OK, let's talk

Jovialation

*applause*

I refuse to read the responses, Mike. I caught some glimpses and I don't like all this "you should do this" and "what about THAT?!" reactions.

You're doing the best you can and I'd like to simultaneously thank you and apologize.

I've been on other forums with more specific group to cater to...and this place is nothing like that. It can't be easy to mod or know what to expect from us next being such a varied group.

NeuroticVirgo

A suggestion that may be helpful in attracting members to volunteer to serve as a moderator would be what I have seen on another large public forum.
The people have their regular accounts but they are not identified as mods...they are still under very specific rules of action and are accountable to you and fellow mods so as to not have a rogue one.
They all can also sign in under a generic moderator account to deal with things that arise.

What it does is take the stigma of of having a person identified as a "killjoy" or other term.
In the course of a thread the mod can step in and say cool it,knock it off etc and not have to worry about reprisal from friends.

There can be different levels of ability created using a few mod accounts to help as a check and balance based on your level of trust in that person.

Food for thought is all.

This is a really good idea.

Jovialation

Permissions, based on rank. Rank being based on the amount of time one has been a member, amount and character of any 'reports' against said member, and total number of posts. Permissions; posting topics, posting in certain forums, posting pictures, responding to posts. Also, the 'report post' option should require a message.

Just my 20$. My thoughts are worth more than 2 cents...

ok last thing

Ill try not to go back, read, and comment BUT

Don't use post count as a ranking system. OMG that turns out SO SO badly. Believe me, I've been somewhere in which they did it ...it was just bad.

Iamfit4life

While were throwing out suggestions... maybe a womens bored? Do men even really want to see TOM threads? I think gender specific ones might be useful for stuff like icky medical or body stuff.

I don't think anyone wants to see it anymore. I think a sticky topic on how a woman's body works and what to expect monthly would be a good idea.

That might be fine too. I'd be happy never to see a thread about it again. lol
It's been 20 years, I know the routine
But I feel bad for men running across those threads.

Bermudabarbie

Wonderful explanation. Mike this is a fabulous site. Thanks for all you have done! I wish you continued success. Hope that you achieve the same financial success as Mark Zuckerberg!

Enforcer25

Just like you asked for volunteers for mods, if there are other spots to help out MFP that are vo,unteer, why don't you post those also, there sees to be a pretty diverse group here, maybe there are other things you could delegate out to volunteers. Thanks again for creating this site.

NeuroticVirgo

Just like you asked for volunteers for mods, if there are other spots to help out MFP that are vo,unteer, why don't you post those also, there sees to be a pretty diverse group here, maybe there are other things you could delegate out to volunteers. Thanks again for creating this site.

Not a bad idea. I bet there are a few compute programmers out there that might be willing to spare some time just to help make a *like* button etc. LOL

Mike

Mike, you said:

"- We've seen members trying to push the limits of our sexual content rules, making thinly veiled sexual references and always trying to push the line"

I'm also aware of at least one instance where something was talked about literally and in proper context. And because someone "could" perceive it as a sexual innuendo, it was punished. Maybe that's why people are pushing back now?

My next question is, can we talk about the elephant in the room? A user here was sweetness and light on the boards and was harassing women in PM's. At least one person reported this and said she was reprimanded for doing so. And I think that's where all of this drama began, with this situation. Will we be able to report PM harassment int he future or is that going to continue to be kosher?

So we are not aware of any reports that were received until some posts were made on the message boards about the situation. No one sent a private message to any moderator, or to myself.

There were reports made on the message boards. But the forums are not the appropriate venue to air such concerns, and we specifically have a rule that states that talking about other members in a negative way on the forums is not allowed, even if true. The reason for this is that we've had situations in the past where one member posted allegations about another. A witch hunt would of course ensue. And later, we'd discover that the accuser actually was a jealous ex-wife who completely made everything up. If you allow people to attack other people on the forums, that's the danger you run, so we don't allow it.

Just to be clear, I am NOT saying that the accusations were either true or false. I will not discuss any specifics about a member with any other member. I am just using this story as an illustration of what can happen if we allow people to bash one another on the forums.

However, if you are being harassed, OF COURSE we want to know about it. There is absolutely NO reason why we wouldn't want to do something about that. Why on earth would we want to let someone continue to be harassed if we knew about it? The correct way to let us know, though, is through a private message, not on the forums.

If someone you know was reprimanded, I am 99.99% sure that it was because they posted their "report" on the forums, not through the proper channels. And if that is not the case, please let me know and I will look into it personally.

Going forward, we are planning on adding a "Report Inappropriate Message" button in the messaging system so that it's much easier to report an inappropriate message to a moderator. But until then, PLEASE send either Steven, one of the mods, or myself a message if you're experiencing any kind of abuse. We'll look into it promptly and take the appropriate action.

Marla64

*applause*

I refuse to read the responses, Mike. I caught some glimpses and I don't like all this "you should do this" and "what about THAT?!" reactions.

You're doing the best you can and I'd like to simultaneously thank you and apologize.

I've been on other forums with more specific group to cater to...and this place is nothing like that. It can't be easy to mod or know what to expect from us next being such a varied group.

Well, he did ask, "let's talk."

No biggie.

EmpressOfJudgment

I think the groups with self-moderators are good idea. I don't get too easily offended... and I think it is sad that people cannot have open discussions on any topic.

You could also offer separate 'chit chat' forums with 'ratings' such as PG-17, G, etc. This way the parents that are in the living room with their kids are responsible for selecting a G rated forum.

Seriously I dont understand why if you ee a post that says bikin pics and you have a kid in the room you would still go into the thread if you have an issue with your kids seeing someone in a bikini
Thank you for trying to improve things I look forward to groups

I think things have gotten out of hand the last few weeks but by both sides of the "sex chat" isle. I am a firm believer that if you don't like something, you have the freedom to not partake. I think complaing about others partaking in sexual conversations but seeking them out is like saying you hate alcohol but show up at a bar and complain that beer is being served

^^^I agree with all of that.

Thanks so much for the site, Mike, and for doing your best to moderate. This place has become very important to me over the last 7 months or so. I love how it has helped me and all of the great people in my friends list. However, I think you and your mods have taken a very heavy hand in censoring things as of late. In your efforts to keep the site from changing, it is changing drastically in a different direction. I've lost great supportive and successful friends. People who meant a lot to me in my journey here. The fact of the matter is that we are all supposed to be adults here. Yes, sometimes adults are flirty and vulgar, but as long as that is kept in the chit-chat forum I don't see how anyone should be complaining about it. We have a choice to click or not click on a topic. We even have a choice to avoid the forums all together. No one is being forced to read offensive material. I think some people miss their days as high school hall monitor and want the other "kids" to stop having fun. As long as no one is being personally harassed abused, or stalked I think things should just be left alone. If someone does something that truly deserves moderating, warn them and delete that particular post. Unless the entire thread is just a train-wreck of truly offensive material, there is no need to delete the entire thread. You had said something earlier about how you want to make this a place where everyone can be comfortable all of the time. Well, it's just not possible to please everyone. Welcome to the wonderful world of the internet. It's a rough place, people. Put on your helmet and buckle up or turn off your computer and go watch Jay Leno.

SabrinaJL

And we all need to realize that sometimes there is just no pleasing every single person. Therein lies a big problem which is in no way the mods' faults nor should they be blamed. Clearly, Mike is trying to sort things out, get ideas, what-have you, but a little give and take from everyone will go a long way. The guy is trying and every single person should be grateful whether you agree with the things he wants to improve on or not. Open minds leads to a lot of problem solving or something like that.

Agree 100%. No matter what he does, there's gonna be somebody who disagrees/is unhappy about it. It is just not possible to make everybody happy on a site this large. All he can do is run it as he sees fit and the people using this awesome, free tool that he provides, need to respect that.

Jovialation

*applause*

I refuse to read the responses, Mike. I caught some glimpses and I don't like all this "you should do this" and "what about THAT?!" reactions.

You're doing the best you can and I'd like to simultaneously thank you and apologize.

I've been on other forums with more specific group to cater to...and this place is nothing like that. It can't be easy to mod or know what to expect from us next being such a varied group.

Well, he did ask, "let's talk."

No biggie.

lol I realize that...I just cant imagine how stressful all the requests are when hes got this whole team working in their spare time on this place

Mike

I think the groups with self-moderators are good idea. I don't get too easily offended... and I think it is sad that people cannot have open discussions on any topic.

You could also offer separate 'chit chat' forums with 'ratings' such as PG-17, G, etc. This way the parents that are in the living room with their kids are responsible for selecting a G rated forum.

Seriously I dont understand why if you ee a post that says bikin pics and you have a kid in the room you would still go into the thread if you have an issue with your kids seeing someone in a bikini
Thank you for trying to improve things I look forward to groups

I think things have gotten out of hand the last few weeks but by both sides of the "sex chat" isle. I am a firm believer that if you don't like something, you have the freedom to not partake. I think complaing about others partaking in sexual conversations but seeking them out is like saying you hate alcohol but show up at a bar and complain that beer is being served

^^^I agree with all of that.

Thanks so much for the site, Mike, and for doing your best to moderate. This place has become very important to me over the last 7 months or so. I love how it has helped me and all of the great people in my friends list. However, I think you and your mods have taken a very heavy hand in censoring things as of late. In your efforts to keep the site from changing, it is changing drastically in a different direction. I've lost great supportive and successful friends. People who meant a lot to me in my journey here. The fact of the matter is that we are all supposed to be adults here. Yes, sometimes adults are flirty and vulgar, but as long as that is kept in the chit-chat forum I don't see how anyone should be complaining about it. We have a choice to click or not click on a topic. We even have a choice to avoid the forums all together. No one is being forced to read offensive material. I think some people miss their days as high school hall monitor and want the other "kids" to stop having fun. As long as no one is being personally harassed abused, or stalked I think things should just be left alone. If someone does something that truly deserves moderating, warn them and delete that particular post. Unless the entire thread is just a train-wreck of truly offensive material, there is no need to delete the entire thread. You had said something earlier about how you want to make this a place where everyone can be comfortable all of the time. Well, it's just not possible to please everyone. Welcome to the wonderful world of the internet. It's a rough place, people. Put on your helmet and buckle up or turn off your computer and go watch Jay Leno.

Marcia - I wrote a response above about my thoughts on "if you don't like it, don't click it". The bottom line is that with Groups, you'll be able to have the kinds of conversations that you want to have. But on the main forums, we'll continue to disallow it. For one thing, it's really hard to draw a clear line where some stuff is "ok" but others are not. Everyone wants to push the line, and everyone's definition of that line differs. So we'll continue to make sure that the main forums do not contain that kind of content as much as possible.

killagb

Just like you asked for volunteers for mods, if there are other spots to help out MFP that are vo,unteer, why don't you post those also, there sees to be a pretty diverse group here, maybe there are other things you could delegate out to volunteers. Thanks again for creating this site.

Not a bad idea. I bet there are a few compute programmers out there that might be willing to spare some time just to help make a *like* button etc. LOL

Sorry, I like to get paid. :bigsmile:

Marla64

I think the groups with self-moderators are good idea. I don't get too easily offended... and I think it is sad that people cannot have open discussions on any topic.

You could also offer separate 'chit chat' forums with 'ratings' such as PG-17, G, etc. This way the parents that are in the living room with their kids are responsible for selecting a G rated forum.

Seriously I dont understand why if you ee a post that says bikin pics and you have a kid in the room you would still go into the thread if you have an issue with your kids seeing someone in a bikini
Thank you for trying to improve things I look forward to groups

I think things have gotten out of hand the last few weeks but by both sides of the "sex chat" isle. I am a firm believer that if you don't like something, you have the freedom to not partake. I think complaing about others partaking in sexual conversations but seeking them out is like saying you hate alcohol but show up at a bar and complain that beer is being served

^^^I agree with all of that.

Thanks so much for the site, Mike, and for doing your best to moderate. This place has become very important to me over the last 7 months or so. I love how it has helped me and all of the great people in my friends list. However, I think you and your mods have taken a very heavy hand in censoring things as of late. In your efforts to keep the site from changing, it is changing drastically in a different direction. I've lost great supportive and successful friends. People who meant a lot to me in my journey here. The fact of the matter is that we are all supposed to be adults here. Yes, sometimes adults are flirty and vulgar, but as long as that is kept in the chit-chat forum I don't see how anyone should be complaining about it. We have a choice to click or not click on a topic. We even have a choice to avoid the forums all together. No one is being forced to read offensive material. I think some people miss their days as high school hall monitor and want the other "kids" to stop having fun. As long as no one is being personally harassed abused, or stalked I think things should just be left alone. If someone does something that truly deserves moderating, warn them and delete that particular post. Unless the entire thread is just a train-wreck of truly offensive material, there is no need to delete the entire thread. You had said something earlier about how you want to make this a place where everyone can be comfortable all of the time. Well, it's just not possible to please everyone. Welcome to the wonderful world of the internet. It's a rough place, people. Put on your helmet and buckle up or turn off your computer and go watch Jay Leno.

I think as creator of the site, though, if the sexual innuendo is as bad as it seems from what I'm reading, he has every right to step in. Maybe that's not what he envisioned.

His site. His rules.

I lost a great friend here because he was brutally honest, had a sharp wit and even sharper tongue. He was rarely over the top with sexual innuendo, but definitely shared his opinions freely thus ticking off many, many (in my opinion super sensitive) people. He ended up getting the boot.

I didn't agree with the decision, but it's Mike's site. Mike's rules. He wants this, we do this. He wants that, we do that. We don't like it? We can go elsewhere.

albayin

wow, before reading this thread, I thought MFP was all nice and peaceful...

dutchess48

again, going down a slippery slope if you're going to ban someone for saying "you're an idiot for taking HCG.",

sorry but i respectfully disagree again.

I don't see how this is a debate. Calling someone an idiot is obviously disrespectful and unnecessarily. Unnecessary being the key there. You can make your point, and disagree just by saying that "taking HCG is not a good idea".... There is no reason for name calling.

I totally agree ! I am one of the people being attacked on this subject and I do mean attacked! Mean emails, friend request only to talk negatively to me. It's not ok. Were all adults, lets just act like it. We don't have to agree on everything but respect is a must. I support and do not judge others on this site so I expect the same. If there is a thread that you really don't agree with and or it's pro (whatever) thread that your not ok with then be an adult and just leave it alone. Bashing members is not the point. I don't know about you guys but I was bullied enough growing up because of my weight, so to find a site where I can talk about it openly was great. I would hate for that to be ruined by adult bashing.

ilookthetype

Mike,

I love the site, and I am so grateful for what you've given us, and that you're taking the time to discuss this with us.

Thanks for the update, I'm looking forward to the changes that you've mentioned being implemented.

SabrinaJL

I didn't agree with the decision, but it's Mike's site. Mike's rules. He wants this, we do this. He wants that, we do that. We don't like it? We can go elsewhere.

Word.

Mike

I think as creator of the site, though, if the sexual innuendo is as bad as it seems from what I'm reading, he has every right to step in. Maybe that's not what he envisioned.

His site. His rules.

I lost a great friend here because he was brutally honest, had a sharp wit and even sharper tongue. He was rarely over the top with sexual innuendo, but definitely shared his opinions freely thus ticking off many, many (in my opinion super sensitive) people. He ended up getting the boot.

I didn't agree with the decision, but it's Mike's site. Mike's rules. He wants this, we do this. He wants that, we do that. We don't like it? We can go elsewhere.

I wouldn't put it quite like that Marla. But there definitely is an environment we want to have on the main forums, and to create that environment, there will be things that are and aren't allowed. Some people won't like that - we know that's the case. And we know that there will be people who won't accept those restrictions and they'll either violate our rules (and eventually be banned) or they'll leave on their own.

We try to please as many people as we can, but we know we can't please everyone and we accept that. If as a result, MFP is not for you, then you may decide to leave which we regret. But we still need to do what we think is best for MyFitnessPal.

audigal2008

I think making groups is a fantastic idea. To be honest, it gets a little annoying with people using this website as something like facebook and focus mainly on the social aspect. While I am very much socially active on the site, I still use it as my main way of losing weight.

Another idea might be to have some sort of messenger where 2+ MFP'ers can chat just amongst themselves?

Thanks for all you do!

We're working on a very basic version of groups first, but we're thinking about adding chat in a future version so that group members could chat with one another. There's a lot we have to figure out first before we can make that happen, so I can't promise that chat will be available. But it's definitely something we are considering.

This site is amazing I love it! Thanks for that! Def need a chat option for sure! This site would be an absolute perfect 10 if that was available, IMO

EmpressOfJudgment

Marcia - I wrote a response above about my thoughts on "if you don't like it, don't click it". The bottom line is that with Groups, you'll be able to have the kinds of conversations that you want to have. But on the main forums, we'll continue to disallow it. For one thing, it's really hard to draw a clear line where some stuff is "ok" but others are not. Everyone wants to push the line, and everyone's definition of that line differs. So we'll continue to make sure that the main forums do not contain that kind of content as much as possible.

I don't envy your position at all, Mike. And I don't blame you at all, I hope you realize. I appreciate all you do and I imagine you have a big ol' headache about now. I just really wish people would lighten up. I like the groups idea. I also like the idea of an ignore and a block button. I also like the idea of putting all the conservative tattle-tales in a boat and shipping them to a deserted island without an internet connection. Oh wait, no one brought that up yet, did they? My bad.

FearAnLoathing

Who are the current moderators?

bry_all01

I, for one, am really excited about and looking forward to the groups. That will be awesome and I believe will eliminate so many of the issues. Again, you have done and are doing an amazing job, Mike. So, thank you, again!!!

brewingaz

Thanks Mike. I love the idea of groups. It's unfortunate that I couldn't even ask to be notified if a thread I posted was deleted without some individuals being out of line. I look forward to the groups function!

Mike

I don't envy your position at all, Mike. And I don't blame you at all, I hope you realize. I appreciate all you do and I imagine you have a big ol' headache about now. I just really wish people would lighten up. I like the groups idea. I also like the idea of an ignore and a block button. I also like the idea of putting all the conservative tattle-tales in a boat and shipping them to a deserted island without an internet connection. Oh wait, no one brought that up yet, did they? My bad.

Just for the record, for 95% of the deletions that occurred recently, there was no "tattle-tale". I think people assume that if a topic gets deleted, it was reported. Sometimes, that's true, and if you see something inappropriate happening on the site, you DEFINITELY should file a report so you can call it to our attention. But at least recently, almost all of the actions taken were done by me, without any reports being filed. I simply read the forums often and deleted the topics I felt were inappropriate or otherwise violated our rules.

And I don't like the notion that if someone reports a topic, they are a "tattle-tale". We need people to help us ensure the site retains the environment we want. It's impossible for us to read every post on the site, so we rely on people to help us. No one should be ashamed for doing that. By reporting posts, you're helping MyFitnessPal, and you're helping your other members by keeping the site the way it should be.

One last note: if you report a post, that doesn't mean we'll automatically do something about it. We read the report and make sure it actually violates a rule before we take any action. So even if there were someone who reported too many things, that doesn't mean there would actually be any impact to the site. We'd just dismiss the reports as invalid.

NeuroticVirgo

I think some of us Adults need to be reminded of things we should have learned as a child... lets start with Thumper shall we?



Just saying... drama can usually be avoided by being respectful to one another, it doesn't mean you can't have an opinion.

kr3851

Hi Mike!

I definitely appreciate this post!

Yesterday at work we had compulsory Bullying/Harassment training and it seemed an amazing coincidence. Whilst I haven't seen a lot of what went on yesterday/today as I'm 'lucky' enough to be on the other side of the world and miss most of what happens during the 'days' here, I seem to see all the backlash.

When I first started here, I didn't know about the rules, or about the FAQ threads. I would definitely have appreciated an inbox message when I first joined to explain this stuff - or at least where to find it.

Apart from that, I stick to the 'oops I don't like this thread I'm leaving' approach.

I love this site and totally appreciate what is done to keep it at no cost to us. I don't think making it paid would reduce anything - I think it would make it worse!! (I PAY to be here so I can say whatever the **** I want)

Thanks Mike (and all the mods) for your hard work!!!

kelley_lynn

So far, after reading, what you wrote Mike, congrats on admitting, there are problems, but that your working on them. Im a mod on a major *adult* site else where. And under stand growth and getting busy, keeping the site the way its been planned and still letting it grow. Its not easy.

Everything you have mentioned, i have to agree with others, is why i stay. And have been lucky enough not to see that many bad posts.. Until some one whines they have been deleted.

You and your team, have a great site. Im losing, after some major struggles, and long term, being a fat person.
And so are many others.

So i will thank you for that. Wish you great luck in getting the groups up. Im sure that will help even more.

BigBeaver

Well, I don't know why I am posting here, I love MFP, I do, it and the many FRIENDS I have made here have helped me lose the 60 lbs I have lost. I do hate the drama. I know I should refrain from commenting on here, cause I know I have stirred up my fair share of controversey in the forumns, as Mike and I have had conversations through PM on what the rules state.

However, I do disagree about some things. This just isn't a weightloss sight, it is a SOCIAL weightloss NETWORKING site. Why are those words capitalized, because that is how I feel. People flock to this site (Btw Mike, thanks for making it free, I may have never used it and had my sucesses had it cost money) to find LIKE-MINDED people struggling with the same problems they are suffering with, so it does become social and a network. I live in TX but I think I have friends all over the US, and across the pond too! Ones that are going through the same issues with weightloss. Sure, some of the threads can get out of hand.

But those threads aren't usually posted in the serious sections, they are in the Chit-chat and fun. However, I am not going to stir the pot and whatever.

Mike--I do agree the groups is a great idea, you discussed this with me months ago via PM, when I became a rules "offender", so I hope that they do become a reality, that would be awesome. Until then, most likely this will be my last thread post.

Thanks for a great Free site.