At what price do we eat meat?

kerriknox

And here's my take.

I am 41, was raised and still live on a cattle, chicken, and large garden farm. We have over 500 head of cattle, 300,000 chickens and a 3 acre garden. This all supports 3 families (my family as well as my dads 2 brothers families).

The cattle live on 2700 acres which equals approximately 5.5 acres per animal at all times. They have 2 ponds and 3 creeks to drink from. The chickens live in 4 houses that are over 250 feet long by 40 feet wide and they are not in cages. They are free to walk, fly, eat, drink, roost, nest 24 hrs a day. The houses are also climate controlled to help with the heat of summer and cold of winter.

We do not give hormones or steroids to the cattle or chickens whatsoever. We do not put pesticides on the fields used for grazing. We use natural fertilizer ( manure from the chicken houses).

I know that there are "factory farms" out there that do not allow the animals any sort of life whatsoever. I totally disagree with that concept. Our animals live life to the fullest that they can. It is possible to farm animals humanely.

My family and I are meat eaters and always will be. That being said, we love our vegetables too. My 4 and 6 year old kids love broccoli! But they also love beef, chicken, pork and venison. Yes we like to hunt as well. People have been doing it since the beginning of time and will continue to do so. Hunting, to some families, puts meat in the freezer to help provide food thru the winter.Ever heard of Hunters for the Hungry? They provide food for many less fortunate families that are very appreciative of the meat they receive, trust me one this.

I totally have nothing against those who don't eat meat, more power to them if they can do so and be healthy. To each their own. Just know that not all farms are like the ones on that show. Our family has been farming for many generations and hopefully will be able to continue to do so.

There is an old saying that comes to mind, " I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to eat vegetables".

Please visit your local Farmer's Market every chance you get!!

THIS ^^^

I grew up in the country. In the fall I ordered a quarter of beef from a local farm who is organic and the cattle are ONLY grass fed. No grains at all. The cow was butchered by a local butcher. The beef is delicious and I am happy knowing that not only am I feeding my body required nutrients (including the very important omega 3 fatty acids that most people think is only available form Salmon - try grass fed beef everyone!) I am also supporting local business and farms.

Meat and veg. If you can't kill it or grow it, don't eat it. Isn't that the saying??

DrumlineGirl

I think "meat eaters" get all up in arms about vegetarians because most of the ones we come across are self righteous and judgmental about my choice to eat meat. Vegetarians seem to think that they are making the "better" decision and look down on neanderthals like me who still eat meat. That is what gets me annoyed. I have a family member who is a vegetarian (vegan) and he is so obnoxious and thinks he is so much more enlightened than the rest of us.

I don't care what you want to eat. Just let me eat my food the way I want to...it's called freedom.

That must be frustrating!

See, I experience the opposite. In the 7 years I've been meat-free, I NEVER EVER tell people unless they ask, and I never explain why unless they ask. To each their own is how I feel. However, I have been made fun of a lot for being vegetarian, when I have done nothing to them- both online and in real life.

Why is it that as soon as people find out you are vegetarian, they try to make jokes, make fun of you or try to offend you?

Drunkadelic

Food Inc did not turn me off meat.

It turned me off factories.

Do any of you know the environmental damage done by strawberry farms?

Its not the food that is the problem, it is the industries.

^^^^ THIS. Relying on the FDA or USDA to do anything about it is simply pie in the sky, too...

Exactly. I love that movie but I also still love to eat meat. That movie taught me to think about where the food I'm eating came from and how it was treated. I am just fortunate that I have fresh, locally grown produce AND livestock meat available to me.

Jeff92se

fteale

When people say they were unhealthy, anaemic, had vit B12 deficiency (seriously? I have NEVER heard of that one anywhere but here, and I know many many vegetarians), it is clear they just weren't doing it very well. If you eat junk, you'll be unhealthy. Doesn't matter if that junk is vegan or not. If you eat healthily, you won't get deficiencies. The fact that most vegans manage perfectly fine and are in fact of above average health pretty much clinches that one.

I'm surprised that you haven't heard this before. If you google it, you'll find many vegan/vegetarian promoting websites that state this. (They advocate Vitamin B supplementation of course rather than eating animal products.)

Maybe the average diet in America isn't as good as European? I know, as a said, a lot of vegetarians. In fact well over half of all the people I know, and the only person I have ever known get anaemia was my sister, who ISN'T a vegetarian. And I have never heard of anyone with a B12 deficiency. Ever. I did hear a programme on the radio a few years ago saying that IN THEORY some vegan children could get a B12 deficiency if they were so strict they didn't eat yeast, but in that study (on vegetarian and vegan diets for children, across the whole of the UK), they hadn't actually encountered any.

UsedToBeHusky

Now you are just being obnoxious... :grumble:

Jeff92se

Now you are just being obnoxious... :grumble:

There's fruit!

sarahsmom1

Humans are born Omnivores a Fact, You may choose what to put in it. It is an individual choice NO one has the right to dictated what you eat. Of course cannibalism is frowned on.

fteale

RyanDanielle5101

I was headed towards plant based foods anyway, but although I love the taste of meat, I look at my 4 legged buddy Cody and can't help but think that all animals given the opportunity have charm and personality, like he does.

You let me know when you teach a cow or pig to sit and lay down..........Don't worry I'll wait!

recriger

I think "meat eaters" get all up in arms about vegetarians because most of the ones we come across are self righteous and judgmental about my choice to eat meat. Vegetarians seem to think that they are making the "better" decision and look down on neanderthals like me who still eat meat. That is what gets me annoyed. I have a family member who is a vegetarian (vegan) and he is so obnoxious and thinks he is so much more enlightened than the rest of us.

I don't care what you want to eat. Just let me eat my food the way I want to...it's called freedom.

That must be frustrating!

See, I experience the opposite. In the 7 years I've been meat-free, I NEVER EVER tell people unless they ask, and I never explain why unless they ask. To each their own is how I feel. However, I have been made fun of a lot for being vegetarian, when I have done nothing to them- both online and in real life.

Why is it that as soon as people find out you are vegetarian, they try to make jokes, make fun of you or try to offend you?

I often wonder if people are just simply running out of things to say. I tend to watch people. I often see those who when they hear something they don't agree with are brought up short. They aren't sure how to respond so they throw out the first joke on the subject that they know. they don' think about whether it will offend or not. Also, I will never deny that there won't always be some who do wish to be *kitten*.

My parents and my wife are all vegitarians. My wife is the only one who doesn't give me grief for eating meat. Beyond the fact that I enjoy meat, I tend to get a little combative with my mother due to the fact that it's natural. Mother nature designed us to eat meat as well as veggies. Sharp teeth up front to tear the meat and mollars in the back to grind both. There is also 1 other very important bit of proof. Depth perception. From a stand point of nature depth perception is only needed by hunters. Plants don't move. the hunters need depth perception to gage their speed, their angle of attack, and to identify that last minute show of weakness. Close one eye and see if you can tell if the person across the room is simply holding a pencil for someone else or if that pencil is stuck into the other side of the hand. It's even more difficult if they are in motion.

As others have pointed out, this subject is also far from new. At the turn of the last century (before 1910 I believe) Upton sinclair wrote a book called "The Jungle". the book was intended to be a rallying cry for workers rights, and the horid conditions forced upon the working class. It just so happens that the industry chosen was meatpacking. I haven't seen this film that's being spoken of, but it sounds very similar to the factory descriptions in the book. This book was taken and used as ammo for numerious national issues. One of the biggies was the vegitarian Vs. Meat argument of their day.

Wow! that was a lot more long winded than intended. My bad.

fteale

Humans are born Omnivores a Fact, You may choose what to put in it. It is an individual choice NO one has the right to dictated what you eat. Of course cannibalism is frowned on.

Theory. Not fact. If you want to state something as fact, back it some with something plausible.

Jeff92se

fteale

KayteeBear

I don't mind eating meat. I personally eat a lot of meat but it's almost all farm raised. Heck, I was just eating chicken that I helped butcher...I've been butchering chickens since I was little and I've seen pigs and cows and sheep butchered.

It bothers me less I guess because it is farm raised. I know what they were eating and I know how they were treated.

Jeff92se

Reasie26

That meal looks great....but I would make the whole thing without having to kill an animal...lots of delicious vegan options out there...

I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out or not (I admit, I haven't ready all 800 posts), but B12 IS available in a vegan diet. It just so happens that B12 is present in the soil, so we would get that vitamin from produce that grows in the ground. Of course, that's IF we didn't have soil full of pollution which we have to kill and scrub off before eating our produce.

So, we've changed as a species a lot over the past few thousand years, therefore we can't really know what we are designed to eat - that changes with our evolution. But, since we know we CAN survive (even thrive) on a delicious, cruelty-free diet, why not?

fteale

Jeff92se

Jeff92se

Jeff92se

Okay I'm done. Anyone hungry?

Reasie26

I was headed towards plant based foods anyway, but although I love the taste of meat, I look at my 4 legged buddy Cody and can't help but think that all animals given the opportunity have charm and personality, like he does.

You let me know when you teach a cow or pig to sit and lay down..........Don't worry I'll wait!

I raised a calf when I was about 13 years old - I trained the cow to turn in a circle (so I could pour his feed in the bucket without him sticking his head in the way and making a mess). And, pigs? Geez, I've never done it, but that's surely been done over and over. These are both incredibly intelligent animals. I mean, you can teach a chicken to peck at the correct button to receive food. It's not hard to train most any animal. Even fish....

CaptainGordo

I would hit that so hard. Just scramble the egg.

fteale

fteale

All the photos I have posted are of vegan recipes, by the way. In case anyone was wondering. Just pointing out vegetables can look good. And a damn sight healthier than the meat pictures posted on this thread.

Reasie26

Yep, quick youtube search of "trained pig" gets you about a bazillion videos of pigs doing amazing tricks. The first one alone includes a young pig sitting.

Then he goes on to wave at the audience, play dead, lay down, fetch a toy, put a toy in a toy box (closing the lid afterwards), raising a flag on a flag pole, playing soccer (he scored!), and he ends that with a happy lick to his owner's face when the guy showers him with praise and pets - hmmmm, just like a dog would do.

sunnyday789

When people say they were unhealthy, anaemic, had vit B12 deficiency (seriously? I have NEVER heard of that one anywhere but here, and I know many many vegetarians), it is clear they just weren't doing it very well. If you eat junk, you'll be unhealthy. Doesn't matter if that junk is vegan or not. If you eat healthily, you won't get deficiencies. The fact that most vegans manage perfectly fine and are in fact of above average health pretty much clinches that one.

I'm surprised that you haven't heard this before. If you google it, you'll find many vegan/vegetarian promoting websites that state this. (They advocate Vitamin B supplementation of course rather than eating animal products.)

Maybe the average diet in America isn't as good as European? I know, as a said, a lot of vegetarians. In fact well over half of all the people I know, and the only person I have ever known get anaemia was my sister, who ISN'T a vegetarian. And I have never heard of anyone with a B12 deficiency. Ever. I did hear a programme on the radio a few years ago saying that IN THEORY some vegan children could get a B12 deficiency if they were so strict they didn't eat yeast, but in that study (on vegetarian and vegan diets for children, across the whole of the UK), they hadn't actually encountered any.

It apparently occurs more with vegans than with vegetarians who eat eggs and dairy products. Especially also with older people who don't absorb the same way. Most sites that I quickly looked at said that it does take a while befroe your body runs out; maybe that's why you don't see it in children. Also, as a rule, children don't get blood tests with yearly physicals unless they're symptomatic whereas adults do (at least from what I've seen) so the condition could be underdiagnosed. Most people will build up a level of tolerance to be anemic as it usually develops slowly.
I don't know if Europeans following a vegan diet eat better than Americans following vegan diet. One would think that most in these two groups would look at nutrition more carefully than the population at large.
Lots of factors and variables to consider, but I have heard this several times from different sources not just from those wanting to bash veganism.

Jeff92se

All the photos I have posted are of vegan recipes, by the way. In case anyone was wondering. Just pointing out vegetables can look good. And a damn sight healthier than the meat pictures posted on this thread.

Look and taste are two diff things but if you want to take a poll. I've eaten most of what I've posted and my health is fine. More than fine in fact.

I didn't realize this was a post the most healthy food contest.

CaptainGordo

All the photos I have posted are of vegan recipes, by the way. In case anyone was wondering. Just pointing out vegetables can look good. And a damn sight healthier than the meat pictures posted on this thread.

"Healthier" is subjective.

The meat ones look a million times tastier to me.

ReverendJim

I watched it all the way through and I still eat meat. And I raise chickens for meat and eggs.