parent versus school
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I don't understand why some people are opposed to her 3rd grader having consequences for forgetting his coat.
Not everything needs a consequence. It's just not that big of a deal.
IMHO, making sure your kids knows you've got his back when the stakes are small or large, is more important.
A kid who doesn't want to wear a jacket will not grow up to be a serial murderer. There is no urgent need for her to "correct" this behavior. It holds no risk to the child or society.0 -
JJ~ I can understand different schools having different policies, and yours being one that won't hold kids accountable for certain things because of their families. However, I still think it's important for even your kiddos to learn responsibility, especially because they don't have responsible parents. Obviously, it's not their fault if they're tardy to school, but they can certainly remember home work, the correct shoes, and coats (if they have them).This argument has no weight with me. Like I told fteale, in my school, we can't hold children accountable for those things. It's not a kid's fault if their parents can't or won't be involved. You never know who has deadbeat parents, or parents that have to work 80 hours a week and can't help. Sounds like a flaw in the child's school.
I can understand how you would think this. However, I work in a county where my kids are concerned about where their next meal is coming from. I'm not holding them accountable for homework.0 -
Also lets put things in perspective. In terms of punishment, we are talking about 1 missed recess. It's not like we are talking caning.0
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JJ - Now the legal part of me is going to speak up, there would be no cause of action for the denial of recess in this situation. Schools are allowed to make rules and policies without fear of lawsuits. Failure to have a coat is a legitimate reason for denying recess to a child.
However, I do understand what you are saying about the parents needing to provide consequences at home for these types of things. It is not the school's responsibility to raise your children. I think that in this case though not allowing a child to go outside because he failed to bring a coat to school is not unreasonable. It's obviously not the same as having to stay inside and do your homework which is allowed at my school because the children are responsible for at least attempting the homework. If it's wrong or they needed help those are different things and would not lead to a punishment. I work in a county with a similar makeup and we always hold the children accountable. It makes them learn responsibility and they become better students.0 -
And schools are CLUELESS!
Their standards and results keep slipping further and further, yet teachers snivel for more money...
:noway:0 -
I don't understand why some people are opposed to her 3rd grader having consequences for forgetting his coat.
All actions, big and small, have consequences.Not everything needs a consequence. It's just not that big of a deal.
I totally agree with you. I've always got my kids' backs, but I won't enable them. I think there's a difference and you can have both.IMHO, making sure your kids knows you've got his back when the stakes are small or large, is more important.
And a child who forgets his coat and misses recess won't be traumatized for life either. He may actually learn something.A kid who doesn't want to wear a jacket will not grow up to be a serial murderer. There is no urgent need for her to "correct" this behavior. It holds no risk to the child or society.0 -
Nope. I totally agree with you. And as the parent, YOU should be able to make these kinds of calls. It's not as if you refused to buy him a coat for the winter. He made a choice not to wear it or not to remember it, and it's perfectly reasonable to want to allow him to experiences the results of that decision. It really is an effective teaching method to let the natural consequences speak for themselves.
Of course, this is one (of many) reasons why I decided that public school and my family just don't mix. I am the parent. I get final say on how my children are being raised. I will not back down on that point. As a result, homeschooling just fits us better. I'm sure if the schools knew what they would have been looking forward to for the next 12 years, then they would have thanked me for pulling my oldest daughter out. LOL
ETA: I should add that on the subject of withholding recess, I saw recess withheld from KINDERGARTNERS for far stupider reasons. My 5-year-old daughter was repeatedly forced to sit out during recess and *library*, because she didn't finish coloring on time. Seriously. Coloring. She was forced to color so much, and with such specific instructions, that she ended up hating it. It took about a year of homeschooling to deprogram the hate she associated with it, and get her to enjoy such a simple childhood activity again.0 -
I'm sorry to be the first to outright disagree here, but I'd like to give you my honest opinion.
Firstly, there is no way my kids get out the door without their coat on. As a mother, I feel that is just as much MY responsibility as theirs. If the temperature is under 55 - 60 degrees, they are wearing some kind of jacket or coat. When you let him go without his coat, you risk getting him sick, which in turn risks getting you, your spouse, and any other children you may have sick as well.
Secondly, how old is your son? I have three - who are 9, 6, and 3 - and I would NEVER let them out the door without their coat on. I feel this is just as much my responsibility as it is theirs. Their coat hangs on a double hook with their bookbag, right over their shoes, so that its all together and ready to go each day. Sure my 9 year old will say "Mom, I don't need a coat today", but I just say "You're wearing one, end of story."
Maybe I misunderstood what you said, which is possible. I just don't understand how you could walk to your car with your child, get them in the car, and not notice their coat missing. Or maybe I'm just a silly overprotective mother. Either way, I just wanted to be honest with you. I mean no offense, so if I've offended you, or anyone else, I'm sorry in advance.
I agree with this. I'm no helicopter parent, far from it. But if my daughter, two years older than yours, left the house without a coat I'd be mortified. Especially in the freezing cold. We're the parents, we're responsible. You can't pin the blame on an 8 year old. The school is calling asking that you bring your child a coat because it's freezing out and you sent them without one. I don't see how anyone could say no.
My opinion.0 -
All actions, big and small, have consequences.
Not everything *always* has a consequence. I was speeding on the way to work today, and showed up 7 minutes late. I will experience no consequences for these actions.0 -
All actions, big and small, have consequences.
Not everything *always* has a consequence. I was speeding on the way to work today, and showed up 7 minutes late. I will experience no consequences for these actions.
"consequence" doesn't mean "punishment." The consequence was that you ran the risk of getting caught, and of getting into an accident. You also weren't as late as you would have been had you not been speeding. That's also a consequence, although it's not a punishment. The consequence of me doing all my laundry yesterday is that I have clean socks today -- sometimes consequences can be positive like that. The consequence of going to school without your coat is that you get cold. It's not a punishment, it's a natural consequence.0 -
All actions, big and small, have consequences.
Not everything *always* has a consequence. I was speeding on the way to work today, and showed up 7 minutes late. I will experience no consequences for these actions.
"consequence" doesn't mean "punishment." The consequence was that you ran the risk of getting caught, and of getting into an accident. You also weren't as late as you would have been had you not been speeding. That's also a consequence, although it's not a punishment. The consequence of me doing all my laundry yesterday is that I have clean socks today -- sometimes consequences can be positive like that. The consequence of going to school without your coat is that you get cold. It's not a punishment, it's a natural consequence.
^This is so true!0 -
The consequence of that is now you feel as if you've gotten away with something, and will likely not feel hesitation to do the same thing again. In the long run this is doing you (and everyone else on the road) a great disservice, because speeding is dangerous, as well as illegal. My mom was killed because someone thought speeding was a-ok. Their previous experiences with speeding DID end up having consequences. Had they learned their lesson sooner, or in some other way, then my mom would still be alive. Nothing ever happens without some sort of consequence. Even if you don't see it right away.0
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All actions, big and small, have consequences.
Not everything *always* has a consequence. I was speeding on the way to work today, and showed up 7 minutes late. I will experience no consequences for these actions.
"consequence" doesn't mean "punishment." The consequence was that you ran the risk of getting caught, and of getting into an accident. You also weren't as late as you would have been had you not been speeding. That's also a consequence, although it's not a punishment. The consequence of me doing all my laundry yesterday is that I have clean socks today -- sometimes consequences can be positive like that. The consequence of going to school without your coat is that you get cold. It's not a punishment, it's a natural consequence.
This exactly!0 -
I do think it depends. Like if he is 4, you should probably bring the coat. But if he is old enough, let him be cold. I remember when I was 5 I forgot my shoes (I wore my slippers to school), and I made my brother take me home to get my shoes. But my parents would have NEVER brought them to me. Not in a million years!
If it was -20, and he has to walk home, you should probably bring the coat though, as it could affect his actual health. If it is not quite cold enough to do that, then who cares. He can sit inside and miss recess.0 -
my son forgot his coat this morning.
it is cold here. c o l d. see-the-frost-when-you-breathe cold. son wanted to wear a short-sleeve shirt and i made him put a long-sleeve. he was really upset and it threw the rhythm of our whole morning off so i didn't notice that he wasn't wearing a coat until he climbed out of the car at the school. i was mad, but it was too late to do anything about it (it's a 20 minute drive each way).
the school called and asked me to bring him a coat. i said 'no!'
i told them to have him miss recess and do his homework during recess time, or have him attend recess without a coat and be cold to learn why he needs a coat. the school is appalled. they said they would not do either and would give him a coat from the lost and found to borrow, but to please make sure he had his own coat tomorrow.
as a parent, it is hard to teach your child responsibility. i don't want to be callous, but i also don't want to enable bad decisions.
so what do you think? is this a teaching moment or is the school right in being compassionate?
would you bring the coat?
**if you disagree, please do so nicely. i am not a bad person or a bad mom just because you would do things differently.
Since you didn't like their decision - if he forgets again - bring the coat....
Go directly to his classroom - interrupt them - enter the classroom and give him his coat and a bunch of giant hugs n kisses with all the accompanying little boy sweet nicknames in front of all his classmates and he probably won't forget again.0 -
Simple fact is school faculty cannot allow a child to go out in the cold without appropriate attire. Parents can (and do) sue the school system for far sillier things. They need to protect themselves in that regard.
Sad, but true!0 -
I would call back and specifically inform the school that he does not have your permission to go outside from recess. Wearing some old lost coat sounds like an invitation to head lice - YUCK. He can miss recess for one day and survive.0
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Also lets put things in perspective. In terms of punishment, we are talking about 1 missed recess. It's not like we are talking caning.
:flowerforyou:0 -
I don't think you're a bad mother. I think you sound like a great mother
BUT, my eldest is 7, and I would've brought the coat. I have guilt issues.....constantly feel guilty.....and so guilt would've made me drive the 20 mins to the school.
Also the thought of what the school would 'think' of me.
But you stood your ground on what you believed to be right, and for that I applaud you, well done.
You know, as much as I lauded natural consequences earlier, the reality is that a month or so ago my son (7) forgot his coat, and in my haste to rush us all out the door I didn't notice till he got out of the car for the bus. I admit that I ran home and got him his coat and took it all the way to school (and was late for work). I guess it is a judgment call-- in that case, my son had a sweatshirt on that he thought was adequate (it wasn't), and wasn't really being irresponsible. I kicked myself for not looking at him on the way out the door! haha
You know your child-- if he needs to learn the consequences of his actions, go for it. If it was an honest or silly mistake, and it's feasible to help out, go for it.0 -
All actions, big and small, have consequences.
Not everything *always* has a consequence. I was speeding on the way to work today, and showed up 7 minutes late. I will experience no consequences for these actions.
"consequence" doesn't mean "punishment." The consequence was that you ran the risk of getting caught, and of getting into an accident. You also weren't as late as you would have been had you not been speeding. That's also a consequence, although it's not a punishment. The consequence of me doing all my laundry yesterday is that I have clean socks today -- sometimes consequences can be positive like that. The consequence of going to school without your coat is that you get cold. It's not a punishment, it's a natural consequence.
missing recess, or being humiliated by being forced to wwear ugly/yucky clothing, IS a punishment. And imho, it doesn't fit the "crime". He's a kid, he forgot. She's the Mom, she also forgot. Where's her "consequence"?0 -
My children's school has a policy that he would have been sent to acedemic recess (I know that is a complete oxymoron! LOL). He would not have been allowed outside in the extreme cold without a coat. I doubt they would have called about a coat....maybe a note from the teacher at the end of the day that explained that he did have to stay in due to his lack of coat.
I personally think you were in the right by not taking the coat to him....there is nothing wrong with tough love. Especially since he had already gave you a fit about dressing approrpriately. Sometimes you have to let them try things "their way" and learn from first hand experience.
Just the other day at our school bus stop the neightbor boy came out in 1-degree wind chill with his coat hanging wide open and no hat or gloves. I could read his grandmother's face instantly that a battle had ensued before they came to the stop. She finally decided if he thought he was so smart & sure about how warm he would be, he could have at it it. It took less that 30 seconds for him to zip his coat and find gloves that were tucked in his pockets. He proceeded to wait for the bus with is hands covering his freezing ears. Grandma wispered to me, "I certainly hope he learned his lesson!" LOL0 -
While I agree that it's a teaching moment.... learn to be responsible for yourself and your stuff, I can also see the school's point. To have a child indoors during recess requires supervision, who would that responsibility fall to? This is probably the only time during the day that the teacher has to regroup (I think I'd pull my hair out if I had to spend day in, day out with children, let alone not getting any break during the day). And if it's cold enough that you can see your breath a child should not be outside without a coat, if I were responsible for another person's child I would definitely not allow that child outdoors without a coat.
Agreed - which I assume is why the school had him borrow a coat from the lost and found rather than have him sit inside.
To have a child indoors during recess requires supervision, who would that responsibility fall to? This is probably the only time during the day that the teacher has to regroup (I think I'd pull my hair out if I had to spend day in, day out with children, let alone not getting any break during the day).
-Yes but that is what they get paid to do and it was their choice. If the child had been misbehaving in class he would have had to stay in. So why is this situation different.
OP your being a good mom. it can sometimes be very hard to find ways to teach them these things when they legally have to spend so much time in school.0 -
I don't think from your story that it remotely resembles a bad mom, so no worries there. Boys are troublesome and will do whatever it takes to "look cool", my little brother used to do this all the time. You should have stuck with your gut and made him go outside. It's not so cool when you've got frostbite.
Have you ever seen the coats schools have in the "lost and found?" I'm sure whatever they gave him was ANYTHING but cool. I think either way he probably learned a couple lessons. (1) My mom won't drive back to school to give me a coat I actually like if I forget it. (2) If I DO forget my coat, I have to wear this lost and found coat from 1970 and all the kids make fun of me.
I feel like it's a win/win. The school shouldn't be judging you for sure, but I don't think you should spend time being upset about it. I'm sure he learned his lesson. And if not, he'll learn it next time...0 -
I wouldn't and haven't taken the kids coats/backpacks/homework when they forget it. They have rules that they have to follow at home, for instance, when they are done with their homework, it goes back in their bags and hung up by the door with their jackets, I tell them as soon as they are done to do this, I tell them to hang up their jackets as soon as they get home. If you don't follow the rules, then sorry, sorry your cold, sorry for your 0 on your homework, maybe you should try harder next time, and you better ask your teacher for extra credit to make up your final grade. I have 6 kids, me and my husband work full time and he goes to school at night. No, I don't give each kid full concentration every minute of every day and I don't coddle them unless they need it. Teaching responsibility is huge part of parenting.
My son couldn't find his jacket this morning, it was 39 outside. They walk to school, but it's just around the block. He had his hat, gloves a sweater. And I sent him to school. Why? Because yesterday, he was supposed to clean his room and pick up all the crap that was on the floor, including his jacket. His room was clean in 10 minutes, which means he shoved everything somewhere instead of putting it away, I know this because I clean out the kids rooms twice a year and throw away all the stuff that is just shoved somewhere. Tonight, when he gets home, he will go in his room without a word from me and he will put stuff where it goes and he will find his jacket.
The school won't call me, (they don't like me very much) and they won't give him a jacket because they already know I would throw a huge fit (All my kids got lice about 3 years ago). He will more than likely sit in the office today and work through recess.
I don't expect the schools to parent my children for me, I do expect them to respect the way I parent my children though, I'm required to have them at the school Monday through Friday, and you are responsible for my children during that time, and you need to work with me. And for the most part they do. Hell, the biggest problem I have with the school is rewarding my kids with candy and sodas. My kids only get junk food on "party days" at home.0 -
I see this more as the school covering their @$$ from lawsuits, which is sadly the reason for most school policies nowadays. If they hadn't called you, and your son complained that he didn't get recess/was too cold, and you weren't a good parent- you could call and scream at them for endangering your son blah blah blah.
I don't think what you did was unreasonable, you son obviously knew it was cold outside because you had just had a discussion about his long sleeve shirt. He should have to deal with the consequences of not being warm enough, or not allowed to go outside. If my mom had done that, you bet your bottom I'd remember to bring my coat.0 -
I wouldn't have brought the coat either and would have made it absolutely clear that my son was not to borrow someone's coat from lost and found (lice, germs, etc). Some have mentioned the age of the child may make a difference as to what they would do - by first grade the kids should know better and have to deal with consequences of their actions and responsibility. I don't think you're a bad mom, and I think your son's school is out of line. In our school if kids don't have the right cold weather gear, they are either inside reading/homework during recess or can only play on the blacktop which is really boring. Stick to your guns.0
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i went through this also this morning with my 12 year old, who is in generally VERY responsible. I follow the thought that I am here to teach my daughters to be forward thinking, independent, and responsible. This morning about 10 minutes before the bus she says, " mom, have you seen my coat??" My response was Autumn your coat doesn't fit me!!! long of it she left it in her aunts car yesterday when we met for breakfast.... she had to wear a wore jacket and luckily she dosn't have resess any more....
I would have been fruious with the school and would have made it a point to reach out to the principle... last time i checked i was on their birth certificate, not the school...
I'm not a huge advicate of homeschooling, i understand all of the pro's and con's, just believe that in order for youngsters to learn how to deal with people, share, and to experience certain situtation so they know how to deal them it is important to go to school. But I hate when ever the school tries to tell me. We always were getting in trouble for the "free" days I give my girls. they are great studnents and if I keep them from school for a mommy day, I should be able to do that without getting notices from the school. with missing school my girls still both have GPA of 95% or higher0 -
All actions, big and small, have consequences.
Not everything *always* has a consequence. I was speeding on the way to work today, and showed up 7 minutes late. I will experience no consequences for these actions.
"consequence" doesn't mean "punishment." The consequence was that you ran the risk of getting caught, and of getting into an accident. You also weren't as late as you would have been had you not been speeding. That's also a consequence, although it's not a punishment. The consequence of me doing all my laundry yesterday is that I have clean socks today -- sometimes consequences can be positive like that. The consequence of going to school without your coat is that you get cold. It's not a punishment, it's a natural consequence.
missing recess, or being humiliated by being forced to wwear ugly/yucky clothing, IS a punishment. And imho, it doesn't fit the "crime". He's a kid, he forgot. She's the Mom, she also forgot. Where's her "consequence"?
my 'consequence' is what the school staff thinks of me. they may think i am a negligent parent for allowing my child to come to school without a coat on a cold day, and they definitely have a problem with me not bringing one to him. this may change our daily relationship (i volunteer in the boys' school every wednesday). i also have a consequence from my son forgetting his coat. it may not be as evident as having to wear a lost and found coat, but it is there.0 -
I used to get chastized by the counselor at grade school for taking my daughter's lunch or homework to her when she forgot it occasionally. If I was able to take it I would, if I was at work and couldn't, I told her no and felt awful. (OK, I did it in high school too) She graduated with honors from high school and The University of Texas, so I do not regret helping her out when she called for my help with "the little stuff".0
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my son forgot his coat this morning.
it is cold here. c o l d. see-the-frost-when-you-breathe cold. son wanted to wear a short-sleeve shirt and i made him put a long-sleeve. he was really upset and it threw the rhythm of our whole morning off so i didn't notice that he wasn't wearing a coat until he climbed out of the car at the school. i was mad, but it was too late to do anything about it (it's a 20 minute drive each way).
the school called and asked me to bring him a coat. i said 'no!'
i told them to have him miss recess and do his homework during recess time, or have him attend recess without a coat and be cold to learn why he needs a coat. the school is appalled. they said they would not do either and would give him a coat from the lost and found to borrow, but to please make sure he had his own coat tomorrow.
as a parent, it is hard to teach your child responsibility. i don't want to be callous, but i also don't want to enable bad decisions. so what do you think? is this a teaching moment or is the school right in being compassionate?
would you bring the coat?
**if you disagree, please do so nicely. i am not a bad person or a bad mom just because you would do things differently.
Since you didn't like their decision - if he forgets again - bring the coat....
Go directly to his classroom - interrupt them - enter the classroom and give him his coat and a bunch of giant hugs n kisses with all the accompanying little boy sweet nicknames in front of all his classmates and he probably won't forget again.
LOVE this response!!! defiantly will be filing this for when I need it :laugh: thanks0
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