Teacher Criticisms...(rant)
Replies
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Before you start comparing salaries you have to realize that the STARTING pay for a teacher is a lot lower then a teacher who has been in the field for years. But you know how teachers imrpove their salaries? by continuing their education into masters degree, but guess what? School districts DO NOT pay for this education, the teachers do. I know that in other professions trainning and things are usually, and notice i said usually paid for. So maybe if we took the cost of those extra degree programs out of the salaries being reported then the story would be alot different.0
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The four most underpaid careers - Military, Teachers, Police Department and Fire Department. I admire them all and am amazed everyday that we don't show them enough respect. Let's pay the football players (some who couldn't even complete college and didn't do that well in high school) millions while some teachers can barely get by. Don't get me wrong, I love football, but who thinks this is right?0
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Our education system needs more real business people and less career teachers, and maybe a results oriented system could demand the kind of pay worthy of a real profession.
silliness. the business model in education will *never* work.0 -
Competition improves any product. There are many different models that have great siccess, but are opposed to by the NEA.Our education system needs more real business people and less career teachers, and maybe a results oriented system could demand the kind of pay worthy of a real profession.
silliness. the business model in education will *never* work.0 -
This is simply my opinion and you can disagree all you like, but PUH-LEASE! You can chose to make your day as easy or as difficult as you like. If you care about your students, you're going to have a more packed day, if you choose to sit back and relax, your day is going to be a breeze. I've had good teachers, and bad teachers but seriously, the job cannot be as bad as you're all making it out to seem. You get weekends off, multiple weeks throughout the year off, plus 2 months during the summer off. Give me a break, if your job is that difficult or you're not enjoying it (not saying you guys don't) then find a job where you do enjoy yourself. Teachers should be prepared for the work load, and love children. If you're not and you don't, then keep flipping through the book of careers till you find something you like. My sister-in-law is a fourth grade teacher and all she does is complain about how the students shouldn't be in the class or are acting like brats... blah blah blah... I just want to tell her to find a job where she'll actually care about it. If you're just going to complain all day about things at your job then move on.
No body here is saying they don't like their job. They are saying it is hard work. I work in a school for naughty boys. You say we can sit back and relax when You work in a school what do you think those students will be doing while i kickback with my feet up. I work in a school for children who would be beating each other to a pulp using anything they could get there hands on. I get swore at every single day sometime I have to seperate 2 15-16 year old boys from fighting and get caught in the cross fire. If our teachers kicked back and relaxed while in the class room 95% of our students would be in jail by the end of the week for ABH the only reason these lads stay out of jail is because us teachers show them the positive side and that someone cares. Over 50% of our students have tags on.0 -
Well said!0
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What Do Teachers Make?
by Author Unknown
The dinner guests were sitting around the table discussing life. One man, a CEO, decided to explain the problem with education.
He argued: "What's a kid going to learn from someone who decided his best option in life was to become a teacher?"
He reminded the other dinner guests that it's true what they say about teachers: "Those who can...do. Those who can't...teach."
To corroborate, he said to another guest: "You're a teacher, Susan," he said. "Be honest. What do you make?"
Susan, who had a reputation of honesty and frankness, replied, "You want to know what I make?"
"I make kids work harder than they ever thought they could."
“I make kids believe in themselves when no one else will.”
"I make a C+ feel like a Congressional Medal of Honor and an A- feel like a slap in the face if the student did not do his or her very best."
"I make parents tremble in fear when I call home"
"You want to know what I make?
"I make kids wonder."
"I make them question."
"I make them criticize."
"I make them apologize and mean it."
"I make them write."
"I make them read, read, read."
"I make them spell definitely beautiful, definitely beautiful, and definitely beautiful over and over and over again, until they will never misspell either one of those words again."
"I make them show all their work in math and hide it all on their final drafts in English."
"I make them understand that if you have a dream, then follow it...and if someone ever tries to judge you by what you make or what you do, you pay them no attention."
"You want to know what I make?!"
"I make a difference."
"What about you?"
FANTASTIC!0 -
Referring specifically to public school teachers...
I am a state employee also. I am paid an annual salary less than yours. You are off through the whole of June and July while I work. But you tell me that you can't teach my child for 8 hours a day for 180 days out of the year. This same child that I teach at home and deal with for that remaining time that you don't. Granted, there are other children to teach, but sometimes this is just hard for me to swallow. I actually don't mind paying teachers more, but I do want them to teach my child and not give up halfway through the year just because she is one of your more challenging students.0 -
It's not so black and white. There is so much wrong on so many levels. SO many parents don't do their part, and So many teachers don't do there's. I'm in and out of different classrooms every day, I see many excellent teachers, and I see many horrible teachers.
To me, it's not really a matter of who's to blame. The fact is that as a nation, we are failing our students. And something different needs to be done.
I have two graduated, one graduates this year and one next year. If I had to do it again, no way in hell would my kids be in this school system.
This is very true. That's why I, as a teacher, support merit-based pay.
ME TOO! I've worked in public and private high schools, community colleges and universities, and teacher should get paid what they are worth, not for the number of years they have been teaching.0 -
Not all teachers are cut from the same cloth.. just as not all students are the same.0
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What Do Teachers Make?
by Author Unknown
The dinner guests were sitting around the table discussing life. One man, a CEO, decided to explain the problem with education.
He argued: "What's a kid going to learn from someone who decided his best option in life was to become a teacher?"
He reminded the other dinner guests that it's true what they say about teachers: "Those who can...do. Those who can't...teach."
To corroborate, he said to another guest: "You're a teacher, Susan," he said. "Be honest. What do you make?"
Susan, who had a reputation of honesty and frankness, replied, "You want to know what I make?"
"I make kids work harder than they ever thought they could."
“I make kids believe in themselves when no one else will.”
"I make a C+ feel like a Congressional Medal of Honor and an A- feel like a slap in the face if the student did not do his or her very best."
"I make parents tremble in fear when I call home"
"You want to know what I make?
"I make kids wonder."
"I make them question."
"I make them criticize."
"I make them apologize and mean it."
"I make them write."
"I make them read, read, read."
"I make them spell definitely beautiful, definitely beautiful, and definitely beautiful over and over and over again, until they will never misspell either one of those words again."
"I make them show all their work in math and hide it all on their final drafts in English."
"I make them understand that if you have a dream, then follow it...and if someone ever tries to judge you by what you make or what you do, you pay them no attention."
"You want to know what I make?!"
"I make a difference."
"What about you?"
SAUCE:
http://youtu.be/EzT5iKpxjFA
: DD0 -
A friend posted this a while back:
]
Fed up with teachers and their hefty salary guides. What we need here is a little perspective. If I had my way, I'd pay these teachers myself...I'd pay them babysitting wages.
That's right...instead of paying these out-rageous taxes, I'd give them $3.00 an hour out of my own pocket. And, I'm only going to pay them for five hours, not coffee breaks. That would be $15.00 a day. Each parent should pay $15.00 a day for these teachers to babysit their children. Even if they have more than one child, it's still cheaper than private daycare.
Now how many children do they teach a day - maybe twenty? That's $15.00 X 20 = $300.00 a day.
But remember, they only work 180 days a year! I'm not going to pay them for all those vacations.
$300 X 180 = $54,000. (Just a minute, I think my calculator needs batteries.)
I know you teachers will say what about those who have ten years of experience and a master's degree? Well, maybe (just to be fair) they could get the minimum wage, and instead of just babysitting, they could read the kids a story. We can round that off to about $5.00 an hour, times five hours, times twenty children. $5.00 X 5 X 20.
That's $500 a day times 180 days. That's $90,000.
HUH???? Wait a minute. Let's get a little perspective here.
Babysitting wages are too good for those teachers. Did anyone see a salary guide around here???!0 -
Before you start comparing salaries you have to realize that the STARTING pay for a teacher is a lot lower then a teacher who has been in the field for years. But you know how teachers imrpove their salaries? by continuing their education into masters degree, but guess what? School districts DO NOT pay for this education, the teachers do. I know that in other professions trainning and things are usually, and notice i said usually paid for. So maybe if we took the cost of those extra degree programs out of the salaries being reported then the story would be alot different.
Ha, yes. With a masters degree I would have made $500 more A YEAR than with a BA. And a PhD $1000. That's it. It's crazy.0 -
Referring specifically to public school teachers...
I am a state employee also. I am paid an annual salary less than yours. You are off through the whole of June and July while I work. But you tell me that you can't teach my child for 8 hours a day for 180 days out of the year. This same child that I teach at home and deal with for that remaining time that you don't. Granted, there are other children to teach, but sometimes this is just hard for me to swallow. I actually don't mind paying teachers more, but I do want them to teach my child and not give up halfway through the year just because she is one of your more challenging students.
Just as I chose to be a teacher - you chose to have a child - this post sounds like you'd appreciate a boarding school!0 -
I would love to know what the hours are that some of you who are teachers I hear a lot of people talk about how they are criticized for their day ending at 3:30pm when does your day officially start? I know for one that my son's school the teachers do not arrive until 8am since school doesn't start until 9:00am. We can go around on this topic for hours but everyone can argue their job is stressful with no thanks at the end of it. Not every job offers to pay your masters program I know mine didn't. I also hear a lot of generalization about parents. Not every parent is uninvolved with their children. Just because a parent can't be at the school in the middle of the day on a teachers whim does not mean they are uninvolved. Their will always be children with behavior problems but that is part of the job.0
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NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND (a tragic and stupid piece of legislation that has NOT worked)
^^This ABSOLUTELY!!
When exactly were they going to fix this in Washington again?
It IS being talked about.......................and the more that people protest it, the quicker it will disappear !
They're too busy trying to "fix" our healthcare system.0 -
YES!!!! I have been a teacher for 10 years and it was as though you were reading my mind!0
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As the wife of a teacher, I couldn't agree more. I would love to hear ONE job that is more important than a teachers! There wouldn't be doctors or lawyers or CEO's without teachers!
And, I don't know who some of you think you are, but teachers don't have all the time off you seem to think they do. My husband is in his office at home on the weekends and on breaks, working on lesson plans and grading papers. He does have more time in the summer to relax and enjoy his own children, but he deserves that time for some of the things he has to deal with all year long.0 -
First off, I am a teacher.
I teach in a community/technological college. I see the product of the American education system and all I can say is that if I worked on a production line and put out that kind of a product, I would be fired.
I enjoy teaching older students because they recognize the value of spelling and grammar as well as making a study schedule. They work hard and expect a lot from themselves.
The younger group, for the most part, have no clue what a study schedule is, expect to not have homework, can't spell, have no concept of capitalizing the first word of a sentence or using punctuation, and can't do simple math without a calculator. Additionally, they have no research skills, believe any of the Wiki sites are suitable for research papers, copy and paste without citations, and then wonder why I gave them an 'F' on their paper.
I have to re-teach every student who comes out of schools these days. I have to have them bring in calendars and create a study schedule. I have to explain to them how to take notes, how to do assignments, and how to study for tests. I still have students that will ask me what is on the tests because they can't seem to grasp an understanding of what is important and what isn't important, even when I stand up and say, "Now this is important, so pay attention."
They want every test to be a multiple choice test. They panic when they have to write out a paragraph for short answer essay. Half the time I have to find an interpreter to read their printing. They don't know how to write in cursive. Those that do write must be going on to be doctors because I sometimes have to ask who the paper belongs to or what it says.
They call me at all hours of the day, and sometimes at night, because everything is an 'emergency'. They can't follow the syllabus. Most don't hand in assignments on time and some even insist that the assignments are optional according to the school. If they were optional, would I have assigned them points and included the points in the final point count?
Few students coming out of school have logic or reasoning abilities. They can't read well enough to understand the material that is presented to them. Simple words stump them, so you can imagine what larger words associated with Anatomy and Physiology do to them. They can't form complete sentences and half their sentences make no sense.
I wouldn't worry so much if this was just one or two students coming out of highschool. Unfortunately, this has been about 95% of the students coming out of highschool. That's another thing: I put the number of points that they get correct on their test and they can't figure out the percentage that they got on the test. I have to do it for them!!
What people don't realize is that the ACT, PSAT, and SAT (tests used for college placement) have been dumbed-down so that the students today can get an acceptable score! Otherwise, there would only be Asian, Middle East, African, and European students in our colleges and universities.
Do I think that teachers deserve a raise? Not when they are producing the students that I have to re-teach every block.
The raises that teachers receive should be tied to how well their students do. Yes, there are students whose parents don't encourage them. Yes, there are students who don't want to crack open a book. I've had some of those as well. You motivate them. You talk with the parents and motivate them as well. If they are not interested in their child's education, then you talk to Social Service and Child Protection.
I homeschooled both my children from fifth grade on. Why? My daughter kept being passed on to the next grade even though she could not read, so I took the reins and pulled her out of school. She is an avid reader now and an electrician. My son kept getting beat up in fifth grade by a gang of girls. They didn't just beat up him, they beat up other boys as well. He ended up with a concussion and fractured ribs, so I pulled him out of school. This happened in the playground in front of playground monitors, by the way! He is now an honor student at Penn State. They both scored higher than children who went through public and private schooling on their placement tests.
We live in a society where knowledge is necessary to make a living, yet our students are not being educated well enough to prepare them well enough to make a living. They can't balance their check books, read, write, think for themselves, think logically, perform math, etc. They don't have the motivation to do anything other than what is asked of them. They need their hands held for just about everything. In Europe, adolescents are cognizant of the world and their place in it. In America, adolescents are cognizant of only themselves and what's in it for them.
I blame this on a school system who wants to make every child feel good. The every child is a winner concept is ridiculous because it makes children less motivated. Why excel if you are not going to be recognized for what you do? So every child produced will be mediocre at best and that is pretty much what I am seeing in the community colleges today.0 -
I was thinking about that same forward. Sadly teachers aren't paid enough.0
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My wife taught school for 2 years, then gave up in frustration faced with the entitlement mentality rampant in education, including the endless sniveling.
This is one of the biggest issues in education today, and is also manifesting in college level courses (well, has been for the last several years already). Many parents and students have a great feeling of entitlement. Students want a passing grade for hardly doing anything and an A for doing average.
And for those who like to talk about "bad" teachers - that needs to be defined before some sort of merit pay system can really work (AND educators need to be treated like professionals in order for that to work as well). In my state, the average middle schooler reads at a third grade level. When school materials that are provided are written at a reading level for a certain grade, and a majority of students don't read at that level, what is the teacher supposed to do? Additionally, with higher levels of reading comprehension come higher levels of critical thinking, so teaching students the subject they are supposed to be taught at those levels becomes problematic. Another aspect are schools that serve students from lower socioeconomic backgrounds - typically those students have less support at home and lower reading/comprehension abilities and cannot perform at certain levels on standardized tests (not because they're not fundamentally capable, but because of an accumulation of things over the years). Then, you have a classroom with all different levels of abilities. The slowest and the fastest get left behind because things have to be taught for the majority - there just aren't enough hours in the day to vary lessons for all levels. It's a shame, but there are things all over that need to be fixed.
EVERYONE needs to take responsibility. Parents need to support at home - make their kids sit down and do homework, read with them to improve their skills, hold students accountable for their own actions (refusal to do homework or classwork, bullying, etc), hold teachers accountable if they provide all kinds of free time or do not give homework, and hold administration accountable for supporting teachers when they need to discipline.
This is a societal and cultural issue, not solely an educational system/teacher issue.0 -
My first shudder of the day.They're too busy trying to "fix" our healthcare system.0 -
I would love to know what the hours are that some of you who are teachers I hear a lot of people talk about how they are criticized for their day ending at 3:30pm when does your day officially start?
The kids start coming in at 7:30. I arrive at 6:30 on most days, to make sure I am adequately prepared. Usually leave about 4:30. I don't get a lunch break. I eat with my kids. Do you work 10 hours without a break?
ETA: I forgot to add the hours I spend grading things at home in the evenings, and on weekends, and the hours I spend crying because of the way I see parents treat their kids.Not every job offers to pay your masters program I know mine didn't.
This is misinformation, at least in my state. The government (my "boss") did not pay for my degree. I did.0 -
I would love to know what the hours are that some of you who are teachers I hear a lot of people talk about how they are criticized for their day ending at 3:30pm when does your day officially start? I know for one that my son's school the teachers do not arrive until 8am since school doesn't start until 9:00am. We can go around on this topic for hours but everyone can argue their job is stressful with no thanks at the end of it. Not every job offers to pay your masters program I know mine didn't. I also hear a lot of generalization about parents. Not every parent is uninvolved with their children. Just because a parent can't be at the school in the middle of the day on a teachers whim does not mean they are uninvolved. Their will always be children with behavior problems but that is part of the job.
Offically, my day starts at 7 am. I get to work about 6:30 in order to be able to get ready for the little people that will walk through my door at 7:15.0 -
I would love to know what the hours are that some of you who are teachers I hear a lot of people talk about how they are criticized for their day ending at 3:30pm when does your day officially start? I know for one that my son's school the teachers do not arrive until 8am since school doesn't start until 9:00am. We can go around on this topic for hours but everyone can argue their job is stressful with no thanks at the end of it. Not every job offers to pay your masters program I know mine didn't. I also hear a lot of generalization about parents. Not every parent is uninvolved with their children. Just because a parent can't be at the school in the middle of the day on a teachers whim does not mean they are uninvolved. Their will always be children with behavior problems but that is part of the job.
My husband is at school no later than 7am every day. He doesn't get home until after 5pm every day. AND, he spends time every evening and on the weekends working on lesson plans and grading work. While not every parent is uninvolved or difficult, it only takes a few to cause severe problems and major stress.0 -
This is simply my opinion and you can disagree all you like, but PUH-LEASE! You can chose to make your day as easy or as difficult as you like. If you care about your students, you're going to have a more packed day, if you choose to sit back and relax, your day is going to be a breeze. I've had good teachers, and bad teachers but seriously, the job cannot be as bad as you're all making it out to seem. You get weekends off, multiple weeks throughout the year off, plus 2 months during the summer off. Give me a break, if your job is that difficult or you're not enjoying it (not saying you guys don't) then find a job where you do enjoy yourself. Teachers should be prepared for the work load, and love children. If you're not and you don't, then keep flipping through the book of careers till you find something you like. My sister-in-law is a fourth grade teacher and all she does is complain about how the students shouldn't be in the class or are acting like brats... blah blah blah... I just want to tell her to find a job where she'll actually care about it. If you're just going to complain all day about things at your job then move on.
No body here is saying they don't like their job. They are saying it is hard work. I work in a school for naughty boys. You say we can sit back and relax when You work in a school what do you think those students will be doing while i kickback with my feet up. I work in a school for children who would be beating each other to a pulp using anything they could get there hands on. I get swore at every single day sometime I have to seperate 2 15-16 year old boys from fighting and get caught in the cross fire. If our teachers kicked back and relaxed while in the class room 95% of our students would be in jail by the end of the week for ABH the only reason these lads stay out of jail is because us teachers show them the positive side and that someone cares. Over 50% of our students have tags on.
You clearly misunderstood my post. Read the brackets, and I said "not saying you guys don't." Read it again, and I said, "If you care about your students, you're going to have a more packed day, if you choose to sit back and relax, your day is going to be a breeze" Meaning, those that care are going to have a stressful day, ergo, if your day is stressful, it proves you care.0 -
What parents forget is that YOU decided to have these children and if you didn't want to have to look after YOUR child for all of the school holidays YOU shouldn't have had them. My mum is also a teacher and growning up every evening she would spend time helping me with MY homework and then would start on the work for the 20 or so children she teachs throughout the day.
If I could have 4 weeks holiday like some of you and take them whenever I want so I don't have to pay HUGE costs because of the school holiday I would be more than happy with that. But on my Teaching Assitant wages I cannot afford to go on holiday when I am off school because the price is so much.0 -
It's not so black and white. There is so much wrong on so many levels. SO many parents don't do their part, and So many teachers don't do there's. I'm in and out of different classrooms every day, I see many excellent teachers, and I see many horrible teachers.
To me, it's not really a matter of who's to blame. The fact is that as a nation, we are failing our students. And something different needs to be done.
I have two graduated, one graduates this year and one next year. If I had to do it again, no way in hell would my kids be in this school system.
Well said! I think there is a huge gap in the playing field between inner city schools and suburban schools and it shows in the graduation statistics. This is due to many things...1st and foremost I believe that parents don't play a strong enough role in their child's education and upbringing. 2. There are many inner city teachers that are just sick and tired of disrespectful non-caring students that their parents don't discipline or raise properly. 3. I think the schools in the inner city are severely underfunded while the property values in suburbia are much higher therefore have more money for their schools.
My girls went to charter school during their elementary years and then transferred to public middle school where there was demise in their honor roll grades. My youngest attended The Junior Naval Academy in High School and went on to receive a full ride academic scholarship to Truman University, but my oldest daughter never bounced back from the failings of middle school. Yes I was involved in my girls' education, but the school system is broken and many inner city teachers are just fed up and don't care anymore. Why should they when 90% of the kids don't but then my daughter that falls in the 10% doesn't get the education she deserves.
Its a sad situation but its happening! 0 -
I have tons of friends that are teachers... it's a 50/50 job... teacher isn't as easy as everyone claims it to be... however the time off somewhat makes up for that. At least they get paid year round now...
Technically, the pay isn't year round. You just choose to have your salary "spread out" and get less of it during the school year. Or you just get it all during the months you work. So either way, you are getting the same pay.0 -
Before I get attacked, I taught elementary emotional support to put myself through grad school and my husband is a teacher for kids with autism..so it's not like I don't understand. I'm now a school psychologist and work in a school for end of the line kids with behavioral problems. I loved teaching, my husband LOVES his job, and I now love being a school psychologist...I still get punched in the face weekly...so I get it, it's tough. And while I agree full-heartedly that teachers do not get the respect that they deserve, I do not believe that most are underpaid or overworked <---in most situations// Again, I have all the respect in the world ...for MOST teachers.
Teaching should be something that you love to do. I get so angry when I hear teachers tell me that they are not paid enough to deal with *that* kid or spend that much time doing lesson plans. It's your job! If you don't absolutely love working with kids and you are outraged at the salary that you make, you should probably do something else.0
This discussion has been closed.
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