New Rules of Lifting (for Women) Group - Part 2

kensky

I feel like I'm always warning against the Smith machine but am rarely articulate enough to back up the WHYs of Smith machine suck-age. To be succint, the Smith machine makes your body squat in a way that it wouldn't normally, naturally or optimally move.

I looked for a link to Alwyn himself chapping on the Smith machine but came up short. I do know that Alwyn and others recommend the Smith machine, set way down low, to assist with chins....way different than the squat.

I found Rippetoe's rant against Smith machines to be fairly convincing. If I couldn't find a gym with a decent squat/power rack set up I'd do all dumbbells all the time, before relying on Smith machines to keep me safe.

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program#My_gym_has_a_Smith_Machine._Can_I_use_that.3F

My gym has a Smith Machine. Can I use that?

No, no, no, no, no. NO!
Smith Machines are the devil.

For one thing they completely remove the stabilization aspect of the squat. But go ahead, get up to 300 on a smith machine and then try it with a barbell and see how long you can keep from falling on your *kitten*.

For another thing it restricts the natural range of motion. See each of us has our own biomechanics (the mechanisms that distinctly tie our individual bones and muscles together) and hence we have an individual movement pattern (range of motion) when doing the squat, or anything else for that matter. For example a guy with a long torso and stocky legs will not squat remotely close to how guy with a short torso and long legs does. The smith machine has only one range of motion for either of these individuals because the bar runs on rails in a fixed path (straight up and down or a slight diagonal). Every individual must conform to no matter their distinct movement pattern. This can be devastating to your skeletal system over time. Just like having your feet bound or slumping severely in your chair, as time passes the smith machine will turn you into a sideshow freak. And children will weep when they look upon you and mothers will shield their eyes from your abnormal freakishness. Your story will become a cautionary tale for newb weightlifter for years to come... "Don't use the smith machine or you'll end up just like John Spinalcase." Turn back now, it's not too late.

"Squatting" in a Smith machine is a oxymoron. A squat cannot be performed on a Smith machine, as should be obvious from all previous discussion. Sorry. There is a gigantic difference between a machine that makes the bar path vertical, and a squat that is excecuted correctly enough to have a vertical bar path. Muscle and skeleton should do the job of keeping the bar path vertical, not grease fittings and floor bolts.
– Mark Rippetoe

elizabethblake

Thanks Kensky, I guess that explains why I've never seen anyone doing squats on the Smith machine at my gym! And why I'll stick to the squat rack.

kensky

I wish we could do real hyperlinks (are they even called that anymore?) and italicize/bold quotes, etc. I don't want anybody thinking that the extraordinarily flippant tone of Rippetoe = my phrasing. :flowerforyou:

agthorn

I wish we could do real hyperlinks (are they even called that anymore?) and italicize/bold quotes, etc. I don't want anybody thinking that the extraordinarily flippant tone of Rippetoe = my phrasing. :flowerforyou:

I inherently understood it was a quote :-) And thanks - someone on another thread told me I should use the Smith Machine if the regular squat rack wasn't available. I'm glad I didn't listen.

AnaNotBanana

For anyone that has completed Stage 2. Do you drink your post workout protein shake after the weight lifting or after weight lifting & HIIT?

yanicka

I wish we could do real hyperlinks (are they even called that anymore?) and italicize/bold quotes, etc. I don't want anybody thinking that the extraordinarily flippant tone of Rippetoe = my phrasing. :flowerforyou:

I inherently understood it was a quote :-) And thanks - someone on another thread told me I should use the Smith Machine if the regular squat rack wasn't available. I'm glad I didn't listen.

I man!!! I have been using the smith machine since the beguining!!! Shoot I was so happy to lift 90 pounds.

In another news...I find myself getting hungrier. Did any of you upped their calories when putting on muscle mass? I can't belive that I am more hungry at 1500 calories then I was at 1200

baisleac

For anyone that has completed Stage 2. Do you drink your post workout protein shake after the weight lifting or after weight lifting & HIIT?

After both.

nz_deevaa

Hello! I'm only up to the 2nd chapter of the book, but I'd love to follow along with your progress on this thread.

ruststar

Thanks for the comments about the Smith machine - so glad I didn't try it yet! I did try the deadlifts with the olympic bar and 30 pounds worth of plates and all was well. I felt all powerful for using the "big boy" toys.

ruststar

Double post

elizabethblake

So, can anyone tell me the difference between the Static Lung, Rear Foot Elevated and the Bulgarian Split Squat? Other than using two dumbbells for the lunge, and one weight for the split squat, the instructions are identical! Is it that one is done with the back foot propped on a step and the other uses a bench?

ruststar

So, can anyone tell me the difference between the Static Lung, Rear Foot Elevated and the Bulgarian Split Squat? Other than using two dumbbells for the lunge, and one weight for the split squat, the instructions are identical! Is it that one is done with the back foot propped on a step and the other uses a bench?

With the two elevated ones the difference is the position of the foot. In the Bulgarian Split squat the laces of your shoe should face down, while the other has you on your toes.

bbygrl5

Okay everyone, I'm about halfway through phase 1 and I just started repeating a week's worth of workouts (my own choice) because I'm WIPED OUT!!!

I've been ambitious about increasing my weights, steadily, but heavily and I'm just feeling wiped! I don't know if I should keep going this route or not, but I'm finding it hard to do any sort of cardio on non-lift days.

I will say, and I know I should consult a doctor for a professional opinion on this, but I've been taking a flexeril at night on lift days, otherwise, I wake up extremely stiff. Do you think this could be somehow affecting my strength?

I'm just so tired. I really don't want to reduce the weights. Do you think I need to though?

AnaNotBanana

So, can anyone tell me the difference between the Static Lung, Rear Foot Elevated and the Bulgarian Split Squat? Other than using two dumbbells for the lunge, and one weight for the split squat, the instructions are identical! Is it that one is done with the back foot propped on a step and the other uses a bench?

With the two elevated ones the difference is the position of the foot. In the Bulgarian Split squat the laces of your shoe should face down, while the other has you on your toes.

The difference is definitely in the way your rear foot is placed. Also I think the difference is in the height of your rear foot, like you mentioned. I attempted the Bulgarian Split Squat with my foot on the same step that I used for Static Lunge and it was painful. I had to elevated my rear foot high on the Bulgarian Split Squat to get to be comfortable enough to complete the exercise.

sandt604

Hello I have been with mfp pal for about 5 months not I have lost some weight but I need to kick it into gear and do some strength training. I have set up a weight set and a bench along with a punching bag. But I don't know what I should do and when Can I do this every day?? I don't want to over due it or under due it. Does any one have any suggestions for a newbie on lifting weights????

baisleac

Hello I have been with mfp pal for about 5 months not I have lost some weight but I need to kick it into gear and do some strength training. I have set up a weight set and a bench along with a punching bag. But I don't know what I should do and when Can I do this every day?? I don't want to over due it or under due it. Does any one have any suggestions for a newbie on lifting weights????

Read the book, The New Rules of Lifting for Women (Lift Like a Man, Look Like a Goddess). It has complete workout routines with photos and descriptions of the exercises, suggestions for nutrition and workout timing.

a_stronger_steph

I attempted Stage 2, Workout A today and got my *kitten* thoroughly kicked. I think I'm lacking some normal-person tendons or something because I can't seem to get my body to cooperate with the front squat/push press. It was a disaster. No matter how I adjusted the width of my grip on the bar, I couldn't seem to get it in the "groove of my deltoids" as it's supposed to. It's like my arms don't bend that way, or something. They probably do, I'm sure, but damned if I can figure out how to do it! And "rolling the bar towards my fingertips"? Um. Ehhhh?? I suppose I should have been prepared since the book warns that it feels awkward, but I didn't think it would feel THAT awkward. I could barely properly do the squat - and forget pushing that bar over my head!

So I'm wondering if maybe my upper body strength isn't at the right place yet? I was up to squatting 85 lbs (Olympic bar + 40 lbs) and that was going fine, but I downgraded to just the Olympic bar to try out the front squat/push press. You'd think I could power up 45 lbs above my head, right?

I also haven't been able to progress past the 30-degree inclined pushups. I can manage *one* poor-form measly regular pushup and then diddly.

How have the rest of you found your upper body strength? Were you able to do 'regular' pushups by the end of stage 1? Was the front squat/push press a nightmare for anyone else? Any ideas for what I can be doing better? I guess right now I'm just sorta bummed - I was really excited for Stage 2! (I guess it doesn't help that halfway through the workout my left knee decided to call it quits on me, but that's another story).

kensky

I think you are being too hard on yourself. Just keep upping (slowly...I wish more gyms had weights that went up in small increments...like 1 lb!). I wish I tracked more meticulously (like with a...spreadsheet!) so I could give you examples of what I was lifting in Level 1. Not 45 lb. bars over the head, for sure! Also, I don't think I got my pushups down until the end of Level 2...maybe even 3. I do remember that it was level 3 that I started to feel like a badass.

As for the deltoid shelf, I think that just takes practice. I highly recommend searching for Mark Rippetoe's videos on YouTube. I watched so many YouTube videos when trying to nail down my deadlift form. It is hard when so few trainers really address women lifting real weight with their real bodies (as opposed to a machine). There is a learning curve! Be patient but keep trying.

So I'm wondering if maybe my upper body strength isn't at the right place yet? I was up to squatting 85 lbs (Olympic bar + 40 lbs) and that was going fine, but I downgraded to just the Olympic bar to try out the front squat/push press. You'd think I could power up 45 lbs above my head, right?

I also haven't been able to progress past the 30-degree inclined pushups. I can manage *one* poor-form measly regular pushup and then diddly.

How have the rest of you found your upper body strength? Were you able to do 'regular' pushups by the end of stage 1? Was the front squat/push press a nightmare for anyone else? Any ideas for what I can be doing better? I guess right now I'm just sorta bummed - I was really excited for Stage 2! (I guess it doesn't help that halfway through the workout my left knee decided to call it quits on me, but that's another story).

AnaNotBanana

I attempted Stage 2, Workout A today and got my *kitten* thoroughly kicked. I think I'm lacking some normal-person tendons or something because I can't seem to get my body to cooperate with the front squat/push press. It was a disaster. No matter how I adjusted the width of my grip on the bar, I couldn't seem to get it in the "groove of my deltoids" as it's supposed to. It's like my arms don't bend that way, or something. They probably do, I'm sure, but damned if I can figure out how to do it! And "rolling the bar towards my fingertips"? Um. Ehhhh?? I suppose I should have been prepared since the book warns that it feels awkward, but I didn't think it would feel THAT awkward. I could barely properly do the squat - and forget pushing that bar over my head!

So I'm wondering if maybe my upper body strength isn't at the right place yet? I was up to squatting 85 lbs (Olympic bar + 40 lbs) and that was going fine, but I downgraded to just the Olympic bar to try out the front squat/push press. You'd think I could power up 45 lbs above my head, right?

I also haven't been able to progress past the 30-degree inclined pushups. I can manage *one* poor-form measly regular pushup and then diddly.

How have the rest of you found your upper body strength? Were you able to do 'regular' pushups by the end of stage 1? Was the front squat/push press a nightmare for anyone else? Any ideas for what I can be doing better? I guess right now I'm just sorta bummed - I was really excited for Stage 2! (I guess it doesn't help that halfway through the workout my left knee decided to call it quits on me, but that's another story).

I had issues with the front squat/push press too. My wrists were hurting after the first few. I think it's just a matter of getting use to the form. I just completed my 2nd workout A last night and it still felt a little awkward.

As for the push-ups I'm still on modified incline push ups also. I think I definitely developed more strength during Phase 1 and am at a lower incline than when I started. In my opinion more important than doing regular push up is being able to hold the correct form at whatever incline you are at. As long as you feel yourself making improvements that's all that matters!

baisleac

I attempted Stage 2, Workout A today and got my *kitten* thoroughly kicked. I think I'm lacking some normal-person tendons or something because I can't seem to get my body to cooperate with the front squat/push press. It was a disaster. No matter how I adjusted the width of my grip on the bar, I couldn't seem to get it in the "groove of my deltoids" as it's supposed to. It's like my arms don't bend that way, or something. They probably do, I'm sure, but damned if I can figure out how to do it! And "rolling the bar towards my fingertips"? Um. Ehhhh?? I suppose I should have been prepared since the book warns that it feels awkward, but I didn't think it would feel THAT awkward. I could barely properly do the squat - and forget pushing that bar over my head!

So I'm wondering if maybe my upper body strength isn't at the right place yet? I was up to squatting 85 lbs (Olympic bar + 40 lbs) and that was going fine, but I downgraded to just the Olympic bar to try out the front squat/push press. You'd think I could power up 45 lbs above my head, right?

I also haven't been able to progress past the 30-degree inclined pushups. I can manage *one* poor-form measly regular pushup and then diddly.

How have the rest of you found your upper body strength? Were you able to do 'regular' pushups by the end of stage 1? Was the front squat/push press a nightmare for anyone else? Any ideas for what I can be doing better? I guess right now I'm just sorta bummed - I was really excited for Stage 2! (I guess it doesn't help that halfway through the workout my left knee decided to call it quits on me, but that's another story).

I have to admit, my husband and I cheated with the front/squat push press... we substituted the "Clean & Press".

We just couldn't make our wrists work as shown in the book, so we opted for a similar but different exercise. We did, however, reduce the weight from our previous squats... my husband's presses are a bit weaker than mine and we don't usually reset between each of us doing the exercise (one's 60 second break is the other's turn on the set); the exception being dumbbell exercises because we have two sets.

Push ups have never really been a problem for me, but I grew up with weak knees and tended toward upper body focused sports (Butterfly stroke swimmer, uneven parallel bars gymnastics).

bbygrl5

Okay everyone, I'm about halfway through phase 1 and I just started repeating a week's worth of workouts (my own choice) because I'm WIPED OUT!!!

I've been ambitious about increasing my weights, steadily, but heavily and I'm just feeling wiped! I don't know if I should keep going this route or not, but I'm finding it hard to do any sort of cardio on non-lift days.

I will say, and I know I should consult a doctor for a professional opinion on this, but I've been taking a flexeril at night on lift days, otherwise, I wake up extremely stiff. Do you think this could be somehow affecting my strength?

I'm just so tired. I really don't want to reduce the weights. Do you think I need to though?

No one have any input on my previous post? I promise I won't take your opinion as medical advice, lol. I'm just curious what you guys think. I'm still so utterly exhausted!!!

elizabethblake

Okay everyone, I'm about halfway through phase 1 and I just started repeating a week's worth of workouts (my own choice) because I'm WIPED OUT!!!

I've been ambitious about increasing my weights, steadily, but heavily and I'm just feeling wiped! I don't know if I should keep going this route or not, but I'm finding it hard to do any sort of cardio on non-lift days.

I will say, and I know I should consult a doctor for a professional opinion on this, but I've been taking a flexeril at night on lift days, otherwise, I wake up extremely stiff. Do you think this could be somehow affecting my strength?

I'm just so tired. I really don't want to reduce the weights. Do you think I need to though?

No one have any input on my previous post? I promise I won't take your opinion as medical advice, lol. I'm just curious what you guys think. I'm still so utterly exhausted!!!

1. Are you eating enough calories? Are you following the recommended amount of calories from the book?
2. Are you eating good calories? Are you giving your body the fuel it needs to complete these workouts?
3. If you're eating good and are still wiped out, then I'd cut out all other forms of exercise except for lifting, and cut that back to twice a week and give your body two days between workouts to recover.
4. Just my personal experience - but Flexeril wipes me out. Puts me right to sleep when I take it. If your muscles are sore, maybe you should take something weaker than Flexeril.

Unless you're having a problem maintaining form, I'd stick with the amount of weight, just make sure you're following a good, healthy diet and getting enough rest.

bbygrl5

1. Are you eating enough calories? Are you following the recommended amount of calories from the book?
2. Are you eating good calories? Are you giving your body the fuel it needs to complete these workouts?
3. If you're eating good and are still wiped out, then I'd cut out all other forms of exercise except for lifting, and cut that back to twice a week and give your body two days between workouts to recover.
4. Just my personal experience - but Flexeril wipes me out. Puts me right to sleep when I take it. If your muscles are sore, maybe you should take something weaker than Flexeril.

Unless you're having a problem maintaining form, I'd stick with the amount of weight, just make sure you're following a good, healthy diet and getting enough rest.

Thank you for your input! I am actually eating over the amount of calories suggested on most days because I've just been ravenous. I'm mostly getting enough protein, but I should still be eating better and cutting down on a little bit of the processed foods I've gotten back in the habit of eating. I'll try to work more on that and see if that makes a difference.

You did bring up a very good point I haven't been concentrating on about rest, especially sleep. I sleep decently, but I probably should be getting a little more than I am. I'm going to try to set a goal of getting in bed a little earlier and also see if this improves my exhaustion.

I do hate the idea of reducing weight, so I'm gonna give these suggestions a try and see if that improves my exhaustion level. Thank you again!

a_stronger_steph

Thanks all for your thoughts and advice! I did some reading on the NROLFW forums last night, and apparently it's pretty common to have trouble with the front squat/push press. Some said to try the EZ Curl bars, which I will try next time, I think - and I'll go down to about 35 lbs, at least for the first set, to see if that helps at all. Barring that, I might try it with dumbbells also.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one that is taking their time with the inclined push-ups, too. I'm feeling much better about all of this now!

Kensky, you're right, I should probably be a bit easier on myself! I can feel my muscles now (combination of working them and ditching some of the insulating layer on top of them, hehe), and I'm definitely stronger than I was in the middle of the summer! I'll just keep on keepin' on.

Thanks all!!

idauria

I am almost done with level 1. I only have 3 workouts left. I would have been done this week but I was away for 5 days. Yesterday I did Level 1, workout 7A. I went up to 55 lbs for the squats and I am really feeling it today. I was hoping to be squatting heavier than that by time Level 1 was done but I guess I'm not ready. It took some effort getting back up on the final few squats. I will still try to increase the weight on my next workout though to see how far I can go. I am looking forward to moving on though. Level 2 does look pretty intimidating however. I am a bit scared of the push/press. I will try using the e-z curl bar first to make it easier on my wrists.

Rae6503

Finally started today! Loved it.

Libby81

I am sooooooooooooooooooooo late joining this thread. I got mine last week and am reading through now. I've adjusted my calorie targets and love how the book explains how and why and doesn't just tell you what to. Can't wait to get my workouts started on wednesday

aliciakay3086

I tried the front squat push press today with a curl bar, since the gym I went to does not have the fixed-weight barbells, and...it was really hard on my wrists...worse than a regular barbell! I could only do two sets with 45 lbs (I'm in Stage 4) and I have been doing 3 at that weight.

elizabethblake

I tried the front squat push press today with a curl bar, since the gym I went to does not have the fixed-weight barbells, and...it was really hard on my wrists...worse than a regular barbell! I could only do two sets with 45 lbs (I'm in Stage 4) and I have been doing 3 at that weight.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, I haven't had any problems with my wrists...

It IS hard, I did it for the second time last Friday and managed 9 reps on the first set and 8.5 on the second (couldn't quite get a full press). I did have major bruises on my shoulders but used a pad the second time and it was fine.

I'm wondering why they have us doing all that ab work when he pretty much pokes fun of doing crunches in the book. Seriously, Workout B of Stage 2 has like 4 ab/core exercises! Yesterday I was short on time so I did 25 prone jackknives instead. I think I'll do some planks at home, but all that other stuff, I don't really see the purpose of it.

Libby81

Wow I just had a right thicko long moment then trying to figure out the workouts lol So easy once you get your head around it really. Must be the tiredness kicking in.