You Can Gain Muscle On A Calorie Deficit!!

Ripken818836701

I wanted to start this thread because of the "" Muscle Does Not Weigh More Than Fat" thread. Reading thru it I read numerous posts that claimed that you cannot gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. Yes you can!! Please do not let these misguided comments stop you from implementing some type of lifting program while you are on your journey for a new body!! Weight training while dieting is very important because if you dont about 22% of your total weight loss will be Lean Muscle! Most people who do not lift while dieting are not happy with their body even after they reached or even surpassed their goals.

dlwyatt82

There's quite a difference between putting on new lean muscle and just strengthening / maintaining what you already have. It takes calories to "bulk up".

heybales

Right on.

Generally the exceptions are mentioned after the fact, and regarding the totally wrong audience.

The best way to give the exceptions for the general audience here on MFP is:

If you are already trim and fit, you'll have a very difficult time building muscle at a calorie deficit.

And research to back it up.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/447514-athletes-can-gain-muscle-while-losing-fat-on-deficit-diet

Ripken818836701

There's quite a difference between putting on new lean muscle and just strengthening / maintaining what you already have. It takes calories to "bulk up".

You can add muscle aswell. The only exception is when you reach a very low BF%

twinmom01

There's quite a difference between putting on new lean muscle and just strengthening / maintaining what you already have. It takes calories to "bulk up".

I would say this is dependant on if you are a man or a women...and what your diet looks like...a man is going to be able to "gain" muscle more so than a woman due to the amount of testosterone - also diet...are you eating a lot of protien and good amino acids to help your muscles strengthen, build and repair.

I would say it possible to strengthen and maybe even build up your muscles a bit while eating a calorie deficit - especially those that have a fair amount of body fat to burn through...those looking for the "quick fix" on the scale will be disappointed because the scale is only going to slowly, slowly inch downward...

I have been eating at a calorie deficit for the past year all while exercising with strength training exercises - the measurements of my arm haven't changed...but whereas a year ago they were a flabby mess - now when i flex you can see a definition and actually feel the muscle (all nice and hard) - so if I wasn't bulking up the muscle a little bit my overall measurment should have gone down since fat takes up a greater volume of muscle...

heybales

There's quite a difference between putting on new lean muscle and just strengthening / maintaining what you already have. It takes calories to "bulk up".

Within your body, it is not a sum net gain or loss.

If the eaten protein can be used for building muscle, it will be.
If it isn't, it'll be burned as amino acids or stored as fat more likely.
The energy your body is needing in deficit is already coming from fat stores (and carbs, and muscle if doing it all wrong). All you are doing is sending protein to the muscle instead of conversion to the fat for storage.

You can build new lean muscle on a deficit.

Saruman_w

There's quite a difference between putting on new lean muscle and just strengthening / maintaining what you already have. It takes calories to "bulk up".

You can add muscle aswell. The only exception is when you reach a very low BF%

Well then that's the exception that applies to me. I reached too low of a BF% before I realized that what I was doing was making me lose too much lean mass. So now I have no choice but to be in a calorie surplus to correct that.

azwildcatfan94

I agree with the OP, you can gain muscle on a calorie deficit. HOWEVER, no matter who you are, you probably aren't going to gain pounds and pounds of muscle. Especially after one day of weight lifting. There are plenty of reasons for a short term weight gain while following your calorie deficit:
* Stress
* Water/fluid retention (for whatever reason)
* Past greater than average weight loss (your body doesn't drop the fat in a nice linear fashion, there are spikes and dips)
* Medical conditions

I'm sure people can add more. But, if you are active and lifting to the point where your body needs more muscle, it will build it. Over time, if you're taking your measurements, you will see this. You will also see an increase in the density of the muscle you have because for those of us obese folks, fat actually can form between muscle tissues. That said, I doubt the average person on a calorie deficit who is doing weight lifting will see more than a 5 to 10 pound muscle over a period of about a year.

taso42

You can gain strength in a calorie deficit. Gaining muscle is pretty rare, and is limited to beginners to weight lifting, and those coming back after a long break (muscle memory). For the rest of us, we strength train during deficit to maintain lean mass and maintain or increase strength.

maxmariesfo

I wanted to start this thread because of the "" Muscle Does Not Weigh More Than Fat" thread. Reading thru it I read numerous posts that claimed that you cannot gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. Yes you can!! Please do not let these misguided comments stop you from implementing some type of lifting program while you are on your journey for a new body!! Weight training while dieting is very important because if you dont about 22% of your total weight loss will be Lean Muscle! Most people who do not lift while dieting are not happy with their body even after they reached or even surpassed their goals.

I just watched a fantastic PBS program about this. Dr. Amen is teaching about improving brain function. One of the scary things he said was that when we are obese, our brain actually gets smaller. Yikes! He is one of those "calorie reductionists" - as reducing calories allows for the pancreas to produce more metabolic enzymes - which benefit our physical bodies.

In a nutshell, our pancreas creates two kinds of enzymes, metabolic and digestive. Our overall diets are so bad 90% of our pancreatic function is creating digestive enxymes. And our pancreas is three times the size of a cows! Reducing our caloric intake allows for more metabolic enzymes.

So here's this balding little white haired old dude - with a chest Brad Pitt WISHES he had - doing his 4th set of pull ups with 20 pounds around his waist.

This is a CBS interview where the talks about the brain and food.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CPPEqJkYqc&feature=fvsr

izerop

I agree to some extent... I mean you can, if you are so genetically inclined... I would say for the general population, it would be exceedingly difficult. My goal, since reading BFFM, is to minimize LBM loss by adding strength training to my workouts. Also I create a calorie deficit by exercise, not by a huge reduction in calorie intake. My LBM was high to start out with, but I have since reduced my LBM loss and increase my body fat loss, however my LBM still declines slightly.

In short, no one has the same body, and I do believe some people can gain muscle while under a calorie deficit, just not everyone.

Ripken818836701

Here are pics of me over the past year while losing 74 lbs and gaining plenty of lean muscle. I was what I would call " Skinny Fat" I had very little lean muscle before I started to work out. If I didnt lift weights while dieting I wouldnt be were I am today. And im 42 years old!

March-2011 (- 10/12lbs)


May-2011



Aug-2011


Oct-2011


Jan-2012


Present

[/quote]

mustgetmuscles1

I agree with the OP. "Calorie Deficit" is a misleading phrase. You are eating less than your body consumes BUT your body is getting the remainder from stored fat or muscle. Take the amount you eat AND the amount of stored fat you burn=no deficit.

Your body needs a certain amount of calories to maintain, for activity AND to make new muscles. You can eat in a calorie deficit but as long as you are maintaining healthy levels of protein, carbs and fats and the deficit is not too large ( causing your body to burn existing muscle) your body will find the extra it needs from storage. It will never be a straight conversion from fat to muscle and wont be as efficient as eating in a slight surplus but it is doable.

kateroot

Huge difference between maintaining muscle mass and gaining muscle mass.. dude, you're wrong. For the vast majority of people, muscle mass gains will not occur without a calorie surplus and a lot of very hard work.

Ripken818836701

Huge difference between maintaining muscle mass and gaining muscle mass.. dude, you're wrong. For the vast majority of people, muscle mass gains will not occur without a calorie surplus and a lot of very hard work.

dudett, your wrong, please look at the pics I just posted 2 posts above.

peacemongernc

I wanted to start this thread because of the "" Muscle Does Not Weigh More Than Fat" thread. Reading thru it I read numerous posts that claimed that you cannot gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. Yes you can!! Please do not let these misguided comments stop you from implementing some type of lifting program while you are on your journey for a new body!! Weight training while dieting is very important because if you dont about 22% of your total weight loss will be Lean Muscle! Most people who do not lift while dieting are not happy with their body even after they reached or even surpassed their goals.

Hey! Maybe you can help me figure something out... math problem. 9 weeks ago I weight 304 and I was 48.5% body fat. Today I weighed 280.5 and I'm 40.8% body fat. I tried to ways to figure out how much fat I lost and how much muscle I gained and I don't know which is right. First I tried averaging 304 and 280.5 (292.25) and then taking 7.7% of that, which is 22.5 pounds of fat lost. Then I tried taking 48.5% of 304 (147.44) and 40.8% of 280.5 (114.44) and subtracting those two numbers, which is 33 pounds of fat lost.

The first one would be pretty close to maintaining muscle and just losing fat. But the second one would mean I had gained almost 10 pounds of muscle and lost 33 pounds of fat. Based on the fact that my clothes are fitting me more like when I weighed in the low 270s a couple of years ago when I wasn't working out much, and based on the fact that my muscles are really getting big, I'm thinking the 33 pounds of fat lost is more accurate. But I'm no good at math.

If the second one is true, you can totally gain muscle on a calorie deficit. I just did.

Anyone know how to figure this out?

Shannon

EbbySoo

Did you get a DEXA or body pod done before you leaned out? It doesn't look like you gained very much muscle at all, but retained your muscle and lost the fat. /shrug. FWIW, IMO You weren't skinny fat in the beginning, you had a good base underneath, you were just overweight, simple as that. As you trained the muscle you probably added some density to it, retained it, gaining definition around the muscle from losing fat, but you certainly don't look like you gained very much LM.

Congrats on your hardwork though, you look great.

19danno77

Opinion battles are always fun, but here goes in support of the OP. You're not in true caloric deficit from a global standpoint IF you have adipose tissue storing excess bodyfat. That total comes from calories harvested from reserves and those that you put in your mouth. Your body can only access so much of that reserve in any given day because it's in a bank so to speak. That weekly amount is given to be about 2 lbs give or take depending on your biology and the level of your bodyfat...it's related to the surface area of blood vessels and the capacity of the blood to access the network of fat tissue...the less fat you have the smaller that surface area is and the slower that maximum harvest rate can be. Those calories will build muscle using your protein intake and adipose tissue cataboloized to fuel other processes and carbohydrate to fuel brain activities and other cardiovascular functions. If what you put in your mouth is too low for adipose harvesting to completely balance the body's activities than NO you may not build muscle...but that caloric level suggested by MFP is programmed to NOT go that low...that's why it warns you to eat more if you complete a diary day dramatically under your guidelines.

About muscles: if you push your body beyond its capabilities, up to a certain genetic potential (yours), it will build beyond that level in anticipation of the next attack being worse. "Beyond capabilities" is subjective and by that I mean you exercise to muscular failure and then give the muscles adequate rest...look into a book by Dr. Ellington Darden at your local library called "The New High Intensity Training." What's missing in most of our routines is number 1: sufficient sleep each night and rest between exercise sessions and number 2: proper intensity, as in TO FAILURE...as in you can't complete the last rep. The lion fights once a week or so then sleeps and gets waited on by the brood but is the strongest animal in the wild. Ever see a lion on a treadmill? Doing push-ups between fights? How about 4 sets of an exercise? We're animals too and our muscles need to be proven a point and that point is they're not big enough and you can only do that by making them fail...then a week of rest so they can come back ~5% stronger. You shouldn't be working out for strength more than 15-30 minutes a week. This is a safe way to exercise on nautilus machines when slow, 5-10 second motions are used for each rep without jerking...in fact, by doing fewer sets your joints will last longer, too.

The gender complaint is also bunk...women's body's are no thermodynamic perpetual motion machines, although I think they're craftier at survival so fat may be harder to burn for many ladies since women carry an unbalanced burden on the perpetuation of our species--not sexist here, just saying that if a population can keep one man alive, he can perpetuate a species as long as many women are also around. Men are in a way disposable...it's not a good thing to be able to trim down quickly...thinner is closer to death if the food supply disappears. Women can also use the HIT workout routine without fear of bulking up because the hormones aren't there to build lots of muscle...but the benefits are there for the skeleton and connective tissue so ladies, too, should be working the muscles periodically to failure...it hurts to work out this way, but it's a burn and it's easier to get to the gym and pour yourself on the floor once every 8 days than get there 4-5 times a week and feel worn out, defeated and intimidated by the grunting fools that spend all day there posing in the mirror. Nobody needs to eat extra protein to build muscle either...need proof? Submit your urine to a lab for amino analysis. We're excreting excess every day...probably only need 30-90 grams a day depending on your size and building goals. For what it's worth...

rachmaree

Did you get a DEXA or body pod done before you leaned out? It doesn't look like you gained very much muscle at all, but retained your muscle and lost the fat. /shrug. FWIW, IMO You weren't skinny fat in the beginning, you had a good base underneath, you were just overweight, simple as that. As you trained the muscle you probably added some density to it, retained it, gaining definition around the muscle from losing fat, but you certainly don't look like you gained very much LM.

Congrats on your hardwork though, you look great.

^^agree^^

19danno77

I wanted to start this thread because of the "" Muscle Does Not Weigh More Than Fat" thread. Reading thru it I read numerous posts that claimed that you cannot gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. Yes you can!! Please do not let these misguided comments stop you from implementing some type of lifting program while you are on your journey for a new body!! Weight training while dieting is very important because if you dont about 22% of your total weight loss will be Lean Muscle! Most people who do not lift while dieting are not happy with their body even after they reached or even surpassed their goals.

Hey! Maybe you can help me figure something out... math problem. 9 weeks ago I weight 304 and I was 48.5% body fat. Today I weighed 280.5 and I'm 40.8% body fat. I tried to ways to figure out how much fat I lost and how much muscle I gained and I don't know which is right. First I tried averaging 304 and 280.5 (292.25) and then taking 7.7% of that, which is 22.5 pounds of fat lost. Then I tried taking 48.5% of 304 (147.44) and 40.8% of 280.5 (114.44) and subtracting those two numbers, which is 33 pounds of fat lost.

The first one would be pretty close to maintaining muscle and just losing fat. But the second one would mean I had gained almost 10 pounds of muscle and lost 33 pounds of fat. Based on the fact that my clothes are fitting me more like when I weighed in the low 270s a couple of years ago when I wasn't working out much, and based on the fact that my muscles are really getting big, I'm thinking the 33 pounds of fat lost is more accurate. But I'm no good at math.

If the second one is true, you can totally gain muscle on a calorie deficit. I just did.

Anyone know how to figure this out?

Shannon

Holy crap, Shannon, congrats!!!!!!

I like math so here goes: at 304 lbs you carried 147 lbs of fat leaving lean (skeleton, water, muscle, connective tissue, circulation, blood, brains, etc.) of 157 by subtraction. When you dropped to 280.5 and pushed fat down to 40.8% your fat mass went down to 114 for a loss of 33 lbs you are correct. The key here is that you GAINED lean mass of 9 lbs going from 157 to 166!!! In losing 33 lbs of fat, away went some cirulatory system that was contained therein...which counts as lean body mass...for every 4 lbs lost in my experience, usually fat content of that weight is about 75%...in other words if you lose 4 lbs in a calorie consumption deficit your body burned 3 lbs of fat and catabolized (consumed/disposed) of 1 lb of water and blood vessels that serviced/accessed that fat tissue. That's why as you lean out you may start seeing your lean mass creep slowly down, in parallel with fat reduction. This assumption also means that you actually built in excess of 9 lbs of muscle...if fat loss is 3X lean loss during fat burn means along with the 33 lbs of fat loss you also lost ~11 lbs of circulatory system/water contained in that adipose tissue...that puts your muscle gain closer to 20 lbs...absolutely amazing!!!

EbbySoo

Opinion battles are always fun, but here goes in support of the OP. You're not in true caloric deficit from a global standpoint IF you have adipose tissue storing excess bodyfat. That total comes from calories harvested from reserves and those that you put in your mouth. Your body can only access so much of that reserve in any given day because it's in a bank so to speak. That weekly amount is given to be about 2 lbs give or take depending on your biology and the level of your bodyfat...it's related to the surface area of blood vessels and the capacity of the blood to access the network of fat tissue...the less fat you have the smaller that surface area is and the slower that maximum harvest rate can be. Those calories will build muscle using your protein intake and adipose tissue cataboloized to fuel other processes and carbohydrate to fuel brain activities and other cardiovascular functions. If what you put in your mouth is too low for adipose harvesting to completely balance the body's activities than NO you may not build muscle...but that caloric level suggested by MFP is programmed to NOT go that low...that's why it warns you to eat more if you complete a diary day dramatically under your guidelines.

About muscles: if you push your body beyond its capabilities, up to a certain genetic potential (yours), it will build beyond that level in anticipation of the next attack being worse. "Beyond capabilities" is subjective and by that I mean you exercise to muscular failure and then give the muscles adequate rest...look into a book by Dr. Ellington Darden at your local library called "The New High Intensity Training." What's missing in most of our routines is number 1: sufficient sleep each night and rest between exercise sessions and number 2: proper intensity, as in TO FAILURE...as in you can't complete the last rep. The lion fights once a week or so then sleeps and gets waited on by the brood but is the strongest animal in the wild. Ever see a lion on a treadmill? Doing push-ups between fights? How about 4 sets of an exercise? We're animals too and our muscles need to be proven a point and that point is they're not big enough and you can only do that by making them fail...then a week of rest so they can come back ~5% stronger. You shouldn't be working out for strength more than 15-30 minutes a week. This is a safe way to exercise on nautilus machines when slow, 5-10 second motions are used for each rep without jerking...in fact, by doing fewer sets your joints will last longer, too.

The gender complaint is also bunk...women's body's are no thermodynamic perpetual motion machines, although I think they're craftier at survival so fat may be harder to burn for many ladies since women carry an unbalanced burden on the perpetuation of our species--not sexist here, just saying that if a population can keep one man alive, he can perpetuate a species as long as many women are also around. Men are in a way disposable...it's not a good thing to be able to trim down quickly...thinner is closer to death if the food supply disappears. Women can also use the HIT workout routine without fear of bulking up because the hormones aren't there to build lots of muscle...but the benefits are there for the skeleton and connective tissue so ladies, too, should be working the muscles periodically to failure...it hurts to work out this way, but it's a burn and it's easier to get to the gym and pour yourself on the floor once every 8 days than get there 4-5 times a week and feel worn out, defeated and intimidated by the grunting fools that spend all day there posing in the mirror. Nobody needs to eat extra protein to build muscle either...need prove? Submit your urine to a lab for amino analysis. We're excreting excess every day...probably only need 30-90 grams a day depending on your size and building goals. For what it's worth...

LMAO.