You Can Gain Muscle On A Calorie Deficit!!
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So why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from its "father"? The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake.
My point is (to use your analogy) that fat cells are like having gas in the engine so building (be it babies or muscles) while on a caloric deficit does not violate any scientific law.I have known women who were overweight and were put on a weight loss diet (calorie deficit) during their pregnancy. They lost a substantial amount of weight while the fetus continued to grow to a healthy weight.
So the mother was on a calorie deficit and lost weight? What's your point? LOL. A portion of a pregnant mother's calories obviously go to the baby and the baby is going to grow. You didn't really prove anything there, nice try though.
Does this help you understand or do you need further clarification?
The fat cells comment wasn't mine. I'm saying the baby is getting the calories it needs to grow from it's mother. The calories a fetus needs is only a small fraction of the mother's in-take.
LOL, you're trolling right? LMAO0 -
First I never said the words massive muscle growth!! It wasnt directed at anyone but dont worry. I wouldnt take any comments about my previous appearance as a personal attack etc.Also I understand what you guys are saying about different, lighting, poses, angles camera's etc. can make a person look larger etc. But show me just one pic. out of the dozen or so pics I have posted that was taken in an earlier month that the camera, lighting, pose. angle etc. made me look larger than any pic. that was taken at a later date. Just one!!
No one ???
I believe that was originally directed at me. I had responded saying I didn't want to try to speak to the specifics of your pictures because I thought it would come off as a personal attack. I do think you look substantially fitter in your later pictures, but I don't think that muscle growth you were speaking about is large enough to be considered massive muscle growth. I think it looks bigger than it actually is because there's so much (74 lbs) less of you.
But if you cant see the difference between these 2 pics taken in May and Oct. either you need to get your eyes checked or I do. :bigsmile: Its funny how people give me and the guys who helped me credit for being able to make a such a transformation but doubt that myelf, the guys who helped me and my Dr. know how to properly read a tape measure.
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I missed where the op mentions massive
I already responded to this. In the first thread mention of 10 lbs of muscle to increase arms by 1 inch, and that was just in one arm. I consider that to be massive growth.
Edit to respond to Pike: I had mentioned a couple of things that could cause your muscles to appear larger. But with a tape measure I don't recall you posting exact measurements. All I recall is the comparison of your hand wrapping around your forearm and the tightness of your old clothes around your upper body. As for needing my eyes checked. I work in front of a computer for a living so it's possible
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I missed where the op mentions massive
I already responded to this. In the first thread mention of 10 lbs of muscle to increase arms by 1 inch, and that was just in one arm. I consider that to be massive growth.
How did he do that while on a deficit? Are you not believing the measurements or not believing he was on a deficit at the time?0 -
I dont consider 10lbs of added muscle as massive for an over weight newbie.0
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How did he do that while on a deficit? Are you not believing the measurements or not believing he was on a deficit at the time?
Please read some of my previous posts as I've been repeating this a lot. There are reasons other than muscle mass increase (water retention, glycogen are the two ones I'm familiar with) that the size of one's arms might increase. I also think saying 10lbs per inch for everybody is an over-generalization. Further the measurment techniques were imprecise (I did mention not remembering a reference to specific tape measurements already as well). I think a combination of those things could explain the scenario.
And that has been our fundamental disagreement from the beginning. Regardless of who's right, you're doing a fantastic job and I hope you stick with it. Maybe next time take more measurements though, it's a lot easier to scroll through that then a whole mess of pictures =P.I dont consider 10lbs of added muscle as massive for an over weight newbie.0 -
I dont consider 10lbs of added muscle as massive for an over weight newbie.
10lbs / 250lbs = 0.04% increase. MASSIVE! :drinker:0 -
My point is that building muscle on a caloric deficit is scientifically possible (not ideal). Overweight people who lift tend not to have lifted for a long time (if ever) so these aren't really extreme cases. No one is suggesting that an experienced, normal weight lifter should try to gain mass while eating at a deficit.Luckily the OP wasn't pregnant while trying to gain muscle on a deficit then.
Fair point, but that heavily glosses over the fact that a lot of other stuff is going on too. If you are not taking in enough to survive, your body is forced to pillage energy stores it has set aside. More of these stores can be taken from a larger person, hence them being able to safely handle larger deficits, but ultimately as your deficit gets bigger your body will pillage lean mass as well.
If your body is in a deficit, and burning fat and muscle for energy (obviously less muscle if you're eating right and working out), why would it waste some of that energy to build new muscle? In extreme cases (completely new lifter, very obese person with tons of fat stores, lifter coming off a long vacation) your body is *forced to grow new mass based on the new demands being placed on it or the relative abundance of stored energy in the person's body fat. Those gains won't be substantial though, as it's more efficient to condition the muscles and make them stronger via the things already listed previously.
Also, I think that the OP has clearly gained muscles in his arms, shoulders, and chest. His musculature was poorly developed in the earlier photos and was not simply hiding under the fat.0 -
By 'overweight' I thought it was assumed that I meant fat or lard *kitten* without having to sound mean, and yes, stressing your muscles is how you increase testosterone, so I would imagine powerlifters have a lot of it. I was referring to my own situation a year ago eating boston creams and playing video games.I have known women who were overweight and were put on a weight loss diet (calorie deficit) during their pregnancy. They lost a substantial amount of weight while the fetus continued to grow to a healthy weight. Energy is stored in our fat cells, this is why growth, including muscular growth, is possible even while a person is losing weight. This does not violate the law of thermodynamics.
There's also a reason prenatal suggestions are all very careful about the degree of calorie restriction, as it can cause problems for the fetus.
Your body prioritizes energy expenditure.
Reproduction comes before muscle growth.
Your hormones control how the energy and nutrients are used. As soon as you become pregnant your estrogen starts taking over. That's why steroids can make you gain significant size even on a large deficit, because you are artificially introducing more testosterone, but nobody wants to see a zit back in the locker room. That's nasty.
Also, if you are really overweight, testosterone goes down and estrogen goes up in men. That's how we get man boobs.
Bodybuilders still eat excess calories while on steroids to gain mass, steroids alone do not inhibit hypertrophy. If your diet and programming are **** even while on steroids you're not going to gain much. The steroids may help reduce catabolism while on a cut. I'll out myself here... I'm a TRT patient and take steroids weekly. I'm also on a calorie deficit, my mass has not increased. My strength has increased gradually over time but no mass benefit.
Estrogen goes up in the presence of high bodyfat, not just being overweight. Have you see a pro powerlifter lately? Those dudes are typically very overweight and I guarantee you there's no shortage of T in that bunch.0 -
No...if you have an answer i'd like to hear it.
So why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from its "father"? The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake.
My point is (to use your analogy) that fat cells are like having gas in the engine so building (be it babies or muscles) while on a caloric deficit does not violate any scientific law.I have known women who were overweight and were put on a weight loss diet (calorie deficit) during their pregnancy. They lost a substantial amount of weight while the fetus continued to grow to a healthy weight.
So the mother was on a calorie deficit and lost weight? What's your point? LOL. A portion of a pregnant mother's calories obviously go to the baby and the baby is going to grow. You didn't really prove anything there, nice try though.
Does this help you understand or do you need further clarification?
The fat cells comment wasn't mine. I'm saying the baby is getting the calories it needs to grow from it's mother. The calories a fetus needs is only a small fraction of the mother's in-take.
LOL, you're trolling right? LMAO0 -
10lbs / 250lbs = 0.04% increase. MASSIVE! :drinker:
10 lbs of muscle gain means a total of 84 lbs of fat lost in a year.
That means if you only gained 10 lbs in the one arm, that you had a 800 calorie deficit per day for the entire year. Your other arm increases that to a 900 calorie deficit. Add in chest, legs, and back, and that adds up pretty darn quick.
I think 10 lbs in a year is a tremendously high amount while cutting, but I'm more likely to believe that someone gained 10lbs overall when coming from an extremely heavy weight AND being a new lifter than 10lbs in just one arm.0 -
No...if you have an answer i'd like to hear it.So why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from its "father"? The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake.
LOL, you're trolling right? LMAO
Why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from it's father? "The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake." Say what? LOL, try that again in Engrish.0 -
From what I read on other message boards that you will gain 1 inch in both your arms for every 10lbs of lean muscle you gain. (not 10lbs for each arm) I never could wrap my mind around this statement because people have different genetics and different genetic potential etc. But since I have never heard or read anything to dispute this, its the best I got.10lbs / 250lbs = 0.04% increase. MASSIVE! :drinker:
10 lbs of muscle gain means a total of 84 lbs of fat lost in a year.
That means if you only gained 10 lbs in the one arm, that you had a 800 calorie deficit per day for the entire year. Your other arm increases that to a 900 calorie deficit. Add in chest, legs, and back, and that adds up pretty darn quick.
I think 10 lbs in a year is a tremendously high amount while cutting, but I'm more likely to believe that someone gained 10lbs overall when coming from an extremely heavy weight AND being a new lifter than 10lbs in just one arm.
But I do view that statement as a ""cookie cutter"" statement0 -
10lbs / 250lbs = 0.04% increase. MASSIVE! :drinker:
10 lbs of muscle gain means a total of 84 lbs of fat lost in a year.
That means if you only gained 10 lbs in the one arm, that you had a 800 calorie deficit per day for the entire year. Your other arm increases that to a 900 calorie deficit. Add in chest, legs, and back, and that adds up pretty darn quick.
I think 10 lbs in a year is a tremendously high amount while cutting, but I'm more likely to believe that someone gained 10lbs overall when coming from an extremely heavy weight AND being a new lifter than 10lbs in just one arm.
10lbs in one arm? What? :laugh:0 -
You said:
"I'm saying the baby is getting the calories it needs to grow from it's mother. The calories a fetus needs is only a small fraction of the mother's in-take."
And I responded:
"So why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from its "father"? The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake."
I simply copied what you wrote but substituted fetus for muscle and mother for father for you to consider why the same argument could not apply in both circumstances. (I also corrected your grammatical errors - "It's" is the contraction for "it is" by the way).[quote
No...if you have an answer i'd like to hear it.So why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from its "father"? The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake.
LOL, you're trolling right? LMAO
Why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from it's father? "The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake." Say what? LOL, try that again in Engrish.
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You would be surprised what an MRI can show. It just so happens that I read dr. Suess and drank a whole lot of beer with an MRI tech. Just wanted to throw that out there again.0
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[/quote]You said:
"I'm saying the baby is getting the calories it needs to grow from it's mother. The calories a fetus needs is only a small fraction of the mother's in-take."
And I responded:
"So why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from its "father"? The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake."
I simply copied what you wrote but substituted fetus for muscle and mother for father for you to consider why the same argument could not apply in both circumstances. (I also corrected your grammatical errors - "It's" is the contraction for "it is" by the way).[quote
No...if you have an answer i'd like to hear it.So why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from its "father"? The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake.
LOL, you're trolling right? LMAO
Why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from it's father? "The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake." Say what? LOL, try that again in Engrish.
You're just plain ole' silly now. LOL :laugh:0 -
As silly as thinking the OP claimed he gained 10lbs of muscle in 1 arm? :bigsmile:0
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You said:
"I'm saying the baby is getting the calories it needs to grow from it's mother. The calories a fetus needs is only a small fraction of the mother's in-take."
And I responded:
"So why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from its "father"? The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake."
I simply copied what you wrote but substituted fetus for muscle and mother for father for you to consider why the same argument could not apply in both circumstances. (I also corrected your grammatical errors - "It's" is the contraction for "it is" by the way).[quote
No...if you have an answer i'd like to hear it.So why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from its "father"? The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake.
LOL, you're trolling right? LMAO
Why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from it's father? "The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake." Say what? LOL, try that again in Engrish.
You're just plain ole' silly now. LOL :laugh:
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That went right over your head didn't it?
Well don't look at me. My 3rd rate, cracker jack education didn't include logic. I mean it's not like I speak latin on a daily basis or anything, sed latine loqui possum satis bene. Oh wait. Never mind.0 -
That went right over your head didn't it?You said:
"I'm saying the baby is getting the calories it needs to grow from it's mother. The calories a fetus needs is only a small fraction of the mother's in-take."
And I responded:
"So why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from its "father"? The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake."
I simply copied what you wrote but substituted fetus for muscle and mother for father for you to consider why the same argument could not apply in both circumstances. (I also corrected your grammatical errors - "It's" is the contraction for "it is" by the way).[quote
No...if you have an answer i'd like to hear it.So why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from its "father"? The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake.
LOL, you're trolling right? LMAO
Why can't a muscle get the calories it needs to grow from it's father? "The calories that the muscle needs is only a small fraction of the father's intake." Say what? LOL, try that again in Engrish.
You're just plain ole' silly now. LOL :laugh:
Well don't look at me. My 3rd rate, cracker jack education didn't include logic. I mean it's not like I speak latin on a daily basis or anything, sed latine loqui possum satis bene. Oh wait. Never mind.
[/quote]
Guess so, please explain oh educated one.0
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