OK, let's talk

Thomasm198

First: Thank you for creating the site and the app and for keeping them free. They have helped me a lot and the site has allowed me to make friends with some great people.

Secondly: The Groups facility is a great idea. I look forward to them.

Thirdly: I was a moderator on a forum many years ago and it is a thankless job so I must say that the moderators are doing a great job overall.

Mike

will there be a warning, though? Because I had a thread locked the other day, because the mod said she THOUGHT it was my intention...when what she thought was not at all my intention. So, would we at least get warned or just banned?

In almost all cases, we will issue a warning before we hand out a suspension or a ban. Bans are extremely rare. You have to either have done something really terrible, or you have to have had several warnings/suspensions perviously.

For trolling, you'd definitely receive a warning first. But if you continued to troll, you may receive a suspension, and if the pattern continued, a ban.

macpatti

Mike,

Just as the others have stated, I am grateful for this site. I dont know if I would have been as dedicated to the weight loss process without it. With that being said, I think things have gotten out of hand the last few weeks but by both sides of the "sex chat" isle. I am a firm believer that if you don't like something, you have the freedom to not partake. I think complaing about others partaking in sexual conversations but seeking them out is like saying you hate alcohol but show up at a bar and complain that beer is being served. I hardly ever take part in the community portion, but when I do, if i see a title and feel offended by it, I don't enter it. I don't log on and then act offended. I hope you can see how some became upset when it appeared that you were reprimanding some for "stalking"and not the others. I hope your clarrification clears the air.

Just my two cents
Dave

While I agree that if you seek out a specific topic that offends you, then you can't complain about what you see there, I can also tell you that many times the topic seems innocent but takes a bad turn within the thread. If I hate alcohol and I show up to a bar, I shouldn't complain. But, if I hate alcohol and show up to an elementary school, I can complain that it's not the appropriate place for alcohol (I drink alcohol, just going along with the example given). What I mean by this is, if I'm in a thread that is not sexual in nature, I have every right to speak up when it gets vulgar, crude, or x-rated. My approach has always been to voice my opinion about that in the topic, as opposed to "reporting" to the mods, however, I can see why others are afraid to do that. I believe that creating groups will help with this issue.

deesjourney2fit

I'm the creator of MyFitnessPal. I'm the one that has been moderating a lot of the topics today. I think there have been a lot of misperceptions

"misperceptions"? Is that a word?

Yes, that is a word. Need a definition?

mis·per·ceive (m s p r-s v ). tr.v. mis·per·ceived, mis·per·ceiv·ing, mis·per·ceives. To perceive incorrectly; misunderstand

maidentl

Mike, you said:

"- We've seen members trying to push the limits of our sexual content rules, making thinly veiled sexual references and always trying to push the line"

I'm also aware of at least one instance where something was talked about literally and in proper context. And because someone "could" perceive it as a sexual innuendo, it was punished. Maybe that's why people are pushing back now?

My next question is, can we talk about the elephant in the room? A user here was sweetness and light on the boards and was harassing women in PM's. At least one person reported this and said she was reprimanded for doing so. And I think that's where all of this drama began, with this situation. Will we be able to report PM harassment int he future or is that going to continue to be kosher?

Learning2LoveMe

I must not spend enough time in the forums... but I don't see any drama, arguments, hatefulness, etc. I used to see a little heatedness in some HCG topics but that was the extent of it.

And now for a request.... can we get a 'like' button?? I know its been asked a billion times but it would be must easier to "like" peoples auto-posts when they are finished with their diary than going through and commenting on everyone. Even better yet (and I know this has been requested too) is a notification for 'wall posts', so if someone comments on your status or you ask a question on theirs and they reply you would know about it.

Thanks for everything you do Mike (and the mods)... I love this site and I'm always telling anyone who wants to get healthy to join here. Ok, back to my corner now. hehe

Both a "like" button and notifications are on our to-do list. Unfortunately, to be able to offer the site for free, we have to keep a very small team. We literally have a 1,000 item to-do list, and at any time, we might be working on say the top 3. But both of those are a very high priority for us, and we'll do our best to make them happen. No promises on timing though.

Woohoo!! I feel special you commented on my post :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I wish I knew more about website programming and such... I would help you for free in a heartbeat!

FearAnLoathing

First, Mike, thank you for explaining and taking the time to discuss this with everyone, I know this whole situation has got to be a serious pain in the tush for you.

Has it occurred to anyone though, that by trying to "mave everyone feel comfortable" you are actually making a very large group "uncomfortable" by making them unable to say anything at all without fear of repercussions? Just because a person does not personally like something, does not mean that [whatever it is they don't like] is actually bullying or innapropriate.
Like you said, there are plenty of topics I'm uncomfortable with, I choose not to discuss them. So you say you disagree with the "just don't read it" idea, I get that, I guess. But it is ridiculous that people are reporting posts constantly, just because they personally don't like what's being discussed/the way it's being discussed/the person discussing it. It's simply not fair.
And, tbh, I don't see how making a 'groups' feature will help this. Example: someone posts a question about HCG in the main forums, someone responds with "that's not a good idea," now the OP is upset because that's not the answer they wanted, and they 'report post' as bullying, and here we are again, back at square one. There just needs to be alot more personal responsibility, and grown-up behavior, from BOTH sides of this argument.

Thank you this is what I was thinking,it seems that in trying to make it comfortable for everyone many people are very uncomfortable,to the point were some great members have left the site.I know you dont believe in if you dont like it dont look because it leads to majority rules,but it seems that there is already a majority rule going on

♥_Ellybean_♥

Love the Groups idea!!!

and a like button along with that ignore button would be great!

bry_all01

will there be a warning, though? Because I had a thread locked the other day, because the mod said she THOUGHT it was my intention...when what she thought was not at all my intention. So, would we at least get warned or just banned?

In almost all cases, we will issue a warning before we hand out a suspension or a ban. Bans are extremely rare. You have to either have done something really terrible, or you have to have had several warnings/suspensions perviously.

For trolling, you'd definitely receive a warning first. But if you continued to troll, you may receive a suspension, and if the pattern continued, a ban.

thank you, I just wanted to be sure. I would really hate to get banned. No, I'm not a troll but, could possibly be seen as such by a few...

godblessourhome

-Instead of the clickable "rules page" how about a PM that is sent to all the new Pals as soon as they are a member. In that PM will be the rules, also it can discuss the search function and where it is and how it works, and I guess anything else you think should be there since this is your site.

oooh, i like it!

kaitimae

First off, thank you so much for posting this explanation.

I think groups are a great idea. Personally, I would LOVE to be able to connect with other Christians and not feel like I was going against forum rules. My faith has a lot to do with every single part of my life, including weight loss and trying to live a healthier life. I think it is hurtful, and I don't think it is fair that we can't post about that in the main forum, especially if we are doing it in a respectful manner. It wouldn't bother me at all if people of other faiths, atheists, agnostics, etc. were to start threads regarding their own faiths or lack therof - I simply wouldn't read them! (Please extrapolate this to politics, sexual orientation, other supposedly "hot button topics.") Just because I don't agree with someone does not mean they are wrong, though perhaps some other users are not able to make this distinction.

For me though, I feel the forum rules are, in general, way too strict, and you are alienating a lot of - really great - users. When things get to be as drama-filled as today was, and it causes you lose one of the most knowledgeable, helpful people on this website - that really is a shame.

I love MFP. The calorie and exercise trackers are superb. And I take FULL advantage of the forums, (yes, mostly simply for the social aspect) despite knowing that I am currently "not allowed" to post things regarding one of the most important aspects of my life. I really appreciate all that you and the MFP team do, Mike. Thank you for working hard to improve the site and make it even better for all of us.

Not all are as tolerant as you towards others beliefs

I agree completely. That really is the root of a lot of the forum problems around here. Intolerance drives me insane, especially when those who are acting in rude and hateful ways describe themselves as Christian. Makes the rest of us look bad, too.

foodforfuel

Mike,

Just as the others have stated, I am grateful for this site. I dont know if I would have been as dedicated to the weight loss process without it. With that being said, I think things have gotten out of hand the last few weeks but by both sides of the "sex chat" isle. I am a firm believer that if you don't like something, you have the freedom to not partake. I think complaing about others partaking in sexual conversations but seeking them out is like saying you hate alcohol but show up at a bar and complain that beer is being served. I hardly ever take part in the community portion, but when I do, if i see a title and feel offended by it, I don't enter it. I don't log on and then act offended. I hope you can see how some became upset when it appeared that you were reprimanding some for "stalking"and not the others. I hope your clarrification clears the air.

Just my two cents
Dave

Very good points here. Though the 'groups' sound like a lovely idea, I don't see how they would be any different than the 'chit-chat, fun, and games' topic. For people so easily offended, that preach about this being a fitness site and not a blah blah blah whatever, it would be so easy if they just DO NOT CLICK ON THE THREAD. To me, what the heck is an additional 'group' going to have going for it that 'chit-chat, fun, and games' does not? Save yourself the time, and just put the "I agree to these rules" checkbox above the chit-chat. Make it 'user beware'. Because those that are easily offended or don't agree with certain posts will sure as heck find something to complain about in the group section, and you'll wind up with the same problems you have now. Instead of trying to purge the site of any impurity, I think it would be much easier to flat out say "don't go under this topic - if you do, do so at your own risk and quit your complaining."

Mike

First, Mike, thank you for explaining and taking the time to discuss this with everyone, I know this whole situation has got to be a serious pain in the tush for you.

Has it occurred to anyone though, that by trying to "mave everyone feel comfortable" you are actually making a very large group "uncomfortable" by making them unable to say anything at all without fear of repercussions? Just because a person does not personally like something, does not mean that [whatever it is they don't like] is actually bullying or innapropriate.
Like you said, there are plenty of topics I'm uncomfortable with, I choose not to discuss them. So you say you disagree with the "just don't read it" idea, I get that, I guess. But it is ridiculous that people are reporting posts constantly, just because they personally don't like what's being discussed/the way it's being discussed/the person discussing it. It's simply not fair.
And, tbh, I don't see how making a 'groups' feature will help this. Example: someone posts a question about HCG in the main forums, someone responds with "that's not a good idea," now the OP is upset because that's not the answer they wanted, and they 'report post' as bullying, and here we are again, back at square one. There just needs to be alot more personal responsibility, and grown-up behavior, from BOTH sides of this argument.

So a couple of notes on this:

- First, if someone is respectfully disagreeing with someone, then even if it's reported, we won't take action. Just because a post is reported doesn't mean that we do anything about it. We first make sure that the post actually breaks a rule. And simply disagreeing with someone wouldn't violate a rule.

Now, if you said "you're an idiot for taking HCG.", that'd be a post we would act on.

There are a lot of rumors going on about suspensions, bans, etc. But we have not banned anyone for the issues that have been going on recently, we've issued a handful of warnings, and we have only issued one suspension. For the one suspension, the member in question self-reported themselves to us, although we were already aware of their post, and at least seemed to agree that a suspension was warranted.

We're not tyrants, and we're not trying to make sure people only post the 3 sentences we allow on the site. But we are working hard to make sure that the environment stays safe and supportive for everyone. I think if you actually knew what actions were being taken, you'd find that there is a great deal of restraint vs. some kind of "mods going wild" behavior.

The one exception to that is that I've deleted a lot of topics recently. I mainly was trying to keep the drama off the forums, and clearly that didn't work. But no suspensions were issued other than the one I mentioned.

Mike

Very good points here. Though the 'groups' sound like a lovely idea, I don't see how they would be any different than the 'chit-chat, fun, and games' topic. For people so easily offended, that preach about this being a fitness site and not a blah blah blah whatever, it would be so easy if they just DO NOT CLICK ON THE THREAD. To me, what the heck is an additional 'group' going to have going for it that 'chit-chat, fun, and games' does not? Save yourself the time, and just put the "I agree to these rules" checkbox above the chit-chat. Make it 'user beware'. Because those that are easily offended or don't agree with certain posts will sure as heck find something to complain about in the group section, and you'll wind up with the same problems you have now. Instead of trying to purge the site of any impurity, I think it would be much easier to flat out say "don't go under this topic - if you do, do so at your own risk and quit your complaining."

Groups will be different because if you don't join the group, you won't see it on the forums. You won't see any topics from the group on a regular basis unless you specifically seek it out to join it.

I_give_it_2_u_str8

again, going down a slippery slope if you're going to ban someone for saying "you're an idiot for taking HCG.",

sorry but i respectfully disagree again.

ginabina13

Thanks for taking time to explain!! I love this site and will continue to support it. I also love the "Groups" idea!

Keep up the great work!

Carl01

A suggestion that may be helpful in attracting members to volunteer to serve as a moderator would be what I have seen on another large public forum.
The people have their regular accounts but they are not identified as mods...they are still under very specific rules of action and are accountable to you and fellow mods so as to not have a rogue one.
They all can also sign in under a generic moderator account to deal with things that arise.

What it does is take the stigma of of having a person identified as a "killjoy" or other term.
In the course of a thread the mod can step in and say cool it,knock it off etc and not have to worry about reprisal from friends.

There can be different levels of ability created using a few mod accounts to help as a check and balance based on your level of trust in that person.

Food for thought is all.

koosdel

Permissions, based on rank. Rank being based on the amount of time one has been a member, amount and character of any 'reports' against said member, and total number of posts. Permissions; posting topics, posting in certain forums, posting pictures, responding to posts. Also, the 'report post' option should require a message.

Just my 20$. My thoughts are worth more than 2 cents...

Jade_Butterfly

Very good points here. Though the 'groups' sound like a lovely idea, I don't see how they would be any different than the 'chit-chat, fun, and games' topic. For people so easily offended, that preach about this being a fitness site and not a blah blah blah whatever, it would be so easy if they just DO NOT CLICK ON THE THREAD. To me, what the heck is an additional 'group' going to have going for it that 'chit-chat, fun, and games' does not? Save yourself the time, and just put the "I agree to these rules" checkbox above the chit-chat. Make it 'user beware'. Because those that are easily offended or don't agree with certain posts will sure as heck find something to complain about in the group section, and you'll wind up with the same problems you have now. Instead of trying to purge the site of any impurity, I think it would be much easier to flat out say "don't go under this topic - if you do, do so at your own risk and quit your complaining."

Groups will be different because if you don't join the group, you won't see it on the forums. You won't see any topics from the group on a regular basis unless you specifically seek it out to join it.

I absolutely love this idea. . .

cm2two

And we all need to realize that sometimes there is just no pleasing every single person. Therein lies a big problem which is in no way the mods' faults nor should they be blamed. Clearly, Mike is trying to sort things out, get ideas, what-have you, but a little give and take from everyone will go a long way. The guy is trying and every single person should be grateful whether you agree with the things he wants to improve on or not. Open minds leads to a lot of problem solving or something like that.

Mike

I am a volunteer mod on a small political site and yes,it is a thankless "job" to say the least.
What seems to work best is a policy of when in doubt do nothing and by that I mean if there is a complaint raised by a member or an issue any moderator sees and questions if appropriate then we all get together and unless obvious no action is taken although it will be monitored.
The person filing the report is then notified of this and why,what is fun and innocent to one may be terribly offensive to another so rational judgment based on accepted social standards should apply.
Everyone is responsible for their own homes and computer usage.

What seems to me,IMO only,to have caused things things here to have become such a train wreck is no level of communication over various issues at there inception.
It gave an appearance of trying to sweep some unpleasant events under the rug and whether correct or not once the frustration starts it is like a festering wound that will not go away and suddenly starts to spread well beyond the initial cause.

I have been around various forums over several years and this one is no different then any other,you have human nature at play and even though in a perfect world some things should be easy the reality is they just aren`t.

My only advice or input would be a lot better level of communication as to why actions are taken,they don`t have to be heavy handed or appear to be disciplinary but a simple explanation.
I do understand that there are times when a thread for obvious reasons should just be thrown away,I would bet 95% of membership here would always agree even if they personally enjoyed it.

In short I have rarely seen a problem such has crept up in the last week get better by trying to just ignore it and hope it goes away.
This is a good idea Mike and hope if something starts to snowball again the same thing happens at a much sooner place.

Thanks for the opportunity to express this without fear of reprisal.
Hope everyone will speak their mind civilly and respectfully while being honest about their opinions.

I agree - the communication was poor, and that's on me. This topic was an attempt to correct that, but we'll definitely try to be even better next time.

I can't promise everything will be 100% better tomorrow. We're still extremely thinly staffed, and the poor mods are exhausted with all the hubbub from the last few days. Remember, they are VOLUNTEERS. They are really amazing people. They devote their own free time to do a thankless job only because they love MyFitnessPal so much. They just want to make the site better, and I let them down by not recruiting enough help for them. But again, we're trying to correct that and we'll do our best to make the situation right.

Iamfit4life

Thank you for this site, I enjoy it and I've been a moderator for other sites. I know how difficult it can be...



While were throwing out suggestions... maybe a womens bored? Do men even really want to see TOM threads? I think gender specific ones might be useful for stuff like icky medical or body stuff.

**forgive my use of word "icky"

Rachaelluvszipped

Thank you Mike! The things going on here was just getting way out of hand..Wow! Glad you stepped in and explained! :flowerforyou:

Jade_Butterfly

A suggestion that may be helpful in attracting members to volunteer to serve as a moderator would be what I have seen on another large public forum.
The people have their regular accounts but they are not identified as mods...they are still under very specific rules of action and are accountable to you and fellow mods so as to not have a rogue one.
They all can also sign in under a generic moderator account to deal with things that arise.

What it does is take the stigma of of having a person identified as a "killjoy" or other term.
In the course of a thread the mod can step in and say cool it,knock it off etc and not have to worry about reprisal from friends.

There can be different levels of ability created using a few mod accounts to help as a check and balance based on your level of trust in that person.

Food for thought is all.

That is a great idea. . This is the way that they ran it when I moderated for a lupus/fibro group that I was in. . It is very effective I must say. .

Marla64

Just wanted to say hi, Mike. Your site has changed my life. I've met wonderful friends. And to be truthful, most of my friends here don't go anywhere near the forums because of all the crap you're dealing with. We have one or two threads we frequent, we made our bonds, found our encouragement and forge through this journey. The journey is hard enough without having high school drama to deal with--

But, thank you for this site. Thank you for your efforts to improve it and make something for everyone. I'm sure you know you'll never quite get there. Someone will always have a problem, or create one. But, you're aces for keeping up the efforts.

manorexicmarshmallow

Thank you for this site, I enjoy it and I've been a moderator for other sites. I know how difficult it can be...



While were throwing out suggestions... maybe a womens bored? Do men even really want to see TOM threads? I think gender specific ones might be useful for stuff like icky medical or body stuff.

**forgive my use of word "icky"

Umm.. the site is like 75% women. The whole message board is a women's board If all the women left the main board, there'd be no one left I'd miss y'all

Marla64

again, going down a slippery slope if you're going to ban someone for saying "you're an idiot for taking HCG.",

sorry but i respectfully disagree again.

Have to agree--

maidentl

While were throwing out suggestions... maybe a womens bored? Do men even really want to see TOM threads? I think gender specific ones might be useful for stuff like icky medical or body stuff.

I don't think anyone wants to see it anymore. I think a sticky topic on how a woman's body works and what to expect monthly would be a good idea.

NeuroticVirgo

again, going down a slippery slope if you're going to ban someone for saying "you're an idiot for taking HCG.",

sorry but i respectfully disagree again.

I don't see how this is a debate. Calling someone an idiot is obviously disrespectful and unnecessarily. Unnecessary being the key there. You can make your point, and disagree just by saying that "taking HCG is not a good idea".... There is no reason for name calling.

scapez

It's been disappointing to see how the forums have degraded lately and I appreciate Mike stepping in as he has today and taking the time to talk with everyone.

This is a great site and I hope it's here for a long time to come.