People judge - that's just "reality" - BULL****!

minadeathclutch

This is the last post I will make here and in the forums in general. Fine, you don't agree with me. Fine, what works for me may not work for you and visa versa. But calling me everything but lazy is too far. You don't know me. You don't know my lifestyle. When I referred to my diet, I was talking about my diet as a child/teenager, not now! Regardless of what I say, you will take my criticisms as excuses. So, I'll go my way and you go yours.

whoa hissy fit?

what everyone is trying to say is WE HAVE ALL BEEN THERE. SOME OF US ARE STILL THERE. YET WE ARE ALL WORKING DAMN ****ING HARD to FIX this totally fixable issue!

we can choose to sit on our *kitten* all day and eat whatever we can find.

or we can choose to be active, eat healthy, and take care of ourselves.

both of those choices will have different results and consequences. that's all there is to it. no science. no crisis or epidemic nah. just common sense.

i dont believe anyone called YOU lazy.. i think people are speaking in general on here and the truth sucks. but you know what, you are on this website, which means you are trying and you're ready to make a change . good for you.

Roszepoo

If gluttony and sloth does not make us fat, how come good eating and exercise makes us lose fat? I see no logic in your post. I am overweight because I ate too much and did not exercise. My food was "good" food, but I ate more than I needed considering I did not exercise.
Hormones play a part. Hormones can often be regulated by good eating and exercise.
Denial is not reality.

ladyhawk00

As this is a heated topic, just wanted to remind everyone to keep it civil (it has been so far, but it's walking the line sometimes) - we encourage debate and discussion, as long as it remains respectful:

4) Do not attack/slam/insult other users. The forums are here so that members can help support one another. Attacks or insults against each other takes away from the supportive atmosphere and will not be tolerated. You can discuss the message or topic, but not the messenger - NO EXCEPTIONS. If you are attacked by another user, and you reciprocate, YOU will also be subject to the same consequences. Defending yourself, defending a friend, etc. are NOT excuses. Violations of this rule are taken very seriously and may result in being banned without warning! If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

Thanks for your cooperation and good debate.

Ladyhawk00
MyFitnessPal Forum Moderator

kdouglas11

Perception is reality. Yes some people are genetically predisposed to be fat... however, they can do something about it! IT's called eating healthy and losing weight. I don't know what you read, but basic science says you put energy into your body, you use energy, if you put more energy in, you have a surplus, if you use more, you have a deficit... that's how you gain or lose weight....


That simple. You may be angry that people say it should be easy to lose weight, (we all know how to do it) but the fact is it's not easy... it takes discipline.

Schwiggity

This is the last post I will make here and in the forums in general. Fine, you don't agree with me. Fine, what works for me may not work for you and visa versa. But calling me everything but lazy is too far. You don't know me. You don't know my lifestyle. When I referred to my diet, I was talking about my diet as a child/teenager, not now! Regardless of what I say, you will take my criticisms as excuses. So, I'll go my way and you go yours.

...........WHAT?! Did you even look at your thread's title? Start out hostile, expect a hostile response.

hush7hush

Start out hostile, expect a hostile response.

Right there.

dottieb1974

so, i've been overweight my entire life. i was never taught how to eat properly. i was never told that i needed to be active. if i wanted to sit on my butt, it was ok. if i wanted to eat 4 hoho's in 6 minutes .. that was fine. ignorance was bliss for me.. and to be honest.. i ignored myself for YEARS. i knew i was overweight but i lived in denial.

i spent my entire life with nicknames like tubby and chunk. i'd giggle and laugh it off.. ignore it. whatever it took to get by. tramatic things happened in my life..and i ate that sadness and fear rather than dealing with it.

here's the reason why i say this. everyone is judged. everyone judges. there are no innocent victims when it comes to judging. when i've been out with friends, i do ask them if i'm as fat as some other person.. or i'll say stuff like..does my butt look like that?? we all have done it at one point or another.

it wasn't until i looked at myself in the mirror and really looked at myself that i realized that i needed to make a change. to be honest, i stared at myself long and hard because i was still in denial..there was NO WAY i could be that fat.. no way.

i'm not perfect, but i'm willing to change. one thing that this site has done for me was show me how easy it is to count cals and meet my weekly goals. one of my favorite parts of this site is the fact that it gives you a breakdown of the fat, sugar, sodium and carbs you take in on a daily basis. i've found that by staying at or below the #'s given, i consistantly lose weight. of course exercising also plays a key role. you have to find something you REALLY enjoy. if you love hiking, boxing, swimming or biking do it.. and do it vigorously. have fun, sweat and beat the crap out of your fat.

no more excuses. I'm fat because i chose to be fat. the choices i make, will either keep me fat or give me a better life. but it's my choice to change. not science or a book. it's me.

i do appreciate your post. there may be some truth about what you wrote/read. but in the end the only thing that matters is, what will you do about it.

get off your duff and do something .. or be happy in the skin your in.

the final bit i have to say is this: i hated those who judged me.. infact, i blamed them for keeping me 'fat'. the truth is.. no man controls my destiny except me. i am fat because of me. i am the only person who can make me 'not fat'. i control my destiny. the end.

susanswan

As a fat person myself, I have to say that I got that way from overeating and not exercising. I was an emotional eater. When I learned to deal with that is healthy ways, then I could begin my weight loss journey. I have no one or nothing to blame but myself and I am the only one who can fix it. Now, I watch my calorie, fat, carb and sodium intake and I exercise daily.

Me too. Although "something" drove me to want to consume massive amounts of sugar as in eating a jar of jam. Even sugar out of the sugar bowl if nothing else was available. I developed hypothyroidism at age 19 and got on medication for that. Maybe I have a slower metabolism, but stuffing my face night and day is what REALLy caused me to gain weight. Also never exercising. It was a vicious cycle for me.

On the verge of turning 50 (another time of life where you are predisposed to gain 10 pounds just because of menopause according to my gyn.) I decided to lose weight and lost 53 pounds. By sticking to it AND avoiding white flour and sugars of all types. I never felt in control of my eating until I got rid of white flour and sugar. I find today that if I do indulge it starts drawing me back to wanting to eat more of it. I don't believe the calories in/ calories out so much. IT might be true, but I feel quality of food has something to do with it as well.

People are people. We judge everything on a daily basis. Not to be mean, I think it is just human nature to always be evaluating. Although it is easy to find hurtful jerks anywhere!

lodro

I don't agree either. I gained weight because I like potato chips and pasta and I didn't do any physical activity. This caused my weight gain. I wasn't in any sort of growth mode. I agree that sometimes it's more than just a simple in/out calories per day but in general this is it. Genetics plays a part in which areas we have that are larger, or what kind of metabolism we have.

and to the person above who has an 8000 defecit in calories, you're not losing weight because you're not eating enough - not because you are having your period. By that theory, after your period is over, you should drop all that weight. Doesn't that sound weird?

AMEN. I used to be almost 200 lbs in college.. why? because I smoked weed, laid around all day, got drunk as ****, ate whatever i wanted. had the munchies all the time, ate everything in sight, watched movies in bed, slept, woke up got drunk, smoked weed, ate whatever i wanted.
I'm 151 now.. why? because I work out every day, I have a physically demanding job, I eat good, I stay away from junk. I'm active, and I eat healthy. SIMPLE.

I bet you reduced your glycemic load then. And that is exactly Taubes' point: that it's not primarily calories, but glycemic load that makes us overeat in the first place. And that is the whole point the OP is been making.

lodro

As a fat person myself, I have to say that I got that way from overeating and not exercising. I was an emotional eater. When I learned to deal with that is healthy ways, then I could begin my weight loss journey. I have no one or nothing to blame but myself and I am the only one who can fix it. Now, I watch my calorie, fat, carb and sodium intake and I exercise daily.

Me too. Although "something" drove me to want to consume massive amounts of sugar as in eating a jar of jam. Even sugar out of the sugar bowl if nothing else was available. I developed hypothyroidism at age 19 and got on medication for that. Maybe I have a slower metabolism, but stuffing my face night and day is what REALLy caused me to gain weight. Also never exercising. It was a vicious cycle for me.

On the verge of turning 50 (another time of life where you are predisposed to gain 10 pounds just because of menopause according to my gyn.) I decided to lose weight and lost 53 pounds. By sticking to it AND avoiding white flour and sugars of all types. I never felt in control of my eating until I got rid of white flour and sugar. I find today that if I do indulge it starts drawing me back to wanting to eat more of it. I don't believe the calories in/ calories out so much. IT might be true, but I feel quality of food has something to do with it as well.

People are people. We judge everything on a daily basis. Not to be mean, I think it is just human nature to always be evaluating. Although it is easy to find hurtful jerks anywhere!

You too have spectacularly reduced glycemic load in your eating pattern and are proving Taubes' point.

dayglo4

I'll try not to make it too long~
In truth, a lot of the reply post were rather rude, making fun of what the poster had to say and mocking her, not exactly constructive.
I think a lot of posters read too much into what she was saying and assumed things about her, she didn't say 'I'm fat and there's nothing I can do about it and I'm not going to try!'

To the OP, I understand where you are coming from, you've gathered some new information that is helping you to better understand why weight gain is such an issue for you and why it hasn't responded to the simple "eat less, do more!" motto everyone shouts at you. Many of us with tested hormonal imbalances and insulin issues have already had to learn this lesson after many years of trying.

It does suck to be judged by others who simply see someone overweight and assume that person stuffs their face and sits on their *kitten* all the time, but it's a reality you can't change overnight, all you can do is change how you think about it. How many times had I gone on a 'diet' with a friend and done the exact same thing only to watch them sweat the pounds off while I hover at the same weight. A lot of people who were overweight did overeat a lot of junkfood and sit around way too much, so they made a change to a healthier lifestyle and lost it and therefore you should too, but they don't consider the fact that what was a healthy diet and enough activity for them, isn't enough for some people. As people have said, everyone is different, and some people will just have to try harder. For example, there's been a time when I have kept my cals to a healthy 1400cal per day, eaten a healthy diet full of extra veggie servings and fruit, and woken up at 5:30am every morning to fit in a workout at the gym and I've lost and gained the same 2lbs over and over in the month. People think 'you must be eating more than you think, you must believe you're working out harder than you are, or you're not eating enough!'. For people that are very carb sensitive, a meal of a cup of brown rice covered in veg and chicken, with a side of fruit will still spike their insulin, but for others that is healthy.

Everyone works hard here to lose the weight, and some people really hate to hear that someone has to work harder than them to lose the same, or has to do things differently. Some really find the tough love approach works for them and like to put their 'fatselves' down to motivate them. They find it helpful to shout " I was a gluttonous fat pig and a lazy sloth and I only I can do something about it!!"

If you don't find that approach helpful, then that's ok...you are not pig...you are not lazy...and only you can do something about it!! which as I understand it, you are:) so congrats.

dayglo4

For anyone who might not know much about insulin resistance, a simple in-a-nut-shell explanation is: When you eat carbs, your body naturally releases insulin to move the energy into your cells, but your cells refuse to let it in, keeping you feeling tired like you haven't eaten. Your body will keep releasing insulin to a much higher level than the average person, and once that insulin spikes quite high, your body immediately gives up trying to move the energy into cells and instead quickly converts it to fat instead, which drops your blood sugar down quite low relatively fast. In response, your body releases hormones to make you feel quite hungry again because it still needs more energy and your blood sugar is low.

Many people are insulin resistant to different degrees. Some people have other hormone issues to deal with too. If you have wonky sex hormones/ stress hormones/ sleep hormones etc. they all can affect weight gain/loss greatly and usually if one is way outta whack, they all are to some extent so it can make things less 'simple'. They can counter the efforts that you are making and you may have to deal with them first before you can lose the way you want, in part by specifically changing your diet which you may already be doing. But we can all still succeed, we may have to do things a little differently, one step at a time, and wait a little longer to be accepted as healthy active people. Just don't worry about how others see you or judge your efforts, only you know how hard you work and that's all that matters. Be proud of every step you take and never surrender. Don't let your disadvantages become excuses to settle, which I think is what people are afraid of (and I don't think the OP is), there are millions of us in the same boat with you and it's a challenge for everyone no matter what.

editing my hundreds of typos:P

TK421NotAtPost

I bet you reduced your glycemic load then. And that is exactly Taubes' point: that it's not primarily calories, but glycemic load that makes us overeat in the first place. And that is the whole point the OP is been making.

Actually, that sounds like a contradiction. How can one say that it isn't the calories, but instead it is the high GL foods which cause overeating? Well, if a person is overeating, then it obviously IS the calorie level.

TK421NotAtPost

In response, your body releases hormones to make you feel quite hungry again because it still needs more energy and your blood sugar is low.

And therein lies the huge confound. High insulin secretion tends to make people eat more.

Studies of diabetics find that decreasing insulin secretion with drugs tends to cause a spontaneously lower food intake.

Taubes, in his highly misleading book, makes the assumption that obese people eat the same number of calories as lean people. How does he know this? Because he cherry-picks his data based on studies where people SELF-REPORTED their calorie intake.

Well, there have been several OTHER studies over the past few decades which show that obese people consistently under-report their food intake...sometimes by up to 50%. Furthermore, they tend over over estimate their activity levels. Why does Taubes ignore these studies? Oh yeah, because then the entire premise of his book wouldn't hold nearly as much water.

And I don't think it's a huge leap of faith to think that the majority of obese people are pretty insulin resistant and secret huge amounts of insulin in response to eating...thereby making the temptation to eat again shortly after their last meal very hard to resist.

BTW, protein also causes your body to release insulin.

lodro

I bet you reduced your glycemic load then. And that is exactly Taubes' point: that it's not primarily calories, but glycemic load that makes us overeat in the first place. And that is the whole point the OP is been making.

Actually, that sounds like a contradiction. How can one say that it isn't the calories, but instead it is the high GL foods which cause overeating? Well, if a person is overeating, then it obviously IS the calorie level.

that was not what i was hinting at: glycemic load is something else than glycemic index, because it is related to the quantity of carbohydrates you're taking in.

as an example: pineapple is a high GI food, but, provided you eat only a little piece of it in a day, the actual glycemic load you're causing is low.

If you reduce calories, carbohydrates, as an absolute number of grammes goes down too, and so you reduce the glycemic load on your body, which causes the effects Taubes describes.

There is a difference between eating 250 g of carbohydrate/day and 125 g.

If you reduce caloric intake to 1200 or even 1500 calories a day, down from between 2000 and 3000, as many people do who are on a weight loss regime and track through MFP, you will have cut your glycemic load in half, if you do not compensate by upping carbohydrates. That is why "light" products are never a good idea, because they replace fats by carbohydrates, and so counteract glycemic load reduction.

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/28/12/2939.full

lodro

In response, your body releases hormones to make you feel quite hungry again because it still needs more energy and your blood sugar is low.

And therein lies the huge confound. High insulin secretion tends to make people eat more.

Studies of diabetics find that decreasing insulin secretion with drugs tends to cause a spontaneously lower food intake.

Taubes, in his highly misleading book, makes the assumption that obese people eat the same number of calories as lean people. How does he know this? Because he cherry-picks his data based on studies where people SELF-REPORTED their calorie intake.

Well, there have been several OTHER studies over the past few decades which show that obese people consistently under-report their food intake...sometimes by up to 50%. Furthermore, they tend over over estimate their activity levels. Why does Taubes ignore these studies? Oh yeah, because then the entire premise of his book wouldn't hold nearly as much water.

And I don't think it's a huge leap of faith to think that the majority of obese people are pretty insulin resistant and secret huge amounts of insulin in response to eating...thereby making the temptation to eat again shortly after their last meal very hard to resist.

BTW, protein also causes your body to release insulin.

I totally agree with you there: thin people do eat (far) less than fat people.

dayglo4

Yes, there is no doubt that people with huge insulin spikes will tend to eat much more because it literally feels like they haven't eaten at all, but I think that was part of what the OP was saying. That she doesn't snack for snacking sake, or mindlessly stuff her face with oreos or necessarily make poor food choices(ie:what most would consider junk) or just give in because she has a hankering for pizza and no will. That's why for some it may take extra steps and effort to maintain a lower insulin level which makes eating less much easier. But even if they manage to eat less besides hunger they'll still convert too much into fat than they should be and their metabolism slows, plus their mental focus drops and they can experience debilitating fatigue. Fatter you get, worse the spikes get and more your body likes to store fat. The point isn't to stop insulin secretion, it's to keep it low and steady right, and shift your body out of that mode, and for some people with mild insulin resistance a general change in diet and activity is enough and for others it isn't.

I have never read Taubes book and can't comment on it, was just responding to what the OP posted and others responses. It would be ridiculous to make a general statement that obese people eat the same amount of calories as lean people, clearly that isn't the case most of the time, but I think it would be unfair to say that lean people eat less than obese people period too, that's too general. You could take two people of the same sex/weight/height/activing and feed them the same calories and they may respond differently. One might maintain while the other slowly gains or one may maintain while the other slowly loses. This can be for many different reasons but one of them can be their insulin response, or other hormones that indirectly affect the bodies fat burn. So they have to work more at changing that and put a lot more effort in, and it doesn't have to do with their lack thereof in comparison to others who may be slim.

I've notice that almost all the medical studies I've read rely on that trust factor when it comes to recording food consumed. I guess they can't lock people away for 6mths to monitor everything they eat, they instead rely on them to weigh foods and record everything even when the researchers are really thorough recording everything else. No doubt some people are gonna lie due to shame about their will, and shame at ruining the study even though they ruin it more by lying.

candistyx

But the thing is, some people when given ad libitum access to paletable foods (such as in our societies, UK, America, Germany etc etc) will eat more than they need, and other people won't, not because they're consciously controlling their intake all the time, but because they simply don't want to eat that much, feel bad when they do eat that much. Their homeostatic system is working and saying "that's enough".

And other peoples systems aren't. Wouldn't you LIKE a way of losing weight that fixed your homeostatic system so you felt BAD, not mentally or psychologically but physically when you tried to eat more than the amount you need? So that the whole process was not a constant struggle, so that you didn't need to be consciously monitoring yourself moment by moment because one single moment of weakness would be enough to throw you into some kind of monster binge.

When I started this process, eating less, I thought "heck, this is easy" and it was easy, I didn't feel hungry often, but as the weeks went on I felt hungrier and hungrier till I was hungry all the time. Was my body responding to the amount of food I was eating and saying it's not enough? I don't think so... I think my body was responding to the amount of fat I had and as the fat decreased and decreased it got more and more worried about the declining fat levels till it said "you are gonna eat more food right this second young lady!!!". Losing the weight I've lost so far was easy, convincing my body that having this much fat (and I am STILL obese) doesn't mean I should spend EVERY SINGLE WAKING MINUTE obsessing about food... a whole other thing.

Spending every single moment of my life obsessing about food is NOT how I want to live my life. If getting to have my mind to think about more important things meant being fat, I'd do it. I really would. Screw thinking about food... food is boring.

I want a cure, not an agonizing treatment that leaves me obsessed and drained. I want to just sit down at mealtimes, eat my food, and then get on with my damn life! I want my body to realize that it doesn't need all this fat. I am going to work on it, am I giving up, no... I am finding out what is tricking my body into thinking it needs to be this heavy, I am looking for ways to trick it back... I can TOTALLY understand if someone else doesn't want to work on getting slimmer.

Someone on this thread likened getting fat to committing a crime against your body... *that* is precisely the attitude that winds me up. Some people actually have better things to do than spend their time worrying about their diet. Some fat people right now are working on cures for cancer and aids (and even obesity, diabetes and heart disease) and that is consuming all their mental energy so they can't spend all their time worrying about resisting the food around them. Resisting that food is a full time job, why should they give up their already full time and much more important jobs to focus on resisting food which is AT BEST going to add maybe 10 years to their life IF they are at risk for the obesity related diseases, which they as an individual might even not be. And that goes for plenty of people not just cancer researchers. Being fat is NOT a crime. Being fat, when not to the extreme, is not even that dangerous. If someone has better things to do than worry about their diet (I wish I did... maybe I would if I wasn't obsessing so much about my diet) then... good on them. If they don't have the risk factors for diseases (elevated glucose, elevated LDL, elevated blood pressure) - which plenty of fat people don't, then what is the crime? Why should they bare the brunt of societies contempt, constantly, in the media, in day to day life, on forums?

Being fat is the new pedophilia it seems like sometimes. It won't be long until mothers with chubby children or who dare to cook their kids chips on a Saturday get bricks thrown through their windows and mobs outside their houses with signs demanding they have their children removed from them.

Ajontheguitar

I got FAT because I sat on my *kitten* all day and ate junk food.

I wasn't predisposed to do that.

I was lazy and liked sugar.

No It's because the high sugar/ carb diet you were on made you produce more insulin. Because you ate like *kitten*, that has nothing to do with it. Your body made you do it. You were your own prisoner and the way your body acts to all the horrible crap you put into it is to blame. I would ask you if you want a cookie but, they're all gone....

It was still my own CHOICE to shovel that greasy **** into my mouth.

The high sugar/carb diet that caused me to produce more insulin? Yeah, that was my OWN CHOICE.

My body didn't force me to eat those things.

I DID.


Edit: I wouldn't want a cookie. They taste like dirt. You can give them to the "victims" of obesity, I'm sure they'll appreciate them more.

I know I was being sarcastic.

Good.
And I'm hoping other people read my response and think "Wow, she's kind of a *****, but she's totally right!!"

Uh, it's easy to say that when you WERE just being lazy. I have a girlfriend who's actually quite thin, but hypoglycemic issues run in her family and she seriously does FIGHT her own body's messages to eat more sugar. It runs through her like electricity. I have to literally massage the muscles, give her more water/protein, and she still goes to sleep anxious and miserable. It's LEGIT, it's not bull. At age 20, talking about being overweight or into sugar in "hindsight" is a little hilarious, because your body was still good to you anyway. It exists, don't write it off because your own story involved laziness.

JennLifts

I enjoyed reading your post, but I don't agree with it.

I agree. And what a profound statement.