Legit question regarding building muscle and calories

mamitosami

bumping for info.

NoAdditives

Assumption: building muscle means growing new tissue, not strengthening existing muscle.

There is no such thing as "toning." You're either building muscle or not. You will create muscle even in a calorie deficit diet, but not as much as if you were eating more. The "toning" affect you see is low body fat percentage.

Wrong. Or at least for the most part you are wrong.

People new to heavy lifting can grow new a very small amount of new muscle for a very short period of time. The body requires a calorie surplus to build muscle tissue.

You can't build an addition onto your house without a surplus of building materials. See the parallel?

You can strengthen existing muscle on a deficit. So you can get stronger. You can't get bigger.

The part about toning is correct... Toning refers to exposing existing muscle by burning the fat that hides it.

Yep.

Topsking2010

bump

Rae6503

The simplest way to think of it is:

You can't build something from nothing. When you are dieting you are eating less energy than the body needs. Very rarely will it use any of the precious energy you are giving it to build new tissue.

3dogsrunning

i am pretty small and it seems that whatever weight-work or strenthg training i do i GAIN muslce almost immediately - i cant explain the reasons for this, other than perhaps becuase im small that it shows easily?/

i do know that the scales go up very fast, and that if i have a few days 'off' the gym' i lose... go figrue?!

Usually this scale change - and "puffed muscle" or "more visible muscle" change you see when first starting a new training program, or upping weights, or increasing exercise regiment is NOT muscle gain or growth. If you are at a low bodyfat level - this will be very visible, especially right after exercising. You will see more pumped muscle, more definition. (looks pretty hot too)

Also - right after working out - the blood flow is increased in the muscle you are working - this also adds temporary fullness, and inch gain.

It is water, fluids, and Glycogen storage in the muscle. When muscles are first used, or stressed in a new different way, or weight is increased - they are damaged, and have tiny tears, This is good, as its key to encouraging your body to keep, repair, and with time build on new muscle tissue.

But to do this, the body fills the area with extra water, and glycogen pools in the tissue, making them look "puffier" then normal, or more defined. This can last a few days, even a week or two.

And it also increases scale weight. After a period of time, body adapts (or if you take time off from lifting, or get into a routine, where you are not increasing the stress load) - as the body adapts, it begins to release some of the extra water stores - and scale weight drops. Sometimes very dramatically.

If you change your routine often, increase weight often, you will see this bounce up and down pretty constantly. But overall , you will see inch loss in the long term picture, as fat levels drop.

I have easily gained 5 lbs in one day, when coming back from a rest period, and upping my lifting weight - and a week or so later - lost that 5 lbs. But overall size and inches really have not changed.

Its all water. Its also normal.

You said that so much better than I was going to.

patricia909

bump

Bikini27

The simplest way to think of it is:

You can't build something from nothing. When you are dieting you are eating less energy than the body needs. Very rarely will it use any of the precious energy you are giving it to build new tissue.

Hmm...a thought on this, what most of us on here consider "dieting" it really means we're eating what our body can put to use versus eating more than what our body can use and then stores the remainder as fat. When we are working out, we are using said energy and producing the muscles that are forming from actual use and not sitting on our arses. I'm guessing, but I would say 90% of the people that join this site? Were eating 3000+ cals a day, then sitting all day watching tv/working at their desks/going to school/etc.

So, in short: It's not a diet, it's simply eating correctly for our activity level, hence eating back excercise calories.

Rae6503

The simplest way to think of it is:

You can't build something from nothing. When you are dieting you are eating less energy than the body needs. Very rarely will it use any of the precious energy you are giving it to build new tissue.

Hmm...a thought on this, what most of us on here consider "dieting" it really means we're eating what our body can put to use versus eating more than what our body can use and then stores the remainder as fat. When we are working out, we are using said energy and producing the muscles that are forming from actual use and not sitting on our arses. I'm guessing, but I would say 90% of the people that join this site? Were eating 3000+ cals a day, then sitting all day watching tv/working at their desks/going to school/etc.

So, in short: It's not a diet, it's simply eating correctly for our activity level, hence eating back excercise calories.

Not really. If we are "dieting" we are eating less than our body uses (this use includes exercise, exercise increases use), which is why it needs to use stored fat. If were were maintaining we'd be eating exactly what it used. Personally I am eating MORE than I use so that my body can use the excess to build muscle and I'm lifting weights to provide it with the stimulus to make it build muscle and not store fat.

Rae6503

If anyone is really interested, this is a good read:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html

RonSwanson66

If anyone is really interested, this is a good read:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html

Good article, but this one is more to the point:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

Rae6503

If anyone is really interested, this is a good read:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html

Good article, but this one is more to the point:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

Thanks. I knew there was a better one but I just couldn't find it. I've read so many of his that are great that they've all started to blend together.

surfrgrl1

If anyone is really interested, this is a good read:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html

Good article, but this one is more to the point:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

Crap, I'm an "overfat beginner", but the good news, at least there is hope for me! Thanks for the post!

thefuzz1290

Assumption: building muscle means growing new tissue, not strengthening existing muscle.

There is no such thing as "toning." You're either building muscle or not. You will create muscle even in a calorie deficit diet, but not as much as if you were eating more. The "toning" affect you see is low body fat percentage.

Wrong. Or at least for the most part you are wrong.

People new to heavy lifting can grow new a very small amount of new muscle for a very short period of time. The body requires a calorie surplus to build muscle tissue.

You can't build an addition onto your house without a surplus of building materials. See the parallel?

You can strengthen existing muscle on a deficit. So you can get stronger. You can't get bigger.

The part about toning is correct... Toning refers to exposing existing muscle by burning the fat that hides it.

Actually you're wrong, for the most part :P. If the person is on a calorie deficient, but higher protein, diet, it is possible to build muscle. I also assumed, by the nature of the question, that it was asked by someone who was new to lifting so the newbie gains would be evident.

ash1976

Muscle and fat are two completely different types of cells... your body can in no way convert one to the other. Your body cannot convert muscle into fat and you cannot convert fat into muscle.

Right. But let's say, for the sake of argument, that I have a lot of fat to lose (which, as it turns out, I do). If I'm eating at a deficit, my body is going to be burning that fat for basic metabolic functions, correct? Meanwhile, I'm tearing the hell out of my muscle fibers by lifting heavy, and I'm eating protein in higher proportion to the other macros. Now, doesn't it make sense that my body's going to utilize that protein intake for muscle repair/growth, because that's basically *all* it can be used for? Meanwhile, energy for all other processes continue to come from stored fat and/or glucose (carbs) intake, yes?

So, in a simplified way, I *would* be burning fat to build muscle, it's just not a direct conversion, which is, as you say, impossible.

Seems highly logical.

dad106

Assumption: building muscle means growing new tissue, not strengthening existing muscle.

There is no such thing as "toning." You're either building muscle or not. You will create muscle even in a calorie deficit diet, but not as much as if you were eating more. The "toning" affect you see is low body fat percentage.

Wrong. Or at least for the most part you are wrong.

People new to heavy lifting can grow new a very small amount of new muscle for a very short period of time. The body requires a calorie surplus to build muscle tissue.

You can't build an addition onto your house without a surplus of building materials. See the parallel?

You can strengthen existing muscle on a deficit. So you can get stronger. You can't get bigger.

The part about toning is correct... Toning refers to exposing existing muscle by burning the fat that hides it.

Actually you're wrong, for the most part :P. If the person is on a calorie deficient, but higher protein, diet, it is possible to build muscle. I also assumed, by the nature of the question, that it was asked by someone who was new to lifting so the newbie gains would be evident.

I asked my trainer this exact question last night, and what he told me is what thefuzz1290 posted.

He said that if you are in a moderate calorie deficit(like 300ish calories) and eating high protein(50% or more) that you can gain muscle.. but obviously individual people will be different and those numbers are different for each person.

SHBoss1673

I posted this in my health blog a while back, please read it, it explains everything you asked.

http://bankshealth.wordpress.com/2011/06/27/weight-gain-with-new-exercise-programs/

SHBoss1673

Assumption: building muscle means growing new tissue, not strengthening existing muscle.

There is no such thing as "toning." You're either building muscle or not. You will create muscle even in a calorie deficit diet, but not as much as if you were eating more. The "toning" affect you see is low body fat percentage.

Wrong. Or at least for the most part you are wrong.

People new to heavy lifting can grow new a very small amount of new muscle for a very short period of time. The body requires a calorie surplus to build muscle tissue.

You can't build an addition onto your house without a surplus of building materials. See the parallel?

You can strengthen existing muscle on a deficit. So you can get stronger. You can't get bigger.

The part about toning is correct... Toning refers to exposing existing muscle by burning the fat that hides it.

Actually you're wrong, for the most part :P. If the person is on a calorie deficient, but higher protein, diet, it is possible to build muscle. I also assumed, by the nature of the question, that it was asked by someone who was new to lifting so the newbie gains would be evident.

I asked my trainer this exact question last night, and what he told me is what thefuzz1290 posted.

He said that if you are in a moderate calorie deficit(like 300ish calories) and eating high protein(50% or more) that you can gain muscle.. but obviously individual people will be different and those numbers are different for each person.

this is false based on all the medical research I've done. And I've done a lot. You can activate dormant fibers, and increase strength, and increase water around the activated tissue which will "look" like muscle gain, but it's not actually building muscle fibers. Let your trainer know, it could lead to an embarrassing moment if they ever stated that to someone with a background in human anatomy (it's actually a known concept in medical communities)

rybo

Great article SHBoss

But, I think where I lot of confusion comes in is when it comes to layman's terms about what constitutes "building muscle". Yes from a biological/anatomical standpoint building muscle is only when more fibers are created etc, etc.

But to the average person at the gym, when more fibers are activated, and the ensuining build up of fluid around them, which induces greater size because more fibers are being activated, everyone is going to call that building muscle.

If a person sees their muscles getting bigger, and they are getting stronger, it's human nature that they are going to say they are building muscle. And I really don't think a single one cares that it's only because dormant fibers have been activiated, and the "building" is the fluid gain side effects associated with it.

MaximalLife

Great article SHBoss

But, I think where I lot of confusion comes in is when it comes to layman's terms about what constitutes "building muscle". Yes from a biological/anatomical standpoint building muscle is only when more fibers are created etc, etc.

But to the average person at the gym, when more fibers are activated, and the ensuining build up of fluid around them, which induces greater size because more fibers are being activated, everyone is going to call that building muscle.

If a person sees their muscles getting bigger, and they are getting stronger, it's human nature that they are going to say they are building muscle. And I really don't think a single one cares that it's only because dormant fibers have been activiated, and the "building" is the fluid gain side effects associated with it.

I care, because I never stopped working my muscles - even fat.
And my struggle has been retaining as much muscle while losing fat.

It just ain't happening.
I've lost muscle and strength which is what conventional wisdom says will happen.

For 2 months I've maintained weight - afraid to lose any more, fearing further muscle erosion.
I'd love to know how somebody in my position could lose fat and gain muscle.

Somebody once said it's like driving to Mexico and Canada at the same time.
Can't be done....
I set these goals 2 years ago, and now that I reached that, I want a smaller waist but still retain muscle.
It is my plan to start another fat loss push in March once by body catches up - another month of maintenance which would make 3 months total.

I am going to suck it up and go for the fat loss.
I just don't want to end up a little, thin guy....a girly man - :sick:

bcattoes

Great article SHBoss

But, I think where I lot of confusion comes in is when it comes to layman's terms about what constitutes "building muscle". Yes from a biological/anatomical standpoint building muscle is only when more fibers are created etc, etc.

But to the average person at the gym, when more fibers are activated, and the ensuining build up of fluid around them, which induces greater size because more fibers are being activated, everyone is going to call that building muscle.

If a person sees their muscles getting bigger, and they are getting stronger, it's human nature that they are going to say they are building muscle. And I really don't think a single one cares that it's only because dormant fibers have been activiated, and the "building" is the fluid gain side effects associated with it.

Best reponse I've ever read on this subject. Thank you!