nothing that dooms them to a life of obesity. People may have problems that make it hard as heII but not impossible. And to me insulin sensitivity an excuse for either not trying or an excuse for failing.

Zolita

Im fat and I take responsibility for what I put into my body. Science didnt do me in, stuffing my face did.

I agree, I conned myself into believing that what I ate was right....I really had my eyes opened. Eating 12 oreos with coffee was the cause of gaining more than I could imagine

TK421NotAtPost

I read Taubes' book a few years ago. While I recognize his contribution to the science of dieting and weight loss, his position on insulin playing a larger role in body composition than calories is a load of C R A P.

Delve deeper into his research and you'll see that he cherry-picks his data and ignores the one thing that pretty much makes most of his research moot....and that is the overwhelming tendency for people on loosely controlled studies to underestimate calories consumed and overestimate calories burned.

Atlantique

Why is it so important to some of you to see obesity as a moral failing rather than a physiological failing?

We know for a fact some people eat to satiety and do not become overweight. We even know that some people who are experimentally overfed automatically and unconsciously expend more energy in thermogenesis and activity.

Obese people (obviously don't). A person isn't morally superior because their body responds to excess energy a different way nor are they morally superior because when they reach a certain level of food intake they feel like they don't want to eat anymore. Yet plenty of people have bodies which respond to overfeeding appropriately, that is their appetite shuts off and their expenditure goes up, unconsciously and naturally.

And not just years, not just decades, not just centuries but literally millenia of telling fat people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and just stop eating and start doing more has not worked for the vast majority of fat people. We are at a juncture in human history where we have the means to understand the biochemical mechanisms behind all of this and more and more we are learning about it, and it's by learning how we REALLY work that we're going to fix these problems.

But it seems like people are offended by that idea, they are offended by the idea that the fat ugly slobs they see around them, maybe the fat ugly slob they think they are or was, are that way for reasons beyond simply being bad people. And I just don't get it... maybe they need to hate the person they don't want to be in order to sustain the energy to force themselves to stay at a weight their body thinks (possibly wrongly) is way too small.

I'm not seeing people saying that there was some "moral failing" involved, other than the OP. Everyone else is simply admitting to overeating, making poor food choices, choosing not to exercise or all of the above. If you choose to interpret those as moral failings, that's your choice.

lbgano

I think what sucks is that a lot of people see an obese person and write them off completely. Don't even take time to get to know them and then base their opinion on that person's other qualities.

I have a very skinny friend who is openly judgmental about obese people. I told him "everyone has vices. just because yours don't manifest as fat on your body doesn't mean you are any better than a person whose vice shows up as extra weight." He smokes like a chimney and then has the temerity to go on and on about how being overweight is unhealthy.

I am sorry that you are being judged for being human and having human struggles. That nothing but sucks.

FearAnLoathing

EVERYONE gets judged! Its not exclusive to just overweight people.

sunyg

When a parent allows their overweight child to eat a large sized big mac meal with a soda or shake at McDonalds, that is not just science. That child is fat because the parent allows them to eat large amounts of unhealthy foods and I can almost guarantee that the child will go home and play video games or watch TV rather than go outside. I see it every single day and it makes me sad that people teach their kids such horrible habits.

I agree with this completely. I've seen it first hand. I wouldn't say that my family has always eaten super healthy but I've always cooked at home way more than we go out. This is how my girls grew up. They eat veggies and fruit and drink milk over soda. Soda, kool-aid, chips, etc. are a "treat" for them. They still get those things but they aren't allowed to sit on the couch all day eating junk.

When their father and I separated he didn't really know how to cook much and isn't big on a lot of veggies. So he did the best he could and made the girls drink V-8 Splash. Not the best thing but better than nothing.

He remarried last year to a woman with 2 kids. She doesn't like to cook and wants to eat out all of the time. The girls have had huge issues with this. They aren't use to it. She allows her 10 year old son to eat 2 Big Macs 2 large fries and a large coke. She thinks they are healthy though because they do Karate once a week. How does that work? They are both very over weight and rarely play. It's very sad.

I have joint custody so they get them every other week. It's been a huge struggle for my girls because if they don't want to eat garbage they are told they aren't eating. They eat a lot when they are here. I've tried talking to my Ex over this but the friendship we had for 8 years dissolved the minute he got re-married. So the girls and I have discussed how to make the best choices they can when they are with their Dad. It's a very hard situation.

I hate to say it because this will sound horrible and judgmental but I am terrified that my girls will eventually give in and think it's ok to eat like that every day and will end up looking like their step siblings.

r3451

<---- was fat.........then did something about it.

WIN. In the end, no matter the circumstance, it is that simple.

bjshooter

Obviously there are people that have certain medical problems that make them gain weight, mainly though its just being lazy and eating too much of the wrong thing. I have never heard of these books you have been reading, but I think they send out the wrong message and make excuses. The only way to lose weight is to face up to why you are bigger in the first place and address those problems. Usually, there is only yourself to blame. I have been up and down depending on how active my jobs have been and pregnancy, I also take an anti depressent that makes you gain, just means you have to be more aware and fight harder.

As someone else metioned 1/3 of women are on a diet at any one time, I bet most of these are fad diets that will last a few weeks, when results slow, people give up. A complete change of lifestyle is needed, even little things count if you can keep them up forever, an extra walk or no sugar in your coffee, would work better over time than a crazy crash effort. I was lazy, the more exercise I do the more I feel I want to do, its drug like.

NikkisNewStart

I guess all ofthe people lining up in the drive thru line are just in "growth mode." :grumble:

kjergens

I agree with your post to a certain degree. I think it's not completely about calories in/out. There are definitely other factors involved...especially for people with metabolism issues and insulin issues. The kind of calories we throw into our bodies makes a huge difference. Especially in how we feel. High glycemic carbs will drag you down and convert very easily into fat! There's also hormonal issues that come into play. For premenopausal women, it's almost an uphill battle. Hormones are doing what they are supposed to do, so we have to change our eating habits drastically just to gain any ground in the weight loss battle.

bjshooter

I guess all ofthe people lining up in the drive thru line are just in "growth mode." :grumble:

haha exactly, if these people are forced to eat because of growth mode, why are they not eating a whole fruit bowl. Why does it have to be a big mac?

stormieweather

I got fat because I was much less active and still ate the same. I ate foods that I liked...ice cream, aged cheddar cheese, french fries...with no thought to how it would affect me. I ate next to nothing for a few years and still didn't lose, because eventually, hunger won (and I overate and retained as fat all the extra calories).

I take full responsibility for my weight issue. I was athletic and active and slim for years....and because I slowed down and didn't pay attention, I gained weight. So, I started paying attention to what I'm eating and being active and lo and behold...I am losing weight. I could blame lots of things...working two jobs, change in hobbies, insulin issues (pre-diabetic), finances, but honestly...it's still my responsibility to take care of myself and my health.

ascoope

This is such an interesting thread!
That statistic about 1/3 of woman being on a diet at all times is from a list of diet related statistics that have been passed around the internet for years now. There is no source/study attributed to it.
But I completely agree with what a few other people mentioned, if it's true, it's because overweight people (and those at a normal weight) are constantly starting a diet. They restrict their calories way too low on some kind of semi-starvation diet and drop 20 pounds rapidly over the next couple week. Then their bodies, malnourished and metabolism sluggish, turn on the raging hunger and they start eating again, "breaking" the diet. All the fat rolls back on, and then they're back at the beginning... having gained the weight back and then some.
It's a very all or nothing mentality that I also struggle with. If I slip up and have a couple bad days I don't say "eff it" anymore and start binge eating. I look at what I've been doing, if I'm eating/exercising enough, and make some adjustments.
For me personally, although I'm sure it's true for some people, the idea that my weight is something I'm "pre-set" to stay at is very depressing. It stands to reason that if I got myself into this state, I can get myself right back out.

kjergens

"I think your paragraph I quoted above is incorrect. I think we get fat because of overeating and physical inactivity. We train our bodies to be in the growth mode you refer to above."

This does not explain at the height of my premenopausal years how when I was correctly and diligently recording my weight, keeping it within 1200-1400 calories and exercising twice a day for 40 minutes each exercise period, how I still could not lose weight. At certain periods of our lives, hormones play a huge factor in our weight loss/gain. If you add birth control to that, you will also struggle. It is the hormones jobs to balance out low hormones/etc, and to do so, it will create extra fat cells if it has to. And it will horde fat cells if it has to. Therefore, the only real way to lose weight, is to keep your glycemic levels lower and cut out all the high glycemic and fat foods that you can. Now, some people aren't at this stage...if you are in your 20's and 30's and you are not on birth control ...you can do strict calorie in and out/and exercise the hell out of your body and you will lose weight. You can sit there and tell the rest of us, I was fat, I did something about it. But, if you have thyroid issues, diabetes, or you are pre diabetic or you or on birth control...then you will struggle to lose weight. And the only thing I have found that even remotely works is watching your glycemic intake, cutting out as much refined sugar as you can, cutting out as much white flour as you can,and eating more fruits/veggies, and protein, low carb pasta and rice. Couple that with exercise and you will see the scale move. It may not move as fast as someone in their 20's or someone without the hormonal struggles, but it will move.

christine24t

Im fat and I take responsibility for what I put into my body. Science didnt do me in, stuffing my face did.

I agree, I conned myself into believing that what I ate was right....I really had my eyes opened. Eating 12 oreos with coffee was the cause of gaining more than I could imagine

I'm with you on that one. I take full responsibility for my obesity, but now I also take full responsibility for losing 35 pounds!! I used to overeat a lot, eat out all the time and not care what I was eating.

In a select few people, there are hormone issues at play. But for the majority of people, it is overeating and not exercising. That is why you always hear people complaining, because they want to eat a lot and not exercise.

bjshooter

"I think your paragraph I quoted above is incorrect. I think we get fat because of overeating and physical inactivity. We train our bodies to be in the growth mode you refer to above."

This does not explain at the height of my premenopausal years how when I was correctly and diligently recording my weight, keeping it within 1200-1400 calories and exercising twice a day for 40 minutes each exercise period, how I still could not lose weight. At certain periods of our lives, hormones play a huge factor in our weight loss/gain. If you add birth control to that, you will also struggle. It is the hormones jobs to balance out low hormones/etc, and to do so, it will create extra fat cells if it has to. And it will horde fat cells if it has to. Therefore, the only real way to lose weight, is to keep your glycemic levels lower and cut out all the high glycemic and fat foods that you can. Now, some people aren't at this stage...if you are in your 20's and 30's and you are not on birth control ...you can do strict calorie in and out/and exercise the hell out of your body and you will lose weight. You can sit there and tell the rest of us, I was fat, I did something about it. But, if you have thyroid issues, diabetes, or you are pre diabetic or you or on birth control...then you will struggle to lose weight. And the only thing I have found that even remotely works is watching your glycemic intake, cutting out as much refined sugar as you can, cutting out as much white flour as you can,and eating more fruits/veggies, and protein, low carb pasta and rice. Couple that with exercise and you will see the scale move. It may not move as fast as someone in their 20's or someone without the hormonal struggles, but it will move.

Birth control doesnt always make it hard. I have never took it for fear of getting fat (hence two children). i now worry about getting pregnant more (mainly because I am ill and pregnancy would not agree). I started during a 'stuck weight' period so figured couldnt get worse. I have taken it for three month and lost 10lb. WAY more than I have been able to lose in ages. I guess everyone is different.

sequoialea

Well agree or don't agree, can you tell me how fat accumulates in the body? Other than the simplistic answer of calories in/calories out? Can you offer another hypothesis?

As far as trying, I am and I'm losing! I just refuse to take things at face value. I want to know why, how, what. Anyway, like I said, this site is set up with the calories in/calories out idea as its basis so I didn't expect a whole lot of support for my ideas.

If you are interested in at least understanding where I am coming from, here are a couple of links:

http://youtu.be/M6vpFV6Wkl4

http://www.garytaubes.com/blog/

And sorry for being judgmental of those who are judgmental - that's hypocritical of me.

NikkisNewStart

We can spend time on the "why" or we can spend time on the "what now."

I decided to focus my energy on doing something about it instead of making excuses for myself... such as 3 knee surgeries, 5 kids, Grad school, hypothyroidism, PCOS, infertility hormone treatments... there is no excuse for food abuse. Period.

sequoialea

I enjoyed reading your post, but I don't agree with it.

Ditto.

I'm going to go with this too.

Agreed. ..I will add that one of the things they say on the Biggest Loser is that within the first month the contestants are usually off most if not all of their medications of things that were brough on from being overweight. . so just a thought.

But I can assure you that they are not eating a high-carb diet and the first thing they cut out is the sugar in their diet. Even by reducing calories and eating a low-fat diet we will restrict carbs in some way - the percentage of all sources of calories is reduced. This alone could account for the reduction of weight and the improvement of health. Carbohydrates are fatting. If you reduce your carbohydrates, you reduce your size. Source - http://www.garytaubes.com/2010/12/calories-fat-or-carbohydrates/

12by311

even though I know it might mean I gain back even more when I get old and tired of policing every single morsel

This stuck out to me.

I know you've probably heard this lots, but it really is a "lifestyle change". After I lost the weight I gained, I maintained for a long time without counting calories or anything like that. I knew how to eat healthy and kept exercising. I enjoy exercising. Now, I'm trying to lose some vanity weight.

I feel like once you get to the point where you change the foods you are eating and do it without really thinking about it, it won't be "policing" every morsel.

As far as the original topic, I will echo what others are saying. Everyone gets judged. Just the other day, someone posted a "rant" on here about how they were so sick and tired of skinny people counting calories on here and suggested they go eat a cheeseburger or something.

One thing I'll say to the OP, I've truly never known a person becoming obese from overeating vegetables, fruits, and lean proteins. Whether or not your body is predisposed to be larger or not, you (general) may not be tiny from eating those things, but you will not become 300 lbs from it.

NikkisNewStart

Gary Taubes got what he was after... your $ for buying his book... just like Nutrisystem, Jenny Craig, Slim Fast, Dexatrim, and all of the other multi-million dollar companies that spend their time trying to make people feel all warm and fuzzy about why they are fat as they eat 2 large pizzas and their diet coke.

Keep doing what you are doing and you'll be the one that has to live with your results or lack thereof. Best wishes.

sequoialea

We can spend time on the "why" or we can spend time on the "what now."

I decided to focus my energy on doing something about it instead of making excuses for myself... such as 3 knee surgeries, 5 kids, Grad school, hypothyroidism, PCOS, infertility hormone treatments... there is no excuse for food abuse. Period.

I do not abuse food. And yes, if you don't understand the "why" then how can you truly understand how to correct the problem? When I was a teenager, the official wisdom about how to lose weight was to eat a high-carb (whole grain), low-fat diet and to exercise. I did this and actually GAINED weight. I was diligent but I was not successful. That is because I did not understand the why. So please spare me the "you're too lazy" argument.

graysmom2005

<---- was fat.........then did something about it.

Yep. I'm sorry but this feels like an excuse. I was fat because I ate horrible food and didn't exercise. Once I stopped this...I wasn't fat anymore. *shrug*

sequoialea

Gary Taubes got what he was after... your $ for buying his book... just like Nutrisystem, Jenny Craig, Slim Fast, Dexatrim, and all of the other multi-million dollar companies that spend their time trying to make people feel all warm and fuzzy about why they are fat as they eat 2 large pizzas and their diet coke.

Keep doing what you are doing and you'll be the one that has to live with your results or lack thereof. Best wishes.

I didn't buy his book. I used something called the public library. Plus, you can get what he is saying in the FREE videos on YouTube and his blog. So, there you go.

kjergens

Birth control doesnt always make it hard. I have never took it for fear of getting fat (hence two children). i now worry about getting pregnant more (mainly because I am ill and pregnancy would not agree). I started during a 'stuck weight' period so figured couldnt get worse. I have taken it for three month and lost 10lb. WAY more than I have been able to lose in ages. I guess everyone is different.
[/quote]

I think your last statement is probably the biggest factor in weight loss that most people forget. Everyone's body is different. We all come to the table with differing hormone levels, different metabolism, etc. Our bodies respond to fat in the diet differently, process sugars differently. Some people eat like freakin machines and don't gain a pound. It just irritates me when people want to say, just lower your caloric intake...it's that simple. No, it's not. Not for everyone. You have to figure out what works best for your body type and metabolism, for your stage in life, and go from there. That, to me, is the biggest battle in the weight loss game....figuring out what your body does best and how to work with it.

sequoialea

Why is it so important to some of you to see obesity as a moral failing rather than a physiological failing?

We know for a fact some people eat to satiety and do not become overweight. We even know that some people who are experimentally overfed automatically and unconsciously expend more energy in thermogenesis and activity.

Obese people (obviously don't). A person isn't morally superior because their body responds to excess energy a different way nor are they morally superior because when they reach a certain level of food intake they feel like they don't want to eat anymore. Yet plenty of people have bodies which respond to overfeeding appropriately, that is their appetite shuts off and their expenditure goes up, unconsciously and naturally.

And not just years, not just decades, not just centuries but literally millenia of telling fat people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and just stop eating and start doing more has not worked for the vast majority of fat people. We are at a juncture in human history where we have the means to understand the biochemical mechanisms behind all of this and more and more we are learning about it, and it's by learning how we REALLY work that we're going to fix these problems.

But it seems like people are offended by that idea, they are offended by the idea that the fat ugly slobs they see around them, maybe the fat ugly slob they think they are or was, are that way for reasons beyond simply being bad people. And I just don't get it... maybe they need to hate the person they don't want to be in order to sustain the energy to force themselves to stay at a weight their body thinks (possibly wrongly) is way too small.

Thank you for your comments. That's what I am trying to say but I think you said it much better.

sequoialea

And what did you do? Did you in any way cut the amount of carbohydrates and/or sugars from your diet? If so, then I am sure that helped. And I am working on this - I am losing weight - so if that is the criticism of me, then it is unfounded.