Dr. Phil - Open Marriage

Symphony6

Here's adding something new to the convo..

My husband and I have been together for 15 years, married for 9, and always accepted the fact that neither one of us have been very good with monogamy in the past, so we never really expected it from each other. We're human, and we love each other regardless and even sometimes because of it. But then, we have a different view of marriage. So many feel that marriage is the joining of two people into one, but we believe in maintaining one's individuality throughout.

That being said, we were in the lifestyle for awhile... Honestly though, it was pretty difficult finding people who weren't either hiding their lifestyle from their SO or a little cray-cray if you know what I mean. Both are against our "rules". So, we have chosen to put that on hold for awhile. Not to sidetrack this debate, but how does one get all their needs satisfied from their partner when they are bisexual?

What works for some does not work for everyone because everyone is different. As long as you're not hurting anyone, live and let live, man.

hdroddy

I would never want an open marriage. I'm truly blessed in my own marriage in that my spouse and I are able to fulfill each other's emotional and physical needs and wants. It takes work, but it's worth it.

Having said that, if they are all in agreement it isn't my place to judge. The same Bible that discusses the wedding vows also clearly states that major Biblical figures such as Moses and Noah had mistresses and/or multiple wives, so even if you're a devout Christian, there's a lot of ambiguity there.

It is no more my business what they do in their bedroom (or bedrooms, as it were), than it is theirs what I do in mine. I don't care and I don't want to know about it.

I don't even have a problem with the porn. My spouse and I have watched a few together. I don't think one spouse go surfing for porn over the other's objections, but, again, if both partners agree, so what?

The one thing I would have to question about this whole arrangement - well, okay, the three things - are, number one, the fact that they don't want their child to know about the arrangement. I agree that a child doesn't need to know about their parents' sex lives. But the fact that they are hiding the relationship itself would seem to indicate some shame. Thing is, the kid is going to find out at some point, and then what? I mean, they just went on national TV, for Pete's sake. After lying to the child through omission for however long, how do they expect to be able to make it right? Number two - an eleven year old should not be watching porn. Period. And most especially with their parents. I've had all the discussions with my kid about sex ed. We communicate openly about sex, whether she should or not, possible repercussions, how the act itself works, etc. Not easy talks, but for the best for her. But there is no way on God's green earth that I would ever, ever watch sex with her. Of course she knows her parents had, and continue to have, sex. But we don't talk about the details. And, finally, third - no condoms? Big, big mistake.

If it is just adults involved and all agree - knock yourself out. I couldn't care less. I have no right and no inclination to judge. But when you have a kid and you're doing something you have to hide from them, you're making bad decisions.

Please stop with all the biblical stuff.

You all that take the bible so serious..............Why? It is nothing but a book of stories that is from a historical time. It is MAN MADE and MAN WRITTEN.

The bible pretty much doesn't mean anything to me and I have been happily married for 14 years now. I am spiritual in other ways, but I am definitely NOT religious.

I agree with you. Pardon me. I wasn't trying to be Biblical. I'm right there with you on the Bible being written by fallible humans. I'm not religious, either. I was trying to make the point that, even if you're using the Bible as your guide, as a few individuals implied, even it contradicts itself and leaves things unclear.

hdroddy

If you have contact with at least ONE other person, then you have formulated a relationship in one way or another. Even if it's fleeting, momentary, hell - I have a trust/respect relationship with every other driver around me every day. I trust they will not drive into me, and respect them enough that I will not run into them. But **** happens and sometimes you crash. Technically, each time I get behind the wheel, I am Married to the rules of the road and in a relationship with everyone around me.

Marriage is really about the way you both choose to relate to each other: Sexually, emotionally, financially, etc. "Open" really means that the rules that couple are following are outside the 'traditional' definition of marriage. The one that is better for you is the one in which you are the happiest in - that you can make work. Turmoil and crashes will follow either one; and FAILURE is all but guaranteed if you are not able to express yourself and be heard and understood in EITHER type of marriage.

Why does both marriage AND divorce both exist? Cause people are not perfect and while they may respect each other enough to make certain promises, time passes, they change, they take their eyes off the road sort of speak, and crash.

I've been married and divorced 2x. The first time -my bad. The second -her bad. Neither relationship was open, but covenants were not kept. Love in the first. Restraint from alcohol on the second. Even IF we would have had a open marriage, because those particular covenants were not kept, divorce was inevitable.

My ultimate idea of a 'perfect marriage': I want to grow old with a special woman who cherishes me, values me, knows my **** stinks, calls me on it, and stimulates me physically and mentally. On my death bed I want to look back at my 'marriage' and think "she was, is, and will always be the best part of me."

Don't agree with everything entirely, but very well said. Hope you find what you're looking for.

Sharyn913

This thread disgusts me to my very core. Why even get married than? Wives--- you honestly can say you have no issue with your husband staying out all night with another woman? NO. NO NONO!!! Come on... have some self respect for YOURSELF and for your relationship!!!!!

amymeenieminymo

The whole "why be married thing"...yea. That one irks me I am afraid. I am in the US. I had been with my husband for 6 years before we got married. We had 2 children at that point.

Why get married? Well first, we loved each other and care deeply about the other. Secondly marriage is a legal contract. It says that if something happens to him I make choices and if something happens to me he makes choices. It also says if something happens to either of us that the kids go to the other. It makes each of us tied to each other legally.

Marriage also means that we get to share things like health insurance. I had been with him for 6 years but couldn't get his dental insurance because we didn't have a piece of paper saying we were legally bound to each other. There is no "common law" marriage here, it doesn't apply.

I could be wrong, since it was nearly 4 years ago that I got married, but I don't remember anything in my vows about not having relations with other people (in either his or mine). I believe we promised to love, honor, and obey each other. That means VERY different things to different couples.

None of this is saying I am in an open marriage, as I am not, but it is to say that "marriage" is not religiously tied, in anyway, unless that is what the couple believes.

Didn't your vows include the "forsaking all others" part? That's the part that says you cannot be with anyone else. I'm just asking because this is usually included in standard vows unless you alter it or write your own. I've never heard of anyone using "the standard vows" and it not already including this part since, in the eyes of God, forsaking all others and fidelity is a very big part of a marriage vow.

FitLink

Why bother to get married then?

Thank you!! Marriage means you will love honor and sleep with that one person the rest of your life.. If you dont get the commitement than dont get married! Ugh this world we live in these days I dont get it.. The idea of my husband touching and being inside another woman makes my skin crawl no i dont want you porking other woman than coming home to me no thanks..

There's nothing in the vow of marriage about sleeping with only one person. It's only part of the vow of marriage if that's the commitment you make to one another. Marriage is about commitment to each other that runs much greater than sex. Not to mention a legal commitment. So there's plenty of reason to marry someone even if both parties agree that they want to be intimate with other people.

And lets not pretend like polygamy is something new. Back in biblical times, it was common for men to have multiple wives. So it's not exactly new or shocking.

Like I said in my other post, it's certainly something that's not for most people (myself included), but as long as all people involved are consenting, I don't think their lifestyle is any less valid than mine.

From what I understand the "Vow" is simply the part you say "In front of God and these witnesses". Quick Google on Traditional vows finds these:

"Forsaking all others, till death do us part."
or
"faithfully keep to her/him alone, so long as you both shall live?"
or
"and to that I pledge you my faithfulness. "
or
"and I promise to love you, and to be faithful to you as long as we both shall live."

Obviously you don't have to have these specific statements in your vows. But not sleeping with others is exactly what these say. Personally I've never been to a wedding, including one in a judges chamber, where some type of "Forsaking all others" was not in the vow. Yeah, you don't sign a paper with these words on it, but the word "swear" indicates a promise.

Marriage is a legal contract and is licensed by the state. There is no necessity of a god or vowing to never have sex with anyone else. I get that YOU see a "no sex" clause in the vows you list, but I don't believe fidelity necessarily means that. It simply means you won't break the other person's trust. If everyone agrees to something, no trust is broken. Just because you don't want to do something doesn't mean someone else shouldn't. Whatever doesn't harm the person or property of a non-consenting other is NOYB.

paigemarie93

An open marriage means the two involved really aren't committed to each other.

Same wavelength.

Binary thinking. Why can't I be deeply committed to more than one person? That's like saying I can only love one of my kids.

That's completely different.

tilliesmom9

This thread disgusts me to my very core. Why even get married than? Wives--- you honestly can say you have no issue with your husband staying out all night with another woman? NO. NO NONO!!! Come on... have some self respect for YOURSELF and for your relationship!!!!!

If he is staying out all night with another woman I am there with him. Soooo no I don't mind. We respect each other very much. I don't expect you to understand this. I am my own moral compass. No shame here! Just love and fun!

FitLink

I think something's broken inside you if you can't commit completely to one person and have that be enough. Either you're with the wrong person or you have insecurities that you have to fill with promiscuity and outside attention.

Give me a happy, peaceful home with the person I love, someday maybe kids, my rescued doggies, and I will be happy.

I do want a bigger kitchen though.

Odd. I think something's broken inside you if you believe you have the right to decide how other people live. What makes you happy needn't make me happy for me to not be "broken."

nanodot

The whole "why be married thing"...yea. That one irks me I am afraid. I am in the US. I had been with my husband for 6 years before we got married. We had 2 children at that point.

Why get married? Well first, we loved each other and care deeply about the other. Secondly marriage is a legal contract. It says that if something happens to him I make choices and if something happens to me he makes choices. It also says if something happens to either of us that the kids go to the other. It makes each of us tied to each other legally.

Marriage also means that we get to share things like health insurance. I had been with him for 6 years but couldn't get his dental insurance because we didn't have a piece of paper saying we were legally bound to each other. There is no "common law" marriage here, it doesn't apply.

I could be wrong, since it was nearly 4 years ago that I got married, but I don't remember anything in my vows about not having relations with other people (in either his or mine). I believe we promised to love, honor, and obey each other. That means VERY different things to different couples.

None of this is saying I am in an open marriage, as I am not, but it is to say that "marriage" is not religiously tied, in anyway, unless that is what the couple believes.

Didn't your vows include the "forsaking all others" part? That's the part that says you cannot be with anyone else. I'm just asking because this is usually included in standard vows unless you alter it or write your own. I've never heard of anyone using "the standard vows" and it not already including this part since, in the eyes of God, forsaking all others and fidelity is a very big part of a marriage vow.

I understand your point, but our vows will not include a vow of fidelity. I think we are planning to "Love, Honor, and Cherish." We are having a secular ceremony. I am also thinking that vows can be set aside if both parties wholeheartedly agree to; and I don't consider god to be a literal participant in the vows, because I'm not religious. This stuff is between people and their own conscience.

nanodot

An open marriage means the two involved really aren't committed to each other.

Same wavelength.

Binary thinking. Why can't I be deeply committed to more than one person? That's like saying I can only love one of my kids.

That's completely different.

Why?

BodyRockerVT

The whole "why be married thing"...yea. That one irks me I am afraid. I am in the US. I had been with my husband for 6 years before we got married. We had 2 children at that point.

Why get married? Well first, we loved each other and care deeply about the other. Secondly marriage is a legal contract. It says that if something happens to him I make choices and if something happens to me he makes choices. It also says if something happens to either of us that the kids go to the other. It makes each of us tied to each other legally.

Marriage also means that we get to share things like health insurance. I had been with him for 6 years but couldn't get his dental insurance because we didn't have a piece of paper saying we were legally bound to each other. There is no "common law" marriage here, it doesn't apply.

I could be wrong, since it was nearly 4 years ago that I got married, but I don't remember anything in my vows about not having relations with other people (in either his or mine). I believe we promised to love, honor, and obey each other. That means VERY different things to different couples.

None of this is saying I am in an open marriage, as I am not, but it is to say that "marriage" is not religiously tied, in anyway, unless that is what the couple believes.

Didn't your vows include the "forsaking all others" part? That's the part that says you cannot be with anyone else. I'm just asking because this is usually included in standard vows unless you alter it or write your own. I've never heard of anyone using "the standard vows" and it not already including this part since, in the eyes of God, forsaking all others and fidelity is a very big part of a marriage vow.

Nope...wasn't in there. We were married by a JoP in our living room. She used the standard vows. No god in our marriage..of the Bible or otherwise so what happens in "god's eyes" doesn't matter.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

I have friends in this situation and have known people over the years who have tried it to breathe life into their marriage or do this for a last chance type of thing. Every couple I've known that has tried it has run into problems - jealousy, bickering, divorce in the end, or they leave their current partner for someone they meet and fall in love with. Families suffer. Boundaries become blurred and secrets are kept.

I'm not saying it doesn't work for some people who are truly open about it and ok with it, but I would think that percentage of people would be in the minority. I don't think we are built that way as a majority.

I am ok with whatever works for consenting adults but its not for me and I know my husband wouldn't go for it.

I personally think that in the realm of relationships that if a couple tries the open relationship to "breathe new life" into the marriage or for a last chance type of thing, the relationship is already dead.

For open marriage (relationship) to work, it is something that is discussed when first meeting............not years into the relationship.

I see why those relationships headed down the road they went.

FitLink

I need to stop reading posts like this one. It always makes me deeply sad that so many people are "ok with" or think it's "fine if it works for them". There seems to be no higher standard for anyone as long as people are "happy". There's more to life than being happy, and in my opinion, it cheapens the human experience to spend all of life only seeking after happiness.

What "more?" What "more" is there to life than being happy? Is there some higher good to being miserable?

FitLink

If your relationship is about nothing but the sexual aspect then go for it, I honestly don't see how 2 people could "love" each other enough to marry them and then go off and have sex with another, do they "love" them too, or is it purely for enjoyment!?

Its' purely for enjoyment. Why is this a problem????

hdroddy

I would never want an open marriage. I'm truly blessed in my own marriage in that my spouse and I are able to fulfill each other's emotional and physical needs and wants. It takes work, but it's worth it.

Having said that, if they are all in agreement it isn't my place to judge. The same Bible that discusses the wedding vows also clearly states that major Biblical figures such as Moses and Noah had mistresses and/or multiple wives, so even if you're a devout Christian, there's a lot of ambiguity there.

It is no more my business what they do in their bedroom (or bedrooms, as it were), than it is theirs what I do in mine. I don't care and I don't want to know about it.

I don't even have a problem with the porn. My spouse and I have watched a few together. I don't think one spouse go surfing for porn over the other's objections, but, again, if both partners agree, so what?

The one thing I would have to question about this whole arrangement - well, okay, the three things - are, number one, the fact that they don't want their child to know about the arrangement. I agree that a child doesn't need to know about their parents' sex lives. But the fact that they are hiding the relationship itself would seem to indicate some shame. Thing is, the kid is going to find out at some point, and then what? I mean, they just went on national TV, for Pete's sake. After lying to the child through omission for however long, how do they expect to be able to make it right? Number two - an eleven year old should not be watching porn. Period. And most especially with their parents. I've had all the discussions with my kid about sex ed. We communicate openly about sex, whether she should or not, possible repercussions, how the act itself works, etc. Not easy talks, but for the best for her. But there is no way on God's green earth that I would ever, ever watch sex with her. Of course she knows her parents had, and continue to have, sex. But we don't talk about the details. And, finally, third - no condoms? Big, big mistake.

If it is just adults involved and all agree - knock yourself out. I couldn't care less. I have no right and no inclination to judge. But when you have a kid and you're doing something you have to hide from them, you're making bad decisions.

Please stop with all the biblical stuff.

You all that take the bible so serious..............Why? It is nothing but a book of stories that is from a historical time. It is MAN MADE and MAN WRITTEN.

The bible pretty much doesn't mean anything to me and I have been happily married for 14 years now. I am spiritual in other ways, but I am definitely NOT religious.

I agree with you. Pardon me. I wasn't trying to be Biblical. I'm right there with you on the Bible being written by fallible humans. I'm not religious, either. I was trying to make the point that, even if you're using the Bible as your guide, as a few individuals implied, even it contradicts itself and leaves things unclear.

Having said that, though - no matter how you or I feel, the Bible means a lot to some people, and they are entitled to hold onto that. They shouldn't shove it down our throats, but we shouldn't take it personally when they bring it into a discussion, either. Some people need/want religion. The structure and ceremony give them comfort. No harm in it. Fanaticism is the problem, not belief. I myself love God and Jesus. I just don't believe in organized religion. Don't have a problem with those who do.

paigemarie93

An open marriage means the two involved really aren't committed to each other.

Same wavelength.

Binary thinking. Why can't I be deeply committed to more than one person? That's like saying I can only love one of my kids.

That's completely different.

Why?

Love between you & your spouse is different to the love you share with your children, do you really need me to spell out why, to you?

Wileyjoe

People with open marriages should have their licenses revoked. :flup:

FitLink

My husband's dad had an "open marriage" which resulted in a child from the woman he had wife swapped. For years, this kid has thought his biological dad was the man his mom was married to before she eventually married my father-in-law. The kid is now 22, he has always looked like my husband and had questions about all of that growing up. He just recently learned that, as he put it, he's the product of an "foursome." Something like this can cause severe therapy issues in the kids and I will add, some of these kids choose drugs and alcohol as their only means of therapy. Destructive. That's great if some couples want to mix it up in their marriage, but bringing children into it, not such a good idea. Sometimes consenting adults are too damn selfish and stupid to know any better.

Again, presumptive parentage is the law in most jurisdictions in the US. His father IS, legally, the person his mom was married to when he was born.

fbmandy55

This thread disgusts me to my very core. Why even get married than? Wives--- you honestly can say you have no issue with your husband staying out all night with another woman? NO. NO NONO!!! Come on... have some self respect for YOURSELF and for your relationship!!!!!

Close-minded, ignorant people disgust me.