Let's talk about...the Paleo Diet

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  • penrbrown
    penrbrown Posts: 2,685 Member
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    You must not be human then. Human beings are very visual and yes, someone who is "ripped" will have more weight in a conversation on anything health, unlike say a cow avatar.


    So here you are asserting that:

    a) I must not be 'human' because I don't find 6-packs aesthetically pleasing; and
    b) An argument can be dismissed the person making it has a cartoon avatar and not their photo

    You must be an absolute blast at dinner parties.....I'd certainly hire you for entertainment at one.

    Just so you don't feel all alone. I too do not find hyper muscles and super defined 8-packs (6-packs aren't terrible but 8-packs? *shudder*) attractive. It just doesn't do anything for me. I prefer a body that's a bit softer.

    For me, those hard bodies just don't look very comfortable to snuggle up to. Simple as that. :)

    I don't believe those who are fit have more 'weight' in weight loss and/or fitness discussions. The reasons they are fit can be varied. They may know jack all about fitness, despite their physique. In fact, in my experience, those who have tried every diet out there and still haven't lost weight usually have way more practical knowledge then someone who is fit.

    Just because we HAVE the knowledge doesn't mean we've put it to use!
  • penrbrown
    penrbrown Posts: 2,685 Member
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    You know, wasn't the lifespan of a caveman something ridiculously low like 30 years old?

    I'm not sure I want to follow that diet...

    You have to be kidding. People died from infected teeth and being mauled by wild animals back then. To directly tie lifespan to diet is plain stupid.

    Not necessarily. While some deaths were caused by infected teeth, animal maulings and other such tragedies, some deaths were probably caused by improper diet as well.

    I'm not convinced a diet that was good for undeveloped man is good for us now thousands and thousands of years later. If we believe in evolution then we believe the human body has been evolving and that includes the digestive system. What was good for man then isn't necessarily good for modern human bodies now.
  • fteale
    fteale Posts: 5,310 Member
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    Remember this isn't to unnecessarily bash or praise the Paleo diet but to have an objective discussion about it

    But, why pick the Paleolithic era? If the reason is to lose weight and avoid the diseases of civilization, why not emulate a Roman peasant? They sure weren't running around with diabetes, AND they got to eat a lot of bread.

    How about a serf in the Middle Ages? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7148534.stm

    Perhaps a modern, naan eating Afghan? http://m.npr.org/news/Health/132745785

    People say, "well, we didn't evolve to eat [wheat/dairy/whatever]." It doesn't seem like an adequate argument. Paleolithic era people hadn't evolved at that point to read, either, and yet no one is giving that up.

    A lot of the antinutrients in grains that people are so alarmed about are actually antioxidants that have beneficial effects, including possible cancer prevention. One example is phytic acid. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/1097-0142(19850815)56:4<717::AID-CNCR2820560402>3.0.CO;2-4/abstract

    I'm not convinced at all that avoiding legumes and grains is unhealthful at all.

    THIS! I have asked this before and got no sensible reply at all. WHY the Paleolithic specifically? Why not the Neolithic? Or the Mesolithic? Why not base our diet on Australopithecines?
  • fteale
    fteale Posts: 5,310 Member
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    You must not be human then. Human beings are very visual and yes, someone who is "ripped" will have more weight in a conversation on anything health, unlike say a cow avatar.


    So here you are asserting that:

    a) I must not be 'human' because I don't find 6-packs aesthetically pleasing; and
    b) An argument can be dismissed the person making it has a cartoon avatar and not their photo

    You must be an absolute blast at dinner parties.....I'd certainly hire you for entertainment at one.

    Just so you don't feel all alone. I too do not find hyper muscles and super defined 8-packs (6-packs aren't terrible but 8-packs? *shudder*) attractive. It just doesn't do anything for me. I prefer a body that's a bit softer.

    For me, those hard bodies just don't look very comfortable to snuggle up to. Simple as that. :)

    I don't believe those who are fit have more 'weight' in weight loss and/or fitness discussions. The reasons they are fit can be varied. They may know jack all about fitness, despite their physique. In fact, in my experience, those who have tried every diet out there and still haven't lost weight usually have way more practical knowledge then someone who is fit.

    Just because we HAVE the knowledge doesn't mean we've put it to use!


    I am another with no interest in ripped men. I will take advice from someone who is healthy and can run 26 miles more than someone who has big muscles. Big muscles mean nothing except you spend too much time in the gym, IMO. They aren't natural. If they were people wouldn't need to lift lumps of metal to get them.
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
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    You know, wasn't the lifespan of a caveman something ridiculously low like 30 years old?

    I'm not sure I want to follow that diet...

    You have to be kidding. People died from infected teeth and being mauled by wild animals back then. To directly tie lifespan to diet is plain stupid.

    Not necessarily. While some deaths were caused by infected teeth, animal maulings and other such tragedies, some deaths were probably caused by improper diet as well.

    I'm not convinced a diet that was good for undeveloped man is good for us now thousands and thousands of years later. If we believe in evolution then we believe the human body has been evolving and that includes the digestive system. What was good for man then isn't necessarily good for modern human bodies now.

    So what diet is good for modern humans? Have we discovered the optimal diet for humans yet? I would say no based on rising obesity rates across the world.
  • KemaVA
    KemaVA Posts: 81 Member
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    I'm a new fan of the Paleo diet. I dont know a lot about the 'science' for and against it... I just know I feel better. I dont think there will be one rigid way of eating that will work for everyone.

    I have tried many different ways to eat. I became a pescatarian years ago because I felt meat made me feel heavy. Last year I tried juicing and then just 'eating raw'. It was hard to keep at that so when I heard of the Paleo diet I thought to give it a try. I was already at a place where I was realizing that my body was not digesting carbs properly. I am also lactose intelorant. There may be others like me that just realize that this way of eating is what THEIR body wants.
  • fteale
    fteale Posts: 5,310 Member
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    Just leaving this here
    Post hoc analysis showed that at week 52 the scores on the POMS subscales of anger-hostility (P = .006), confusion-bewilderment (P = .02), and depression-dejection (P = .05) and the TMDS score (P = .001) were significantly lower in the LF group than in the LC group

    http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/169/20/1873#IOI90085F2

    Love it.
  • penrbrown
    penrbrown Posts: 2,685 Member
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    You know, wasn't the lifespan of a caveman something ridiculously low like 30 years old?

    I'm not sure I want to follow that diet...

    You have to be kidding. People died from infected teeth and being mauled by wild animals back then. To directly tie lifespan to diet is plain stupid.

    Not necessarily. While some deaths were caused by infected teeth, animal maulings and other such tragedies, some deaths were probably caused by improper diet as well.

    I'm not convinced a diet that was good for undeveloped man is good for us now thousands and thousands of years later. If we believe in evolution then we believe the human body has been evolving and that includes the digestive system. What was good for man then isn't necessarily good for modern human bodies now.

    So what diet is good for modern humans? Have we discovered the optimal diet for humans yet? I would say no based on rising obesity rates across the world.

    I'm not convinced there are rising obesity rates across the world. Do you have some studies to back that up? (Sorry, I haven't read ALL the pages of this thread. Just the first few and the last few so if there have been studies posted already I missed them).

    What is the optimal diet for modern man? There's a big question and honestly I think it depends on the person. As in, each individual human needs to find the diet that is going to work best for their body. What works best for one isn't going to work best for another. There's no such thing as a solution that will work for every individual. We are far too unique for that. :)

    That said, I think we can all agree a diet of merely processed foods is not a good diet.
  • shanahan_09
    shanahan_09 Posts: 238 Member
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    yawn

    Ditto!
  • callmeBAM
    callmeBAM Posts: 450 Member
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    1. Our digestive processes didn’t evolve to maximize the effectiveness of grain consumption. Just because you can tolerate grains to a certain degree, as just about all of us can, doesn’t mean your body was designed for them or that they’re truly healthy for you.

    2. I bet I could find some people with rockin bodies that drink good amounts of vodka, rum, whatever on a regular basis. To some of you, that is empirical evidence that drinking isn't bad for you! Just look at their bodies! I'm sure I don't have to go through the long list of harmful side effects from prolonged and regular alcohol consumption.
  • BullDozier
    BullDozier Posts: 237 Member
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    You know, wasn't the lifespan of a caveman something ridiculously low like 30 years old?

    I'm not sure I want to follow that diet...

    You have to be kidding. People died from infected teeth and being mauled by wild animals back then. To directly tie lifespan to diet is plain stupid.

    Not necessarily. While some deaths were caused by infected teeth, animal maulings and other such tragedies, some deaths were probably caused by improper diet as well.

    I'm not convinced a diet that was good for undeveloped man is good for us now thousands and thousands of years later. If we believe in evolution then we believe the human body has been evolving and that includes the digestive system. What was good for man then isn't necessarily good for modern human bodies now.
    Life span in the paleolithic era was actually higher than the lifespan at the turn of the 20th century. There's a lot more that goes into lifespan data than just diet. Actually, I'd probably guess that diet is a historically insignificant factor in lifespan data, when comparing time frames.
  • penrbrown
    penrbrown Posts: 2,685 Member
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    1. Our digestive processes didn’t evolve to maximize the effectiveness of grain consumption. Just because you can tolerate grains to a certain degree, as just about all of us can, doesn’t mean your body was designed for them or that they’re truly healthy for you.

    2. I bet I could find some people with rockin bodies that drink good amounts of vodka, rum, whatever on a regular basis. To some of you, that is empirical evidence that drinking isn't bad for you! Just look at their bodies! I'm sure I don't have to go through the long list of harmful side effects from prolonged and regular alcohol consumption.

    Good points. :) I, personally, cannot follow any diet that pretty much anyone follows. Due to allergies I can't have dairy, gluten, nuts (tree and peanuts) or chocolate. I've had to figure out eating habits that suit my body and my particular needs. There is no 'optimal' diet out there that fits my needs. It's not so hard to figure out: this makes me feel good, this makes me feel bad.. so I'm going to eat this and not that.

    The trick is saying: I'm not going to eat until I'm stuffed... I'm not going to eat just because I'm sad... I'm not going to... etc.

    Btw, point 2 made me chuckle.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    1. Our digestive processes didn’t evolve to maximize the effectiveness of grain consumption. Just because you can tolerate grains to a certain degree, as just about all of us can, doesn’t mean your body was designed for them or that they’re truly healthy for you.

    And your evidence for that is?
    2. I bet I could find some people with rockin bodies that drink good amounts of vodka, rum, whatever on a regular basis. To some of you, that is empirical evidence that drinking isn't bad for you! Just look at their bodies! I'm sure I don't have to go through the long list of harmful side effects from prolonged and regular alcohol consumption.

    Yeah, lot's of studies showing how terrible regular consumption of red wine is and last I checked red wine was alcohol
  • hoya31
    hoya31 Posts: 5
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    Anyone that is REALLY interested in reading why the paleo diet is infinitely better for you than not, read this book:

    http://www.amazon.com/Primal-Body-Mind-Beyond-Health/dp/1594774137/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331661239&sr=8-1

    It really, really will make you think twice (or 100x again) why not to eat grains and legumes. She mentions a lot of studies supporting the diet and if you go to pubmed.com and look up "paleo diet" you will find endless scientific articles positively supporting the paleo diet. Your system will start to work as it is used to with the nutrients it will finally be able to get! I suggest it 100%. You'll ever wonder why you didnt...

    Is it easy? Hell no. Is it worth it, definitely yes.
  • LorinaLynn
    LorinaLynn Posts: 13,247 Member
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    I bet I could find some people with rockin bodies that drink good amounts of vodka, rum, whatever on a regular basis.

    <-- Yep! Right here! :drinker:

    Of course, "good amount" and "regular basis" equals about once a week, which is about the same as my pizza consumption. Since my weekly pizza is going to make me die of cancer in two years, I might as well destroy my liver before then with my moderate consumption of alcohol.
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
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    f you go to pubmed.com and look up "paleo diet" you will find endless scientific articles positively supporting the paleo diet.

    I would encourage you to post some of those studies. The purpose of this thread, originally, was to discuss the scientific merit of the diet. If you have any particular studies can you share them?
  • fteale
    fteale Posts: 5,310 Member
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    Anyone that is REALLY interested in reading why the paleo diet is infinitely better for you than not, read this book:

    http://www.amazon.com/Primal-Body-Mind-Beyond-Health/dp/1594774137/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331661239&sr=8-1

    It really, really will make you think twice (or 100x again) why not to eat grains and legumes. She mentions a lot of studies supporting the diet and if you go to pubmed.com and look up "paleo diet" you will find endless scientific articles positively supporting the paleo diet. Your system will start to work as it is used to with the nutrients it will finally be able to get! I suggest it 100%. You'll ever wonder why you didnt...

    Is it easy? Hell no. Is it worth it, definitely yes.

    That video on Amazon advertising the book just made me fall off the sofa laughing. Thanks, you just made my day.
  • scubagoil
    scubagoil Posts: 103 Member
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    I haven't seen any threads attacking vegetarians or vegans... Yet they eliminate what many people consider important.... meat and other animal products.

    Years ago they were put down for their way of eating, but now, most people see this as an acceptable choice.

    I have to eliminate almost all grains because I am allergic, but if someone hasn't been diagnosed, that doesn't mean they won't feel better eliminating grains too. I can sustain this way of eating because my body has never felt better.

    Before I was diagnosed, I counted calories and lost weight, BUT I couldn't sustain 1200 calories a day... I was always hungry and was working out 1.5 to 2 hours a day so I could earn enough calories to satisfy my hunger! When I went back to school, I no longer had the time to do this and gained all the weight back plus 10.

    If people feel good eating this way, why does it provoke such a negative reaction from people we've never even met? Is it in some way offensive? Seriously wondering what the big deal is... if this way of eating doesn't sound good to you, then stick with what ever works for you.

    And in response to those saying if we would eat grains, we wouldn't be so cranky... no one is going to be happy about having their choices singled out and ridiculed.
  • fteale
    fteale Posts: 5,310 Member
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    I haven't seen any threads attacking vegetarians or vegans... Yet they eliminate what many people consider important.... meat and other animal products.

    Years ago they were put down for their way of eating, but now, most people see this as an acceptable choice.

    I have to eliminate almost all grains because I am allergic, but if someone hasn't been diagnosed, that doesn't mean they won't feel better eliminating grains too. I can sustain this way of eating because my body has never felt better.

    Before I was diagnosed, I counted calories and lost weight, BUT I couldn't sustain 1200 calories a day... I was always hungry and was working out 1.5 to 2 hours a day so I could earn enough calories to satisfy my hunger! When I went back to school, I no longer had the time to do this and gained all the weight back plus 10.

    If people feel good eating this way, why does it provoke such a negative reaction from people we've never even met? Is it in some way offensive? Seriously wondering what the big deal is... if this way of eating doesn't sound good to you, then stick with what ever works for you.

    And in response to those saying if we would eat grains, we wouldn't be so cranky... no one is going to be happy about having their choices singled out and ridiculed.


    You can't have been looking very hard! About once a week there is a 12 page thread laying into us vegetarians. Usually with morons posting pictures of raw meat they think look delicious and I think look like a scene from a horror film.
  • LorinaLynn
    LorinaLynn Posts: 13,247 Member
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    I'm not convinced there are rising obesity rates across the world. Do you have some studies to back that up? (Sorry, I haven't read ALL the pages of this thread. Just the first few and the last few so if there have been studies posted already I missed them).

    Exactly. A study of art history will show that people have had a tendency towards chunkiness at least since the invention of the paintbrush. The biggest difference seems to be that back then, only the wealthy and privileged got fat. Working folks probably didn't, but working folks didn't get immortalized in paintings and sculptures, either.

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