80/10/10--I'm doing it!

thisismeraw

"Not really. Most of us are just compassionate people who advocate for nonviolence. People who are doing plant-based diets or advocate for it for (misguided) health reasons seriously need to stop hijacking the word "vegan.""

I can completely see vegetarians as compassionate and nonviolent but I don't understand vegan. One thing that has always bothered me is eggs, what does it hurt to eat eggs? Hens lay eggs, they always will, the ones shipped to stores are unfertilized, which is just part of the hen's natural life cycle... how does it hurt any animal to eat them?

I think the egg thing is due to the chicken being at a farm, there to lay eggs for sale and consumption. I could be wrong or vegans may have another view of it.

holothuroidea

The 'tool' of science, however, does not now and never has supported veganism. That's what I'm saying. Never. Ever. Not clinical trials and not epidemiological studies.

I don't really understand what you're getting at here. What about veganism do you believe needs to be supported by clinical trials/epidemiological studies?

Um what? I'm not making the claim, regarding eating animals and violence, you are. Please prove YOUR "vegan fact" lol.

You have a choice. You can eat something that requires you to kill an animal, or you can eat the same amount and quality of nutrients from plant sources. (Barring, of course, some magical mystery meat vitamin... which has never been proven to exist).

If you choose to kill animals instead of eating plants, that's an act of violence. If you've ever killed an animal yourself (I have), you'll understand that.

This is not something we need to use science to prove.

First, i never said that "not eating animals" is required for health, did I? However those that eat no animal products for any length of time do need an external source of B12.

B12 is made by bacteria, not animals. It's very possible to get natural sources of B12 on a vegan diet. However, having to supplement with B12 does not mean that a vegan diet cannot be healthy.

Veganism is decidedly unnatural, humans are behaviorally omnivores. It's unnatural for us to refuse any valid food source. Your appeals to nature are going to fall on deaf ears with me. I don't care if veganism isn't natural, that doesn't negate why I do it.

I've presented several articles based in the studies, and the science, you've presented an "anti-BS" arguments, which is completely nonsensical. If you dispute the science or anything I've said, please show me logically and/or scientifically - with facts to back it up - where I'm wrong.

I already said I appreciated the debunking of The China Study, the articles you linked to have good points. Good points swimming in a sea of misinformation that needs debunking in and of itself.

What exactly is it that you want me to show you? That WAPF is biased and full of misinformation? Do you want me to go through all your sources and tell you all the things on THOSE websites that stand to be debunked?

I never challenged what you said. I just stated that your sources were biased and full of crap. That doesn't make the The China Study any less debunked.

runner_gurl76

80/10/10 is a raw vegan diet fad...I will just politely say that setting percentages for macros doesn't work and that this diet highly ignores the fact that protein and fat are ESSENTIAL nutrients whereas carbohydrates are non-essential and should be determined based on physical activity.

These type of dieters do ridiculous things like eating nothing but fruit in ridiculous amounts all day and often these people have serious fears (orthorexics) about fat and consumption of animal products as being "toxic"

Consumption of animal products IS toxic. That is the ONLY place Cholesterol is found. And, what is the number one cause of death in the US right now? Heart disease. What causes heart disease, you ask? Cholesterol.

OMG - THIS IS SO WRONG I CAN'T EVEN BELIEVE IT!!
Educate yourself on cholesterol before spouting this nonsense. Geesh!

Jonesie1984

yeah... that sounds like balanced nutrition.. I'm an extremist in the fact that I'm not extreme at all. This is dumb.

dp1228

Stop it.

Qarol

so this diet is...EAT ALL THE CARBS!!!

:huh:

jsimler1

http://www.uneda.org/what-does-80-10-10-mean/

magerum

holothuroidea

"Not really. Most of us are just compassionate people who advocate for nonviolence. People who are doing plant-based diets or advocate for it for (misguided) health reasons seriously need to stop hijacking the word "vegan.""

I can completely see vegetarians as compassionate and nonviolent but I don't understand vegan. One thing that has always bothered me is eggs, what does it hurt to eat eggs? Hens lay eggs, they always will, the ones shipped to stores are unfertilized, which is just part of the hen's natural life cycle... how does it hurt any animal to eat them?

A couple of points about eggs:

-Domestic chickens lay extra eggs because we have bred them to do so. It is not part of the natural life cycle of birds to lay unnecessary eggs. It's actually a big strain on their bodies. Domestic chickens are healthier when they're permitted to eat back their unfertilized eggs (which is what they're naturally inclined to do).

-In order to farm their eggs we have to keep the hens captive, and regardless of the conditions in which the hens are kept it is still captivity. You might not believe this is cruel, I do.

-In order to produce eggs in the quantity that Americans eat them, we need to do very terrible things to the chickens. Feeding them unnatural diets, keeping them in spaces where they can't stretch their wings, manipulating their fertility by starving them and keeping them in the dark, killing them when they're 12 months old (their natural life span is 5-8 years), keeping them in their own filth and depriving them of veterinary care, etc, etc. Even if you'd be okay taking eggs from a random chicken, abstaining and promoting veganism will reduce the demand for eggs and hopefully reduce the number of chickens who have to suffer.

-Even backyard hens and "happy chickens" have to be hatched somewhere. These chickens come from hatcheries where the male chicks are killed at birth. This amounts to 200 million "useless" male chicks ground alive or let to suffocate in trash bags every year. A backyard operation that breeds chickens for eggs cannot sustain itself if they allow the male chickens to grow too (it's a huge strain on resources- space, food water- for animals who don't give any resources in return unless you kill them and eat them, in which case you need to kill them).

-Nobody with adequate access to plant foods needs to eat eggs to live.

skinnytayy

80 carbs, 10 protein, 10 fat. Not what I'd call very balanced. I wouldn't get very far consuming 25 to 30 g's of protein a day.

Generally, these diets are very high calorie so people can get their protein minimums.

...I still think it's a poor choice, though, the ideas behind it are based on really flimsy reasoning and bad interpretation of data. I put raw veganism right up there with WAPF and paleo in the hierarchy of ridiculous diet ideas but at least those diets are capable of providing a person with all the nutrition they need.

Cholesterol, It's what cells need.

Yeah, good thing our bodies synthesize it all by themselves and we don't need to eat it ever.

But no, it's not "toxic."

Vegans really are a weird cult.

Not really. Most of us are just compassionate people who advocate for nonviolence. People who are doing plant-based diets or advocate for it for (misguided) health reasons seriously need to stop hijacking the word "vegan."

You're comparing paleo to raw veganism?

^ That's what I'm saying ... I follow the Primal diet (close to Paleo). Honestly I don't even care if there is science or no science behind it ... I feel like a brand new person eating this way. The health benefits inside & out are incredible. But Primal/Paleo makes sense ... you don't really need science to tell you that in the paleolithic era they didn't eat bread, spaghetti, poptarts, etc.

Raw veganism is just ridiculous, in my opinion. Mostly because the reasoning behind it makes absolutely no sense. I may take a little heat for this but I'll go as far as saying all vegan, vegetarian, raw, etc. diets are stupid in my eyes.

ThickMcRunFast

"Not really. Most of us are just compassionate people who advocate for nonviolence. People who are doing plant-based diets or advocate for it for (misguided) health reasons seriously need to stop hijacking the word "vegan.""

I can completely see vegetarians as compassionate and nonviolent but I don't understand vegan. One thing that has always bothered me is eggs, what does it hurt to eat eggs? Hens lay eggs, they always will, the ones shipped to stores are unfertilized, which is just part of the hen's natural life cycle... how does it hurt any animal to eat them?

A couple of points about eggs:

-Domestic chickens lay extra eggs because we have bred them to do so. It is not part of the natural life cycle of birds to lay unnecessary eggs. It's actually a big strain on their bodies. Domestic chickens are healthier when they're permitted to eat back their unfertilized eggs (which is what they're naturally inclined to do).

-In order to farm their eggs we have to keep the hens captive, and regardless of the conditions in which the hens are kept it is still captivity. You might not believe this is cruel, I do.

-In order to produce eggs in the quantity that Americans eat them, we need to do very terrible things to the chickens. Feeding them unnatural diets, keeping them in spaces where they can't stretch their wings, manipulating their fertility by starving them and keeping them in the dark, killing them when they're 12 months old (their natural life span is 5-8 years), keeping them in their own filth and depriving them of veterinary care, etc, etc.

-Even backyard hens and "happy chickens" have to be hatched somewhere. These chickens come from hatcheries where the male chicks are killed at birth. This amounts to 200 million "useless" male chicks ground alive or let to suffocate in trash bags every year. A backyard operation that breeds chickens for eggs cannot sustain itself if they allow the male chickens to grow too (it's a huge strain on resources- space, food water- for animals who don't give any resources in return unless you kill them and eat them, in which case you need to kill them).

-Nobody with adequate access to plant foods needs to eat eggs to live.

cmcollins001

Holy thread resurrection Batman!

yep...

I was hungry for pie though, but not sure if this is a carb (pie) or a protein (animal)

I say protein since they outweigh the carb grams.

holothuroidea

^ That's what I'm saying ... I follow the Primal diet (close to Paleo). Honestly I don't even care if there is science or no science behind it ... I feel like a brand new person eating this way. The health benefits inside & out are incredible. But Primal/Paleo makes sense ... you don't really need science to tell you that in the paleolithic era they didn't eat bread, spaghetti, poptarts, etc.

Raw veganism is just ridiculous, in my opinion. Mostly because the reasoning behind it makes absolutely no sense. I may take a little heat for this but I'll go as far as saying all vegan, vegetarian, raw, etc. diets are stupid in my eyes.

So you don't care if the reasoning behind primal/paleo makes sense, but raw foodism, vegetarianism and veganism are stupid because the reasoning behind them makes no sense to you...

"STOP LIKING THINGS I DON'T LIKE"

_SABOTEUR_

You sure know how to put the die into diet...

I guess all the carbs have to comes from unprocessed fruit and veg as well?

Congratulations, you've become a rabbit:

holothuroidea

nevermind

CoderGal

Wow. Considering protein and fat is an essential nutrient, and protein helps support LBM and fat helps absorb nutrients...this may possibly be the most *kitten*-up diet I've ever seen.