Why we need carbs.

hpsnickers1

Whole grain pasta is flour. Whole grain bread is flour. Whole grain bagels are flour. Whole Wheat and white bread differ on the GI scale by a few measly points.

Someone might think they have no issues with grains. Until you knock them out of your diet for a month or so you will never know. I didn't think I did. Then I quit them. I learned they were the cause of my bloat. They were the cause of all of my digestive woes. Doctors were never able to tell me that. In fact I kept being told to increase my whole grains because I wasn't eating enough.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/definitive-guide-grains/
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/grain-pain/
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/is-rice-unhealthy/

He also explains the Asian paradox.

Why spend all that money going to doctors when you can do your own experimenting? Finding food allergies is a very, very hard and expensive process if you rely on doctors. Going Primal was an experiment. I didn't expect anything from it. And it was my own research that led me there. You don't need to be sitting in a classroom to learn. You don't need a degree to understand something.

martinah4

Personally, I don't believe anyone that says that they don't eat carbs or that they are not good for them. I can only assume that they mean grains and not carbs, since carbs are found in pretty much every food.

The thing that does bother me a bit is people telling others that whole grains are bad for them. And if you read enough of the thread it almost always turns out to be someone with a disease - diabetes, celiac disease, insulin resistance, gluten allergy, etc. And I wonder why are they saying something is bad for everyone when they must know it's bad for them because of the disease? Misery loves company??

There are some people on this site that are clueless about nutrition and giving them information about disease control as if it is good information for those without the disease is irresponsible and kind of mean.

Most people are eating low carb, not "no carb." I'm not sure where you're getting that. And by low carb, we mean low carb, not no grains. Most low carbers limit or avoid sugar, starchy veggies, and some fruits, in addition to grains (and flour). Some limit beans as well - depending on the person.

That still leaves plenty of room for healthy, real food: meat, fish, eggs, veggies, nuts, seeds, and some dairy.

Just because you don't like hearing that grains are bad for you doesn't make it true. I wish that pasta, bagels, and bread was good for us too, but there is plenty of scientific research that says that those foods wreak havoc on your insulin levels, whether you're diabetic or not. I've not diabetic, I don't have celiac, and there's no gluten allergy that I know of. But I have lost 60 lbs. by going low carb, and my bloodwork is excellent (and much improved from my low fat, high carb days).

I have a master's in molecular biology, and have read a LOT of books, articles, and scientific studies about nutrition. I'm no expert, but I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of what goes on internally, on a cellular and molecular level especially. Again - just because you don't "feel" like the information is good, doesn't mean that you're right! Read the journals and studies. Do your own research.

There's no way of eating that's going to fit every person out there. Some people (raising hand!) are very sensitive to carbs. Some people aren't. I do best on a low carb, whole foods diet. When I eat low fat / high carb, I am constantly hungry and want to binge on my low fat puddings, cereal, cookies, and jello. With low carb, those things will go bad in the fridge or pantry - I'm just not interested. Birthday and holiday parties are a breeze - a bite of cake is more than enough. My energy levels are through the roof. I don't believe moderation is the key at all, not for me at least.

You quote me as if you are raising an argument, but then near the end say pretty much the same thing I said. that everyone is different and you need to find what works for you body.

Except for this remark
"I wish that pasta, bagels, and bread was good for us too, but there is plenty of scientific research that says that those foods wreak havoc on your insulin levels, whether you're diabetic or not."
which is not true. If you mean non-whole grain pasta, bagels and bread, then yeah, there is plenty of evidence that is bad. But if you mean whole grain pasta, bagels and bread, then no, there is no evidence that this is bad for everyone.

I'm not sure how the reference to your degree fit into the subject, but kudos on that anyway.

@bcattoes: I'm not picking a fight, but could you please let me know where you stand on the low-carb thing? I've seen your comments on a number of post regarding low-carb and Atkins dieting, and I can't get a firm grasp on what you believe. It seems like you go back and forth, maybe you're trying to decide if low-carbing is the way to go, and you need the low-carbers to play devil's advocate? If you have an idea that you would like to try low-carbing as a diet, I would suggest you read up on it, watch some studies and show on YouTube on the topic--there's plenty, people post links all the time. Thanks!

taem

I try no longer to get involved with a low-carb, low-fat argument in the forums. Saying that, I ask that everyone listen to the podcast interview by Dr. John McDougall (low-fat) with Dr. Robert Atkin (low carb) because people who get involved cannot seem to open their mind to other possibilities. That's fine, but then there is no sense talking to myself, so I find the conversation useless. However, I do see some people on this thread that are open to listen to "the other side."

http://www.drmcdougall.com/mcdougallcast/p.php?file=2007-05-03_01_track_1.mp3

Atkins and McDougall both agree that sugar and refined carbs (processed, box food) is very bad for overweight or people with chronic disease. He does not bash complex carbs and in his original book, writes that people should eat complex carbs.

It is interesting that after Atkins, comes Lustig and Taubes who spout the same message about sugar.

martinah4

I try no longer to get involved with a low-carb, low-fat argument in the forums. Saying that, I ask that everyone listen to the podcast interview by Dr. John McDougall (low-fat) with Dr. Robert Atkin (low carb) because people who get involved cannot seem to open their mind to other possibilities. That's fine, but then there is no sense talking to myself, so I find the conversation useless. However, I do see some people on this thread that are open to listen to "the other side."

http://www.drmcdougall.com/mcdougallcast/p.php?file=2007-05-03_01_track_1.mp3

Atkins and McDougall both agree that sugar and refined carbs (processed, box food) is very bad for overweight or people with chronic disease. He does not bash complex carbs and in his original book, writes that people should eat complex carbs.

It is interesting that after Atkins, comes Lustig and Taubes who spout the same message about sugar.

I'll check it out! Thanks!

anewrac

I've just downloaded Gary Taubes' book on to my kindle and can't wait to read! I am still really confused as to which plan to follow. I really want to try a low carb approach, in fact I am trying, but am finding it difficult to "lose" the foods that I thought were healthy ie low fat/low cal.....do you know what I mean?! I suffer with hayfever, very bad sinus pain, depression - it seems that going a low carb way would help me.

anewrac

In saying that, I've just enjoyed 3 eggs scrambled with a little butter!!

Do you know what I mean though? I look at carb foods in the fridge and cupboard and think "Oh, I'll miss you so much!" Is that normal to start with?

martinah4

In saying that, I've just enjoyed 3 eggs scrambled with a little butter!!

Do you know what I mean though? I look at carb foods in the fridge and cupboard and think "Oh, I'll miss you so much!" Is that normal to start with?

I can only speak for the Atkins plan. You have to go cold-turkey on your refined, processed carbs. It's called Induction, and it last 2 weeks. There is an approved list of carbs from veggies (and it's not a small list of foods)! It's not all meat and cheese, you have to eat your veggies and goods fats. You can do this!

**And, yes, it's normal to have cravings for the first couple of days. But it goes away!

anewrac

In saying that, I've just enjoyed 3 eggs scrambled with a little butter!!

Do you know what I mean though? I look at carb foods in the fridge and cupboard and think "Oh, I'll miss you so much!" Is that normal to start with?

I can only speak for the Atkins plan. You have to go cold-turkey on your refined, processed carbs. It's called Induction, and it last 2 weeks. There is an approved list of carbs from veggies (and it's not a small list of foods)! It's not all meat and cheese, you have to eat your veggies and goods fats. You can do this!

**And, yes, it's normal to have cravings for the first couple of days. But it goes away!

Thanks I know whatever plan you follow you have to give something up!! I've given booze up for goodness sake!!!! and have found that easy, so hopefully the carbs will be easy too!

GiGi76

Personally, I don't believe anyone that says that they don't eat carbs or that they are not good for them. I can only assume that they mean grains and not carbs, since carbs are found in pretty much every food.

The thing that does bother me a bit is people telling others that whole grains are bad for them. And if you read enough of the thread it almost always turns out to be someone with a disease - diabetes, celiac disease, insulin resistance, gluten allergy, etc. And I wonder why are they saying something is bad for everyone when they must know it's bad for them because of the disease? Misery loves company??

There are some people on this site that are clueless about nutrition and giving them information about disease control as if it is good information for those without the disease is irresponsible and kind of mean.

Most people are eating low carb, not "no carb." I'm not sure where you're getting that. And by low carb, we mean low carb, not no grains. Most low carbers limit or avoid sugar, starchy veggies, and some fruits, in addition to grains (and flour). Some limit beans as well - depending on the person.

That still leaves plenty of room for healthy, real food: meat, fish, eggs, veggies, nuts, seeds, and some dairy.

Just because you don't like hearing that grains are bad for you doesn't make it true. I wish that pasta, bagels, and bread was good for us too, but there is plenty of scientific research that says that those foods wreak havoc on your insulin levels, whether you're diabetic or not. I've not diabetic, I don't have celiac, and there's no gluten allergy that I know of. But I have lost 60 lbs. by going low carb, and my bloodwork is excellent (and much improved from my low fat, high carb days).

I have a master's in molecular biology, and have read a LOT of books, articles, and scientific studies about nutrition. I'm no expert, but I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of what goes on internally, on a cellular and molecular level especially. Again - just because you don't "feel" like the information is good, doesn't mean that you're right! Read the journals and studies. Do your own research.

There's no way of eating that's going to fit every person out there. Some people (raising hand!) are very sensitive to carbs. Some people aren't. I do best on a low carb, whole foods diet. When I eat low fat / high carb, I am constantly hungry and want to binge on my low fat puddings, cereal, cookies, and jello. With low carb, those things will go bad in the fridge or pantry - I'm just not interested. Birthday and holiday parties are a breeze - a bite of cake is more than enough. My energy levels are through the roof. I don't believe moderation is the key at all, not for me at least.

I completely agree here with labgirl3!!! ;-)

bcattoes

You quote me as if you are raising an argument, but then near the end say pretty much the same thing I said. that everyone is different and you need to find what works for you body.

I guess I missed the part of your post that implied that a low carb diet could be a good choice for some. Instead, you insinuated that people on low carb diets were liars and/or ignorant. You also posted a number of comments that suggested you really had no clue what a low carb diet entails. Like this one:

That's sad. There aren't many foods that don't have carbs. What do you eat? Or do you just have to eat them and suffer?

And also:

JUST bacon would be pretty sad to me. I suppose you could take supplements to get nutrients but still, that would be a pretty boring diet. And, since it does have some carbs if you actually ate enough bacon to be full you might still have problems if your body didn't like carbs.

I'm not sure how the reference to your degree fit into the subject, but kudos on that anyway.

You implied there were people who were clueless about nutrition, giving out bad advice. I was pointing out that while I wasn't an expert, I'm not exactly clueless either, and I've done years of research. I wasn't asking for kudos on my degree - but thanks anyway!

I said I didn't believe anyone that said they eat no carbs. I never said anything about low carb eaters being stupid or ignorant. If you read through all the pages of this thread I've said more than once Adkins and other low carb diets are healthy if followed correctly. They are just not for me. I rarely insuate. If I want to say something I just say it. I do think being about to eat no carbs would be sad, and probably impossible, and that eating nothing but bacon would be sad (and extremely unhealthy).

bcattoes

@bcattoes: I'm not picking a fight, but could you please let me know where you stand on the low-carb thing? I've seen your comments on a number of post regarding low-carb and Atkins dieting, and I can't get a firm grasp on what you believe. It seems like you go back and forth, maybe you're trying to decide if low-carbing is the way to go, and you need the low-carbers to play devil's advocate? If you have an idea that you would like to try low-carbing as a diet, I would suggest you read up on it, watch some studies and show on YouTube on the topic--there's plenty, people post links all the time. Thanks!

I know that whole grains are not bad for everyone. I know I don't have to cut them out to know they are not bad. There is research showing the value of whole grains, and then there is the fact that I eat them and have no problems. Healthy check up, no bloating, high glucose, or other problems. I like them and they like me.

I also know that eating a low carb diet can be healthy when it included proper nutrition (said that numerous times). I know that a lot of people have trouble with grains, especially wheat. For them a low carb diet might make sense. But NOT everyone has these problems or ever will.

lockef

I do think being about to eat no carbs would be sad, and probably impossible, and that eating nothing but bacon would be sad (and extremely unhealthy).

People on low carb diets eat more than just bacon. In fact, they eat just a lot of the "healthy" stuff most other people eat like fish, lean meats, chicken, and a lot of veggies. I don't understand why some people imagine low carbers gorging on piles of bacon and cheese while washing it down with cups of butter and bacon fat.

I love bacon, and I eat it whenever I can because it tastes so good, but that's usually on the weekends.

bcattoes

I do think being about to eat no carbs would be sad, and probably impossible, and that eating nothing but bacon would be sad (and extremely unhealthy).

People on low carb diets eat more than just bacon. In fact, they eat just a lot of the "healthy" stuff most other people eat like fish, lean meats, chicken, and a lot of veggies. I don't understand why some people imagine low carbers gorging on piles of bacon and cheese while washing it down with cups of butter and bacon fat.

I love bacon, and I eat it whenever I can because it tastes so good, but that's usually on the weekends.

GEEZ!! I don't believe low carbers eat nothing but bacon. You'd have to read back through the thread to see where that came from. It was flip response to a flip response to a silly post. But it would be sad nonetheless.

Emma1903

just read the primal blueprint then you will understand what grains do to your body. all carbs are not bad, but all grain are. you can quite easily and happily get all the carbs you need from vegetables. you will probably find that most people eating primally have a more varied and healthy diet than those who eat grains. because primal eaters have an abundance of vegetables in there diet its not just meat and eggs. research the facts, and experiment with it yourself before criticising it. once you have gone primal for a month then say your opinion.

bcattoes

just read the primal blueprint then you will understand what grains do to your body. all carbs are not bad, but all grain are. you can quite easily and happily get all the carbs you need from vegetables. you will probably find that most people eating primally have a more varied and healthy diet than those who eat grains. because primal eaters have an abundance of vegetables in there diet its not just meat and eggs. research the facts, and experiment with it yourself before criticising it. once you have gone primal for a month then say your opinion.

I'm not sure who you are talking to, but I have no interest in primal nor do I get my nutrition information from someone selling a diet book. I read the research and work with health care data every day. I know what a a healthy diet is and I'm healthy. I've eaten this way for 20+ years and have had no health problems. I'm not on statins, no digestive problems, no problems of any kind. At my last checkup (in June) my doctor said I was "the picture of health". If I had a problem with grains I'd stop eating them. But research has shown that women who eat grains have better overall health than those that don't. I'm a woman. I'm healthy. Why in the world would I change what is working?? It's illogical.

But, then I suppose you weren't talking to me since I've never critised any diet, except the Twinkie diet. But that was another thread.

lockef

But research has shown that women who eat grains have better overall health than those that don't.

Link to study please. :glasses:

fteale

I have found that very low carbs actually make people depressed.

Definitely. Carbs help you regulate your hormones, so in general women who are low carbing get much worse PMS symptoms than they do when they eat a balanced diet.

fteale

But research has shown that women who eat grains have better overall health than those that don't.

Link to study please. :glasses:

"A study published in the September 8, 2003 edition of the Archives of Internal Medicine confirms that eating high fiber foods, such as oats, helps prevent heart disease. Almost 10,000 American adults participated in this study and were followed for 19 years, during which time 1,843 cases of coronary heart disease (CHD) and 3,762 cases of cardiovascular disease (CVD) were diagnosed. People eating the most fiber, 21 grams per day, had 12% less CHD and 11% less CVD compared to those eating the least, 5 grams daily. Those eating the most water-soluble dietary fiber fared even better with a 15% reduction in risk of CHD and a 10% risk reduction in CVD.(December 3, 2003)"

From this http://grindstonebakery.com/oats.htm

Which I am aware isn't an unbiased source, but a quick google gives you a plethora of similar study praecis.

bcattoes

But research has shown that women who eat grains have better overall health than those that don't.

Link to study please. :glasses:

If they link below is not good enough, try Googling the Iowa Women's Health Study (for one). You may have to pay to see the actual study and it will likely be very clinical and hard to understand if you are not a clinician.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/health-gains-from-whole-grains/

An intriguing report from the Iowa Women's Health Study linked whole-grain consumption with fewer deaths from noncardiac, noncancer causes. Compared with women who rarely or never ate whole-grain foods, those who had at least two or more servings a day were 30 percent less likely to have died from an inflammation-related condition over a 17-year period (7).

Cardiovascular Disease
Eating whole instead of refined grains substantially lowers total cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein (LDL, or bad) cholesterol, triglycerides, and insulin levels. Any of these changes would be expected to reduce the risk for cardiovascular disease. In the Harvard-based Nurses' Health Study, women who ate 2 to 3 servings of whole-grain products (mostly bread and breakfast cereals) each day were 30 percent less likely to have a heart attack or die from heart disease over a 10-year period than women who ate less than 1 serving per week (1). A recent meta-analysis of seven major studies showed that cardiovascular disease (heart attack, stroke, or the need for a procedure to bypass or open a clogged artery) was 21 percent less likely in people who ate 2.5 or more servings of whole-grain foods a day compared with those who ate less than 2 servings a week (2).

Type 2 Diabetes
In a study of more than 160,000 women whose health and dietary habits were followed for up to 18 years, those who averaged 2 to 3 servings of whole grains a day were 30 percent less likely to have developed type 2 diabetes than those who rarely ate whole grains (3). When the researchers combined these results with those of several other large studies, they found that eating an extra 2 servings of whole grains a day decreased the risk of type 2 diabetes by 21 percent.

lockef

Which I am aware isn't an unbiased source, but a quick google gives you a plethora of similar study praecis.

I don't want a quote, I want a link to the actual study/data.

The only studies I've heard of compare the consumption of whole grains vs. refined grains. I don't want someones interpetation of the study, I like to look at data.

The quote you posted says absolutely zero about what was tested.

Yes.. I AM a nerd.