parent versus school

jennajava

He's "unprepared" for recess - due to his own fault which was confirmed by a call to his parent. No recess for him, period.

That's the problem with society today. It's not the school's responsibility to punish a child for a disagreement that occurred at home. That's mom's job.

Then, when we have to spend time teaching kids "lessons" that should've been taught at home, we lose academic time, and ultimately, it's the teacher's fault.

chondrat

BAD MOM! Kidding....my kids are older. I think the same way. At a certain age there are SOME things that you should be able to expect your child to remember and a coat is one of them. We live in the midwest (I'm deployed right now) so winters are brutal....PLEASE FORGET YOUR COAT and see what happens when you step out the door. I even go so far as to apply similar rules when we fly as a family. When we fly, everyone has a backpack for their own crap. If you forget something, sucks to be you simple as that.

Trust me, I have done far worse than you that will probably put my kids in therapy, LOL. You're fine!

Signed Psycho Military Mom (as my kids call me) LOL

fteale

I don't agree. I'll expect him to do what he can when he is ready to. Or when my younger one starts school and I don't have time to concentrate on him.

Yikes.

I hope the day never comes when I don't have time to concentrate on my children.

Don't be so patronising. It's quite clear what I mean. At the moment I only have one child's things to get out of the door (school bag, book bag, reading, homework and spelling books, ukulele, cello and twice a week ballet and tap clothes/shoes). That's a lot to remember for anyone on a daily basis. I manage with one. Once the second starts I'll have a whole different set of things to remember on top, and it's very likely I'll forget things some days. So they'll have to take some responsibility.

I am very offended by your comment.

godblessourhome

If its is cold enough to see your breath, I'm assuming its what, 30 degrees or so? Why would your child be carrying their coat in their bookbag when it is that cold out? Maybe I'm just so used to living where it gets very cold, that I'm used to being accountable for my entire household's well-being, by making sure my kids are appropriately dressed for the weather before they walk out the door. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

they probably get that from me. i wasn't wearing a coat this morning (it was on the seat next to me), just a little jacket type thing that goes with my workout outfit. that is why the rule is 'wear it or carry it'; i want them to have a coat if they need it, but i don't want to make them to wear it (i hated that as a kid). i thought i was doing good 'forcing' him to change to long-sleeves.

he might not have been wearing his coat, but he was however, wearing light gloves (the thing that i ask them to do on cold days).

different climates are prepared for different things, i guess. if we lived in the mountains with copious snow or the plains with a plethora of wind, i'd probably have a different philosophy about wearing a coat. most days a 30 degree morning means a 50-55 degree afternoon.

jennajava

I don't agree. I'll expect him to do what he can when he is ready to. Or when my younger one starts school and I don't have time to concentrate on him.

Yikes.

I hope the day never comes when I don't have time to concentrate on my children.

Don't be so patronising. It's quite clear what I mean. At the moment I only have one child's things to get out of the door (school bag, book bag, reading, homework and spelling books, ukulele, cello and twice a week ballet and tap clothes/shoes). That's a lot to remember for anyone on a daily basis. I manage with one. Once the second starts I'll have a whole different set of things to remember on top, and it's very likely I'll forget things some days. So they'll have to take some responsibility.

I am very offended by your comment.

Obviously, it was not clear what you meant. I'm offended that you accused me of patronizing.

fteale

I really can't imagine ever being so mean as to refuse to return to school with an item the child, or I, had forgotten, no matter what their age.

I really don't like the way that as soon as you disagree with something someone has done (usually parenting related), people jump to accuse you of being a bad parent, as a sort of weird pre-emptive retaliation for a perceived offence. I am a great mother who always 100% of the time puts my children's needs first. I am greatly offended by the suggestion that by not expecting my 6 year old to remember his own coat (though tbh, it couldn't happen as he couldn't walk out of the front door to the car without remembering it, as it's freezing in the mornings), I am in some way neglecting him That's is beyond warped logic.

iuangina

At that age, I would say that he does not get to have recess. Too bad that he didn't listen and bring his coat to school. It's more work for the school to have to watch him while all the other kids are at recess, but so what. 3rd grade is when they need to learn responsibility or you will be bringing him his homework or lunch or whatever for the rest of his life. This will not kill him to miss recess for a day. I'm a teacher and I totally agree with what you said. I also wouldn't want my kid in anything that came out of the lost and found.....elementary school lost and found is a huge box of junk that is dirty and full of germs...yuck!

I also think there has to be some connection between what happens at home and what happens at school. This is why schools are failing. Parents don't follow through with what needs to be done at home and the schools don't communicate with the parents and follow through with reasonable suggestions. When communication occurs and it's a reasonable suggestion I think the school and the parents need to be on the same page. It shouldn't be a battle between home and school. It should be a partnership.

ymhand

I would not bring a coat. You had the right idea of asking the teacher to let him stay inside on his recess and do his homework. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't forget his coat after all his friends playing outside w/out him. They shouldn't even be outside if it's that darn cold.

fteale

I don't agree. I'll expect him to do what he can when he is ready to. Or when my younger one starts school and I don't have time to concentrate on him.

Yikes.

I hope the day never comes when I don't have time to concentrate on my children.

Don't be so patronising. It's quite clear what I mean. At the moment I only have one child's things to get out of the door (school bag, book bag, reading, homework and spelling books, ukulele, cello and twice a week ballet and tap clothes/shoes). That's a lot to remember for anyone on a daily basis. I manage with one. Once the second starts I'll have a whole different set of things to remember on top, and it's very likely I'll forget things some days. So they'll have to take some responsibility.

I am very offended by your comment.

Obviously, it was not clear what you meant. I'm offended that you accused me of patronizing.

What I said was clear. You just try to jump on everything I ever say and goad me. Please stop it now.

godblessourhome

He didn't do it at school.

He's "unprepared" for recess - due to his own fault which was confirmed by a call to his parent. No recess for him, period.

That's the problem with society today. It's not the school's responsibility to punish a child for a disagreement that occurred at home. That's mom's job.

Then, when we have to spend time teaching kids "lessons" that should've been taught at home, we lose academic time, and ultimately, it's the teacher's fault.

i don't believe missing recess because he forgot his coat to be a 'punishment'. it's a logical, natural consquence.

the school disciplines with taking away recess for homework that isn't turned in which is also supposed to happen at home so that argument doesn't really work for me. my kids have had recess taken away for me being seven minutes late to pick them up from an extra-curricular activity.

godblessourhome

I would also feel better if we thought of this as Parents and School instead of Parents vs School.

i back our school rules 100%, even if i don't agree with them. i think it is important for my kids to see that the school and i have a united front. if my son brings up wearing a lost and found coat, i will say, 'well that is the school's consequence for forgetting your coat'. my kids will not know that i was irritated with the school this morning or that we had a disagreement on how this should be handled.

LuckyLeprechaun

I would bring the coat.

Here's why: You both made a mistake this morning, right? Whether you want to admit it or not, the kiddo was being silly about what to wear (his mistake) but you let it fluster you and you didn't notice that he had no jacket until you are already at the school (your mistake). How come he has to "suffer the consequences" of his mistake, bu you have no consequences for yours?

I understand about teaching your child that actions have consequences, but the truth is, in real life, we get away with stuff ALL.THE.TIME. If you show up ten minutes late to work, and your boss miraculously doesn't notice, do you walk into HR and proclaim yourself? To "suffer your consequences"? No, you just sigh a sigh of relief that this time, you got away with it.

When my kids were young enough for this type of situation, I'd ask myself if this was a battle-worthy "cause", or if it was wiser to demonstrate to my kid that I have his back, even if he was being an irritating little jerk just an hour before. Because if it were me, I wouldn't want to have to freeze all day, or wear a yucky lost/found jacket.

My parents were so severe with the "natural consequences" idea, that they thought they had to dole out a consequence for everything. All it taught me was 1. my parents were looking for a way for me to be in trouble, and 2. they did not have my back, and 3. they could not be trusted to deal with anything in a calm or reasonable way. Everything was dire, everything had to carry a punishment or payback. All it did was make me sneaky. And when I was faced with situations where I should've sought guidance from them, they were the last people I wanted to talk to or share anything with.

Just be careful, because a missed recess seems small, but in a kids' world, that's taking a LOT from him. For a crime that's pretty small, imho.

godblessourhome

I can see both points of view but as someone else has said it is fine for you, as a parent, to say that you want your child to go out in the freezing cold without a coat so that he'll learn a lesson but when you're in charge of someone else's child, then it isn't that straight forward.

I do a lot of voluntary youth work and child protection rules, certainly here in the UK, both inside and outside the class room are strict and strictly enforced. Here, a teacher who sends a child out in the cold without a coat, regardless of what the mother said, would be very likely to get their knuckles rapped themselves.

i hadn't thought of that. and we do have a very litigation-happy culture.

iuangina

Here's a question....if it's that cold why are they going outside? We aren't allowed to go out if it's really cold.

godblessourhome

As a teacher, I find it the other way around. Parents of "precious children" can do no wrong and teachers are always at fault. Parents provide the million ways out while I try to teach responsibility and perseverence.

I guess it just depends upon what view you are looking at things from.

If you could provide it in writing that your child can go outside in the cold without a coat, I would let him do it. If not, I have to watch out for myself and make sure he is protected. If it's not in writing and the call isn't recorded, you can blame me tomorrrow when your kid catches pneumonia. It's my word against yours that you said it, and everyone is sue happy these days.

I"m actually surpised the school called and didn't just deal with it and move on......

Keep him in? Maybe......but that may be the time I have to go to the restroom, or do lesson plans, or make the millions of phone calls that I have to make, or do the twenty other tasks that I'm required to do (like fundraisers and sponsoring classes and doing reports and planning class trips and packing backpacks with food for the hungry children or counting pennies that we collected for the charity, or talking to sobbing students (no I'm not the counselor), or helping a parent with a letter or form or homework paper (because they think teachers are there to help them with all of their things, too), or sending photos and articles to the newspaper so the kids can be in the newspaper, or...(all of which have nothing to do with teaching a child and I'm giving no extra time to do but I do it anyway)............... so there may be no one to supervise a child. Why should I be punished for a lesson that YOU are trying to teach him?

There are many circumstances........there are many viewpoints......probably the school and the mom are trying to do the best they can with what they have.

interesting to read a teacher's perspective. thanks for chiming in!

LuckyLeprechaun

i wouldn't have taken the coat, i'm also hoping the school did attempt to teach him a lesson and put him in a very unfashionable coat (or even better a girls) that didn't fit properly,that way he'd make sure the coat was never forgotten again (lost property at my school never had anything nice in it)

Yeah, that'll teach him......what exactly? That his parents, who are supposed to have his best interests in mind, are hoping for his public humiliation.....how loving...:noway:

Kids are shorter than us, but they have feeings just like every person...

cathynicolette

I agree with your decision. some of you have written that keeping him inside would require the teacher to stay in... well, the teacher needs to be outside supervising the playground. there are other classrooms the child could have gone to while his classmates are outside. The school was just being stubborn and coddling. Mom, you are right.

macpatti

i wouldn't have taken the coat, i'm also hoping the school did attempt to teach him a lesson and put him in a very unfashionable coat (or even better a girls) that didn't fit properly,that way he'd make sure the coat was never forgotten again (lost property at my school never had anything nice in it)

Yeah, that'll teach him......what exactly? That his parents, who are supposed to have his best interests in mind, are hoping for his public humiliation.....how loving...:noway:

Kids are shorter than us, but they have feeings just like every person...

I do not believe in public humiliation of children; that's horrible. I wouldn't have taken the coat, but would never want my child to be humiliated for it. There's a difference.

JustLena75

I agree with you...and I'd be pretty pissed that the school wouldn't honor that request. My daughter like to leave her gloves at school...so her hands get to freeze until she remembers to bring them back home. I get sick of her leaving them, and I make her go without even though we have spares!

jennajava

the school disciplines with taking away recess for homework that isn't turned in which is also supposed to happen at home so that argument doesn't really work for me. my kids have had recess taken away for me being seven minutes late to pick them up from an extra-curricular activity.

No, all schools do not punish for homework not being turned in. My school doesn't. It's not fair to punish kids who don't have parents at home to help them with homework.

As for the child being punished for your lateness, that doesn't sound fair either, and wouldn't fly in public school. Do they attend private school?

Wolfena

He's "unprepared" for recess - due to his own fault which was confirmed by a call to his parent. No recess for him, period.

That's the problem with society today. It's not the school's responsibility to punish a child for a disagreement that occurred at home. That's mom's job.

Then, when we have to spend time teaching kids "lessons" that should've been taught at home, we lose academic time, and ultimately, it's the teacher's fault.

If a child forgets to bring his homework to school he is penalized with a lower grade.... if a child forgets to bring his gym clothes to school he is penalized with a lower grade.

It's not the parents job to bring those things to school either (although they MIGHT if asked- it's often not even an option to call the parent for those sorts of things!)
A child needs to learn responsibility both at home and at school. It is not the teachers responsibility to pack their bookbags and ensure homework papers are brought home.... is it? And if the child forgets, is the teacher required to bring them to the child's home?? No! That'd be insane! The lesson to the child is that if he doesn't learn to take responsibility for his own actions, there will be consequences.... period - whether at home or at school.

A child being fussy and refusing to wear or carry his coat is typical, a parent being hurried and having multiple things to take care of on the way out of the house is also normal. Missing a coat being brought along isn't uncommon. ESPECIALLY when the child was intentionally being rebellious in not wearing it. The situation of the missing coat started at home, as far as the school should be concerned - if he's got no coat and the parent won't bring one, he doesn't go outside.... end of it.

I repeat - I find it in bad taste to make the kid wear someone else's (LOST!) clothing in such a "non-emergency" - just yuck on that idea.
(in my opinion)

dadoffo

I agree with you...and I'd be pretty pissed that the school wouldn't honor that request. My daughter like to leave her gloves at school...so her hands get to freeze until she remembers to bring them back home. I get sick of her leaving them, and I make her go without even though we have spares!

I don't think that the school has to be involve in a punishment that was given to them by the kids parents. The schools is just trying to protect the kid. If he's cold then they will give him a jacket. If the parent wants to discipline their kids, do it in your home at your own time. Don't involve the school or anyone else.

jennajava

He's "unprepared" for recess - due to his own fault which was confirmed by a call to his parent. No recess for him, period.

That's the problem with society today. It's not the school's responsibility to punish a child for a disagreement that occurred at home. That's mom's job.

Then, when we have to spend time teaching kids "lessons" that should've been taught at home, we lose academic time, and ultimately, it's the teacher's fault.

If a child forgets to bring his homework to school he is penalized with a lower grade.... if a child forgets to bring his gym clothes to school he is penalized with a lower grade.

This argument has no weight with me. Like I told fteale, in my school, we can't hold children accountable for those things. It's not a kid's fault if their parents can't or won't be involved. You never know who has deadbeat parents, or parents that have to work 80 hours a week and can't help. Sounds like a flaw in the child's school.

CRMrunner

To the point that children live up to the expectations we set for them....

I always tell parents at the beginning of the school year that I am helping them to raise responsible adults. I have three of my own children, but I'm not raising children. They're already children. I'm looking forward to what we should be. Having said that, we can't expect the same thing from children of all ages. We can't even expect the same thing from kids the same age. I have had third graders who are figuring out how to find loopholes, and I've had sixth graders who genuinely needed help that shocked me.

godblessourhome

the school disciplines with taking away recess for homework that isn't turned in which is also supposed to happen at home so that argument doesn't really work for me. my kids have had recess taken away for me being seven minutes late to pick them up from an extra-curricular activity.

No, all schools do not punish for homework not being turned in. My school doesn't. It's not fair to punish kids who don't have parents at home to help them with homework.

As for the child being punished for your lateness, that doesn't sound fair either, and wouldn't fly in public school. Do they attend private school?

they attend a public school.

i realize not all school have the same policies as ours. when i said 'the school' i was specifically talking about our school.

macpatti

I don't understand why some people are opposed to her 3rd grader having consequences for forgetting his coat. If kids forget their athletic shoes, they sit out of PE. If they forget their home work, they're given a zero or points taken off for being late. If they forget their coat and it's cold outside, I think it's appropriate that they stay inside. I can't stand it when one of our students blames a parent when they've forgotten something. I would be upset at my own kids for blaming me.

jennajava

the school disciplines with taking away recess for homework that isn't turned in which is also supposed to happen at home so that argument doesn't really work for me. my kids have had recess taken away for me being seven minutes late to pick them up from an extra-curricular activity.

No, all schools do not punish for homework not being turned in. My school doesn't. It's not fair to punish kids who don't have parents at home to help them with homework.

As for the child being punished for your lateness, that doesn't sound fair either, and wouldn't fly in public school. Do they attend private school?

they attend a public school.

i realize not all school have the same policies as ours. when i said 'the school' i was specifically talking about our school.

I'm sorry, I was quoting and referring to the person who posted that.

jennajava

I don't understand why some people are opposed to her 3rd grader having consequences for forgetting his coat. If kids forget their athletic shoes, they sit out of PE. If they forget their home work, they're given a zero or points taken off for being late. If they forget their coat and it's cold outside, I think it's appropriate that they stay inside. I can't stand it when one of our students blames a parent when they've forgotten something. I would be upset at my own kids for blaming me.

And again I stand by this.

As an educator, the reason they told you no is because we live in a litigation happy society. Can you imagine this headline?

SCHOOL SUED FOR GIVING CHILD RECESS DETENTION FOR LEAVING JACKET AT HOME

While you may have had a wonderful reason and lesson (I agree with you) to teach your child, it was not the school's place to punish him for it. It' s yours, because it happened at home, and not at school. Also, you could have been a nutjob who flipped out on them when they gave him detention, even though you asked. You won't believe some of the crazy stuff we see.

CRMrunner

I don't think that the school has to be involve in a punishment that was given to them by the kids parents. The schools is just trying to protect the kid. If he's cold then they will give him a jacket. If the parent wants to discipline their kids, do it in your home at your own time. Don't involve the school or anyone else.

I agree with your point, but want to point out that there is a big difference between punishment and discipline. You can lovingly hold children accountable without punishing them.

macpatti

This argument has no weight with me. Like I told fteale, in my school, we can't hold children accountable for those things. It's not a kid's fault if their parents can't or won't be involved. You never know who has deadbeat parents, or parents that have to work 80 hours a week and can't help. Sounds like a flaw in the child's school.

JJ~ I can understand different schools having different policies, and yours being one that won't hold kids accountable for certain things because of their families. However, I still think it's important for even your kiddos to learn responsibility, especially because they don't have responsible parents. Obviously, it's not their fault if they're tardy to school, but they can certainly remember home work, the correct shoes, and coats (if they have them).