Teacher Criticisms...(rant)

VegesaurusRex

Ability grouping would make my life as a teacher much easier. The powers that be, however, say no to this so it is our job as a teacher to figure out how to do this within our own classroom. I get why you are disappointed with the education system, but it is not that the teachers are treating all of the students the same and saying all must learn one way on the same level, regardless of ability level. There are teachers who put in the extra work to meet the needs of ALL of the students. I have yet to work in a school (I have worked in over 7 different schools in different states throughout my career) where differentiated instruction was the common practice. Unfortunately, as a public school educator, flunking is not an option anymore for the poor performing....and believe me, I have tried for the deserving ones who would benefit from another year in the same grade. Unfortunately, current research states that it is detrimental to a student's self-esteem to hold them back. I have documented a years worth of low grades, filled out a book's worth of paperwork, and written letters to the administration to try and hold students back who were not ready for the next grade level. The didn't "pass", but they were transferred to the next grade...basically you fail but you get to move on anyway. The system needs to change. I think we can all agree on that.

Yes, ability grouping would make your life a lot easier, and would make the system a lot more cost effective. The powers that be that do not want ability grouping are the teachers' unions. Why? because that would cut the number of teaching jobs significantly. With ability grouping you could put 40 kids in one class if they were all at the same level. The unions are the biggest roadblock to education reform. They own a certain political party (politics is not allowed in this discussion group, so I cannot say which party). And they each scratch each others back, at the taxpayers' expense.

As for students' self esteme, how well do you think that will be bolstered when they get out of school and get fired from their first job because they can file in alphabetical order, or because the boss won't put up with their attitude. I was the boss and I did the firing. Both high school grads who, in my opinion were unemployable.

As for holding students behind, why nod flaut the rules by having some kids skip a grade. If you tell me that's not allowed either, then I will have to try very hard not to make the comparison between the public schools and a Nazi concentration camp.

Amy_B

.... making about 50K a year off our tax dollars, summers/vacations/snow days off.

yep, that teacher should definitely be fired and sent to jail.

but i can't stand it when people bring up the 'our tax dollars' argument. we pay taxes too. so technically, we pay our own salaries. :grumble:

I wish.

I once went into the teachers lounge at our local school. There was a poster on the wall I will never forget. It read:

THE THREE BEST THINGS ABOUT BEING A TEACHER : JUNE, JULY AND AUGUST

Yeah, we kind of need that time off after the stuff we put up with the rest of the year, including weekends and breaks. Just saying...

TheKitsune6

My problem is the public education system as a whole. There's a reason I begged my parents to homeschool my sister and I when I was 11 and we both flourished without the repressive, inefficient public schools.

ruggedBear

For all the teachers on the thread - I need your input! Can someone please explain why it is important for teachers to have employment contracts and unions when in the private sector, we have to sign an NDA, non-compete, and can be terminated at any time if the business strategy warrants it with only a slim hope of another job in our field that doesn't violate these agreements?

I'm not looking for an argument, just basic facts from those in the know - and that aren't tainted by media or union bias since those are the only other sources of information we have (and lord knows I would never ask my kids' teachers for fear of said argument!)

Thanks!

PS - I'm in corporate Learning & Development at a very large high-tech company, and have taught technical programs, so I 'think' of myself as a teacher too! If you think a classroom full of kids is tough - try engaging 20-30 engineers for 9 hours a day, 5 days a week with most of them convinced they know more about the subject than you do!

MaximalLife

I regret blanket indicting a whole profession for the actions of a few in a bad district.

We moved half way across the nation and are in a great district, and we no longer send our kids to private school.

There are great teachers out there who are just as frustrated as I am for the rotten apples.

Sorry folks!

ishallnotwant

First off, I am a teacher.


The raises that teachers receive should be tied to how well their students do. Yes, there are students whose parents don't encourage them. Yes, there are students who don't want to crack open a book. I've had some of those as well. You motivate them. You talk with the parents and motivate them as well. If they are not interested in their child's education, then you talk to Social Service and Child Protection.

I'm sorry, but I think this is a drastic abuse of the child protection services. There are children out there being hurt, abused possibly even molested by people in their families. Children whose lives are in danger...tying up the CPS services with an education call is extremely irresponsible, IMO. That is NOT what those services are for. They are for children who are in DANGER. I understand that you want the parents to step up, but I don't feel that this is an appropriate way to do it.

ishallnotwant

Referring specifically to public school teachers...

I am a state employee also. I am paid an annual salary less than yours. You are off through the whole of June and July while I work. But you tell me that you can't teach my child for 8 hours a day for 180 days out of the year. This same child that I teach at home and deal with for that remaining time that you don't. Granted, there are other children to teach, but sometimes this is just hard for me to swallow. I actually don't mind paying teachers more, but I do want them to teach my child and not give up halfway through the year just because she is one of your more challenging students.

Thank you I agree and then they want you to start taking time off of work to meet with them on their schedule. I understand it is my child but you can't meet me halfway. In order for me to meet you in the middle of the day I have to take the whole day off of work. My son was sick one day and I was called by the teacher to come and get him thats fine but I work 30 min away and I told them this. Twenty seconds after I hung up the phone I was called back and told if I am not ther in 10min they would call DSS and have them pick my son up. I cannot shorten my commute and before anyone starts I do not send my son to school sick. If he has a fever or is visibly sick he does not go.

Seriously?? HOW often are parent teacher conferences? At our kids' school they are 3 times per school year. You can't take a little bit of time out of your day to do one THREE times during the school year, so you expect the teacher to work around you? Do you realize they have sometimes 30 or so children in their class? Do you expect them to drop everything and work around the schedules of 30 parents? Is your kid's education important to you or not? I am pretty shocked that you are complaining about taking time off to get your sick child, too. No wonder you get along so well with the complaining poster you responded to. Would you like the school to just raise the children for you too? Maybe you could work something out where they feed them and house them for the nights. Crazy. You are an excellent example of the entitled parent being spoken of in this very thread. I'm sorry your child and their education is such an inconvenience. God forbid the teacher not work 24 hours per day to fit into YOUR schedule.

jlr_12

Reading through most of this has given me such rage haha. I am a teacher (substitute currently, looking for full-time) and my boyfriend always makes comments about how it's an easy job. He does it just to get me going, and does it ever. I'd like to see him in front of 30 15 year olds and see how long he lasts. I get a kick out of the people who comment about having weekends off, holidays and summer vacation. Do you honestly think that entire time is spent just relaxing? It's not like we get to school and have a binder passed to us containing every lesson for the year, every project, every test, every rubric. It's not like every student in the class as the exact same abilities and motivation. The time off we get is spent planning, trying to find creative lessons to engage the students, marking, doing report cards, or all of the above. When I was doing my practice teaching I spent hours a week planning and marking...and I wasn't even a real teacher yet. I didn't even have the full set of responsibilities that my cooperating teacher had. On top of the actual work that comes with being a teacher...you are also expected to do extra-curriculars. When I get a full-time job I will be coaching at LEAST 1 team during the school year, and will likely be involved with many more activities in the school. If you add up all of the extra hours we have to put in that we're NOT getting paid for (because god knows you don't get enough time during the school day to do all of your planning)...it becomes pretty apparent that we deserve some time in lieu in the summer. And I mean SOME time....many teachers are in and out of the school preparing their classroom and lessons throughout the summer as well.

As the OP stated...no one should judge until they've tried it. And I am not griping...I LOVE teaching. It is incredibly rewarding. But for people to think that it is all rainbows and butterflies and that we don't have to work extremely hard to GET those rewards? (ie. making a difference in a child's life), they need a reality check.

VegesaurusRex

Seriously?? HOW often are parent teacher conferences? At our kids' school they are 3 times per school year. You can't take a little bit of time out of your day to do one THREE times during the school year, so you expect the teacher to work around you? Do you realize they have sometimes 30 or so children in their class? Do you expect them to drop everything and work around the schedules of 30 parents? Is your kid's education important to you or not? I am pretty shocked that you are complaining about taking time off to get your sick child, too. No wonder you get along so well with the complaining poster you responded to. Would you like the school to just raise the children for you too? Maybe you could work something out where they feed them and house them for the nights. Crazy. You are an excellent example of the entitled parent being spoken of in this very thread. I'm sorry your child and their education is such an inconvenience. God forbid the teacher not work 24 hours per day to fit into YOUR schedule.

Great! Just what I would expect. In my business if I want to succeed I have to make the client happy. That may mean doing things at times that are inconvenient for me. But that is the way Capitalism is. I think you should get a bracelet that says WWJED - What would Jaime Escalentes do? If you want to know the answer to that question, see the movie STAND AND DELIVER about one of the greatest public school teachers of all times. JE never asked anyone to accomodate him. And John Tayor Gatto. New York Teacher of the year until he got fired for fighting against the system and advocating home schooling. There are many really great teachers like those two. Do you think, with your attitude, people will be making a movie about you?

kbee784

From a fellow teacher, preach on!!

I love my job, love my kids, LOVE what I do. It is NOT easy and I spend HOURS at my school after the kids leave, and I get there hours before they do. It's NOT an easy job.

BuffaloJerseyGirl

It also blows my mind that people say, "Must be nice to get off at 3:30."

I also am already at work before you're even awake, genius. It evens out.

Ha! I love that one! And RARELY do I leave when my students do...and if I am, you better believe I'm taking work home with me to work on after I get dinner made, the kitchen cleaned up and all the other chores/errands that have to get done!

sjtreely

I'm a teacher. I've read every page. I've read every post. I don't even know where to begin. My career has been spent in Title I schools - all 26 years.

This much I know is true ... over the last 26 years I've seen many changes occur in public education. Some for the good. Sadly, some for the worse.

Students today are not like the students of 15 years ago. Many are not like the students of just 5 years ago. There's a sense of entitlement like never before with Americans. Not just in education, but every where. It's a systemic problem. I believe it's going to get worse before it gets better. And to me, that's scary.

I believe we're a nation in crisis. Children are raising children. Right, wrong, or indifferent - that makes things difficult. Some of today's parents aren't equipped with the tools necessary to raise healthy, well adjusted children.

I teach in a school corporation of the very affluent and those in extreme poverty. When I started teaching we didn't feed children breakfast. Now we do. When I started teaching we didn't offer day care before and after school. Now we do. When I started teaching we didn't send food home with children on the weekend. Now we do.

As the most abundant nation in the world, we still have problems.. Serious problems. And to help solve them, we need people from all walks of life - those in business, those in non-profit, those who are educated, and those who aren't. And, please, can we add teachers on the committees that are trying to figure out the solutions? We can add valuable insight to what is really happening in the classrooms and we might just have some good ideas to bring to the table.

As a teacher, one of the things I'm most proud to say is that I'm an ISTA and NEA member. I feel honored to be a part of such professional organizations. My arm wasn't twisted to become a member. I pay my dues willingly.

Over the years I've lobbied many times. My representatives and senators know my voice when I call. As they should. When I drive to the state house to speak with them, they know what I look like. I work like the ****ens to get meetings with them while I lobby. Most often I'm successful. Many sit nicely while I talk and share my joys and concerns about public education in Indiana. Some even listen.

However, only one has agreed to come to my school and see first hand the issues I speak so passionately about. One. To me, that's sad. My own senator won't even come to my school. Every year I ask him. Every year he declines. Nicely, but he still declines.

My point with that is we have for the most part middle income people with middle income values making decisions about those in poverty. I get they're busy. I really do. But we have serious problems and we need serious solutions and until we have representatives go to the schools and see first hand our struggles then we are climbing an up hill battle.

Education is not unique to other professions. We have good teachers and we have not so good teachers. Most, however, are great teachers.

In a perfect world those who have posted about the ease of my job would be able to shadow a teacher for a week ... from Sunday night to Saturday morning. This would give you a better understanding of our job responsibilities. My guess is you would have the same remark as the one representative who chose to come to my school, "Wow, I had know idea." His words. Not mine.

And, for what it's worth - you're darn right I like June, July, and August. I like spring break and winter break, too. I love the perks of my job and certainly the calendar is one of them. So, you kinda have to take the good with the not so good sometimes. I will never apologize for the calendar we keep.

I'm not complaining ... just trying my best to do some explaining.

futbolkt21

I'm a teacher. I've read every page. I've read every post. I don't even know where to begin. My career has been spent in Title I schools - all 26 years.

This much I know is true ... over the last 26 years I've seen many changes occur in public education. Some for the good. Sadly, some for the worse.

Students today are not like the students of 15 years ago. Many are not like the students of just 5 years ago. There's a sense of entitlement like never before with Americans. Not just in education, but every where. It's a systemic problem. I believe it's going to get worse before it gets better. And to me, that's scary.

I believe we're a nation in crisis. Children are raising children. Right, wrong, or indifferent - that makes things difficult. Some of today's parents aren't equipped with the tools necessary to raise healthy, well adjusted children.

I teach in a school corporation of the very affluent and those in extreme poverty. When I started teaching we didn't feed children breakfast. Now we do. When I started teaching we didn't offer day care before and after school. Now we do. When I started teaching we didn't send food home with children on the weekend. Now we do.

As the most abundant nation in the world, we still have problems.. Serious problems. And to help solve them, we need people from all walks of life - those in business, those in non-profit, those who are educated, and those who aren't. And, please, can we add teachers on the committees that are trying to figure out the solutions? We can add valuable insight to what is really happening in the classrooms and we might just have some good ideas to bring to the table.

As a teacher, one of the things I'm most proud to say is that I'm an ISTA and NEA member. I feel honored to be a part of such professional organizations. My arm wasn't twisted to become a member. I pay my dues willingly.

Over the years I've lobbied many times. My representatives and senators know my voice when I call. As they should. When I drive to the state house to speak with them, they know what I look like. I work like the ****ens to get meetings with them while I lobby. Most often I'm successful. Many sit nicely while I talk and share my joys and concerns about public education in Indiana. Some even listen.

However, only one has agreed to come to my school and see first hand the issues I speak so passionately about. One. To me, that's sad. My own senator won't even come to my school. Every year I ask him. Every year he declines. Nicely, but he still declines.

My point with that is we have for the most part middle income people with middle income values making decisions about those in poverty. I get they're busy. I really do. But we have serious problems and we need serious solutions and until we have representatives go to the schools and see first hand our struggles then we are climbing an up hill battle.

Education is not unique to other professions. We have good teachers and we have not so good teachers. Most, however, are great teachers.

In a perfect world those who have posted about the ease of my job would be able to shadow a teacher for a week ... from Sunday night to Saturday morning. This would give you a better understanding of our job responsibilities. My guess is you would have the same remark as the one representative who chose to come to my school, "Wow, I had know idea." His words. Not mine.

And, for what it's worth - you're darn right I like June, July, and August. I like spring break and winter break, too. I love the perks of my job and certainly the calendar is one of them. So, you kinda have to take the good with the not so good sometimes. I will never apologize for the calendar we keep.

I'm not complaining ... just trying my best to do some explaining.

Very well said!

And for the record, there would be a very high burn out rate if we didn't have those 8 weeks!

VegesaurusRex

I'm a teacher. I've read every page. I've read every post. I don't even know where to begin. My career has been spent in Title I schools - all 26 years.

This much I know is true ... over the last 26 years I've seen many changes occur in public education. Some for the good. Sadly, some for the worse.

Students today are not like the students of 15 years ago. Many are not like the students of just 5 years ago. There's a sense of entitlement like never before with Americans. Not just in education, but every where. It's a systemic problem. I believe it's going to get worse before it gets better. And to me, that's scary.

I believe we're a nation in crisis. Children are raising children. Right, wrong, or indifferent - that makes things difficult. Some of today's parents aren't equipped with the tools necessary to raise healthy, well adjusted children.

I teach in a school corporation of the very affluent and those in extreme poverty. When I started teaching we didn't feed children breakfast. Now we do. When I started teaching we didn't offer day care before and after school. Now we do. When I started teaching we didn't send food home with children on the weekend. Now we do.

As the most abundant nation in the world, we still have problems.. Serious problems. And to help solve them, we need people from all walks of life - those in business, those in non-profit, those who are educated, and those who aren't. And, please, can we add teachers on the committees that are trying to figure out the solutions? We can add valuable insight to what is really happening in the classrooms and we might just have some good ideas to bring to the table.

As a teacher, one of the things I'm most proud to say is that I'm an ISTA and NEA member. I feel honored to be a part of such professional organizations. My arm wasn't twisted to become a member. I pay my dues willingly.

Over the years I've lobbied many times. My representatives and senators know my voice when I call. As they should. When I drive to the state house to speak with them, they know what I look like. I work like the ****ens to get meetings with them while I lobby. Most often I'm successful. Many sit nicely while I talk and share my joys and concerns about public education in Indiana. Some even listen.

However, only one has agreed to come to my school and see first hand the issues I speak so passionately about. One. To me, that's sad. My own senator won't even come to my school. Every year I ask him. Every year he declines. Nicely, but he still declines.

My point with that is we have for the most part middle income people with middle income values making decisions about those in poverty. I get they're busy. I really do. But we have serious problems and we need serious solutions and until we have representatives go to the schools and see first hand our struggles then we are climbing an up hill battle.

Education is not unique to other professions. We have good teachers and we have not so good teachers. Most, however, are great teachers.

In a perfect world those who have posted about the ease of my job would be able to shadow a teacher for a week ... from Sunday night to Saturday morning. This would give you a better understanding of our job responsibilities. My guess is you would have the same remark as the one representative who chose to come to my school, "Wow, I had know idea." His words. Not mine.

And, for what it's worth - you're darn right I like June, July, and August. I like spring break and winter break, too. I love the perks of my job and certainly the calendar is one of them. So, you kinda have to take the good with the not so good sometimes. I will never apologize for the calendar we keep.

I'm not complaining ... just trying my best to do some explaining.

Not trying to belittle your working, but frankly, if you consider yourself a professional, then you truly have it easier than any other profession. Take lawyers, for example, first they have to get into law school, graduate and pass the bar. Most are usually in debt. Then as a reward they get a job working 16 hours per day for several years. When they finally make it, they still work 12 hours per day.

Take doctors. First they have to get into medical school. Then after four years, Internship, working sometimes 2 or 3 days without sleep. Then they go into practice, heavily in debt, or take a fellowship and work several more years. By the time they get out and can finally start making money, they are in their thirties.

Sorry, if I don't feel your pain, but you are the only "professionals" who get several months per year off.

futbolkt21

I'm a teacher. I've read every page. I've read every post. I don't even know where to begin. My career has been spent in Title I schools - all 26 years.

This much I know is true ... over the last 26 years I've seen many changes occur in public education. Some for the good. Sadly, some for the worse.

Students today are not like the students of 15 years ago. Many are not like the students of just 5 years ago. There's a sense of entitlement like never before with Americans. Not just in education, but every where. It's a systemic problem. I believe it's going to get worse before it gets better. And to me, that's scary.

I believe we're a nation in crisis. Children are raising children. Right, wrong, or indifferent - that makes things difficult. Some of today's parents aren't equipped with the tools necessary to raise healthy, well adjusted children.

I teach in a school corporation of the very affluent and those in extreme poverty. When I started teaching we didn't feed children breakfast. Now we do. When I started teaching we didn't offer day care before and after school. Now we do. When I started teaching we didn't send food home with children on the weekend. Now we do.

As the most abundant nation in the world, we still have problems.. Serious problems. And to help solve them, we need people from all walks of life - those in business, those in non-profit, those who are educated, and those who aren't. And, please, can we add teachers on the committees that are trying to figure out the solutions? We can add valuable insight to what is really happening in the classrooms and we might just have some good ideas to bring to the table.

As a teacher, one of the things I'm most proud to say is that I'm an ISTA and NEA member. I feel honored to be a part of such professional organizations. My arm wasn't twisted to become a member. I pay my dues willingly.

Over the years I've lobbied many times. My representatives and senators know my voice when I call. As they should. When I drive to the state house to speak with them, they know what I look like. I work like the ****ens to get meetings with them while I lobby. Most often I'm successful. Many sit nicely while I talk and share my joys and concerns about public education in Indiana. Some even listen.

However, only one has agreed to come to my school and see first hand the issues I speak so passionately about. One. To me, that's sad. My own senator won't even come to my school. Every year I ask him. Every year he declines. Nicely, but he still declines.

My point with that is we have for the most part middle income people with middle income values making decisions about those in poverty. I get they're busy. I really do. But we have serious problems and we need serious solutions and until we have representatives go to the schools and see first hand our struggles then we are climbing an up hill battle.

Education is not unique to other professions. We have good teachers and we have not so good teachers. Most, however, are great teachers.

In a perfect world those who have posted about the ease of my job would be able to shadow a teacher for a week ... from Sunday night to Saturday morning. This would give you a better understanding of our job responsibilities. My guess is you would have the same remark as the one representative who chose to come to my school, "Wow, I had know idea." His words. Not mine.

And, for what it's worth - you're darn right I like June, July, and August. I like spring break and winter break, too. I love the perks of my job and certainly the calendar is one of them. So, you kinda have to take the good with the not so good sometimes. I will never apologize for the calendar we keep.

I'm not complaining ... just trying my best to do some explaining.

Not trying to belittle your working, but frankly, if you consider yourself a professional, then you truly have it easier than any other profession. Take lawyers, for example, first they have to get into law school, graduate and pass the bar. Most are usually in debt. Then as a reward they get a job working 16 hours per day for several years. When they finally make it, they still work 12 hours per day.

Take doctors. First they have to get into medical school. Then after four years, Internship, working sometimes 2 or 3 days without sleep. Then they go into practice, heavily in debt, or take a fellowship and work several more years. By the time they get out and can finally start making money, they are in their thirties.

Sorry, if I don't feel your pain, but you are the only "professionals" who get several months per year off.

We are also paid as 10 month employees. And your argument doesn't really work. You'd have a point if doctors and lawyers got paid $30,000 a year.

VegesaurusRex

We are also paid as 10 month employees. And your argument doesn't really work. You'd have a point if doctors and lawyers got paid $30,000 a year.

Do you know what a lawyer gets paid while in law school? Or a doctor while in medical school? Or an internist (probably about $35,000 )

Do you know what kind of debts they have to repay for their education?

And teachers in Connecticut where I live average between $50,000 and $60,000 per year. So saying they don't get paid for summer is misleading.

pucenavel

Imagine if when you needed a pencil at your work, you had to go buy your own. That's what it's like for teachers.

My wife is a teacher - we spend on average around $500/year buying supplies for other people's children.

futbolkt21

We are also paid as 10 month employees. And your argument doesn't really work. You'd have a point if doctors and lawyers got paid $30,000 a year.

Do you know what a lawyer gets paid while in law school? Or a doctor while in medical school? Or an internist (probably about $35,000 )

Do you know what kind of debts they have to repay for their education?

And teachers in Connecticut where I live average between $50,000 and $60,000 per year. So saying they don't get paid for summer is misleading.

I am a teacher in NC and get paid $30,000. Haven't had a raise since I moved here 4 years ago. Had a much nicer salary whenI was teaching up north. Anyway, I am a ten month employee, but I choose to have my salary spread out over the 12 months. I also work every summer to help supplement my income.

Anyway, back to the point. No, there aren't any other careers in which you have a sumer break. But like I said before, the burn out rate would be unbelievably high if it weren't for those 8 weeks off. I need those 8 weeks to recover, plan for the next year, and work a second job.

I love my job, I love my students, and I love knowing that I am making a difference whether it goes recognized or not.

KimmieBrie

We are also paid as 10 month employees. And your argument doesn't really work. You'd have a point if doctors and lawyers got paid $30,000 a year.

Maybe where you are... but here the ones I know make 50k to about 70k (70k is a Boston Public school teacher I know - city salary is higher - and deservedly so). Good teachers deserve their salary and all the bennies that go with it. Bad teachers don't. The system stinks. Changes need to be made...

futbolkt21

We are also paid as 10 month employees. And your argument doesn't really work. You'd have a point if doctors and lawyers got paid $30,000 a year.

Maybe where you are... but here the ones I know make 50k to about 70k (70k is a Boston Public school teacher I know - city salary is higher - and deservedly so). Good teachers deserve their salary and all the bennies that go with it. Bad teachers don't. The system stinks. Changes need to be made...

Oh, I know. I used to teach in Maryland--top school system in the nation. There are unions up north and therefore the pay is much higher. I just wanted to clear up the misconception that ALL states pay teachers that well.