I'm confused weight lifting/cardio/muscle question...
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I'm currently eating at 1000 calorie deficit in order to lose 2lb per week and have been doing so since May. I do 4 days strength training per week but for the past few months have noticed next to no no muscular gains. I have been coming down in body fat/scale weight but my strength doesn't seem to have increased one bit for the last 3 months or so as I am still lifting same weight for each exercise and struggling to go any higher. Like most are saying in this thread, I am putting this down to the large calorie deficit and resulting reduction in body fat/muscle mass.
So if one can't build muscle whilst eating at a calorie deficit, how about when in maintenance? is it possible to build muscle whilst maintaining or can it only be done when eating a calorie surplus?
Where is my :::SLAP::: button?
1k calories is close to sillyness!0 -
Here is a great article http://www.simplyshredded.com/layne-norton-the-most-effective-cutting-diet.html - that's my coach... Basically, eat enough protein and fats for your level of lean mass and fill in the rest of your caloric needs with carbs. Find out what maintainence is for you and deduct the carb numbers that will help you lose weight. I can go on and on about the process of testing "what" does "what" to your body and the optimal macronutrient composition for you, but again, testing to see what does what to your body takes some time.
I'm still learning to test to see what's optimal. I will say one thing, when you get your metabolism functioning optimally, you can increase your carb allowance to 500 grams so the next time you diet on say 200-250 grams it's high enough where you can still eat and have fun and not starve yourself too badly. I remember the days of eating 30-90 grams of carbs a day - that was not fun at all. No one knows hell, until they've been on an extremely low-carb diet
Now that my metabolism is on fire (thanks to my coach) I'm at about 375 grams per day and I'm not putting on any weight. He figures I'll top out at 400-500 grams somewhere, I think closer to 500 grams, which is about 2000 calories from carbs only. This is fun!!!
In short, I didn't gain the weight back and I went from as low as 30grams to 375 grams, but it took time and Layne meticulously and methodically increased it and other macronutrient variables that "tries" to optimize my metabolism. Simply put, he just tells me how much of carbs/fat/protein to eat and it's up to me to figure it out and eat the foods that will hit those macros.
Now I sit at 177-180 and I'm leaner NOW than I was at 175. Doesn't sound like a lot but, the 2-3 lbs I've gain has totally changed the way I look.
Layne and I compared how I looked at 178lbs at two different points in time spaced roughly 3 months a part and visually I look so different. The last time I was 178lbs when I was dieting down and through that number I was flat, and relatively flabby. And the more recent photo of me at 178lbs I'm bigger and much leaner (much leaner). So what ever it is he's doing, it's working.
Check out my post on blood test and my triglyceride numbers, it's low for someone eating the amount of carbs I'm eating, and my cholesterol - damn. It's like I'm 18 again!!! 110 cholesterol with HDL/LDL ratio that's almost double what is considered "good" I have the metabolism of a marathon runner my physician saids, but the ironic thing is I only do cardio 2x per week :bigsmile:
So I think it's finding the optimal amount of diet and exercise. Now what "is" optimal is different for different people I guess. There are some guys like Alberto Nunez (google him) that can diet on 400grams of carbs per day and refeeds on 1000 grams of carbs. I don't think I will ever get there. He's 5'9" and competes at 160lbs as a natural bodybuilder. And then there's my coach, Layne Norton, who when dieting has to get as low as 100-150 grams dieting for a show. Layne, I believe, competes at 196 lbs at 5'10". They might not sound "huge" but if you google them, they are massive because they are at those weights literally with no fat on their persons....
I hope this helps,
N
I admire Layne Norton, but I'm going to bet that although he claims being natural, there's some enhancement going on. It's so rare to find naturals that have always been naturals their whole life and compete at such a high level.He gained weight(assuming muscle for how cut he is) and leaned out at the same time. But to qualify, he's paying 10x more attention to his nutriution than most of us.
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
You increased your strength, which can definitely be done without adding muscle. You lost fat and muscle was more defined.Sorry - dont agree - I was the most out of shape person with absolutely no strenght at all - I could not lift 3kg dumbells - now I am lifting 18kg's......There was no friggin muscles - and lots of fat - I have lost lots of fat yes - but I have also built muscle - which was not there to start with - and my trainer that has also been in the business for 15 years plus agrees with me - he has seen the progress we have made from day 1 to now.....
If your trainer agrees then he is disagreeing with peer reviewed clinical studies done by ACSM, Journal of Sports Medicine, Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, New England Journal of Medicine. I'm more apt to believe actual scientific evidence than anecdotal.
Though you disagree, it's hard to deny what's been actually proven by science.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Fat can't be used to rebuild muscle. Only protein does that.Just hypothetically, if you digest a pound of your own fat then theoretically you have 3600 calories processing in your body. Is it possible that some of that could be used to repair/build muscle? I know that it is far fetched but it seems theoretically posible. Therefore, the law of thermodynamics is not 'broken'. Just an idea....
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Disagree. Muscle builds on recovery day, not during lifting. To build muscle you are GAINING weight. To gain a pound of muscle, you will also gain .3lbs or more of fat with it. This is not disputed by science with the exception of the newbie, the obese/very overweight beginner, and athlete returning after a long layoff and even then the muscle attained is minimal.At the 8th rep of each set, if that muscle group is exhausted, then you will build muscle even as you are losing weight. You have probably used the predictive method to determine your one repetition maximum. NEVER EVER START TOO HEAVY AND REDUCE PLATES TO DETERMINE ONE REPETITION MAXIMUM BECAUSE THAT IS EXTREMELY UNSAFE. Use the predictive method. Then, select 80% of that one repetition maximum and do your sets with that weight. This will help you. Coach S.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Well he didn't gain 2 pounds eating at a calorie deficit. Unless it was water weight from majorly increasing carbs. That is physically impossible.
According to him he did. Read the thread and ask him
[/quote]I like Layne Norton, but I don't really adhere to a lot he writes about. He writes articles in Muscular Development (my favorite mag) but some of the articles I've read didn't measure up to actual scientific evidence. Some of his articles are spot on, but I don't think that this one is.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Adding pound of muscle is adding a pound to your bodyweight. To add weight you eat over maintenance.I'm currently eating at 1000 calorie deficit in order to lose 2lb per week and have been doing so since May. I do 4 days strength training per week but for the past few months have noticed next to no no muscular gains. I have been coming down in body fat/scale weight but my strength doesn't seem to have increased one bit for the last 3 months or so as I am still lifting same weight for each exercise and struggling to go any higher. Like most are saying in this thread, I am putting this down to the large calorie deficit and resulting reduction in body fat/muscle mass.
So if one can't build muscle whilst eating at a calorie deficit, how about when in maintenance? is it possible to build muscle whilst maintaining or can it only be done when eating a calorie surplus?
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
He also gained muscle going from 175lbs to about 177lbs. While already pretty lean.
Not to mention he was training at a calorie deficit the entire time(according to him)
Well he didn't gain 2 pounds eating at a calorie deficit. Unless it was water weight from majorly increasing carbs. That is physically impossible.
According to him he did. Read the thread and ask him
Like RonSwanson said, I don't really care if he said he did. You cannot eat less calories than your body requires to maintain weight and actually gain weight, beyond temporary water weight. He's either lying, mistaken, or your misunderstanding him. The laws of thermodynamics still apply. Even an overweight noob who gains mass in the beginning is doing it because the body is burning enough excess fat for him to be at a net calorie surplus, even if he is technically eating at a deficit. Again, that only happens with large amounts of body fat. When you get to low body fat levels, (about 10% or less,) that doesn't happen. Your body requires fat to function, and will not willingly give fat up to build muscle, muscle is a lower priority than fat when it comes to deciding what to keep and what to lose, due to fat's many endocrine and body temperature regulation functions.
So if he claims to be eating at a calorie defect and gaining weight, then he's lying. Or, he's mistaken, and his TDEE is actually lower than he thinks it is (which is more likely.) You can only gain weight if you eat more calories than you burn. Your body can't create something out of nothing.0 -
Disagree. Muscle builds on recovery day, not during lifting. To build muscle you are GAINING weight. To gain a pound of muscle, you will also gain .3lbs or more of fat with it. This is not disputed by science with the exception of the newbie, the obese/very overweight beginner, and athlete returning after a long layoff and even then the muscle attained is minimal.At the 8th rep of each set, if that muscle group is exhausted, then you will build muscle even as you are losing weight. You have probably used the predictive method to determine your one repetition maximum. NEVER EVER START TOO HEAVY AND REDUCE PLATES TO DETERMINE ONE REPETITION MAXIMUM BECAUSE THAT IS EXTREMELY UNSAFE. Use the predictive method. Then, select 80% of that one repetition maximum and do your sets with that weight. This will help you. Coach S.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I'm now seeing the 7:3 ratio on muscle to fat build.
I thought it was a 5:5 Ratio until the 4th week.
Then I measured up and sure enough!
Then again i'm eating 20% over TDEE.
No cardio and only lifting.0 -
He also gained muscle going from 175lbs to about 177lbs. While already pretty lean.
Not to mention he was training at a calorie deficit the entire time(according to him)
Well he didn't gain 2 pounds eating at a calorie deficit. Unless it was water weight from majorly increasing carbs. That is physically impossible.
According to him he did. Read the thread and ask him
Like RonSwanson said, I don't really care if he said he did. You cannot eat less calories than your body requires to maintain weight and actually gain weight, beyond temporary water weight. He's either lying, mistaken, or your misunderstanding him. The laws of thermodynamics still apply. Even an overweight noob who gains mass in the beginning is doing it because the body is burning enough excess fat for him to be at a net calorie surplus, even if he is technically eating at a deficit. Again, that only happens with large amounts of body fat. When you get to low body fat levels, (about 10% or less,) that doesn't happen. Your body requires fat to function, and will not willingly give fat up to build muscle, muscle is a lower priority than fat when it comes to deciding what to keep and what to lose, due to fat's many endocrine and body temperature regulation functions.
So if he claims to be eating at a calorie defect and gaining weight, then he's lying. Or, he's mistaken, and his TDEE is actually lower than he thinks it is (which is more likely.) You can only gain weight if you eat more calories than you burn. Your body can't create something out of nothing.
Then go ahead and chime in his thread and make that claim. I've asked this probably 5-6 times. yet no one has been in there to ask him that question. Gee I wonder why? I asked him questions, why don't you?0 -
Because I really don't care enough about one man's claims. It's not that important to me what he believes. Why are you so obsessed with his one story, that you blatantly ignore all actual science and fact?
Do you dispute that you cannot create something out of nothing? Do you believe that the human body can magically create more mass out of thin air? Just use some logical, critical thinking.0 -
I'm currently eating at 1000 calorie deficit in order to lose 2lb per week and have been doing so since May. I do 4 days strength training per week but for the past few months have noticed next to no no muscular gains. I have been coming down in body fat/scale weight but my strength doesn't seem to have increased one bit for the last 3 months or so as I am still lifting same weight for each exercise and struggling to go any higher. Like most are saying in this thread, I am putting this down to the large calorie deficit and resulting reduction in body fat/muscle mass.
So if one can't build muscle whilst eating at a calorie deficit, how about when in maintenance? is it possible to build muscle whilst maintaining or can it only be done when eating a calorie surplus?
I'm correcting myself on the 1k thing...I though you were eating 1k. Sry!
And probably not with the maintenance question.
Strength yes!
Mass no!0 -
Because I really don't care enough about one man's claims. It's not that important to me what he believes. Why are you so obsessed with his one story, that you blatantly ignore all actual science and fact?
Do you dispute that you cannot create something out of nothing? Do you believe that the human body can magically create more mass out of thin air? Just use some logical, critical thinking.
Why are so obsessed at this? It an intesting story. And it appears to buck the common thought about building muscle while on a very slight deficit. Why would he be creating mass of of thin air if he's body fat has been going down and he's weight weight slightly up?
Here's a thought, ASK HIM. Is the human body creating mass out thin air when an high BF% person gains muscle while lifting on a deficit? Instead of actually asking him, you're going to continue the standard line here. Ask him and call him out. After all, he LYING to all of us right? You don't have a problem confronting me. Why not confront him?0 -
It would take forever to see any results.
Short bulk/cut phases will show way better results in half the time.
Or
LeanGains!
Give yourself 2 years for a full recomp!0 -
I'm currently eating at 1000 calorie deficit in order to lose 2lb per week and have been doing so since May. I do 4 days strength training per week but for the past few months have noticed next to no no muscular gains. I have been coming down in body fat/scale weight but my strength doesn't seem to have increased one bit for the last 3 months or so as I am still lifting same weight for each exercise and struggling to go any higher. Like most are saying in this thread, I am putting this down to the large calorie deficit and resulting reduction in body fat/muscle mass.
So if one can't build muscle whilst eating at a calorie deficit, how about when in maintenance? is it possible to build muscle whilst maintaining or can it only be done when eating a calorie surplus?
I'm correcting myself on the 1k thing...I though you were eating 1k. Sry!
And probably not with the maintenance question.
Strength yes!
Mass no!
Ha! yeah I meant 1k below maintenance to lose 2lb per week, not actually 1k calories. I shall be posting a thread regarding the calorie thing shortly as I'm not too sure MFP has set the right calorie goal for me.
Thanks0 -
Ha! yeah I meant 1k below maintenance to lose 2lb per week, not actually 1k calories. I shall be posting a thread regarding the calorie thing shortly as I'm not too sure MFP has set the right calorie goal for me.
Thanks
Dude! You should come to the darkside!
I have a group of friends who are losing weight while eating closer to 2k calories a day.
You lose mostly Body Fat%!
Send me a friend request and i'll get you started!0 -
Why would he be creating mass of of thin air if he's body fat has been going down and he's weight weight slightly up?
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.0 -
Why would he be creating mass of of thin air if he's body fat has been going down and he's weight weight slightly up?
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Did you read the last paragraph of your own quoted article?0 -
Why would he be creating mass of of thin air if he's body fat has been going down and he's weight weight slightly up?
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Did you read the last paragraph of your own quoted article?
That's not what it says at all. You really need to work on your reading comprehension.0 -
So much broscience in this thread....
Just listen to ninerbuff he knows what he is talking about.0
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