Government recognizing Gay and Lesbian
Replies
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I think if we dropped the marriage part and just called it union or something like that all the fuzz would go away
Marriage is pretty much a religious term between a man & a woman, so yeah I agree with you.
So...straight couples who get married at City Hall shouldn't be considered married...?
No, because that's still a marriage (man & woman), the term marriage originates from the bible & the bible says that being gay is an abomination to God, so I don't think it should be called marriage if you understand my reasoning?
christians did not invent marriage
Even before the term marriage was coined, it was still man & woman tied together in a ceremony, then the word marriage was applied to that.
This is absolutely not true at all. All societies, long before Christianity came around, celebrated and condoned marriage, both heterosexual and homosexual. It was considered perfectly normal and acceptable, thousands of years ago.
Not all societies celebrated it.0 -
I think if we dropped the marriage part and just called it union or something like that all the fuzz would go away
Not unless you "call it union or something like that" for straight people too! If the word used is marriage for two people of opposite genders, it needs to be marriage for two people of the same gender as well. Separate but equal wasn't good enough for people of color, and it's not good enough for us. We are not going to accept "something like marriage" unless you do too!
Since when were gay people ever viewed as 2/3 human? Drawing a link between homosexual rights movement and the civil rights movement is a slap in the face to everyone involved.
Well, considering this country gives me roughly 2/3 of the rights of straight people, I'd say that's fairly accurate.0 -
I
christians did not invent marriage
Even before the term marriage was coined, it was still man & woman tied together in a ceremony, then the word marriage was applied to that.
[/quote]
This is absolutely not true at all. All societies, long before Christianity came around, celebrated and condoned marriage, both heterosexual and homosexual. It was considered perfectly normal and acceptable, thousands of years ago.
[/quote]
Thousands of years ago...there were Christians. Marriage is only Marriage because the Bible says so.0 -
My fear of governments recognizing this type of marriage which is completely fine in and of itself but I can see people wanting to push the line further. Let men and women marry under aged or marry their pets or marry their parents or something. Those people have rights just like straight people, bi people, gay/lesbian, and whatever else there is. So the envelope keeps getting pushed as we are constantly seeking fairness in all things. It's always changing and being modified which is nice that we have that opportunity but holy crap! It could go upside down.:noway:0
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Agree with the OP.
If straight couples didn't keep having gay babies the problem wouldn't exist. Its completely natural.
There are so many shades of grey in this life. Live and let live.
As for god, we all know about Lilith, Eve and Adam etc, so if its anyones fault, its god for making the partnership unequal rather than leaving it balanced
Where has it been proven that it's genetic?
And where has it been proven that it's any of your business regardless of whether it's genetic or not? Either way equality must prevail.
(for the record, in the words of Lady Gaga, I strongly believe that I was Born This Way!)
Okay, so you say you were born that way...like all of you do. Even a woman I know who swore that she was born that way....who after she had been married to a man for over a decade was with women for as many years. Funny though, she just married a man again a few months ago.
God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that a person becomes a homosexual because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of their OWN CHOICE. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins.
That does NOT excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger / rage, does that make it right for them to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true for homosexuality.
That is what the fight is about. That is why true Christians oppose this. That and b/c it's being taught in school that it is normal and okay when really the foundation of this country was built on the principles that say otherwise. Tollerance...that's okay. But that's where it should end.
If you don't believe in God...Okay. But please don't say that God made you this way. If you plan on going to Heaven when you die, then get back on the straight and narrow. If you think that you go nowhere when you die, then there is no sense in talking about it.
It all boils down to what is moral and what if anything will happen as a result of your decision. I could give a crap if you marry the same sex, but leave it out of the schools.
sorry, God made me gay! As for the lady who said she was gay but ended up marrying a man--um, good for her? I know plenty of people who thought they were straight and ended up in a same sex relationship later in life. See, I don't really care what other people do. I don't care if other people feel they were born gay or chose to be gay. To me, it doesn't matter. I don't care what two consenting adults do.
All I want are EQUAL RIGHTS. The bible SHOULD NOT dictate the laws of a country. I'm not asking to be married in a church or by a priest, etc.
And for the record, the bible also says that cutting your hair is a sin, that woman are not equal to men and that wearing synthetic fabrics is immoral. So do you just pick and choose what parts of the bible are convenient for you to follow? What about divorce? The bible is pretty clear on that...yet look how many of your leaders end up divorced, married multiple times and with mistresses...
It's just none of your business. It doesn't effect your religion. If you don't agree with same sex marriage, then keep on marrying people of the opposite sex. I think sex with men is ICKY, but I'm not trying to convert you!
The Bible dictates whether or not we vote to allow it. And for the record, trying to quote the Bible without the education is a real pet peeve. Old Testament law is quite different since blood was shed for our sins. I disobey the Bible many times every day because I'm human....not as perfect as you think...but to answer your question I do not pick and choose what parts are convenient to follow...unlike most "Christians". That is why my stance is clear on this.
And trying to meddle into something that doesn't even remotely effect you and your religion is a pet peeve of mine. So stop trying to understand how I was born gay, and I'll stop trying to the understand what the heck you're talking about.0 -
I think if we dropped the marriage part and just called it union or something like that all the fuzz would go away
Not unless you "call it union or something like that" for straight people too! If the word used is marriage for two people of opposite genders, it needs to be marriage for two people of the same gender as well. Separate but equal wasn't good enough for people of color, and it's not good enough for us. We are not going to accept "something like marriage" unless you do too!
Since when were gay people ever viewed as 2/3 human? Drawing a link between homosexual rights movement and the civil rights movement is a slap in the face to everyone involved.
Well, considering this country gives me roughly 2/3 of the rights of straight people, I'd say that's fairly accurate.
See that's not true. You have the same rights. What you want is more rights.0 -
My fear of governments recognizing this type of marriage which is completely fine in and of itself but I can see people wanting to push the line further. Let men and women marry under aged or marry their pets or marry their parents or something. Those people have rights just like straight people, bi people, gay/lesbian, and whatever else there is. So the envelope keeps getting pushed as we are constantly seeking fairness in all things. It's always changing and being modified which is nice that we have that opportunity but holy crap! It could go upside down.:noway:
Children are not consenting adults.
Pets are not consenting adults.
Not everything is a slippery slope.0 -
Thousands of years ago...there were Christians. Marriage is only Marriage because the Bible says so.
LMAO! Are you serious?0 -
I
christians did not invent marriage
Even before the term marriage was coined, it was still man & woman tied together in a ceremony, then the word marriage was applied to that.
This is absolutely not true at all. All societies, long before Christianity came around, celebrated and condoned marriage, both heterosexual and homosexual. It was considered perfectly normal and acceptable, thousands of years ago.
[/quote]
Thousands of years ago...there were Christians. Marriage is only Marriage because the Bible says so.
[/quote]
Humans were getting married long before Christianity or even Judeic faiths came into existence.0 -
My fear of governments recognizing this type of marriage which is completely fine in and of itself but I can see people wanting to push the line further. Let men and women marry under aged or marry their pets or marry their parents or something. Those people have rights just like straight people, bi people, gay/lesbian, and whatever else there is. So the envelope keeps getting pushed as we are constantly seeking fairness in all things. It's always changing and being modified which is nice that we have that opportunity but holy crap! It could go upside down.:noway:
Children are not consenting adults.
Pets are not consenting adults.
Not everything is a slippery slope.
Thank you!0 -
Agree with the OP.
If straight couples didn't keep having gay babies the problem wouldn't exist. Its completely natural.
There are so many shades of grey in this life. Live and let live.
As for god, we all know about Lilith, Eve and Adam etc, so if its anyones fault, its god for making the partnership unequal rather than leaving it balanced
Where has it been proven that it's genetic?
And where has it been proven that it's any of your business regardless of whether it's genetic or not? Either way equality must prevail.
(for the record, in the words of Lady Gaga, I strongly believe that I was Born This Way!)
Okay, so you say you were born that way...like all of you do. Even a woman I know who swore that she was born that way....who after she had been married to a man for over a decade was with women for as many years. Funny though, she just married a man again a few months ago.
God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that a person becomes a homosexual because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of their OWN CHOICE. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins.
That does NOT excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger / rage, does that make it right for them to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true for homosexuality.
That is what the fight is about. That is why true Christians oppose this. That and b/c it's being taught in school that it is normal and okay when really the foundation of this country was built on the principles that say otherwise. Tollerance...that's okay. But that's where it should end.
If you don't believe in God...Okay. But please don't say that God made you this way. If you plan on going to Heaven when you die, then get back on the straight and narrow. If you think that you go nowhere when you die, then there is no sense in talking about it.
It all boils down to what is moral and what if anything will happen as a result of your decision. I could give a crap if you marry the same sex, but leave it out of the schools.
sorry, God made me gay! As for the lady who said she was gay but ended up marrying a man--um, good for her? I know plenty of people who thought they were straight and ended up in a same sex relationship later in life. See, I don't really care what other people do. I don't care if other people feel they were born gay or chose to be gay. To me, it doesn't matter. I don't care what two consenting adults do.
All I want are EQUAL RIGHTS. The bible SHOULD NOT dictate the laws of a country. I'm not asking to be married in a church or by a priest, etc.
And for the record, the bible also says that cutting your hair is a sin, that woman are not equal to men and that wearing synthetic fabrics is immoral. So do you just pick and choose what parts of the bible are convenient for you to follow? What about divorce? The bible is pretty clear on that...yet look how many of your leaders end up divorced, married multiple times and with mistresses...
It's just none of your business. It doesn't effect your religion. If you don't agree with same sex marriage, then keep on marrying people of the opposite sex. I think sex with men is ICKY, but I'm not trying to convert you!
The Bible dictates whether or not we vote to allow it. And for the record, trying to quote the Bible without the education is a real pet peeve. Old Testament law is quite different since blood was shed for our sins. I disobey the Bible many times every day because I'm human....not as perfect as you think...but to answer your question I do not pick and choose what parts are convenient to follow...unlike most "Christians". That is why my stance is clear on this.
And trying to meddle into something that doesn't even remotely effect you and your religion is a pet peeve of mine. So stop trying to understand how I was born gay, and I'll stop trying to the understand what the heck you're talking about.
Haha, what meddling? Responding to a forum? I'm not trying to understand anything, I know this already. But if you are a Christian, you might try a little harder to understand. If you aren't...well, I'll just knock the dust off my feet and move on.0 -
I think if we dropped the marriage part and just called it union or something like that all the fuzz would go away
Not unless you "call it union or something like that" for straight people too! If the word used is marriage for two people of opposite genders, it needs to be marriage for two people of the same gender as well. Separate but equal wasn't good enough for people of color, and it's not good enough for us. We are not going to accept "something like marriage" unless you do too!
Since when were gay people ever viewed as 2/3 human? Drawing a link between homosexual rights movement and the civil rights movement is a slap in the face to everyone involved.
Well, considering this country gives me roughly 2/3 of the rights of straight people, I'd say that's fairly accurate.
See that's not true. You have the same rights. What you want is more rights.
FROM LLOYD.............All she is asking for is " equal" rights, not special rights...........0 -
My fear of governments recognizing this type of marriage which is completely fine in and of itself but I can see people wanting to push the line further. Let men and women marry under aged or marry their pets or marry their parents or something. Those people have rights just like straight people, bi people, gay/lesbian, and whatever else there is. So the envelope keeps getting pushed as we are constantly seeking fairness in all things. It's always changing and being modified which is nice that we have that opportunity but holy crap! It could go upside down.:noway:
Children are not consenting adults.
Pets are not consenting adults.
Not everything is a slippery slope.
Thank you!
What about brothers and sisters...Dads are consenting. where does it end? And don't tell me that it's not okay, b/c incest people should have the same rights as everyone else.0 -
Where has it been proven that it's genetic?
From the evidence I have been able to gather, it is a case of nature and nurture.
http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1994-44971-001
Not to mention the close to 1.5k species that have displayed homosexual activity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
Animals also inbreed amongst other things, so that's a terrible example, I was just waiting for this to pop up.
And so do humans. The two are unrelated.
Homosexuality harms no one not involved.
Incest harms future generations.
Perfectly valid.0 -
Marriage has been around for a few thousand years longer than the Bible and Christianity.christians did not invent marriage
Even before the term marriage was coined, it was still man & woman tied together in a ceremony, then the word marriage was applied to that.
This is absolutely not true at all. All societies, long before Christianity came around, celebrated and condoned marriage, both heterosexual and homosexual. It was considered perfectly normal and acceptable, thousands of years ago.
Thousands of years ago...there were Christians. Marriage is only Marriage because the Bible says so.0 -
Where has it been proven that it's genetic?
From the evidence I have been able to gather, it is a case of nature and nurture.
http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1994-44971-001
Not to mention the close to 1.5k species that have displayed homosexual activity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
Animals also inbreed amongst other things, so that's a terrible example, I was just waiting for this to pop up.
And some eat their young. I love it when people bring animals into this discussion. Since when did animals develop the level of reason that humans have. And when did they establish themselves as an equal species?0 -
My fear of governments recognizing this type of marriage which is completely fine in and of itself but I can see people wanting to push the line further. Let men and women marry under aged or marry their pets or marry their parents or something. Those people have rights just like straight people, bi people, gay/lesbian, and whatever else there is. So the envelope keeps getting pushed as we are constantly seeking fairness in all things. It's always changing and being modified which is nice that we have that opportunity but holy crap! It could go upside down.:noway:
Children are not consenting adults.
Pets are not consenting adults.
Not everything is a slippery slope.
Thank you!
What about brothers and sisters...Dads are consenting. where does it end? And don't tell me that it's not okay, b/c incest people should have the same rights as everyone else.
See above. Incest is harmful because of the offspring. Homosexuals produce no offspring. No harm done.0 -
My fear of governments recognizing this type of marriage which is completely fine in and of itself but I can see people wanting to push the line further. Let men and women marry under aged or marry their pets or marry their parents or something. Those people have rights just like straight people, bi people, gay/lesbian, and whatever else there is. So the envelope keeps getting pushed as we are constantly seeking fairness in all things. It's always changing and being modified which is nice that we have that opportunity but holy crap! It could go upside down.:noway:
Children are not consenting adults.
Pets are not consenting adults.
Not everything is a slippery slope.
Thank you!
What about brothers and sisters...Dads are consenting. where does it end? And don't tell me that it's not okay, b/c incest people should have the same rights as everyone else.
Straw man argument.0 -
My fear of governments recognizing this type of marriage which is completely fine in and of itself but I can see people wanting to push the line further. Let men and women marry under aged or marry their pets or marry their parents or something. Those people have rights just like straight people, bi people, gay/lesbian, and whatever else there is. So the envelope keeps getting pushed as we are constantly seeking fairness in all things. It's always changing and being modified which is nice that we have that opportunity but holy crap! It could go upside down.:noway:
Children are not consenting adults.
Pets are not consenting adults.
Not everything is a slippery slope.
Thank you!
What about brothers and sisters...Dads are consenting. where does it end? And don't tell me that it's not okay, b/c incest people should have the same rights as everyone else.
I'll tell you that if it ticks you off
The issue that many people have with brothers and sisters is the problem with messing up the genes, and the taboo around it. Should we have a problem if they never plan to have children? I don't think we should, they are consenting adults.0 -
Marriage - Between a Man and Woman
Gay Marriage - between same sex. Thats why it is called Gay Marriage, not Marriage.0 -
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To all of you people quoting the Bible to celebrate your anti-homosexual viewpoints, read the rest of the book. The parts that tell us to love one another. To be compassionate. To not judge.
Maybe people do have "a choice." But only God has "the right to judge."
I'm a Christian. A TRUE CHRISTIAN. And yet I do not feel like the Bible taught me that homosexuals are to be condemned.
Stop only reading the parts that make you feel better about who you are, and pick up the parts that will teach you how to be a better a better Christian. And a better example of how we're supposed to be.
Stop spreading hate. You won't spread the Word until you do.
Romans 13:8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.
Matthew 5:43-45 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."
1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.
Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses.
Amen girlfriend. Also, the Bible says LOTS of crazy **** in the old testament. Read Leviticus. (I went to Catholic school for 9 years).
I'm pretty sure the Bible is more of a guideline on how to live your life as a good person, not a big list of things to hate.
And if you don't believe in God or the Bible, hey, that's your thing, I'm cool with it. I believe what I believe, you believe what you believe and we all live our lives.0 -
Where has it been proven that it's genetic?
From the evidence I have been able to gather, it is a case of nature and nurture.
http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1994-44971-001
Not to mention the close to 1.5k species that have displayed homosexual activity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
Animals also inbreed amongst other things, so that's a terrible example, I was just waiting for this to pop up.
And some eat their young. I love it when people bring animals into this discussion. Since when did animals develop the level of reason that humans have. And when did they establish themselves as an equal species?
Equal species? Do you think we are more important than bees or fish?0 -
My fear of governments recognizing this type of marriage which is completely fine in and of itself but I can see people wanting to push the line further. Let men and women marry under aged or marry their pets or marry their parents or something. Those people have rights just like straight people, bi people, gay/lesbian, and whatever else there is. So the envelope keeps getting pushed as we are constantly seeking fairness in all things. It's always changing and being modified which is nice that we have that opportunity but holy crap! It could go upside down.:noway:
Children are not consenting adults.
Pets are not consenting adults.
Not everything is a slippery slope.
Thank you!
What about brothers and sisters...Dads are consenting. where does it end? And don't tell me that it's not okay, b/c incest people should have the same rights as everyone else.
Straw man argument.
How is that straw man? A brother and sister should be able to marry by these rules because they are consenting adults after all. Are their desires less important than those of a homosexual?0 -
This is neither here nor there, but there is a lot of sexy women up in this thread.0
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From your quoted link:
"Yet, I also know that it has been shown that children who are deprived of the parenting of one gender have a very strong tendency toward emotional and/or psychological problems."
Source required. Even is this is the case, that means a homosexual couple can raise a child just as well as a single mother or father. Which, by the way, is pretty damn well.
"To be honest, I believe that if you look, that you will find that nearly all gay men, that were not victims of abuse, came from an unhealthy parenting situation themselves."
Seriously? With the majority of straight marriages that end in divorce today, would we not expect to see the majority of Americans "damaged" enough to be homosexual.
What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.Agree with the OP.
If straight couples didn't keep having gay babies the problem wouldn't exist. Its completely natural.
There are so many shades of grey in this life. Live and let live.
As for god, we all know about Lilith, Eve and Adam etc, so if its anyones fault, its god for making the partnership unequal rather than leaving it balanced
Where has it been proven that it's genetic?
From the evidence I have been able to gather, it is a case of nature and nurture.
http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1994-44971-001
"While genetic factors present some of the most persuasive evidence of a biological basis, it is doubtful that homosexuality is determined by purely biological factors. Rather, this uniquely human phenomenon is a consequence of a multifactorial developmental process in which psychosocial factors remain crucial."
Not to mention the close to 1.5k species that have displayed homosexual activity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animalsThe problem with the government is they have all seem to forgotten that whole separation of church and state, and they want to make the issue of gay marriage a religious one. It's not. Marriage is a legal agreement entered into by two consenting adults. If those adults want to attach religious significance to their marriage, that is their business. What goes on between two consenting adults is really none of the government's business as long as we pay our taxes. People (gay, straight, bi) get married for all sorts of reasons: tax breaks, benefits, LOVE, whatever. It's a damn shame that we live in a country that's all about "Freedom" but my brother can't marry his partner and my gay friends, who have been together longer than I have been alive, can't get married either.
So should we allow marriages to be run in accordance to Sharia Law? After all, two people entered into the agreement.
As long as the marriage breaks no other laws, such as domestic abuse, child abuse, etc. Sure, I so no reason two consenting adults shouldn't be allowed.I think if we dropped the marriage part and just called it union or something like that all the fuzz would go away
Marriage is pretty much a religious term between a man & a woman, so yeah I agree with you.
So...straight couples who get married at City Hall shouldn't be considered married...?
No, because that's still a marriage (man & woman), the term marriage originates from the bible & the bible says that being gay is an abomination to God, so I don't think it should be called marriage if you understand my reasoning?
Not really. Marriage was around way before the bible. Let's not bring religious sensitivities into this because, honestly, they don't belong here. Not to mention, not everyone here is the same religion or even religious for that matter.
Finally, in the US at least, attempting to force someone to do something or refrain from something on the grounds of religion is illegal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage
"Marriage (or wedlock) is a social union or legal contract between people that creates kinship."
The Bible begins at creation...interesting trick for there to be marriage before people...0 -
Marriage - Between a Man and Woman
Gay Marriage - between same sex. Thats why it is called Gay Marriage, not Marriage.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, but both ducks happen to wear tuxedos, I'm still going to call it a duck.0 -
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Where has it been proven that it's genetic?
From the evidence I have been able to gather, it is a case of nature and nurture.
http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1994-44971-001
Not to mention the close to 1.5k species that have displayed homosexual activity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
Animals also inbreed amongst other things, so that's a terrible example, I was just waiting for this to pop up.
And so do humans. The two are unrelated.
Homosexuality harms no one not involved.
Incest harms future generations.
Perfectly valid.
Saying that something is natural because animals do it is stupid if you're not going to condone everything that animals do as "natural".
Give me evidence close to what I provided you as to the harm of homosexual behavior. Please.0
This discussion has been closed.
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