parent versus school

Wolfena

He's "unprepared" for recess - due to his own fault which was confirmed by a call to his parent. No recess for him, period.

That's the problem with society today. It's not the school's responsibility to punish a child for a disagreement that occurred at home. That's mom's job.

Then, when we have to spend time teaching kids "lessons" that should've been taught at home, we lose academic time, and ultimately, it's the teacher's fault.

If a child forgets to bring his homework to school he is penalized with a lower grade.... if a child forgets to bring his gym clothes to school he is penalized with a lower grade.

It's not the parents job to bring those things to school either (although they MIGHT if asked- it's often not even an option to call the parent for those sorts of things!)
A child needs to learn responsibility both at home and at school. It is not the teachers responsibility to pack their bookbags and ensure homework papers are brought home.... is it? And if the child forgets, is the teacher required to bring them to the child's home?? No! That'd be insane! The lesson to the child is that if he doesn't learn to take responsibility for his own actions, there will be consequences.... period - whether at home or at school.

A child being fussy and refusing to wear or carry his coat is typical, a parent being hurried and having multiple things to take care of on the way out of the house is also normal. Missing a coat being brought along isn't uncommon. ESPECIALLY when the child was intentionally being rebellious in not wearing it. The situation of the missing coat started at home, as far as the school should be concerned - if he's got no coat and the parent won't bring one, he doesn't go outside.... end of it.

I repeat - I find it in bad taste to make the kid wear someone else's (LOST!) clothing in such a "non-emergency" - just yuck on that idea.
(in my opinion)

dadoffo

I agree with you...and I'd be pretty pissed that the school wouldn't honor that request. My daughter like to leave her gloves at school...so her hands get to freeze until she remembers to bring them back home. I get sick of her leaving them, and I make her go without even though we have spares!

I don't think that the school has to be involve in a punishment that was given to them by the kids parents. The schools is just trying to protect the kid. If he's cold then they will give him a jacket. If the parent wants to discipline their kids, do it in your home at your own time. Don't involve the school or anyone else.

jennajava

He's "unprepared" for recess - due to his own fault which was confirmed by a call to his parent. No recess for him, period.

That's the problem with society today. It's not the school's responsibility to punish a child for a disagreement that occurred at home. That's mom's job.

Then, when we have to spend time teaching kids "lessons" that should've been taught at home, we lose academic time, and ultimately, it's the teacher's fault.

If a child forgets to bring his homework to school he is penalized with a lower grade.... if a child forgets to bring his gym clothes to school he is penalized with a lower grade.

This argument has no weight with me. Like I told fteale, in my school, we can't hold children accountable for those things. It's not a kid's fault if their parents can't or won't be involved. You never know who has deadbeat parents, or parents that have to work 80 hours a week and can't help. Sounds like a flaw in the child's school.

CRMrunner

To the point that children live up to the expectations we set for them....

I always tell parents at the beginning of the school year that I am helping them to raise responsible adults. I have three of my own children, but I'm not raising children. They're already children. I'm looking forward to what we should be. Having said that, we can't expect the same thing from children of all ages. We can't even expect the same thing from kids the same age. I have had third graders who are figuring out how to find loopholes, and I've had sixth graders who genuinely needed help that shocked me.

godblessourhome

the school disciplines with taking away recess for homework that isn't turned in which is also supposed to happen at home so that argument doesn't really work for me. my kids have had recess taken away for me being seven minutes late to pick them up from an extra-curricular activity.

No, all schools do not punish for homework not being turned in. My school doesn't. It's not fair to punish kids who don't have parents at home to help them with homework.

As for the child being punished for your lateness, that doesn't sound fair either, and wouldn't fly in public school. Do they attend private school?

they attend a public school.

i realize not all school have the same policies as ours. when i said 'the school' i was specifically talking about our school.

macpatti

I don't understand why some people are opposed to her 3rd grader having consequences for forgetting his coat. If kids forget their athletic shoes, they sit out of PE. If they forget their home work, they're given a zero or points taken off for being late. If they forget their coat and it's cold outside, I think it's appropriate that they stay inside. I can't stand it when one of our students blames a parent when they've forgotten something. I would be upset at my own kids for blaming me.

jennajava

the school disciplines with taking away recess for homework that isn't turned in which is also supposed to happen at home so that argument doesn't really work for me. my kids have had recess taken away for me being seven minutes late to pick them up from an extra-curricular activity.

No, all schools do not punish for homework not being turned in. My school doesn't. It's not fair to punish kids who don't have parents at home to help them with homework.

As for the child being punished for your lateness, that doesn't sound fair either, and wouldn't fly in public school. Do they attend private school?

they attend a public school.

i realize not all school have the same policies as ours. when i said 'the school' i was specifically talking about our school.

I'm sorry, I was quoting and referring to the person who posted that.

jennajava

I don't understand why some people are opposed to her 3rd grader having consequences for forgetting his coat. If kids forget their athletic shoes, they sit out of PE. If they forget their home work, they're given a zero or points taken off for being late. If they forget their coat and it's cold outside, I think it's appropriate that they stay inside. I can't stand it when one of our students blames a parent when they've forgotten something. I would be upset at my own kids for blaming me.

And again I stand by this.

As an educator, the reason they told you no is because we live in a litigation happy society. Can you imagine this headline?

SCHOOL SUED FOR GIVING CHILD RECESS DETENTION FOR LEAVING JACKET AT HOME

While you may have had a wonderful reason and lesson (I agree with you) to teach your child, it was not the school's place to punish him for it. It' s yours, because it happened at home, and not at school. Also, you could have been a nutjob who flipped out on them when they gave him detention, even though you asked. You won't believe some of the crazy stuff we see.

CRMrunner

I don't think that the school has to be involve in a punishment that was given to them by the kids parents. The schools is just trying to protect the kid. If he's cold then they will give him a jacket. If the parent wants to discipline their kids, do it in your home at your own time. Don't involve the school or anyone else.

I agree with your point, but want to point out that there is a big difference between punishment and discipline. You can lovingly hold children accountable without punishing them.

macpatti

This argument has no weight with me. Like I told fteale, in my school, we can't hold children accountable for those things. It's not a kid's fault if their parents can't or won't be involved. You never know who has deadbeat parents, or parents that have to work 80 hours a week and can't help. Sounds like a flaw in the child's school.

JJ~ I can understand different schools having different policies, and yours being one that won't hold kids accountable for certain things because of their families. However, I still think it's important for even your kiddos to learn responsibility, especially because they don't have responsible parents. Obviously, it's not their fault if they're tardy to school, but they can certainly remember home work, the correct shoes, and coats (if they have them).

LuckyLeprechaun

I don't understand why some people are opposed to her 3rd grader having consequences for forgetting his coat.

Not everything needs a consequence. It's just not that big of a deal.

IMHO, making sure your kids knows you've got his back when the stakes are small or large, is more important.

A kid who doesn't want to wear a jacket will not grow up to be a serial murderer. There is no urgent need for her to "correct" this behavior. It holds no risk to the child or society.

jennajava

This argument has no weight with me. Like I told fteale, in my school, we can't hold children accountable for those things. It's not a kid's fault if their parents can't or won't be involved. You never know who has deadbeat parents, or parents that have to work 80 hours a week and can't help. Sounds like a flaw in the child's school.

JJ~ I can understand different schools having different policies, and yours being one that won't hold kids accountable for certain things because of their families. However, I still think it's important for even your kiddos to learn responsibility, especially because they don't have responsible parents. Obviously, it's not their fault if they're tardy to school, but they can certainly remember home work, the correct shoes, and coats (if they have them).

I can understand how you would think this. However, I work in a county where my kids are concerned about where their next meal is coming from. I'm not holding them accountable for homework.

_binary_jester_

Also lets put things in perspective. In terms of punishment, we are talking about 1 missed recess. It's not like we are talking caning.

iuangina

JJ - Now the legal part of me is going to speak up, there would be no cause of action for the denial of recess in this situation. Schools are allowed to make rules and policies without fear of lawsuits. Failure to have a coat is a legitimate reason for denying recess to a child.

However, I do understand what you are saying about the parents needing to provide consequences at home for these types of things. It is not the school's responsibility to raise your children. I think that in this case though not allowing a child to go outside because he failed to bring a coat to school is not unreasonable. It's obviously not the same as having to stay inside and do your homework which is allowed at my school because the children are responsible for at least attempting the homework. If it's wrong or they needed help those are different things and would not lead to a punishment. I work in a county with a similar makeup and we always hold the children accountable. It makes them learn responsibility and they become better students.

chanstriste13

And schools are CLUELESS!
Their standards and results keep slipping further and further, yet teachers snivel for more money...

:noway:

macpatti

I don't understand why some people are opposed to her 3rd grader having consequences for forgetting his coat.

Not everything needs a consequence. It's just not that big of a deal.

All actions, big and small, have consequences.

IMHO, making sure your kids knows you've got his back when the stakes are small or large, is more important.

I totally agree with you. I've always got my kids' backs, but I won't enable them. I think there's a difference and you can have both.

A kid who doesn't want to wear a jacket will not grow up to be a serial murderer. There is no urgent need for her to "correct" this behavior. It holds no risk to the child or society.

And a child who forgets his coat and misses recess won't be traumatized for life either. He may actually learn something.

luvmybaby333

Nope. I totally agree with you. And as the parent, YOU should be able to make these kinds of calls. It's not as if you refused to buy him a coat for the winter. He made a choice not to wear it or not to remember it, and it's perfectly reasonable to want to allow him to experiences the results of that decision. It really is an effective teaching method to let the natural consequences speak for themselves.

Of course, this is one (of many) reasons why I decided that public school and my family just don't mix. I am the parent. I get final say on how my children are being raised. I will not back down on that point. As a result, homeschooling just fits us better. I'm sure if the schools knew what they would have been looking forward to for the next 12 years, then they would have thanked me for pulling my oldest daughter out. LOL

ETA: I should add that on the subject of withholding recess, I saw recess withheld from KINDERGARTNERS for far stupider reasons. My 5-year-old daughter was repeatedly forced to sit out during recess and *library*, because she didn't finish coloring on time. Seriously. Coloring. She was forced to color so much, and with such specific instructions, that she ended up hating it. It took about a year of homeschooling to deprogram the hate she associated with it, and get her to enjoy such a simple childhood activity again.

BrettPGH

I'm sorry to be the first to outright disagree here, but I'd like to give you my honest opinion.

Firstly, there is no way my kids get out the door without their coat on. As a mother, I feel that is just as much MY responsibility as theirs. If the temperature is under 55 - 60 degrees, they are wearing some kind of jacket or coat. When you let him go without his coat, you risk getting him sick, which in turn risks getting you, your spouse, and any other children you may have sick as well.

Secondly, how old is your son? I have three - who are 9, 6, and 3 - and I would NEVER let them out the door without their coat on. I feel this is just as much my responsibility as it is theirs. Their coat hangs on a double hook with their bookbag, right over their shoes, so that its all together and ready to go each day. Sure my 9 year old will say "Mom, I don't need a coat today", but I just say "You're wearing one, end of story."

Maybe I misunderstood what you said, which is possible. I just don't understand how you could walk to your car with your child, get them in the car, and not notice their coat missing. Or maybe I'm just a silly overprotective mother. Either way, I just wanted to be honest with you. I mean no offense, so if I've offended you, or anyone else, I'm sorry in advance.

I agree with this. I'm no helicopter parent, far from it. But if my daughter, two years older than yours, left the house without a coat I'd be mortified. Especially in the freezing cold. We're the parents, we're responsible. You can't pin the blame on an 8 year old. The school is calling asking that you bring your child a coat because it's freezing out and you sent them without one. I don't see how anyone could say no.

My opinion.

LuckyLeprechaun

All actions, big and small, have consequences.

Not everything *always* has a consequence. I was speeding on the way to work today, and showed up 7 minutes late. I will experience no consequences for these actions.

ajbeans

All actions, big and small, have consequences.

Not everything *always* has a consequence. I was speeding on the way to work today, and showed up 7 minutes late. I will experience no consequences for these actions.

"consequence" doesn't mean "punishment." The consequence was that you ran the risk of getting caught, and of getting into an accident. You also weren't as late as you would have been had you not been speeding. That's also a consequence, although it's not a punishment. The consequence of me doing all my laundry yesterday is that I have clean socks today -- sometimes consequences can be positive like that. The consequence of going to school without your coat is that you get cold. It's not a punishment, it's a natural consequence.