You Can Gain Muscle On A Calorie Deficit!!
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Retaining and gaining are two totoally different things. He looks like he retained muscle mass while losing fat.OP you look great. I mean it. But honestly it doesn't look like you 'gained' muscle from the pics.
He'd have to gain muscle just to look like he didn't gain any muscle. Or else you'd say, it looks like you lost some muscle mass
^^^Look - yesterday we were adding 'a's to words. Today its O. My word totally gained an O. Fact.0 -
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Lmao0 -
Yes You can build muscle on a deficit but You wont build like a body builder no. I am on a muscle building and fat loss program at my gym and we have to watch calories yes, take in protein to build and recover muscle too. I started out at 177 pounds with 120 of that being muscle which I have built over a couse of a year I am now up 2 pounds of muscle and have lost about 6% BF so yes it can be done but it won't be alot. I am female at 5"2" and was told by trainers to win this contest I have to keep or gain muscle but not lose any muscle and I have done that so far. So I see what he is saying yes you can build muscle on a low calorie diet you just have to get enough calories to burn fat but maintain/ grow muscle. If you do too much cardio and not enough of lifting and I mean heavy weights where you can build muscle yes you will lose muscle. And if you dont agree with this then oh well but I think the trainers know what they are talking about when they have done this program before with people having sucess. Let the guy have his say in this and quit giving him such a hard time cause everyone is different and some will gain and some won't it all depends on your body, what you do for workouts, and what you eat. No you won't gain muscle if you are lifting 10 pound weights and no you won't gain muscle if you cut calories too low.
That's all I have to say for now.0 -
Yes You can build muscle on a deficit but You wont build like a body builder no. I am on a muscle building and fat loss program at my gym and we have to watch calories yes, take in protein to build and recover muscle too. I started out at 177 pounds with 120 of that being muscle which I have built over a couse of a year I am now up 2 pounds of muscle and have lost about 6% BF so yes it can be done but it won't be alot. I am female at 5"2" and was told by trainers to win this contest I have to keep or gain muscle but not lose any muscle and I have done that so far. So I see what he is saying yes you can build muscle on a low calorie diet you just have to get enough calories to burn fat but maintain/ grow muscle. If you do too much cardio and not enough of lifting and I mean heavy weights where you can build muscle yes you will lose muscle. And if you dont agree with this then oh well but I think the trainers know what they are talking about when they have done this program before with people having sucess. Let the guy have his say in this and quit giving him such a hard time cause everyone is different and some will gain and some won't it all depends on your body, what you do for workouts, and what you eat. No you won't gain muscle if you are lifting 10 pound weights and no you won't gain muscle if you cut calories too low.
That's all I have to say for now.
Translation: I built 2lbs of muscle from the calories of fat stores in my body.0 -
Retaining and gaining are two totoally different things. He looks like he retained muscle mass while losing fat.OP you look great. I mean it. But honestly it doesn't look like you 'gained' muscle from the pics.
He'd have to gain muscle just to look like he didn't gain any muscle. Or else you'd say, it looks like you lost some muscle mass
^^^Look - yesterday we were adding 'a's to words. Today its O. My word totally gained an O. Fact.
If you lose fat, you lose muscle. To "retain" the same amount of mucle, one has to gain what they have lost due to the fast lost. Call it what you want but of you lost fat, you lost muscle. If you want it back you have to build that amount back again.0 -
If you lost inches in your waist, lifted thoughout your process, while on a defict and ended up weighing the same in the end, what would your conclusion be?
Not going to happen on a calorie deficit except in cases already discussed above. Period.
This guy did not put on 30 lbs of muscle and simultaneously lost 30 lbs of fat.
What???? Answer the question? My question is one thing. The OP's experience is another.0 -
bump this0
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I build a muscle palace while on calorie deficit using some meat I got at the butcher shop. Sure it went bad eventually and I smelled kinda funny, but it was new muscle! new to me anyway.
OP, ya look great. Who cares whether you built it, retained it or bought it at the Walmarts. In order to determine once and for all, unfortunately, we're going to have to kill you and autopsy your body.0 -
Yes You can build muscle on a deficit but You wont build like a body builder no. I am on a muscle building and fat loss program at my gym and we have to watch calories yes, take in protein to build and recover muscle too. I started out at 177 pounds with 120 of that being muscle which I have built over a couse of a year I am now up 2 pounds of muscle and have lost about 6% BF so yes it can be done but it won't be alot. I am female at 5"2" and was told by trainers to win this contest I have to keep or gain muscle but not lose any muscle and I have done that so far. So I see what he is saying yes you can build muscle on a low calorie diet you just have to get enough calories to burn fat but maintain/ grow muscle. If you do too much cardio and not enough of lifting and I mean heavy weights where you can build muscle yes you will lose muscle. And if you dont agree with this then oh well but I think the trainers know what they are talking about when they have done this program before with people having sucess. Let the guy have his say in this and quit giving him such a hard time cause everyone is different and some will gain and some won't it all depends on your body, what you do for workouts, and what you eat. No you won't gain muscle if you are lifting 10 pound weights and no you won't gain muscle if you cut calories too low.
That's all I have to say for now.
Translation: I built 2lbs of muscle from the calories of fat stores in my body.
lol you just called her obese0 -
Oh dear god.0
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If you lost inches in your waist, lifted thoughout your process, while on a defict and ended up weighing the same in the end, what would your conclusion be?
Not going to happen on a calorie deficit except in cases already discussed above. Period.
This guy did not put on 30 lbs of muscle and simultaneously lost 30 lbs of fat.
I have absolutely no idea what I am talking about but . . .isn't the body made up more than fat and muscle? Don't you also decrease the other things that make up LBM when you lose weight? Water would be one that comes to mind, wouldn't one carry around less water in a smaller body?0 -
I am lifting weights and losing weight (calorie deficit). The result? I am not only losing fat, but gaining muscle. How do I know this? Because my biceps, triceps and other muscles now stick out! I am a woman, age 46 and very happy to point out that although I am still not at my goal, I have muscles and I don't look manly!0
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I think there is a general conflation here of a few different factors. I'm not a 'muscle' scientist, but a some quick reading leads me to think this is generally what's going on here.
I see a couple of people suggesting you may be able to 'tone' and 'strengthen' existing muscle, but not add new muscle while eating a calorie deficit. There are some tricky semantics and tricky biology involved here. Muscle gets bigger in two ways: hypertrophy, which is an increase in size and mass without the addition of new muscle fibers, and hyperplasia, which is an increase in size via addition of new fibers. It is possible that hypertrophy may not result in increased strength, as the additional bulk comes from tissue types not mediating contractions (scar tissue, etc).
This type of tissue can be added readily as a wound-healing process. Muscle soreness from inflammation drives cell swelling and inflammatory mediators to collect in the tissues. As the wounds heal, some scar-tissue like elements may be added, increasing bulk. Wound healing most certainly occurs when in caloric deficit, this there is no reason to suspect that this type of muscle growth can not also occur.
Hyperplasia is most commonly induced by sustained and/or intense loading of the muscles - again, microtears are healed, but also complex cell-signaling cascades are initiated that result in the division and multiplication of new muscle fibres. This is a eneregetically-expensive anabolic process, thus when calories are tight it's less likely to occur, but it's not impossible.
- In short, if you eat a caloric deficit you can certainly increase muscle bulk via hypertrophy. As compared with eating an excess, a smaller portion of the overall growth may come from the separate process of hyperplasia, but it may still occur. Just to a lesser extreme.
So in even shorter - yes, you can 'add muscle' on a caloric deficit.
And let me again iterate that this is based on a general knowledge of human physiology, but I am not, nor do I claim to be, an expert on muscles.0 -
OP,
There are 4 ways to gain new muscle tissue.
1. Eating a calorie surplus.
2. Being obese where you can use some of your fat stores as CALORIES to build SOME new tissue but VERY minimal gains.
3. Newbie lifting gains, but again this is very minimal gains.
4. Steroids
You probably turned a little of your fat stores instead some muscle tissue, but alot of what you are seeing in your pics is muscle that you already had.
You cannot gain new muscle tissue beyond that. I can guarantee you that you won't make NEW gains unless you eat a calorie surplus. Your body does not create NEW TISSUE without providing energy above what you burn. It's biologically impossible, unless of course you have found a way to be supernatural?
So for the majority of users on MFP trying to lose weight, the easier way to say this then to have 4 exceptions, is to just say.
If you are already trim and fit and lifting - it'll be about impossible to add muscle in a calorie deficit.
All others may apply to doing so.
Read the studies if you can't think out what is happening in the body.0 -
I think there is a general conflation here of a few different factors. I'm not a 'muscle' scientist, but a some quick reading leads me to think this is generally what's going on here.
I see a couple of people suggesting you may be able to 'tone' and 'strengthen' existing muscle, but not add new muscle while eating a calorie deficit. There are some tricky semantics and tricky biology involved here. Muscle gets bigger in two ways: hypertrophy, which is an increase in size and mass without the addition of new muscle fibers, and hyperplasia, which is an increase in size via addition of new fibers. It is possible that hypertrophy may not result in increased strength, as the additional bulk comes from tissue types not mediating contractions (scar tissue, etc).
This type of tissue can be added readily as a wound-healing process. Muscle soreness from inflammation drives cell swelling and inflammatory mediators to collect in the tissues. As the wounds heal, some scar-tissue like elements may be added, increasing bulk. Wound healing most certainly occurs when in caloric deficit, this there is no reason to suspect that this type of muscle growth can not also occur.
Hyperplasia is most commonly induced by sustained and/or intense loading of the muscles - again, microtears are healed, but also complex cell-signaling cascades are initiated that result in the division and multiplication of new muscle fibres. This is a eneregetically-expensive anabolic process, thus when calories are tight it's less likely to occur, but it's not impossible.
- In short, if you eat a caloric deficit you can certainly increase muscle bulk via hypertrophy. As compared with eating an excess, a smaller portion of the overall growth may come from the separate process of hyperplasia, but it may still occur. Just to a lesser extreme.
So in even shorter - yes, you can 'add muscle' on a caloric deficit.
And let me again iterate that this is based on a general knowledge of human physiology, but I am not, nor do I claim to be, an expert on muscles.
I love it when I see you pop up in the forums.0 -
my afternoon entertainment.0
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Yes you can!! I have had this stoush many times with some of the "fitness professionals" on here ......
I started off as a very unfit very obese individual - have lost 100 + lbs over 18 months - and worked my buttt off in the gym - and now that I am at about 22 % bodyfat I can actually see real proof of the muscles that I have developed over the past 18 months (all while on a calorie deficit of about 1000 calories a day - as measured with my Bodymedia)......
I am not going to win bodybuilding competitions - but the muscles are there my friend make no mistake!!
I fell into the "exceptions" category - but so does a heap of other people starting out here - it drives me crazy when the "professionals" discourage these people from lifting through their misinformation - grrr...
Very obese
First time training
I lift heavy (and seriously upping weights) - Since the beginning of the year I have increased most weights between 25% and 30%
I make sure I eat enough good quality lean protein (to feed my muscles) but more importantly to satiate my hunger....0 -
I think there is a general conflation here of a few different factors. I'm not a 'muscle' scientist, but a some quick reading leads me to think this is generally what's going on here.
I see a couple of people suggesting you may be able to 'tone' and 'strengthen' existing muscle, but not add new muscle while eating a calorie deficit. There are some tricky semantics and tricky biology involved here. Muscle gets bigger in two ways: hypertrophy, which is an increase in size and mass without the addition of new muscle fibers, and hyperplasia, which is an increase in size via addition of new fibers. It is possible that hypertrophy may not result in increased strength, as the additional bulk comes from tissue types not mediating contractions (scar tissue, etc).
This type of tissue can be added readily as a wound-healing process. Muscle soreness from inflammation drives cell swelling and inflammatory mediators to collect in the tissues. As the wounds heal, some scar-tissue like elements may be added, increasing bulk. Wound healing most certainly occurs when in caloric deficit, this there is no reason to suspect that this type of muscle growth can not also occur.
Hyperplasia is most commonly induced by sustained and/or intense loading of the muscles - again, microtears are healed, but also complex cell-signaling cascades are initiated that result in the division and multiplication of new muscle fibres. This is a eneregetically-expensive anabolic process, thus when calories are tight it's less likely to occur, but it's not impossible.
- In short, if you eat a caloric deficit you can certainly increase muscle bulk via hypertrophy. As compared with eating an excess, a smaller portion of the overall growth may come from the separate process of hyperplasia, but it may still occur. Just to a lesser extreme.
So in even shorter - yes, you can 'add muscle' on a caloric deficit.
And let me again iterate that this is based on a general knowledge of human physiology, but I am not, nor do I claim to be, an expert on muscles.
Nodding, yes my new Queen. I hear and obey. I don't understand, but I will follow.0 -
I wanted to start this thread because of the "" Muscle Does Not Weigh More Than Fat" thread. Reading thru it I read numerous posts that claimed that you cannot gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. Yes you can!! Please do not let these misguided comments stop you from implementing some type of lifting program while you are on your journey for a new body!! Weight training while dieting is very important because if you dont about 22% of your total weight loss will be Lean Muscle! Most people who do not lift while dieting are not happy with their body even after they reached or even surpassed their goals.
is def. true. now what about for someone like me? im 5'2 weigh 140. ive got a bigger upper body on top(broad shoulders) and my rib cage is not a small frame. so about a med. frame and I have a smaller lower body. I do lift weights yes. BUT should I do less weight MORE reps or heavier weights?? this confuses me as: I bulk up pretty quickly on my top half. and i certainly dont want to look bulkier or like a body build type chic. I want my lower body bigger if I can make it bigger for sure tho
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www.randomwebsite.com0
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If you lost inches in your waist, lifted thoughout your process, while on a defict and ended up weighing the same in the end, what would your conclusion be?
Yay!!!
Oh...you mean like how is that possible? I would probably assume it had something to do with water retention or any of the other host of things my body does without me telling it to.
In day to day life, getting accurate BF measurements is pretty difficult. I'm hesitant to take folks personal success stories (as impressive as they may be) as evidence debunking the studies I've read. Additionally there are so many things at play (water retention and digestion to name a few...I just took an epic dump, does that mean I gained muscle?)
Generally speaking, I think that the most effective gains in LBM you'll see will only come when eating at a surplus. Gains achieved at a deficit will be minimal (VERY minimal in comparison to what you could gain if eating at a surplus) and will likely only come in very specific scenarios (newbie gains, starting from a very high BF%, or starting up lifting after a long period off). As your BF% lowers, the ability to increase muscle mass on a deficit (even with small gains) becomes substantially more difficult, to the point of impossibility, as well.
When you hear a story of someone gaining 30 lbs of muscle while on a 2lb/week deficit you can't help but be skeptical. When the default answer is 'you gained muscle' when someone says 'my clothes fit a bit better but I'm the same weight!!!1!1' and that person isn't doing resistance training or getting enough protein in their diet, it's also important to level expectations.
1 Cycling cutting to maximize fat loss at the expense of some muscle loss.
2 Cycling bulking to maximize muscle gain at the expense of some fat gain.
3 Maintaining a smart lifting program through bulks and cuts to maximize muscle gains/retention respectively.
In order to most efficiently maximize LBM and minimize BF, that's really the only way to go. Sure you can do it some other way, but chances are EXTREMELY high you'll find yourself frustrated before very long, and it's a virtual guarantee that you would have had better success doing it this way.
"You can drive a car with your feet if you want to; it don't mean its a good f***ing idea!" ~Chris Rock0 -
Some light reading for later..0
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wow really no I am not skinny but I am also not fat as one of the comments stated. I am 122 pounds of lean muscle and 45 pounds of fat and still building and losing. you guys that have nasty comments must have nothing better to do with your time but cut people down.0
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Lowering body fat to reveal muscle =/= building new muscle. Most overweight and obese people actually have a lot of muscle mass, as it's needed to carry around excess weight. So, you lose weight and reveal that muscle, doesn't make it new. Just means you trained your CNS to actually use it properly.
See what I said above. You didn't build muscle, it was already there. Most strength gains actually come from training your central nervous system to use the muscle efficiently, not from raw muscle tissue.Yes you can!! I have had this stoush many times with some of the "fitness professionals" on here ......
I started off as a very unfit very obese individual - have lost 100 + lbs over 18 months - and worked my buttt off in the gym - and now that I am at about 22 % bodyfat I can actually see real proof of the muscles that I have developed over the past 18 months (all while on a calorie deficit of about 1000 calories a day - as measured with my Bodymedia)......
I am not going to win bodybuilding competitions - but the muscles are there my friend make no mistake!!
I fell into the "exceptions" category - but so does a heap of other people starting out here - it drives me crazy when the "professionals" discourage these people from lifting through their misinformation - grrr...
Very obese
First time training
I lift heavy (and seriously upping weights) - Since the beginning of the year I have increased most weights between 25% and 30%
I make sure I eat enough good quality lean protein (to feed my muscles) but more importantly to satiate my hunger....
And nobody is discouraging people from lifting by saying you don't build new tissue, lifting is encouraging to maintain muscle. People get discouraged because they believe that they should build tons of muscle by lifting weights, and get discouraged when it doesn't happen.
Actually, water weight stays pretty consistent, the more body fat you have, the lower the percentage of your weight from water. Water is mostly stored in muscle tissue, not fat.If you lost inches in your waist, lifted thoughout your process, while on a defict and ended up weighing the same in the end, what would your conclusion be?
Not going to happen on a calorie deficit except in cases already discussed above. Period.
This guy did not put on 30 lbs of muscle and simultaneously lost 30 lbs of fat.
I have absolutely no idea what I am talking about but . . .isn't the body made up more than fat and muscle? Don't you also decrease the other things that make up LBM when you lose weight? Water would be one that comes to mind, wouldn't one carry around less water in a smaller body?0 -
Actually, water weight stays pretty consistent, the more body fat you have, the lower the percentage of your weight from water. Water is mostly stored in muscle tissue, not fat.
About 3:1 ratio...for every 4 lbs of weight loss under ideal caloric restriction conditions, 3 are fat and 1 is associated water and circulatory system located in that tissue...and remember that the volume of a pound of fat tissue is bigger than a pound of water...so how does this thread end? Can we add a poll and vote to kill it?0 -
You don't lose any muscle?0
This discussion has been closed.
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