parent versus school

ishallnotwant

He's "unprepared" for recess - due to his own fault which was confirmed by a call to his parent. No recess for him, period.

That's the problem with society today. It's not the school's responsibility to punish a child for a disagreement that occurred at home. That's mom's job.

Then, when we have to spend time teaching kids "lessons" that should've been taught at home, we lose academic time, and ultimately, it's the teacher's fault.

I wholeheartedly agree. This is also why schools are getting more and more rights to do things that the parents should be doing: i.e. sex ed, etc. One school in Chicago has even decided that no children may bring lunches from home without a doctor's note-because the principal has deemed the school lunches "healthier". Parents need to step up and parent, and stop trying to leave it all to the school to do.

RosalindaP

I agree with you! I have had issues with my daughter "forgetting" her glasses not long after she was prescribed them. We have made it a habit to put them in her back pack when she takes them off at night but kids are kids and their were still days that she didn't remember them. Here is my deal...I work 45 minutes from home and the school. When they called to tell me they weren't in her back pack there was no way I was coming back to find them.

I told her teacher to take her recess. She is 7 and plenty smart enough to know that she should have made sure she had them before she left the house.

Her teacher is very supportive and gave her a word search and marched her to the office during her morning and afternoon recess. She was permitted to take her lunch recess...but she learned a valuable lesson and we haven't had one day that she went to school without them since.

ahjenny

I can understand where you're coming from. However, the school may have separate people who monitor your kiddo while the teacher is having their lunch, and having your (most likely unhappy) kid sit with his teacher during their lunch break will not necessarily be a picnic for the teacher, you know? Rock and a hard place, right? Maybe find another way to teach him responsibility? It's tough when the school contracticts what you say.

ishallnotwant

This argument has no weight with me. Like I told fteale, in my school, we can't hold children accountable for those things. It's not a kid's fault if their parents can't or won't be involved. You never know who has deadbeat parents, or parents that have to work 80 hours a week and can't help. Sounds like a flaw in the child's school.

JJ~ I can understand different schools having different policies, and yours being one that won't hold kids accountable for certain things because of their families. However, I still think it's important for even your kiddos to learn responsibility, especially because they don't have responsible parents. Obviously, it's not their fault if they're tardy to school, but they can certainly remember home work, the correct shoes, and coats (if they have them).

I can understand how you would think this. However, I work in a county where my kids are concerned about where their next meal is coming from. I'm not holding them accountable for homework.

I have to say, I was really shocked by your posts about the children not being penalized or sitting in for recess fro not turning in homework until I read this statement. It really puts things in perspective. I do believe that not everything is black and white, and there may be districts where it is appropriate for children to sit in during recess and complete their homework if they don't do it. I also think that in places like where you are, where many of the children are probably constantly in crisis, it is good to focus on some of the things that the kid is thinking about, rather than just education. If the kids in your district are starving and thinking about how they didn't eat breakfast all morning, keeping them in for recess to do homework doesn't sound like the most charitable thing to do. While I don't think it SHOULD be the school's job to do those things (I think more churches and individuals should stand up and help others, personally), I think it is great to see that the school is doing it regardless. I'm glad there are people like you out there who care for the kids in your county and are going the extra mile for them.

Gwen7121

While I agree that it's a teaching moment.... learn to be responsible for yourself and your stuff, I can also see the school's point. To have a child indoors during recess requires supervision, who would that responsibility fall to? This is probably the only time during the day that the teacher has to regroup (I think I'd pull my hair out if I had to spend day in, day out with children, let alone not getting any break during the day). And if it's cold enough that you can see your breath a child should not be outside without a coat, if I were responsible for another person's child I would definitely not allow that child outdoors without a coat.

This ^^^ Also, it's not just the teacher's moment to regroup, it's the child's moment to blow off steam from a few hours of forced inactivity. Recess is good for their state of mind and concentration.

deeharley

I agree with you about not taking him a coat, but I'm not sure the school is wrong to let him borrow one to go outside. They may not have the staff to leave a child inside.

I do have a question though, if you thought he was going to be wearing a coat to and from school, why was it so important for him to wear a long-sleeved shirt instead of a short-sleeved one?

maidentl

I'd call this a pick your battles moment. I am very forgetful myself, so I am not a fan of punishing my kids when they forget something one time. If it's consistent forgetfulness, like he "forgets" it every day, sure, consequences. But one time he forgets his coat and, for the record, you did too, I just don't see the big deal.

thepanttherlady

I agree 100% with your decision. I would have also argued the coat from the Lost & Found. I can't tell you how many times my 6 yr has caught lice from the lunchtime staff making her put on a coat or sweater from there. Ugh!!

I'm in Cali so it doesn't often get cold here. Believe it or not, my little one runs very hot most of the time. I can be freezing (our version of freezing lol) and have 2 layers of clothes on and she's running around the house in just a pair of panties. I've already told her if the supervisors at school try to make her use someone else's coats/sweaters to tell them she's not allowed and if they have an issue with it they can call me!

godblessourhome

I agree with you about not taking him a coat, but I'm not sure the school is wrong to let him borrow one to go outside. They may not have the staff to leave a child inside.

I do have a question though, if you thought he was going to be wearing a coat to and from school, why was it so important for him to wear a long-sleeved shirt instead of a short-sleeved one?

good question. lol. we have a house rule that if there is frost on the car in the morning, they have to wear a long-sleeve shirt. it's not negotiable. plus, we reminded them last night when they laid out their clothes that they would need long sleeve shirts today. he didn't listen. the coat rule is 'wear it or carry it'. i don't care if they don't wear it to or from school, but they do need to bring it, in case they need it. 90% of the time, they choose to carry it.

godblessourhome

to those that have taken the time to reply, thank you!

i just wanted to update those that were concerned about lice: he didn't have to wear a lost and found coat. his brother had an extra hoodie in his backpack and gave it to him at lunch (3rd and 4th graders have lunch and recess together). it warmed up 20 degrees from this morning and the hoodie was perfect.

by the way, he found one of *his* sweatshirts in the lost and found. bonus!

NashvilleShelley

Ha! Seven pages of comments on a kid refusing to wear a winter coat....or was it a school that didn't agree with a parent?? Anyway, I asked my six year old what should have happened and he said the boy should of had to stay inside!

You are a good mom doing the best you can at the moment. Never doubt yourself. It is easy to look back and say I should have done that but at the time the best decision was made. Keep up the good work! : )

ishallnotwant

to those that have taken the time to reply, thank you!

i just wanted to update those that were concerned about lice: he didn't have to wear a lost and found coat. his brother had an extra hoodie in his backpack and gave it to him at lunch (3rd and 4th graders have lunch and recess together). it warmed up 20 degrees from this morning and the hoodie was perfect.

by the way, he found one of *his* sweatshirts in the lost and found. bonus!

Is our school the only school that has really, REALLY nice looking coats in the lost and found?? :laugh: Nobody ever seems to claim them, either. They always get donated to a local charity at the end of the semester.

knelson422

I am all for natural and logical consequences, that is how we learn. You didn't bring your coat, you are cold or don't get to go to recess. I totally understand your frustration. The school probably didn't want to have someone have to watch him during recess time. I can see why they would give him a coat, very frustrating as a parent though. I would have done the same thing. Hang in there!!!

Mcgrawhaha

i would not bring him a coat. im a mother of 5, and my kids know that i will not play thier games and that i will hold them fully responsible for bad decisions. the schools now a days want the children to be coddled until the age of 18, and i refuse.

claireputput

I so agree with the mom here but let me just for a minute play the devil's advocate! Let us pretend that I am the teacher and I do not have playground duty! Yeppie! I get to work on lesson plans and grade papers-whoops-no coat-inside with me all recess!
The other side is there are also those who will enable behavior-these folks are everywhere! I think it would be important to explain to the school why you refused to bring the coat and I so support that decision! Too many times we enable our children by reinforcing their poor choices-I am guessing that he will learn to remember that coat if he misses recess-not sure that will happen though if he is given a coat and allowed to attend recess!

sandiehawkins

Hiya, firstly would like to congratulate you for sticking to your guns!! It does take guts to do such a thing what with the worry you will be branded as a 'bad parent' Luckily for me and my two children 8yrs + 10yrs the school they go to in Wilts UK is quite good at dealing with this sort of thing. My 10yr old son had forgotten his gym kit for the second time running and went to the school office to complain that 'Mummy' had sent him to school without it! Those lovely ladies behind the desk just said 'WHO forgot it?!' and made him own up and take responsibility :O) needless to say when recieved the call to run it in for him it was made very clear that it was his responsibility and that I was doing a HUGE favour. ....put a grin on my face the whole way there! chin up! your doing a great job!

wbgolden

I disagree. I think we need to teach our children to feel entitled to everything. I also think we should wrap them in bubble wrap and feed them nothing but marshmallows. Just my opinion.

AdAstra47

it is cold here. c o l d. see-the-frost-when-you-breathe cold...

i told them to have him miss recess and do his homework during recess time, or have him attend recess without a coat and be cold to learn why he needs a coat. the school is appalled. they said they would not do either and would give him a coat from the lost and found to borrow, but to please make sure he had his own coat tomorrow.

as a parent, it is hard to teach your child responsibility. i don't want to be callous, but i also don't want to enable bad decisions. so what do you think? is this a teaching moment or is the school right in being compassionate?

I wasn't willing to read through 7 pages of responses, so I apologize if I'm repeating something someone else said, but:

As a former teacher, I have to say that schools are often the targets of lawsuits, so they tend to be paranoid and overcautious when it comes to things like this. There's no way a school would send a child out in cold temperatures without a coat; if the child later became sick, they would be liable. At my mother's school where there are a lot of low-income children who don't *own* a coat, it is standard procedure to provide a coat or sweatshirt from the lost & found whenever possible. Teachers have also been known to pool their money, buy winter wear from the local thrift shops, and keep them on hand for their low-income kids to use at recess.

As for keeping the child in at recess, what many parents don't realize is that recess time is often a teacher's only break, the only chance she has to get off her feet or go to the bathroom during the day. Federal law says that full-time employees are entitled to a 15-minute break every four hours, but the reality is that many teachers don't get this because they put the welfare & supervision of the kids ahead of their own needs. Teachers are absolutely forbidden from leaving children in the classroom unsupervised, even if it's only one child. Again, we can thank liability issues & paranoid lawyers. So every time a child is kept inside during recess, that's at least one teacher giving up her break. So from that perspective, I can also understand why the school might prefer sending him out to recess in a borrowed coat rather than just keeping him in.

I do agree with your decision not to bring him a coat, though. If you've seen the selection at most lost & founds, you know that they are usually "lost" for a reason... perhaps the embarrassment of wearing a mis-sized, ugly coat will teach your son the lesson. If not, I'm sure you can come up with some consequence for him at home, without asking the school to violate their rules & policies.

LuckyLeprechaun

Federal law says that full-time employees are entitled to a 15-minute break every four hours, but the reality is that many teachers don't get this because they put the welfare & supervision of the kids ahead of their own needs.

Actually, the reality is, teachers are exempt from this and other federal legislation regarding employment (such as overtime). All educators are. Public or private, you are not entitled to the same things a McD employee gets.

It's the law, it has little to do with the teachers' mindset.

jmehere

Yes, teaching moment. There's even a type of parenting that backs it up... Love and Logic. Natural consequences for behavior. It sounds like things worked out fine.

JasonSwetland

I think you did the right thing. Kids need to learn the consequences of their actions. I am assuming you pick him up and he doesnt have to walk home or ride a cold bus, of course, and I am sure you calculated all that into your decision. I do have bad news, though, when they are in their 20's they still do stupid stuff and forget things and call you for them.

Kenzietea2

And schools are CLUELESS!
Their standards and results keep slipping further and further, yet teachers snivel for more money while excluding potential qualified people with various union rules geared to foster an environment of entitlement. Further, parents are just as bad in that they demand that schools enable their kids to the nth degree for bad behavior instead of teaching personal responsibility. Some of the response is a result of this damned if you do, damned if you don't attitude. And then these same crybabies claim to be the big experts on kids - :laugh:

No, children need to feel the consequences for their actions, and skipping recess is not cruel or unusual.
It will make him a responsible child who grows into a can-do adult taking ownership of his life.
STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS AS A PARENT!

We should have more moms like you!

Agreeeeeeeee.

Kids are becoming wimpy, fragile, medicated little a-holes.

Of course, it is age dependent. I don't think a 4 year old can understand 'personal responsibility'
but an older child certainly can.

77tes

I totally get the point you were trying to make. However, as a former school administrator, I know why the school wants that kid wearing a coat. LIABILITY. If they punish him for not having a coat, you can sue them even if you tell them to. If he gets sick from being outside without a coat, you can sue them. If it is frosty out, I can't imagine letting a child play outside without a jacket (it sounds like neglect, so I would recommend finding another way to punish him) Isn't it funny that your original arguement with your son started because you wanted him to wear a warmer, long-sleeved shirt! Kid's can really make you crazy! I actually think the lost and found idea was a good one -- it's what I would have done, and my school was in warm LA.

hazelnut861

My son is almost 7 and no after all that I sure wouldn't. My son lost 3 jackets last winter and I made him go cold a couple morning s. Its about 50 here in the morning but he listens now and brings his coat home every day. I think yeah let him borrow one from lost and found; that was nice of them. You have responsiblities and you can't drive around dropping off coats. But according to my kid I'm "the meanest mom ever!" Hahahaha

loserforlife

As a mom you ROCK GIRL!! I think your child should have been able to learn this lesson. However it is so sad that the schools do not care what parents think. I home school so I do not deal with other people when it comes to my 6 ut I would have been very upset if I was you.

loserforlife

glad it worked out for you

godblessourhome

Isn't it funny that your original arguement with your son started because you wanted him to wear a warmer, long-sleeved shirt! Kid's can really make you crazy!

ah, irony. child, you must long-sleeve shirt so you can be warm, but forget your coat and i'll make you freeze.

christine24t

I think you're in the right.
It's a teaching moment that if you forget to do X, Y will happen.
Plus, when he's older, he and his friends will always trade stories of who has the tougher parents. Like when I tell my friends that if we kids didn't like what Dad made, so he wouldn't make something else, they're like "seriously? my parents made separate meals." Being treated with responsibility makes a kid tough...and they won't ever forget their jacket.

SONIA820

I think that the best possible out come happened. I am so glad that you stood up and said NO that you were not going to bring his coat because you obviously believe that he is old enough to be responsible for it but then the school also said no and made him wear some nasty gross coat from the lost and found. Maybe the lesson was not lost after all! I know my son would not be okay with wearing some other person's coat. Otherwise I would have done and said that same thing. I don't understand what is the big deal about making him stay in the cafeteria during recess OR go to the office.

mumof5

totally agree with your actions. it sounded like another winter day in my house (i have 4 sons and one daughter, boys dont feel the cold) the schools (in australia) are often full of teachers without kids and they seem to have no idea what its like at home. Yes i have beautiful kids but they are completley different at school, still wonderful kids but very different. You did the right think but i think you need to have a face to face talk with your sons teacher, maybe she would have a better understanding??
BTW looking at your profile pic....i cant believe you have a child old enough for school!!!