Teacher Criticisms...(rant)

BuffaloJerseyGirl

It also blows my mind that people say, "Must be nice to get off at 3:30."

I also am already at work before you're even awake, genius. It evens out.

Ha! I love that one! And RARELY do I leave when my students do...and if I am, you better believe I'm taking work home with me to work on after I get dinner made, the kitchen cleaned up and all the other chores/errands that have to get done!

sjtreely

I'm a teacher. I've read every page. I've read every post. I don't even know where to begin. My career has been spent in Title I schools - all 26 years.

This much I know is true ... over the last 26 years I've seen many changes occur in public education. Some for the good. Sadly, some for the worse.

Students today are not like the students of 15 years ago. Many are not like the students of just 5 years ago. There's a sense of entitlement like never before with Americans. Not just in education, but every where. It's a systemic problem. I believe it's going to get worse before it gets better. And to me, that's scary.

I believe we're a nation in crisis. Children are raising children. Right, wrong, or indifferent - that makes things difficult. Some of today's parents aren't equipped with the tools necessary to raise healthy, well adjusted children.

I teach in a school corporation of the very affluent and those in extreme poverty. When I started teaching we didn't feed children breakfast. Now we do. When I started teaching we didn't offer day care before and after school. Now we do. When I started teaching we didn't send food home with children on the weekend. Now we do.

As the most abundant nation in the world, we still have problems.. Serious problems. And to help solve them, we need people from all walks of life - those in business, those in non-profit, those who are educated, and those who aren't. And, please, can we add teachers on the committees that are trying to figure out the solutions? We can add valuable insight to what is really happening in the classrooms and we might just have some good ideas to bring to the table.

As a teacher, one of the things I'm most proud to say is that I'm an ISTA and NEA member. I feel honored to be a part of such professional organizations. My arm wasn't twisted to become a member. I pay my dues willingly.

Over the years I've lobbied many times. My representatives and senators know my voice when I call. As they should. When I drive to the state house to speak with them, they know what I look like. I work like the ****ens to get meetings with them while I lobby. Most often I'm successful. Many sit nicely while I talk and share my joys and concerns about public education in Indiana. Some even listen.

However, only one has agreed to come to my school and see first hand the issues I speak so passionately about. One. To me, that's sad. My own senator won't even come to my school. Every year I ask him. Every year he declines. Nicely, but he still declines.

My point with that is we have for the most part middle income people with middle income values making decisions about those in poverty. I get they're busy. I really do. But we have serious problems and we need serious solutions and until we have representatives go to the schools and see first hand our struggles then we are climbing an up hill battle.

Education is not unique to other professions. We have good teachers and we have not so good teachers. Most, however, are great teachers.

In a perfect world those who have posted about the ease of my job would be able to shadow a teacher for a week ... from Sunday night to Saturday morning. This would give you a better understanding of our job responsibilities. My guess is you would have the same remark as the one representative who chose to come to my school, "Wow, I had know idea." His words. Not mine.

And, for what it's worth - you're darn right I like June, July, and August. I like spring break and winter break, too. I love the perks of my job and certainly the calendar is one of them. So, you kinda have to take the good with the not so good sometimes. I will never apologize for the calendar we keep.

I'm not complaining ... just trying my best to do some explaining.

futbolkt21

I'm a teacher. I've read every page. I've read every post. I don't even know where to begin. My career has been spent in Title I schools - all 26 years.

This much I know is true ... over the last 26 years I've seen many changes occur in public education. Some for the good. Sadly, some for the worse.

Students today are not like the students of 15 years ago. Many are not like the students of just 5 years ago. There's a sense of entitlement like never before with Americans. Not just in education, but every where. It's a systemic problem. I believe it's going to get worse before it gets better. And to me, that's scary.

I believe we're a nation in crisis. Children are raising children. Right, wrong, or indifferent - that makes things difficult. Some of today's parents aren't equipped with the tools necessary to raise healthy, well adjusted children.

I teach in a school corporation of the very affluent and those in extreme poverty. When I started teaching we didn't feed children breakfast. Now we do. When I started teaching we didn't offer day care before and after school. Now we do. When I started teaching we didn't send food home with children on the weekend. Now we do.

As the most abundant nation in the world, we still have problems.. Serious problems. And to help solve them, we need people from all walks of life - those in business, those in non-profit, those who are educated, and those who aren't. And, please, can we add teachers on the committees that are trying to figure out the solutions? We can add valuable insight to what is really happening in the classrooms and we might just have some good ideas to bring to the table.

As a teacher, one of the things I'm most proud to say is that I'm an ISTA and NEA member. I feel honored to be a part of such professional organizations. My arm wasn't twisted to become a member. I pay my dues willingly.

Over the years I've lobbied many times. My representatives and senators know my voice when I call. As they should. When I drive to the state house to speak with them, they know what I look like. I work like the ****ens to get meetings with them while I lobby. Most often I'm successful. Many sit nicely while I talk and share my joys and concerns about public education in Indiana. Some even listen.

However, only one has agreed to come to my school and see first hand the issues I speak so passionately about. One. To me, that's sad. My own senator won't even come to my school. Every year I ask him. Every year he declines. Nicely, but he still declines.

My point with that is we have for the most part middle income people with middle income values making decisions about those in poverty. I get they're busy. I really do. But we have serious problems and we need serious solutions and until we have representatives go to the schools and see first hand our struggles then we are climbing an up hill battle.

Education is not unique to other professions. We have good teachers and we have not so good teachers. Most, however, are great teachers.

In a perfect world those who have posted about the ease of my job would be able to shadow a teacher for a week ... from Sunday night to Saturday morning. This would give you a better understanding of our job responsibilities. My guess is you would have the same remark as the one representative who chose to come to my school, "Wow, I had know idea." His words. Not mine.

And, for what it's worth - you're darn right I like June, July, and August. I like spring break and winter break, too. I love the perks of my job and certainly the calendar is one of them. So, you kinda have to take the good with the not so good sometimes. I will never apologize for the calendar we keep.

I'm not complaining ... just trying my best to do some explaining.

Very well said!

And for the record, there would be a very high burn out rate if we didn't have those 8 weeks!

VegesaurusRex

I'm a teacher. I've read every page. I've read every post. I don't even know where to begin. My career has been spent in Title I schools - all 26 years.

This much I know is true ... over the last 26 years I've seen many changes occur in public education. Some for the good. Sadly, some for the worse.

Students today are not like the students of 15 years ago. Many are not like the students of just 5 years ago. There's a sense of entitlement like never before with Americans. Not just in education, but every where. It's a systemic problem. I believe it's going to get worse before it gets better. And to me, that's scary.

I believe we're a nation in crisis. Children are raising children. Right, wrong, or indifferent - that makes things difficult. Some of today's parents aren't equipped with the tools necessary to raise healthy, well adjusted children.

I teach in a school corporation of the very affluent and those in extreme poverty. When I started teaching we didn't feed children breakfast. Now we do. When I started teaching we didn't offer day care before and after school. Now we do. When I started teaching we didn't send food home with children on the weekend. Now we do.

As the most abundant nation in the world, we still have problems.. Serious problems. And to help solve them, we need people from all walks of life - those in business, those in non-profit, those who are educated, and those who aren't. And, please, can we add teachers on the committees that are trying to figure out the solutions? We can add valuable insight to what is really happening in the classrooms and we might just have some good ideas to bring to the table.

As a teacher, one of the things I'm most proud to say is that I'm an ISTA and NEA member. I feel honored to be a part of such professional organizations. My arm wasn't twisted to become a member. I pay my dues willingly.

Over the years I've lobbied many times. My representatives and senators know my voice when I call. As they should. When I drive to the state house to speak with them, they know what I look like. I work like the ****ens to get meetings with them while I lobby. Most often I'm successful. Many sit nicely while I talk and share my joys and concerns about public education in Indiana. Some even listen.

However, only one has agreed to come to my school and see first hand the issues I speak so passionately about. One. To me, that's sad. My own senator won't even come to my school. Every year I ask him. Every year he declines. Nicely, but he still declines.

My point with that is we have for the most part middle income people with middle income values making decisions about those in poverty. I get they're busy. I really do. But we have serious problems and we need serious solutions and until we have representatives go to the schools and see first hand our struggles then we are climbing an up hill battle.

Education is not unique to other professions. We have good teachers and we have not so good teachers. Most, however, are great teachers.

In a perfect world those who have posted about the ease of my job would be able to shadow a teacher for a week ... from Sunday night to Saturday morning. This would give you a better understanding of our job responsibilities. My guess is you would have the same remark as the one representative who chose to come to my school, "Wow, I had know idea." His words. Not mine.

And, for what it's worth - you're darn right I like June, July, and August. I like spring break and winter break, too. I love the perks of my job and certainly the calendar is one of them. So, you kinda have to take the good with the not so good sometimes. I will never apologize for the calendar we keep.

I'm not complaining ... just trying my best to do some explaining.

Not trying to belittle your working, but frankly, if you consider yourself a professional, then you truly have it easier than any other profession. Take lawyers, for example, first they have to get into law school, graduate and pass the bar. Most are usually in debt. Then as a reward they get a job working 16 hours per day for several years. When they finally make it, they still work 12 hours per day.

Take doctors. First they have to get into medical school. Then after four years, Internship, working sometimes 2 or 3 days without sleep. Then they go into practice, heavily in debt, or take a fellowship and work several more years. By the time they get out and can finally start making money, they are in their thirties.

Sorry, if I don't feel your pain, but you are the only "professionals" who get several months per year off.

futbolkt21

I'm a teacher. I've read every page. I've read every post. I don't even know where to begin. My career has been spent in Title I schools - all 26 years.

This much I know is true ... over the last 26 years I've seen many changes occur in public education. Some for the good. Sadly, some for the worse.

Students today are not like the students of 15 years ago. Many are not like the students of just 5 years ago. There's a sense of entitlement like never before with Americans. Not just in education, but every where. It's a systemic problem. I believe it's going to get worse before it gets better. And to me, that's scary.

I believe we're a nation in crisis. Children are raising children. Right, wrong, or indifferent - that makes things difficult. Some of today's parents aren't equipped with the tools necessary to raise healthy, well adjusted children.

I teach in a school corporation of the very affluent and those in extreme poverty. When I started teaching we didn't feed children breakfast. Now we do. When I started teaching we didn't offer day care before and after school. Now we do. When I started teaching we didn't send food home with children on the weekend. Now we do.

As the most abundant nation in the world, we still have problems.. Serious problems. And to help solve them, we need people from all walks of life - those in business, those in non-profit, those who are educated, and those who aren't. And, please, can we add teachers on the committees that are trying to figure out the solutions? We can add valuable insight to what is really happening in the classrooms and we might just have some good ideas to bring to the table.

As a teacher, one of the things I'm most proud to say is that I'm an ISTA and NEA member. I feel honored to be a part of such professional organizations. My arm wasn't twisted to become a member. I pay my dues willingly.

Over the years I've lobbied many times. My representatives and senators know my voice when I call. As they should. When I drive to the state house to speak with them, they know what I look like. I work like the ****ens to get meetings with them while I lobby. Most often I'm successful. Many sit nicely while I talk and share my joys and concerns about public education in Indiana. Some even listen.

However, only one has agreed to come to my school and see first hand the issues I speak so passionately about. One. To me, that's sad. My own senator won't even come to my school. Every year I ask him. Every year he declines. Nicely, but he still declines.

My point with that is we have for the most part middle income people with middle income values making decisions about those in poverty. I get they're busy. I really do. But we have serious problems and we need serious solutions and until we have representatives go to the schools and see first hand our struggles then we are climbing an up hill battle.

Education is not unique to other professions. We have good teachers and we have not so good teachers. Most, however, are great teachers.

In a perfect world those who have posted about the ease of my job would be able to shadow a teacher for a week ... from Sunday night to Saturday morning. This would give you a better understanding of our job responsibilities. My guess is you would have the same remark as the one representative who chose to come to my school, "Wow, I had know idea." His words. Not mine.

And, for what it's worth - you're darn right I like June, July, and August. I like spring break and winter break, too. I love the perks of my job and certainly the calendar is one of them. So, you kinda have to take the good with the not so good sometimes. I will never apologize for the calendar we keep.

I'm not complaining ... just trying my best to do some explaining.

Not trying to belittle your working, but frankly, if you consider yourself a professional, then you truly have it easier than any other profession. Take lawyers, for example, first they have to get into law school, graduate and pass the bar. Most are usually in debt. Then as a reward they get a job working 16 hours per day for several years. When they finally make it, they still work 12 hours per day.

Take doctors. First they have to get into medical school. Then after four years, Internship, working sometimes 2 or 3 days without sleep. Then they go into practice, heavily in debt, or take a fellowship and work several more years. By the time they get out and can finally start making money, they are in their thirties.

Sorry, if I don't feel your pain, but you are the only "professionals" who get several months per year off.

We are also paid as 10 month employees. And your argument doesn't really work. You'd have a point if doctors and lawyers got paid $30,000 a year.

VegesaurusRex

We are also paid as 10 month employees. And your argument doesn't really work. You'd have a point if doctors and lawyers got paid $30,000 a year.

Do you know what a lawyer gets paid while in law school? Or a doctor while in medical school? Or an internist (probably about $35,000 )

Do you know what kind of debts they have to repay for their education?

And teachers in Connecticut where I live average between $50,000 and $60,000 per year. So saying they don't get paid for summer is misleading.

pucenavel

Imagine if when you needed a pencil at your work, you had to go buy your own. That's what it's like for teachers.

My wife is a teacher - we spend on average around $500/year buying supplies for other people's children.

futbolkt21

We are also paid as 10 month employees. And your argument doesn't really work. You'd have a point if doctors and lawyers got paid $30,000 a year.

Do you know what a lawyer gets paid while in law school? Or a doctor while in medical school? Or an internist (probably about $35,000 )

Do you know what kind of debts they have to repay for their education?

And teachers in Connecticut where I live average between $50,000 and $60,000 per year. So saying they don't get paid for summer is misleading.

I am a teacher in NC and get paid $30,000. Haven't had a raise since I moved here 4 years ago. Had a much nicer salary whenI was teaching up north. Anyway, I am a ten month employee, but I choose to have my salary spread out over the 12 months. I also work every summer to help supplement my income.

Anyway, back to the point. No, there aren't any other careers in which you have a sumer break. But like I said before, the burn out rate would be unbelievably high if it weren't for those 8 weeks off. I need those 8 weeks to recover, plan for the next year, and work a second job.

I love my job, I love my students, and I love knowing that I am making a difference whether it goes recognized or not.

KimmieBrie

We are also paid as 10 month employees. And your argument doesn't really work. You'd have a point if doctors and lawyers got paid $30,000 a year.

Maybe where you are... but here the ones I know make 50k to about 70k (70k is a Boston Public school teacher I know - city salary is higher - and deservedly so). Good teachers deserve their salary and all the bennies that go with it. Bad teachers don't. The system stinks. Changes need to be made...

futbolkt21

We are also paid as 10 month employees. And your argument doesn't really work. You'd have a point if doctors and lawyers got paid $30,000 a year.

Maybe where you are... but here the ones I know make 50k to about 70k (70k is a Boston Public school teacher I know - city salary is higher - and deservedly so). Good teachers deserve their salary and all the bennies that go with it. Bad teachers don't. The system stinks. Changes need to be made...

Oh, I know. I used to teach in Maryland--top school system in the nation. There are unions up north and therefore the pay is much higher. I just wanted to clear up the misconception that ALL states pay teachers that well.

VegesaurusRex

We are also paid as 10 month employees. And your argument doesn't really work. You'd have a point if doctors and lawyers got paid $30,000 a year.

Maybe where you are... but here the ones I know make 50k to about 70k (70k is a Boston Public school teacher I know - city salary is higher - and deservedly so). Good teachers deserve their salary and all the bennies that go with it. Bad teachers don't. The system stinks. Changes need to be made...

You probably are not going to be surprised, but I agree with you 100%.

VegesaurusRex

I'm a teacher. I've read every page. I've read every post. I don't even know where to begin. My career has been spent in Title I schools - all 26 years.

This much I know is true ... over the last 26 years I've seen many changes occur in public education. Some for the good. Sadly, some for the worse.

Students today are not like the students of 15 years ago. Many are not like the students of just 5 years ago. There's a sense of entitlement like never before with Americans. Not just in education, but every where. It's a systemic problem. I believe it's going to get worse before it gets better. And to me, that's scary.

I believe we're a nation in crisis. Children are raising children. Right, wrong, or indifferent - that makes things difficult. Some of today's parents aren't equipped with the tools necessary to raise healthy, well adjusted children.

I teach in a school corporation of the very affluent and those in extreme poverty. When I started teaching we didn't feed children breakfast. Now we do. When I started teaching we didn't offer day care before and after school. Now we do. When I started teaching we didn't send food home with children on the weekend. Now we do.

As the most abundant nation in the world, we still have problems.. Serious problems. And to help solve them, we need people from all walks of life - those in business, those in non-profit, those who are educated, and those who aren't. And, please, can we add teachers on the committees that are trying to figure out the solutions? We can add valuable insight to what is really happening in the classrooms and we might just have some good ideas to bring to the table.

As a teacher, one of the things I'm most proud to say is that I'm an ISTA and NEA member. I feel honored to be a part of such professional organizations. My arm wasn't twisted to become a member. I pay my dues willingly.

Over the years I've lobbied many times. My representatives and senators know my voice when I call. As they should. When I drive to the state house to speak with them, they know what I look like. I work like the ****ens to get meetings with them while I lobby. Most often I'm successful. Many sit nicely while I talk and share my joys and concerns about public education in Indiana. Some even listen.

However, only one has agreed to come to my school and see first hand the issues I speak so passionately about. One. To me, that's sad. My own senator won't even come to my school. Every year I ask him. Every year he declines. Nicely, but he still declines.

My point with that is we have for the most part middle income people with middle income values making decisions about those in poverty. I get they're busy. I really do. But we have serious problems and we need serious solutions and until we have representatives go to the schools and see first hand our struggles then we are climbing an up hill battle.

Education is not unique to other professions. We have good teachers and we have not so good teachers. Most, however, are great teachers.

In a perfect world those who have posted about the ease of my job would be able to shadow a teacher for a week ... from Sunday night to Saturday morning. This would give you a better understanding of our job responsibilities. My guess is you would have the same remark as the one representative who chose to come to my school, "Wow, I had know idea." His words. Not mine.

And, for what it's worth - you're darn right I like June, July, and August. I like spring break and winter break, too. I love the perks of my job and certainly the calendar is one of them. So, you kinda have to take the good with the not so good sometimes. I will never apologize for the calendar we keep.

I'm not complaining ... just trying my best to do some explaining.

Bytheway, although I disagreed with you on your last two paragraphs, I emphatically agree with your first three or four, about this being an "entitled nation." You are right on there.

jrbb0309

I live in Canada and my husband is a high school teacher. He is also the head of a department. In Canada, teachers are paid fairly well - starting salaries are in the mid-30s and by the time you put in 10-15 years, you can earn 90K. However, no one pays for a teacher's education - certainly not their 4 year bachelor's degree from a university and definitely not the 1-2 years additional schooling at teacher's college. Nor are any of their special qualification courses paid for. Those all come out of pocket but are required to move up the ladder.

I didn't get my college education paid for either nor did most people I know with masters or doctorate degrees in their field - yet that's what's needed many times to get ahead. I don't see the difference.

I have never complained about what salary a teacher makes - my complaint is the system (here in the US, not familiar with Canada). There are limited jobs, funds, but plenty of willing able teachers... in this market, when you can't get rid of those bad teachers, there is something seriously flawed with the system and it needs to be corrected. A great teacher friend of mine was out of work for so long while those other bad teachers with tenure still reign. We had a horrible public school system in the town where I grew up. One of the HS teachers was dating my friend, a HS student... that's what kind of teachers they had. I am sure she wasn't his first HS girlfriend either. These are just examples I know of personally so I am sure there are many many many more. I am for teachers and all the hard work that they do - I am against the system that let's some of your undeserving peers stay in place.

I brought the first part up because I read in several threads that teachers were having their education (post-degree mostly, I'm assuming) paid for and I was simply laying out that that is not the case in Canada.

Also, I am not the teacher, my husband is - as I mentioned in my post, so they're not my peers.

Lastly, how do you judge who is truly a bad teacher? Are you planning on letting the kids judge? The parents? The principal?

Do you judge based on moral issues? Someone mentioned drugs and someone mentioned dating students in another thread and my mind boggles at systems that allow either of those. My husband's contract actually has a morals clause in it.

Do you judge based on dry and boring but technically proficient teachers?

I'm not arguing that *bad* teachers shouldn't be weeded out and that new young teachers should get a chance to fill their positions (especially since here we definitely have a surplus of trained new young teachers waiting for their opportunity) - I'm only asking who gets to judge what constitutes a *bad* teacher.

And also, in Canada at least, you cannot be fired without cause so union or not, public or private sector, your employer is going to have to have some very good reasons for firing you, period, and idiots abound in every profession, unfortunately.

MisterDubs303

In my 17 years as an educator in alternative high school settings, despite having an EXCELLENT rapport among students and colleagues alike, I’ve:

- Been punched by students on numerous occasions
- Been bitten, kicked, and spit upon
- Had a fork held to my eyeball
- Broken up countless fights
- Had “F&@# You 8!tch” keyed across the hood of my vehicle
- Had 2 cell phones, 2 iPods, 2 laptops, and countless other less valuable items stolen
- Had my vehicle stolen (pretty good idea that it was 3 specific students, but can’t prove it, and hearsay means nothing)
- Been threatened so many times it’s like being called to dinner
- Taken about 10 lifetimes worth of verbal/emotional abuse
- Can’t even remember what else

…and still made time to love on and educate these same kids. A lot of that time came at night, on weekends, and anywhere else I could squeeze it in. The 10 weeks off (only got those during half of my years of teaching) were partially consumed with continuing education classes and more planning (though obviously not the entire vacation). Spring break and Christmas break usually had their share of working days, too.

I loved my students or I never would have continued it. But it came at a pretty hefty cost, socially, within my marriage (RIP), and financially. Even with my M.A. in education (which I’ll be paying for till I die) I’ve never made over $40,000/yr. Yes, I chose to work for private non-profits who serve kids that get expelled from everywhere else that they merely “attended.” But if not me, who? Someone has to do the work. It is necessary, and sometimes pretty ugly. I’m not ready to just give them up to the prisons, which is frankly where many of them belong (just haven’t been caught and tried yet).

I have been a mentor to dozens upon dozens, and have practically been a parent to many others, and yes, I am proud to say that I have played a big part in salvaging many students who were headed to self-destruction, at a minimum. Despite our efforts, I’ve also watched as some have continued along that path, and will not see the outside of a prison again. Of course, I’ve buried a few, too.

Teachers simply don’t have control of all necessary factors that would make a student as successful as they can be. They don’t have the ability to turn off the student’s video game at 2:30 in the morning, or to make sure they eat a healthful breakfast, or to help them balance study time and everything else time. Parents have to do that part. But when teachers repeatedly “nag” the student to stay awake in class, or ???, the *** hits the fan, the teacher is out to get the student, etc. I had a barber once rant about how it was teachers’ jobs to virtually raise her kids, and especially to educate them, including “Why are they sending homework home? It’s their job to teach them. That’s what I pay taxes for.”

The point is, most of the teachers I’ve worked with (secondary) make sacrifices that go far beyond what society would expect of them… at least in writing. They pour themselves out, they take a LOT of B.S. that would get people’s *kitten* kicked in almost any other setting, and yet they are often the first targets when students don’t perform, or when students create problems in the classroom or school.

I have seen bad teachers… poisonous teachers, and I will be the first to agree that they need to be eliminated. In fact, had one teacher not announced his decision to resign by the deadline for stating intentions, I was prepared to give him an ultimatum that I would interfere. The students deserved better, and I was prepared to take that awkward risk. Fortunately, he did resign. It’s not a game. People should scrutinize the faculties in their community, but they should also recognize the bigger picture, a fuller picture, of what is really going on in that profession.

Shannon2714

[/quote]

these students probably passed high school because the administration allowed them to. what you both are speaking of, however, is not the teachers' fault - it's is due to curriculum guidelines that try to cut corners. in our county, grammar is no longer an acceptable part of the elementary curriculum. students are encouraged to 'sound out' words, but we are not allowed any instructional time for spelling or grammar. we are supposed to 'integrate' it into science or social studies. factoring trees to help with multiplication is not taught, nor is long division. the county pushes calculators and technology to help our students fit the '21st century classroom', so it has to be 'snuck' in. this kind of teaching is *not* the teachers' idea!!! it's been laid down through testing and number pushing from federal and state 'great' ideas. it is insane to try and carve out time to have students actually think and develop some critical thinking skills without getting in hot water.

as for study schedules, teachers are expected by the county to update a website daily with all assignments on them for the students. they don't even have to write down their own homework. and if you forget to update the day's homework, the backlash from parents is incredible, because their dear heart student has no other record of it.

it's great that you teach older students, and i get a lot of what you are saying. but the failed system is not just because teachers aren't doing their job. it also falls to the education system in place by government and parent enabling.
[/quote]

Please know that I am in NO way blaming just the teachers. The system is entirely to blame. It is failing our children on a daily basis. HOWEVER, colleges that require applications to be submitted and accepted should NOT be accepting these kids. I don't mean to be a b*tch, but THEIR scores bring down the overall of the university and then MY degree looks like it comes from a sub-par college. It just irritates me. My seven year old writes better than some kids in my college classes.

Shannon2714

[/quote]

Not trying to belittle your working, but frankly, if you consider yourself a professional, then you truly have it easier than any other profession. Take lawyers, for example, first they have to get into law school, graduate and pass the bar. Most are usually in debt. Then as a reward they get a job working 16 hours per day for several years. When they finally make it, they still work 12 hours per day.

Take doctors. First they have to get into medical school. Then after four years, Internship, working sometimes 2 or 3 days without sleep. Then they go into practice, heavily in debt, or take a fellowship and work several more years. By the time they get out and can finally start making money, they are in their thirties.

Sorry, if I don't feel your pain, but you are the only "professionals" who get several months per year off.
[/quote]

And exactly who teaches all of you lawyers and doctors?? Yet YOU make the "big bucks". Maybe teachers should earn a percentage of what their students end up making....

ProjectTae

This is simply my opinion and you can disagree all you like, but PUH-LEASE! You can chose to make your day as easy or as difficult as you like. If you care about your students, you're going to have a more packed day, if you choose to sit back and relax, your day is going to be a breeze. I've had good teachers, and bad teachers but seriously, the job cannot be as bad as you're all making it out to seem. You get weekends off, multiple weeks throughout the year off, plus 2 months during the summer off. Give me a break, if your job is that difficult or you're not enjoying it (not saying you guys don't) then find a job where you do enjoy yourself. Teachers should be prepared for the work load, and love children. If you're not and you don't, then keep flipping through the book of careers till you find something you like. My sister-in-law is a fourth grade teacher and all she does is complain about how the students shouldn't be in the class or are acting like brats... blah blah blah... I just want to tell her to find a job where she'll actually care about it. If you're just going to complain all day about things at your job then move on.

I agree here too. There are a lot of people who become teachers just because the college is paid for. You have to be passionate about it or don't waste your time.

The college is not paid for? I guess it depends on where you live... It's not paid for in California.

iuangina

This is simply my opinion and you can disagree all you like, but PUH-LEASE! You can chose to make your day as easy or as difficult as you like. If you care about your students, you're going to have a more packed day, if you choose to sit back and relax, your day is going to be a breeze. I've had good teachers, and bad teachers but seriously, the job cannot be as bad as you're all making it out to seem. You get weekends off, multiple weeks throughout the year off, plus 2 months during the summer off. Give me a break, if your job is that difficult or you're not enjoying it (not saying you guys don't) then find a job where you do enjoy yourself. Teachers should be prepared for the work load, and love children. If you're not and you don't, then keep flipping through the book of careers till you find something you like. My sister-in-law is a fourth grade teacher and all she does is complain about how the students shouldn't be in the class or are acting like brats... blah blah blah... I just want to tell her to find a job where she'll actually care about it. If you're just going to complain all day about things at your job then move on.

I agree here too. There are a lot of people who become teachers just because the college is paid for. You have to be passionate about it or don't waste your time.

The college is not paid for? I guess it depends on where you live... It's not paid for in California.

I must have missed the memo about college being paid for because a good portion of my check goes to paying my student loans.

chanstriste13

Great! Just what I would expect. In my business if I want to succeed I have to make the client happy. That may mean doing things at times that are inconvenient for me. But that is the way Capitalism is. I think you should get a bracelet that says WWJED - What would Jaime Escalentes do? If you want to know the answer to that question, see the movie STAND AND DELIVER about one of the greatest public school teachers of all times. JE never asked anyone to accomodate him. And John Tayor Gatto. New York Teacher of the year until he got fired for fighting against the system and advocating home schooling. There are many really great teachers like those two. Do you think, with your attitude, people will be making a movie about you?

and of course, don't forget about dead poets' society.

but, really, have you ever actually taught, or do you just watch movies about teaching? you seem to have a lot of answers - you must be a master teacher. just curious.

schotas

Very interesting post...it certainly stirs up a lot of emotion from teachers and non-teachers alike.
So, here's my two cents (for what it's worth)...
I've taught for 21 years.
I've poured my heart into my job and had parents and students love me.
I've poured my heart into my job and had parents and students dislike me. That's just the nature of working with people.
I didn't go into the job for the money. I did it for the kids.
The job is full of successes and failures on my part, the part of parents, the part of students, and yes, even our government to some degree.
I don't expect anyone to fully respect or understand how many long hours I put in after work or on the weekends (but my husband and kids sure do).
But ultimately, I have to remind myself of one thing..."Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward." Colossians 3:23-24
I'm sure God put this verse in the Bible specifically for teachers.

chanstriste13

Our education system needs more real business people and less career teachers, and maybe a results oriented system could demand the kind of pay worthy of a real profession.

silliness. the business model in education will *never* work.

Competition improves any product. There are many different models that have great siccess, but are opposed to by the NEA.

children are not products. it's not a factory line with some assembly required. silliness.

Children are not beans in a bag either. All are different. They need different things. They are individuals. Public schools as they are today cannot provide what is needed.

huh? i get what you're saying,but i'm not really sure how it relates to the silly suggestion of using business practices in schools. i would think that children are not products = children are not beans in a bag, so i'm a little confused at your response.

The business model pays for results. This means do what works. It may mean private tutoring on your own time. it may mean doing a lot more than preparing for one class. Have you ever heard of Jaime Escalantes? One of the greatest public school teachers of all times. They made a movie about him and how he fought the establishement. STAND AND DELIVER. One of my favorite movies. His story tells you something of what I am talking about.

you act like teachers don't already do this. most do. private tutoring on your own time is common. preparing for more than one class is common. this is not something new and innovative.

what teachers fight against are students who *choose* not to come to extra tutoring sessions because they would rather be texting their friends at lunch, fail a class because the *chose* not to complete any work, then whine to mommy and daddy about their *deserved* poor grade, who then have them come barreling in accusing you of not being available, singling out their dear heart, being unfair and wanting them to fail.

sure, there are some teachers who do a lousy job, just as in any profession, but it's the minority. we hardly need to watch a movie to know what you are talking about. and just because you have watched a movie hardly means that you know what you are talking about.

as i said in my original post, if you haven't stood in front of a class of 20 to 30 students and taught, you really have no idea. business and capitalism be damned.

chanstriste13

For all the teachers on the thread - I need your input! Can someone please explain why it is important for teachers to have employment contracts and unions when in the private sector, we have to sign an NDA, non-compete, and can be terminated at any time if the business strategy warrants it with only a slim hope of another job in our field that doesn't violate these agreements?

I'm not looking for an argument, just basic facts from those in the know - and that aren't tainted by media or union bias since those are the only other sources of information we have (and lord knows I would never ask my kids' teachers for fear of said argument!)

Thanks!

PS - I'm in corporate Learning & Development at a very large high-tech company, and have taught technical programs, so I 'think' of myself as a teacher too! If you think a classroom full of kids is tough - try engaging 20-30 engineers for 9 hours a day, 5 days a week with most of them convinced they know more about the subject than you do!

we don't have unions in nc, so can't help you there - hope you find some good information!

edited to add: i'm sure teaching grownups can be a hassle, but at least if they cuss you out, slap you or throw a chair through a window, you get to fire them...

swimmchick87

It also blows my mind that people say, "Must be nice to get off at 3:30."

I also am already at work before you're even awake, genius. It evens out.

Ha! I love that one! And RARELY do I leave when my students do...and if I am, you better believe I'm taking work home with me to work on after I get dinner made, the kitchen cleaned up and all the other chores/errands that have to get done!

Loved this one as well! I know some people will always bash teachers no matter what, but what really gets me going is comments like this that are just plain ignorant. I'm a special ed teacher. Even if I go in at the exact minute I need to arrive on time and leave at the exact minute I'm allowed to, it's still an 8 hour day just like any other job. Even those "mediocre" teachers who only work the contracted time are still working an 8 hour day! Yes, there are summers off, but low salaries make up for that. We also work far past the kids and come in weeks before they do- in my district we actually get 5 weeks off, not 3 months. I also think those 5 weeks sort of make up for the fact that we spend so much of our own time doing work things. I think people that can just leave work at work don't really get it. There are some other professions that may spend a lot of "non office hour time" working as well, but they're actually compensated well for that. Yes, lawyers work a lot of hours...but they're paid for every single one of them. I've also never heard of a teacher getting college paid for...ever. I moved states for a job, many others are "transplants" from other states as well, and I grew up in a family of teachers. Every one of those teachers paid for college. I also hate the "teachers make more than the average salary" argument. That one is plain ignorant as well. When the "average salary" is figured, that includes everyone who works a part time minimum wage job. Teachers have college degrees- of course they should make more than average! When you compare teacher's salaries to those with the same level of education, the only profession that gets paid less is social work. If you think teaching is easy, that's an opinion you're allowed to have. However, don't go spewing "facts" that are untrue and ignorant! I can't believe people buy into this stuff!

chanstriste13

If you think teaching is easy, that's an opinion you're allowed to have. However, don't go spewing "facts" that are untrue and ignorant! I can't believe people buy into this stuff!

well said!

UsedToBeHusky

This is simply my opinion and you can disagree all you like, but PUH-LEASE! You can chose to make your day as easy or as difficult as you like. If you care about your students, you're going to have a more packed day, if you choose to sit back and relax, your day is going to be a breeze. I've had good teachers, and bad teachers but seriously, the job cannot be as bad as you're all making it out to seem. You get weekends off, multiple weeks throughout the year off, plus 2 months during the summer off. Give me a break, if your job is that difficult or you're not enjoying it (not saying you guys don't) then find a job where you do enjoy yourself. Teachers should be prepared for the work load, and love children. If you're not and you don't, then keep flipping through the book of careers till you find something you like. My sister-in-law is a fourth grade teacher and all she does is complain about how the students shouldn't be in the class or are acting like brats... blah blah blah... I just want to tell her to find a job where she'll actually care about it. If you're just going to complain all day about things at your job then move on.

I agree here too. There are a lot of people who become teachers just because the college is paid for. You have to be passionate about it or don't waste your time.

The college is not paid for? I guess it depends on where you live... It's not paid for in California.

I must have missed the memo about college being paid for because a good portion of my check goes to paying my student loans.

In GA, you can receive scholarships for college if you acquire a certification and commit to teaching for at least 4 years. I know because when I decided to continue my education, many people tried to get me to go under that program. I'm sure that is not the case in every state.

epona_mus

It's not so black and white. There is so much wrong on so many levels. SO many parents don't do their part, and So many teachers don't do there's. I'm in and out of different classrooms every day, I see many excellent teachers, and I see many horrible teachers.
To me, it's not really a matter of who's to blame. The fact is that as a nation, we are failing our students. And something different needs to be done.

I have two graduated, one graduates this year and one next year. If I had to do it again, no way in hell would my kids be in this school system.

I pulled my kids out of public school and successfully homeschooled all of them, while working a full-time job. Even the NEA estimates that actual instruction is only 20% of a teacher's day; management and administration is the other 80%. It's not the fault of individual teachers... most are dedicated, caring people. Our education system is flawed at the very premise. There is no repairing it as it is - it needs to be completely dismantled.

evmullin

Ah education. The fast track to a life of wealth, success and respect. Just the other day I was yachting with a few pubic school teachers, we dined on a lovely pheasant and caviar fresh from Russia.

Plus there's the easy workdays! I mean who doesn't love being responsible for 30+ children all day? Plenty of internet goof off time to be had there. And it's not like it's stressful work. I mean who's gonna get upset if something bad happens to their children?



:noway:

Funniest thing ever! I'm from a very long line of family teachers. We all loved this one....

evmullin

This is simply my opinion and you can disagree all you like, but PUH-LEASE! You can chose to make your day as easy or as difficult as you like. If you care about your students, you're going to have a more packed day, if you choose to sit back and relax, your day is going to be a breeze. I've had good teachers, and bad teachers but seriously, the job cannot be as bad as you're all making it out to seem. You get weekends off, multiple weeks throughout the year off, plus 2 months during the summer off. Give me a break, if your job is that difficult or you're not enjoying it (not saying you guys don't) then find a job where you do enjoy yourself. Teachers should be prepared for the work load, and love children. If you're not and you don't, then keep flipping through the book of careers till you find something you like. My sister-in-law is a fourth grade teacher and all she does is complain about how the students shouldn't be in the class or are acting like brats... blah blah blah... I just want to tell her to find a job where she'll actually care about it. If you're just going to complain all day about things at your job then move on.

Wow....and what is it that YOU do for a living?

voliim

Eh, there are many, many horrible teachers and just as many good ones, but the whole education system is stupid. Even though I am still a student, I have had my fair share of crappy teachers, and by that I mean teachers who use Wikipedia to make lessons, put up sites on a projector and make you copy it word for word down, I've even had teachers who just sit back and let you do whatever you want for 4/6 of the lesson. Masses of students in the younger areas, like High School, don't really appreciate a good teacher, they adore ****ty teachers because the lesson is a breeze. Its kind of a double edged sword.

VegesaurusRex

Great! Just what I would expect. In my business if I want to succeed I have to make the client happy. That may mean doing things at times that are inconvenient for me. But that is the way Capitalism is. I think you should get a bracelet that says WWJED - What would Jaime Escalentes do? If you want to know the answer to that question, see the movie STAND AND DELIVER about one of the greatest public school teachers of all times. JE never asked anyone to accomodate him. And John Tayor Gatto. New York Teacher of the year until he got fired for fighting against the system and advocating home schooling. There are many really great teachers like those two. Do you think, with your attitude, people will be making a movie about you?

and of course, don't forget about dead poets' society.

but, really, have you ever actually taught, or do you just watch movies about teaching? you seem to have a lot of answers - you must be a master teacher. just curious.

Yes, I have taught. For several years I taught Latin for homeschoolers. Also, before that, I taught in a post graduate professional school as an adjunct. I did that for 10 years.

Most public school teachers whom I have spoken to claim that they work several hours a day extra, i.e., not including time actually spent in school teaching. Yet the post I was reacting to here was from a teacher, who gets summers off, winter and spring break, works until 3:00, and resents having to work late to accomodate parents who probably get two weeks a year off. There is a disconnect here that I do not understand. Perhaps you can explain it to me. Why would a teacher who supposedly works extra hours anyway resent staying a few hours later to accomodate parents who do not have the huge number of vacation days she gets? Seriously.