How Do You Feel About The Flu Shot?

M3CH4N1C

Go to healthnews.com with Mike Adams and search for "flu shots". You'll find plenty of counter research that suggests flu shots are harmful, unproven, and dangerous. In fact one study shows influenza shots were effective in 1.5 out of 100. Big pharma claims much higher than that at around 60%.

I went to healthnews.com and searched for "flu shots" as you directed. All I found were articles on 1) the CDC urging people (particularly health care workers) to get flu shots, 2) a survey stating that most US doctors plan to get them, 3) research stating that flu shots are safe for pregnant women and that they provide benefits to the baby as well, 4) research showing a connection between flu shots and reduced risk of heart attack in the elderly, 5) research into a 'universal' flu shot that people would only have to get once instead of seasonally.

In fact, from your own recommended site, I also found a study that showed that the effectiveness of the flu vaccine ranged from 63-84%:
"Over six months, 42 Optaflu recipients -- or 1.1 percent of the group -- reported flu-like symptoms and had a flu infection confirmed by objective testing. That figure was 1.3 percent in the conventional-vaccine group and 3.6 percent in the placebo group. Overall, the cell-based vaccine was 84 percent effective against the three flu strains included in the shot, versus the placebo; the conventional vaccine was 78 percent effective. When it came to all circulating flu strains for the season, both vaccines, predictably, were less effective: the cell-based shot was 69 percent effective, compared with the placebo, and the conventional vaccine 63 percent." http://www.healthnews.com/en/news/Newer-flu-vaccine-as-effective-as-traditional-one/1ZYA3fssX9iAU$vEwA50Sz/

So, I think I'm done here.

Oh I meant naturalnews.com. Sorry.

Sigh. Okay I'll bite one last time. I assume you're referencing http://www.naturalnews.com/033998_influenza_vaccines_effectiveness.html, which is referencing http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(11)70295-X/fulltext.

Your article is trying to make something sensational about the distinction between ABSOLUTE and RELATIVE risk reduction, and conflating it with efficacy. There's nothing shocking here. Yes, the absolute risk reduction of the flu vaccine, for people who were actually exposed to influenza during the season they were vaccinated, is about 1.5 per 100. But the size of the pooled studies is sufficiently large that we can assume that roughly equal numbers were exposed to the virus in both groups (2.7%, based on the control group. That's the whole PURPOSE of the control group - to know what the prevalence is in the population, because it's fairly unethical to deliberately infect people with influenza). The relative risk reduction is therefore roughly 60% - meaning you have a 60% less chance of contracting the flu with the vaccine than without. The vaccine is 60% EFFECTIVE at preventing influenza (the Lancet article says 59%).

But risk is meaningless unless we look at both sides of the coin. For every million people we vaccinate, we will have 15,000 fewer cases of the flu and approximately 4 vaccine-induced injuries (allergic reaction, Guillain-Barré syndrome, and encephalomyelitis). For every 100 vaccine induced injuries, there will be approximately 6 deaths. So we would have to vaccinate 25M people to statistically have 100 vaccine-induced injuries and 6 deaths. But we will have prevented 375,000 cases of influenza and 375 influenza-related deaths (seasonal influenza has a mortality rate of 0.1%). The flu vaccine is therefore 63,000% safer than the flu.

I've provided actual numbers, instead of all of your made-up numbers.

All my made up numbers. Africans that are in the sun for up to 15 hrs. a day, 365 days a year. Those are the only numbers I've brought, besides quoting naturalnews.com. I haven't made anything up. Seems as though what you are judging me of, is only to condemn yourself.

CMKnutson

As a high priority asthmatic, i have to get a flu shot every year. but there is a few alternatives to the traditional flu shot. A better known alternative is called FluMist. Research it, it is spelled without any spaces FluMist. It is a nasal spray it is usually in good supply even when there is a shortage of flu shots. There are some limitations such as you have to be a healthy person between the ages of 2 and 49. It can also be more expensive and some insurance companies don't pay for it. In other words you should talk to your doctor, there may be some more alternatives. Just look around, at the worst you get the shot that takes approx. 2minutes and leaves you arm sore for a day at most.

agthorn

Sigh. Okay I'll bite one last time. I assume you're referencing http://www.naturalnews.com/033998_influenza_vaccines_effectiveness.html, which is referencing http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(11)70295-X/fulltext.

Your article is trying to make something sensational about the distinction between ABSOLUTE and RELATIVE risk reduction, and conflating it with efficacy. There's nothing shocking here. Yes, the absolute risk reduction of the flu vaccine, for people who were actually exposed to influenza during the season they were vaccinated, is about 1.5 per 100. But the size of the pooled studies is sufficiently large that we can assume that roughly equal numbers were exposed to the virus in both groups (2.7%, based on the control group. That's the whole PURPOSE of the control group - to know what the prevalence is in the population, because it's fairly unethical to deliberately infect people with influenza). The relative risk reduction is therefore roughly 60% - meaning you have a 60% less chance of contracting the flu with the vaccine than without. The vaccine is 60% EFFECTIVE at preventing influenza (the Lancet article says 59%).

But risk is meaningless unless we look at both sides of the coin. For every million people we vaccinate, we will have 15,000 fewer cases of the flu and approximately 4 vaccine-induced injuries (allergic reaction, Guillain-Barré syndrome, and encephalomyelitis). For every 100 vaccine induced injuries, there will be approximately 6 deaths. So we would have to vaccinate 25M people to statistically have 100 vaccine-induced injuries and 6 deaths. But we will have prevented 375,000 cases of influenza and 375 influenza-related deaths (seasonal influenza has a mortality rate of 0.1%). The flu vaccine is therefore 63,000% safer than the flu.

I've provided actual numbers, instead of all of your made-up numbers.

All my made up numbers. Africans that are in the sun for up to 15 hrs. a day, 365 days a year. Those are the only numbers I've brought, besides quoting naturalnews.com. I haven't made anything up. Seems as though what you are judging me of, is only to condemn yourself.

So for every 100 adults you injected with this flu vaccine, you prevent the flu in 1.5 of them, but you cause a neurological disorder in 7.5 of them! This means you are 500% more likely to be harmed by the flu vaccine than helped by it. (A theoretical example only. This study did not contain statistics on the harm of vaccines.)

Made up numbers.

African Americans have one of the highest rates of skin cancer in America

Made up statistic.

Real statistics: Death rate from influenza = 0.1%. Death rate from influenza vaccine = 0.000024%.

hoppinglark

I've read that children are more likely to be hospitalized in later years than their peers who never had the shot. I've also read that people who have had five flu shots in ten years increase their risk of getting Alzheimers ten times.

Citation?
Seem like I've read the exact oppisite..need to look that up.
http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_myths_about_alzheimers.asp

Think about it. Vaccines became more common, swine flu emerged.

And when people ate more Ice Cream, more kids got polio, IT MUST HAVE been the cause!
Swine Flu has been around for a long time, we've known about it, this last fear was about H1N1, the fear was that pigs in the pacific rim had become incubators and created a bird flu-swine flu- human flu chimera.
One that we as people would have had no experience fighting and thus no herd immunity what so ever.

There are antibiotics in the flu shot.

just enough to keep bugs from growing in transit.
I doubt it would make a difference when such a small single dose is administered into your body.

On a side note I would just like to say the Mike Adams, Dr. Mercola and those like them tend to be sensationalist nut jobs.

I remember looking into Mike Adams $10,000.00 challenge, I figured that hey if I was going to compete for $10,000.00 I bet I could train for a year and out perform anyone, then I read up on the rules, the list of the 8 types of Pharmaceutical agents you'd have to be on , are not compatible and you're not supposed to be on an antibiotic for that long. So It's almost like he's an evil genius that knows that he can put out a $10,000.00 challenge and no one will have be able to take him up on it because no one would be allowed to take those 8 types of meds, at the same time for an entire year.

AmythistRae

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://healthfreedoms.org/2011/10/14/big-study-vaccinated-kids-2-5-more-diseases-than-unvaccinated/&h=WAQFdWHXgAQGFdlK26MDmKyCKHLcgQCgq15k_E7CpBbaKtg

I have never believed in any type of Vaccination because our bodies are built if we take care of it properly to withstand and protect itself....I have never gotten a flu shot...

AmythistRae

my good friend a nurse got her flu shots and two weeks ago got the flu from my granddaughter way worse than I did..

LabRat529

Never mind I should probably read the whole thread before I chime in. Someone's already made my point... I think... I'm still reading.

RunningAddict

I get one every year and would get one even if my employer did not ask me to get one or provide the shot. However, you should be able to sign a declination statement and may have to watch a video if you do not want to get the flu shot. The flu shot is much easier to get than the flu, just my 2 cents. :flowerforyou:

Nope, won't work here. Our employer rewrote their policy ( It was handed to me by the director on paper) so it is now part of the policy that if you don't take the shot they have the right to terminate you- I'm not overdoing it at all. You will seriously lose your job. I was one of the last to get it and the reason I did was because my Director started emailing me because the records showed that I hadn't had it done.
There is only one way out and that is with a statement from your doctor on letterhead dated signed stating that you should not take the shot due to allergies and so forth....Only problem for me was that my doctor is afilliated but for the most part no doctor is not going to tell you not to take it because they are mostly for it unless you do truely have an allergy to something in it.

you may be able to claim religious exemption?? whether or not you are religious, your employer can't prove or disprove that; and not allowing one to practice their religious beliefs is discrimination. maybe a church could sign a document for you???

::edit:: being forced to have anything injected into your body against your will is WACK. :sick: suffering the flu is pretty rotten, but chances are you won't get it next season... take your vitamin D and strengthen your immune system by eating right. What's your employer going to mandate next????? *shudder*

Yes, I am religious, can't say I lead the best life but I never even thought of this....Hmmmmm....I really should ask about this!

fteale

How much do you pay for it over in the States? I should be eligible to get mine free on the NHS here, but I went to a private chemist this time (Sainsburys pharmacy, actually!) and it was about £7. Is it more over there?

M3CH4N1C

Real statistics: Death rate from influenza = 0.1%. Death rate from influenza vaccine = 0.000024%.

Real numbers from corrupt research maybe. Besides there is more to worry about than death with these vaccines. Hecks, if you only died then they wouldn't be half bad.

RunningAddict

How much do you pay for it over in the States? I should be eligible to get mine free on the NHS here, but I went to a private chemist this time (Sainsburys pharmacy, actually!) and it was about £7. Is it more over there?

I get mine free. I think the norm in the pharmacy is about 25$. also almost all types of insurance will cover the price too.

Elizabeth_C34

How much do you pay for it over in the States? I should be eligible to get mine free on the NHS here, but I went to a private chemist this time (Sainsburys pharmacy, actually!) and it was about £7. Is it more over there?

I get mine free also through my employer.

summalovaable

Real statistics: Death rate from influenza = 0.1%. Death rate from influenza vaccine = 0.000024%.

Real numbers from corrupt research maybe. Besides there is more to worry about than death with these vaccines. Hecks, if you only died then they wouldn't be half bad.

I'm sorry to intervene, but : LOL.

You've taken every potential logical and factual point and turned it into a "the world is out to get us, don't trust anyone" piece of information. You can't prove a point by saying it hasn't been disproven, you can't use religious belief as defense (there are too many, and its too skeptical a field to be discussed rationally in any form of debate) If you don't trust the flu shot, don't get it. But stop pretending we live in a world where everyone with an education or in higher power is out to get you. Not that there aren't people like that, but it isnt everyone.


With that being said, I don't feel I have anything more to add about the flu shot that hasn't been said at least once in these past 14 or so pages. If you trust it, get it. If you don't trust it, don't get it. Any other points are basically moot as it won't change anything, or likely any one else's opinion.

M3CH4N1C

I'm sorry to intervene, but : LOL.

You've taken every potential logical and factual point and turned it into a "the world is out to get us, don't trust anyone" piece of information. You can't prove a point by saying it hasn't been disproven, you can't use religious belief as defense (there are too many, and its too skeptical a field to be discussed rationally in any form of debate) If you don't trust the flu shot, don't get it. But stop pretending we live in a world where everyone with an education or in higher power is out to get you. Not that there aren't people like that, but it isnt everyone.


With that being said, I don't feel I have anything more to add about the flu shot that hasn't been said at least once in these past 14 or so pages. If you trust it, get it. If you don't trust it, don't get it. Any other points are basically moot as it won't change anything, or likely any one else's opinion.

I've taken points that many people stand by and presented them, thats all. If you don't like it then fine by me. And I'm not pretending to live in a world where people are out to get me. I'm saying we live in a world where people have educations, and are really stupid idiots that lack any real wisdom. There are people all over the world that agree, even on this forum.:sick:

M3CH4N1C

This is how corrupt the multi-billion dollar vaccine industry is. Since nobody seems to believe me, you can see and hear it for yourself at the link below. The quotations are from words out of Bill Gates mouth, who has donated hundreds of millions of dollars to vaccine research.



"The world today has 6.8 billion people... that's headed up to about 9 billion. Now if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent."

You can watch this yourself at:
http://www.naturalnews.tv/v.asp?v=A...

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/029911_vaccines_Bill_Gates.html#ixzz1djzjpGpJ

SueGremlin

I think you ought to read more science and less opinion.

M3CH4N1C

I think you ought to read more science and less opinion.

I think you should open up your eyes. People are occupying wall street, not sesame street. These are real events happening in the world right now,

vger11

per GettingFit4Me2011

I was mainly forced into taking the flu shot,. Work is charging more money for medical insurance if you do not take a flu shot and did not have your blood work done to check for fats in your blood. They also charge more if you are a smoker.

After all this.....just go ahead a take the flu shot. The next issues I believe will be weight issues where they charge more on medical insurance.

I couldn't agree with you more...unfortunately, I can see their point. If I were an employer, I would more than consider the above...thank goodness I'm of no importance :huh:

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RunningAddict

So, I've attempted to keep myself away from this thread, as I tend to like to play the devil's advocate, which can be annoying. However, can I just say....that despite all the bickering back and forth, you guys have all provided some really good info as far as pros and cons. So. Thank you. Thank you for the scientific perspective, thank you for the opinionated perspective, pros and cons. I've been putting a lot of thought into this subject, as the time is coming for me to have to justify walking around work with a mask for the next 4 months.

For me, it just boils down to two things.
1. Crap that I MIGHT not need being injected into my body.
2. Being so pressured by my employer to be vaccinated.

I don't appreciate having healthcare decisions made for me.
And I will be wearing a mask, not going around breathing and spitting and slobbering and snotting on people.
Maybe I will feel differently next year....but probably not.

I agree! I have enjoyed hearing the different sides of this issue. Argueing is never good but I do appreciate all the info here. Thanks everyone!

Jexebel

Okay didn't read all the pages but....

They work on next years flu because flu is (in general) seasonal and is most prevalent during the fall/winter (flu season). So the flu strains they have going around in the southern hemishpere during their winter will be the strains (more or less) that will be around in the northern hemisphere's flu season.

There are not billions of strains of influenza but yes there are many and influenza does have the capacity to mutate and become vaccine resistant.

Which brings me to what most people don't understand about vaccination. Yes vaccination prevents you from getting sick (if the vaccine if effective). But for something like influenza, most of the population (with the exception of elderly or immunocompromised individuals) can be infected with the flu, get sick and clear the infection with no real problems. What the vaccination does, if everybody is vaccinated is stops the infection from spreading to people who are unable to clear the infection efficiently. Also, because influenza is so prone to mutating, the less people it is able to infect and replicate the LESS it will mutate and the LESS chance there will be of some pandemic form popping up somewhere. So not getting vaccinated may be ok for the individual, but from the perspective of the virus, it has made a few more million copies and had a few more million chances to mutate to something more serious than just the flu.

As for being forced to take the flu shot, I don't see a problem with it. It's not to protect your own health but the whole workplace's health.

Okay I read the first three pages of comments on this....

First and foremost I would like to say I am in favor of vaccines, but I'm also a statistics girl.....and nobody has brought this point up in the first three pages of comments I read so hopefully I am not repeating what someone else has said.

The single reason I do not get a flu shot is that they start working on NEXT YEARS flu shot, RIGHT NOW! Okay now I'm sorry but I have a degree in Medical Laboratory Technology. I'm not stupid, I work with Doctors, nurses, the elderly and the sick. But you can not tell me that the folks in the laboratory at the CDC can predict the flu that will strike next year, when the weather man can't accurately predict the weather all the time.

Here's the deal they take the most likely 20 strains of flu that they think will hit next year based off of numbers and calculations from statisiticians and mathematical wizzes and say "Use these 20, to make your shot"

Sorry there are billions of strains of the flu and they mutate and genetically code themselves overs so they are more resistant. So no thank you I will not take a flu shot when there is NO real statistical chance that the "20 strains" they picked are going to be the one of the billions strains of the flu that could be going around next year.

Sorry I'm not gonna do that and no I'm not a granola person. I just think that if you want to not catch the flu, eat properly, stay hydrated, get plenty of rest, stay away from sick people, wash your hands and don't touch your face. If you are sick with the sniffles, a cough or cold or anything else for GOODNESS sakes for everyone else STAY HOME!

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M3CH4N1C

http://vran.org/in-the-news/can-we-trust-them/



This is an article that shows possible corruptions between the CDC, FDA, the 1% elite. Seems as though anything that has to do with the 1% is not to be trusted unless proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that goes for any kind of vaccines. It's an excellent web site for all kinds of vaccine information.

valeriebpdx

I had never had one before but I am in nursing school now and they make us get one. I probably would have continued to not get them if left to my own devices, but not worth getting worked up over, IMO.

calibri

I get one every year; I haven't had any issues and remain mysteriously well the whole flu season. I don't know or care if it is the shot or just my hygiene habits (I wash my hands about 30 times a day); I don't want to change a variable and then be sick, so it works for me.

LeBlackstone

http://vran.org/in-the-news/can-we-trust-them/



This is an article that shows possible corruptions between the CDC, FDA, the 1% elite. Seems as though anything that has to do with the 1% is not to be trusted unless proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that goes for any kind of vaccines. It's an excellent web site for all kinds of vaccine information.

Jexebel

I'm no expert but just the way this website is written tells me its written by people who don't know a whole lot about vaccination and immunology.
"and being part of a loving family all contribute to freedom from disease of any kind" -lol what?
"Any immunity provided by a vaccine wanes over time" - wrong.
Also they are defending Wakefield? Any respectable scientist knows this guy is a fraud.
But hey, can't convince 'em all.

http://vran.org/in-the-news/can-we-trust-them/



This is an article that shows possible corruptions between the CDC, FDA, the 1% elite. Seems as though anything that has to do with the 1% is not to be trusted unless proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that goes for any kind of vaccines. It's an excellent web site for all kinds of vaccine information.

dalgirly

In my opinion, if you don't really ever deal with young children, elderly or those who are immunocompromised then don't bother with it.

As a nurse, I am not forced to get it... but I do get it so that I am not spreading it to someone who could be killed by it.

Unknown

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aquarianpixi

I am lucky in my job that I get all my immunizations for free if I choose, but I would be really put out if I was forced to take them.

I don't really care for the flue shot. Every time I get one I am sick as a dog for at least 3 days afterwords. This was the first year I have gotten one in a long while because of how ill I feel afterwords, just to test the theory. Again, I was well before and sick within hours after. Probably won't do it again next year.

This is just my experiences with them. I know a lot of people that suffer no ill effects from them.