Teacher Criticisms...(rant)

chanstriste13

.... making about 50K a year off our tax dollars, summers/vacations/snow days off.

yep, that teacher should definitely be fired and sent to jail.

but i can't stand it when people bring up the 'our tax dollars' argument. we pay taxes too. so technically, we pay our own salaries. :grumble:

KimmieBrie

.... making about 50K a year off our tax dollars, summers/vacations/snow days off.

yep, that teacher should definitely be fired and sent to jail.

but i can't stand it when people bring up the 'our tax dollars' argument. we pay taxes too. so technically, we pay our own salaries. :grumble:

ahhhh touche :flowerforyou:

VegesaurusRex

.... making about 50K a year off our tax dollars, summers/vacations/snow days off.

yep, that teacher should definitely be fired and sent to jail.

but i can't stand it when people bring up the 'our tax dollars' argument. we pay taxes too. so technically, we pay our own salaries. :grumble:

I wish.

I once went into the teachers lounge at our local school. There was a poster on the wall I will never forget. It read:

THE THREE BEST THINGS ABOUT BEING A TEACHER : JUNE, JULY AND AUGUST

chanstriste13

Our education system needs more real business people and less career teachers, and maybe a results oriented system could demand the kind of pay worthy of a real profession.

silliness. the business model in education will *never* work.

Competition improves any product. There are many different models that have great siccess, but are opposed to by the NEA.

children are not products. it's not a factory line with some assembly required. silliness.

Children are not beans in a bag either. All are different. They need different things. They are individuals. Public schools as they are today cannot provide what is needed.

huh? i get what you're saying,but i'm not really sure how it relates to the silly suggestion of using business practices in schools. i would think that children are not products = children are not beans in a bag, so i'm a little confused at your response.

erinkeely4

<<<<<<< Homeschooling parent... Guess yelling at my wife is out of the question huh? :laugh:

I was homeschooled! Unschooled, to be specific, which is a more radical version of homeschooling. It was awesome

chanstriste13

To sum up what I really hate about public schools : they do not cater to the individual - just like the military, you are just a number. You cannot go faster than the class - you cannot go slower. And in fairness to the teachers, they cannot kick a punk in the a@@.

I went to public school and I loved it. We had ability grouping and it was like being in a private school with all the others looking up to you. Great status.

You obviously have not heard of differentiated instruction. In my classrooms, I had my reading, math and spelling all split up into small groups based on learning level. I had first graders reading chapter books and doing basic algebra in my classroom... each group worked according to their ability level. Planning 4-5 different lesson plans for each subject wasn't easy, but the kids benefited from it.

And, I also was home schooled grades 6-9. It is very easy to say you accomplished so much with the home school students because they have 150% support at home, are being taught a lesson catered to just them, and (in my experience) are a higher ability level than the most of the students in public school. I wish I could write a lesson plan individualized for each and every student, but in reality, 30+ lesson plans for every subject throughout the day is not possible. I group students (differentiate my instruction) and meet their needs that way. I also, along with my fellow teachers, have created special projects for the gifted students to work on in order to provide more challenges for them and to build higher level thinking skills.

Paying teachers by the number of students they attract and keep makes no sense to me. Students move, parents don't make them come to school, and there are some who are just not bright. It is not my fault, nor should my pay be less because I have a student who shows up only 50% of the time, or another who is functioning in 6th grade on a 2nd grade level.

You are right. I have not heard of differentiated instruction. I have heard of ability grouping, however, and that seems to make more sense than "differentiated instruction" for a number of reasons.

First, if you put all the kids of about the same ability level in ONE classroom, then you do not have to have multiple lesson plans for a number of groups. You need only one lesson plan, and you make it for the ability level of your class. This means, of course no mainstreaming of problem kids. They all get to say together. In my Latin class, I had an answer for differentiated ability. I flunked those who couldn't keep up and kicked them out of the class. Parents didn't like it but c'est la vie.

smirk-chortle-chuckle. you must have a charmed kind of school. this wouldn't work in a lot of places. you know we're not allowed to flunk students, right?

VegesaurusRex

Our education system needs more real business people and less career teachers, and maybe a results oriented system could demand the kind of pay worthy of a real profession.

silliness. the business model in education will *never* work.

Competition improves any product. There are many different models that have great siccess, but are opposed to by the NEA.

children are not products. it's not a factory line with some assembly required. silliness.

Children are not beans in a bag either. All are different. They need different things. They are individuals. Public schools as they are today cannot provide what is needed.

huh? i get what you're saying,but i'm not really sure how it relates to the silly suggestion of using business practices in schools. i would think that children are not products = children are not beans in a bag, so i'm a little confused at your response.

The business model pays for results. This means do what works. It may mean private tutoring on your own time. it may mean doing a lot more than preparing for one class. Have you ever heard of Jaime Escalantes? One of the greatest public school teachers of all times. They made a movie about him and how he fought the establishement. STAND AND DELIVER. One of my favorite movies. His story tells you something of what I am talking about.

VegesaurusRex

smirk-chortle-chuckle. you must have a charmed kind of school. this wouldn't work in a lot of places. you know we're not allowed to flunk students, right?

No, I didn't know that, but I am not surprised. Time to stand up to the system and tell them you ain't gonna take it any more. Like Alice's Restaurant, if three people do it, it's a movement.

VegesaurusRex

<<<<<<< Homeschooling parent... Guess yelling at my wife is out of the question huh? :laugh:

I was homeschooled! Unschooled, to be specific, which is a more radical version of homeschooling. It was awesome

We used the classical model. I have seen unschooling work very well and also very poorly. Really depends on the situation.

eml48341

To sum up what I really hate about public schools : they do not cater to the individual - just like the military, you are just a number. You cannot go faster than the class - you cannot go slower. And in fairness to the teachers, they cannot kick a punk in the a@@.

I went to public school and I loved it. We had ability grouping and it was like being in a private school with all the others looking up to you. Great status.

You obviously have not heard of differentiated instruction. In my classrooms, I had my reading, math and spelling all split up into small groups based on learning level. I had first graders reading chapter books and doing basic algebra in my classroom... each group worked according to their ability level. Planning 4-5 different lesson plans for each subject wasn't easy, but the kids benefited from it.

And, I also was home schooled grades 6-9. It is very easy to say you accomplished so much with the home school students because they have 150% support at home, are being taught a lesson catered to just them, and (in my experience) are a higher ability level than the most of the students in public school. I wish I could write a lesson plan individualized for each and every student, but in reality, 30+ lesson plans for every subject throughout the day is not possible. I group students (differentiate my instruction) and meet their needs that way. I also, along with my fellow teachers, have created special projects for the gifted students to work on in order to provide more challenges for them and to build higher level thinking skills.

Paying teachers by the number of students they attract and keep makes no sense to me. Students move, parents don't make them come to school, and there are some who are just not bright. It is not my fault, nor should my pay be less because I have a student who shows up only 50% of the time, or another who is functioning in 6th grade on a 2nd grade level.

You are right. I have not heard of differentiated instruction. I have heard of ability grouping, however, and that seems to make more sense than "differentiated instruction" for a number of reasons.

First, if you put all the kids of about the same ability level in ONE classroom, then you do not have to have multiple lesson plans for a number of groups. You need only one lesson plan, and you make it for the ability level of your class. This means, of course no mainstreaming of problem kids. They all get to say together. In my Latin class, I had an answer for differentiated ability. I flunked those who couldn't keep up and kicked them out of the class. Parents didn't like it but c'est la vie.

Ability grouping would make my life as a teacher much easier. The powers that be, however, say no to this so it is our job as a teacher to figure out how to do this within our own classroom. I get why you are disappointed with the education system, but it is not that the teachers are treating all of the students the same and saying all must learn one way on the same level, regardless of ability level. There are teachers who put in the extra work to meet the needs of ALL of the students. I have yet to work in a school (I have worked in over 7 different schools in different states throughout my career) where differentiated instruction was not the common practice. Unfortunately, as a public school educator, flunking is not an option anymore for the poor performing....and believe me, I have tried for the deserving ones who would benefit from another year in the same grade. Unfortunately, current research states that it is detrimental to a student's self-esteem to hold them back. I have documented a years worth of low grades, filled out a book's worth of paperwork, and written letters to the administration to try and hold students back who were not ready for the next grade level. The didn't "pass", but they were transferred to the next grade...basically you fail but you get to move on anyway. The system needs to change. I think we can all agree on that.

quigonnjae

<<<<<<< Homeschooling parent... Guess yelling at my wife is out of the question huh? :laugh:

I was homeschooled! Unschooled, to be specific, which is a more radical version of homeschooling. It was awesome

Unschooling huh? Never heard of it .. This may warrant some further investigation ..

Classalete

As a national board certified secondary educator...I support this OP. Bravo.

ishallnotwant

I'm a teacher in an inner city school.

It's rough. I can't motivate these kids for crap. But they learn. And I love them. I've been here 11 years.

Merit pay? That's a load of ****e. Teachers will cheat...it's already happening.

I teach my kids the best I can. If they don't want to learn, that falls on them. But merit pay is stupid. I just want to teach. I hate the politics of it.

No one ever blames the parents! Oh noooo! Not the parents! It's all put on the teachers. Hey, I didn't pop this kid out of my body...I'm just trying to teach him fractions. Oh, Johnny can't read in the 5th grade? That is NOT my fault. Where are the parents? Sitting at home, on the phone. Yea. It's not the parents' fault though.

I'm not a teacher, but this is SO true. Where are the parents? They may not be sitting at home on the phone, they may be out working 80 hours per week so they can have the latest high tech gadget or a huge new house or keep up the payments on their BRAND NEW CAR they just HAD to have. Where ARE the parents? None of them seem to be at home helping their children anymore. Don't get me wrong, I know some parents have to work to make ends meet, and I really feel for parents in that position, but in my area too may parents just work for the sake of having all kinds of amazing material goods, and the kids are left to run haywire. Where did our family values go? What happened to honest to goodness making ends meet, while you work hard to raise up your family? Now people want to make tons of money, have everything, and leave their children for others to raise. What's the point of having kids in that kind of lifestyle anyway?

fguillory

Oh, how I am going to look forward to being yelled at by parents. I graduate this fall with my BA and get my teaching credential right after. Yay me, I can't wait to go yachting

ishallnotwant

But I think parents are to blame also. Expecting your child to be raised by your teacher is a crime. It is truly sad when the ONLY attention a child receives is from their teacher. Neglect means this poor kid is already starting in a hole and a teacher is forced to play catch up.
The teaching system needs to be revised. Parents attitudes need to be revised. The union needs to be axed.

Amen!!

MissFit0101

I didn't read through the replies but wanted to say I totally support our teachers, and quite frankly feel they deserve much more for the work they do. :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:

mrsgstone

I've been a teacher for 8 years now. I won't say I'm overworked, I won't say I'm underpaid, but I will say that I am under appreciated by many. That is what really irks me!

I totally agree with this!

ishallnotwant

Referring specifically to public school teachers...

I am a state employee also. I am paid an annual salary less than yours. You are off through the whole of June and July while I work. But you tell me that you can't teach my child for 8 hours a day for 180 days out of the year. This same child that I teach at home and deal with for that remaining time that you don't. Granted, there are other children to teach, but sometimes this is just hard for me to swallow. I actually don't mind paying teachers more, but I do want them to teach my child and not give up halfway through the year just because she is one of your more challenging students.

Have you thought about taking your child out and schooling herself if you have such a problem with the school?

millerhillbabe

I am not a teacher. I could never get in a classroom and teach children. I know its hard and that is takes a special person to do that job. I love teachers.YOU GUYS ROCK! and I love that you encourage my children who are both learning disabled kids. I work with my kids teachers as often as I can as a single mom(kinda husband travels a lot) its hard work and I always demand that my children do their best and respect their teachers and the work the teachers have put into their futures and honor the teachers by doing only their best.

yaddayaddayadda

This argument can and will go on forever... I have been a public school math teacher for 18 years. I mostly love my job, but it is by far the most difficult job of anyone I know.

In the past, I would have read every word in this thread. Listening to the negativity hurts me personally. I have given so much to my students over the years... the cost of giving so much to them has often resulted in a loss for my own family.

So for all of the parents and students who appreciate everything I do everyday, you are welcome.

To the parents and students who don't, I seriously doubt that you will find a more dedicated teacher, but good luck to you.

I have no more time for this thread... way too many papers to grade tonight.:grumble:

VegesaurusRex

Ability grouping would make my life as a teacher much easier. The powers that be, however, say no to this so it is our job as a teacher to figure out how to do this within our own classroom. I get why you are disappointed with the education system, but it is not that the teachers are treating all of the students the same and saying all must learn one way on the same level, regardless of ability level. There are teachers who put in the extra work to meet the needs of ALL of the students. I have yet to work in a school (I have worked in over 7 different schools in different states throughout my career) where differentiated instruction was the common practice. Unfortunately, as a public school educator, flunking is not an option anymore for the poor performing....and believe me, I have tried for the deserving ones who would benefit from another year in the same grade. Unfortunately, current research states that it is detrimental to a student's self-esteem to hold them back. I have documented a years worth of low grades, filled out a book's worth of paperwork, and written letters to the administration to try and hold students back who were not ready for the next grade level. The didn't "pass", but they were transferred to the next grade...basically you fail but you get to move on anyway. The system needs to change. I think we can all agree on that.

Yes, ability grouping would make your life a lot easier, and would make the system a lot more cost effective. The powers that be that do not want ability grouping are the teachers' unions. Why? because that would cut the number of teaching jobs significantly. With ability grouping you could put 40 kids in one class if they were all at the same level. The unions are the biggest roadblock to education reform. They own a certain political party (politics is not allowed in this discussion group, so I cannot say which party). And they each scratch each others back, at the taxpayers' expense.

As for students' self esteme, how well do you think that will be bolstered when they get out of school and get fired from their first job because they can file in alphabetical order, or because the boss won't put up with their attitude. I was the boss and I did the firing. Both high school grads who, in my opinion were unemployable.

As for holding students behind, why nod flaut the rules by having some kids skip a grade. If you tell me that's not allowed either, then I will have to try very hard not to make the comparison between the public schools and a Nazi concentration camp.

Amy_B

.... making about 50K a year off our tax dollars, summers/vacations/snow days off.

yep, that teacher should definitely be fired and sent to jail.

but i can't stand it when people bring up the 'our tax dollars' argument. we pay taxes too. so technically, we pay our own salaries. :grumble:

I wish.

I once went into the teachers lounge at our local school. There was a poster on the wall I will never forget. It read:

THE THREE BEST THINGS ABOUT BEING A TEACHER : JUNE, JULY AND AUGUST

Yeah, we kind of need that time off after the stuff we put up with the rest of the year, including weekends and breaks. Just saying...

TheKitsune6

My problem is the public education system as a whole. There's a reason I begged my parents to homeschool my sister and I when I was 11 and we both flourished without the repressive, inefficient public schools.

ruggedBear

For all the teachers on the thread - I need your input! Can someone please explain why it is important for teachers to have employment contracts and unions when in the private sector, we have to sign an NDA, non-compete, and can be terminated at any time if the business strategy warrants it with only a slim hope of another job in our field that doesn't violate these agreements?

I'm not looking for an argument, just basic facts from those in the know - and that aren't tainted by media or union bias since those are the only other sources of information we have (and lord knows I would never ask my kids' teachers for fear of said argument!)

Thanks!

PS - I'm in corporate Learning & Development at a very large high-tech company, and have taught technical programs, so I 'think' of myself as a teacher too! If you think a classroom full of kids is tough - try engaging 20-30 engineers for 9 hours a day, 5 days a week with most of them convinced they know more about the subject than you do!

MaximalLife

I regret blanket indicting a whole profession for the actions of a few in a bad district.

We moved half way across the nation and are in a great district, and we no longer send our kids to private school.

There are great teachers out there who are just as frustrated as I am for the rotten apples.

Sorry folks!

ishallnotwant

First off, I am a teacher.


The raises that teachers receive should be tied to how well their students do. Yes, there are students whose parents don't encourage them. Yes, there are students who don't want to crack open a book. I've had some of those as well. You motivate them. You talk with the parents and motivate them as well. If they are not interested in their child's education, then you talk to Social Service and Child Protection.

I'm sorry, but I think this is a drastic abuse of the child protection services. There are children out there being hurt, abused possibly even molested by people in their families. Children whose lives are in danger...tying up the CPS services with an education call is extremely irresponsible, IMO. That is NOT what those services are for. They are for children who are in DANGER. I understand that you want the parents to step up, but I don't feel that this is an appropriate way to do it.

ishallnotwant

Referring specifically to public school teachers...

I am a state employee also. I am paid an annual salary less than yours. You are off through the whole of June and July while I work. But you tell me that you can't teach my child for 8 hours a day for 180 days out of the year. This same child that I teach at home and deal with for that remaining time that you don't. Granted, there are other children to teach, but sometimes this is just hard for me to swallow. I actually don't mind paying teachers more, but I do want them to teach my child and not give up halfway through the year just because she is one of your more challenging students.

Thank you I agree and then they want you to start taking time off of work to meet with them on their schedule. I understand it is my child but you can't meet me halfway. In order for me to meet you in the middle of the day I have to take the whole day off of work. My son was sick one day and I was called by the teacher to come and get him thats fine but I work 30 min away and I told them this. Twenty seconds after I hung up the phone I was called back and told if I am not ther in 10min they would call DSS and have them pick my son up. I cannot shorten my commute and before anyone starts I do not send my son to school sick. If he has a fever or is visibly sick he does not go.

Seriously?? HOW often are parent teacher conferences? At our kids' school they are 3 times per school year. You can't take a little bit of time out of your day to do one THREE times during the school year, so you expect the teacher to work around you? Do you realize they have sometimes 30 or so children in their class? Do you expect them to drop everything and work around the schedules of 30 parents? Is your kid's education important to you or not? I am pretty shocked that you are complaining about taking time off to get your sick child, too. No wonder you get along so well with the complaining poster you responded to. Would you like the school to just raise the children for you too? Maybe you could work something out where they feed them and house them for the nights. Crazy. You are an excellent example of the entitled parent being spoken of in this very thread. I'm sorry your child and their education is such an inconvenience. God forbid the teacher not work 24 hours per day to fit into YOUR schedule.

jlr_12

Reading through most of this has given me such rage haha. I am a teacher (substitute currently, looking for full-time) and my boyfriend always makes comments about how it's an easy job. He does it just to get me going, and does it ever. I'd like to see him in front of 30 15 year olds and see how long he lasts. I get a kick out of the people who comment about having weekends off, holidays and summer vacation. Do you honestly think that entire time is spent just relaxing? It's not like we get to school and have a binder passed to us containing every lesson for the year, every project, every test, every rubric. It's not like every student in the class as the exact same abilities and motivation. The time off we get is spent planning, trying to find creative lessons to engage the students, marking, doing report cards, or all of the above. When I was doing my practice teaching I spent hours a week planning and marking...and I wasn't even a real teacher yet. I didn't even have the full set of responsibilities that my cooperating teacher had. On top of the actual work that comes with being a teacher...you are also expected to do extra-curriculars. When I get a full-time job I will be coaching at LEAST 1 team during the school year, and will likely be involved with many more activities in the school. If you add up all of the extra hours we have to put in that we're NOT getting paid for (because god knows you don't get enough time during the school day to do all of your planning)...it becomes pretty apparent that we deserve some time in lieu in the summer. And I mean SOME time....many teachers are in and out of the school preparing their classroom and lessons throughout the summer as well.

As the OP stated...no one should judge until they've tried it. And I am not griping...I LOVE teaching. It is incredibly rewarding. But for people to think that it is all rainbows and butterflies and that we don't have to work extremely hard to GET those rewards? (ie. making a difference in a child's life), they need a reality check.

VegesaurusRex

Seriously?? HOW often are parent teacher conferences? At our kids' school they are 3 times per school year. You can't take a little bit of time out of your day to do one THREE times during the school year, so you expect the teacher to work around you? Do you realize they have sometimes 30 or so children in their class? Do you expect them to drop everything and work around the schedules of 30 parents? Is your kid's education important to you or not? I am pretty shocked that you are complaining about taking time off to get your sick child, too. No wonder you get along so well with the complaining poster you responded to. Would you like the school to just raise the children for you too? Maybe you could work something out where they feed them and house them for the nights. Crazy. You are an excellent example of the entitled parent being spoken of in this very thread. I'm sorry your child and their education is such an inconvenience. God forbid the teacher not work 24 hours per day to fit into YOUR schedule.

Great! Just what I would expect. In my business if I want to succeed I have to make the client happy. That may mean doing things at times that are inconvenient for me. But that is the way Capitalism is. I think you should get a bracelet that says WWJED - What would Jaime Escalentes do? If you want to know the answer to that question, see the movie STAND AND DELIVER about one of the greatest public school teachers of all times. JE never asked anyone to accomodate him. And John Tayor Gatto. New York Teacher of the year until he got fired for fighting against the system and advocating home schooling. There are many really great teachers like those two. Do you think, with your attitude, people will be making a movie about you?

kbee784

From a fellow teacher, preach on!!

I love my job, love my kids, LOVE what I do. It is NOT easy and I spend HOURS at my school after the kids leave, and I get there hours before they do. It's NOT an easy job.